word of wisdom

[Winetalk.com]

mistake.

He learned from the best (Kevin) how to deal with "confucies"


...and when he drops the bomb on your stupid head,
I want you think about and look at yourself in the mirror.
Make a pic of this moment for Oprano.

Gonzo, good job, mano!
;-)

[Mike AI]

If I lived in a glass house I would not be pissing Gonzo off.

Hooper send him a few dozen KrispyKreme donuts and maybe he will call the dawgs off!!

[Hooper]

some fat hairy nut convinced he runs a cartel is worrying me?

our business is crumbling as we speak. it's terrible.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 28 2004, 11:18 PM
some fat hairy nut convinced he runs a cartel is worrying me?

our business is crumbling as we speak. it's terrible.


Why would you be worried?

[Hooper]

I thought the sarcasm was evident.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 28 2004, 11:28 PM
I thought the sarcasm was evident.
Me too.

<_<

[Hooper]

I'm sure oprano radio will be large and in charge like never before over this.

*edit. i'm going to watch big fish. hope it's as good as the reviews say. dont quite understand where all the recent hostility from the oprano crew came from.. you know where to find me :P



Last edited by Hooper at Apr 28 2004, 11:39 PM

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 28 2004, 11:37 PM
I'm sure oprano radio will be large and in charge like never before over this.

*edit. i'm going to watch big fish. hope it's as good as the reviews say. dont quite understand where all the recent hostility from the oprano crew came from.. you know where to find me :P
Hostility?

Not from me.

I am a big fan of yours Hoop. I have told you this face to face.

The spyware stuff is a big concern for me. It effect my business. Not only my adult business, but also my non-adult ones. There is a lot of issues that many people overlook. My posistions on these issues have always been clear.

[cj]

Hooper, the hostility directed towards you from webmasters who have had your stupid shit installed on their machines is just a small portion of the hostility your surfers, the ftc and a number of other people who you can't continue to laugh off are feeling towards you.

Imagine, if you piss of people this much who DO know how to remove your shit from their machines, the surfers must really LOVE your product!! Because aren't you providing them with a helpful *service* by redirecting their searches to your sites?!

Oh and Oprano Radio won't be talking about you *much* - we will simply be using you as an example of 1 of the companies that pushes self installing products - after all, you are the only one who brags about it! And being that you'd prefer to be on DOKK'S show, I suggest you go do just that - we've got enough 'guests' who have something to say on the subject ...

... & Gonzo & I are still actually in business :okthumb:

Good luck on Dokk's show!!

[Hooper]

Originally posted by cj@Apr 28 2004, 11:54 PM
Hooper, the hostility directed towards you from webmasters who have had your stupid shit installed on their machines is just a small portion of the hostility your surfers, the ftc and a number of other people who you can't continue to laugh off are feeling towards you.

Imagine, if you piss of people this much who DO know how to remove your shit from their machines, the surfers must really LOVE your product!! Because aren't you providing them with a helpful *service* by redirecting their searches to your sites?!

Oh and Oprano Radio won't be talking about you *much* - we will simply be using you as an example of 1 of the companies that pushes self installing products - after all, you are the only one who brags about it! And being that you'd prefer to be on DOKK'S show, I suggest you go do just that - we've got enough 'guests' who have something to say on the subject ...

... & Gonzo & I are still actually in business :okthumb:

Good luck on Dokk's show!!
well now i missed the start of big fish and i'm gonna have to wait til another day.

i would suggest that oprano radio have it's ducks in order when it decides:

1 - what to call our products (e.g. "spyware")
2 - what to call us an example of (e.g. "scumbags")
3 - what you claim our products do (e.g. "redirects searches")

unfortunately cj, you, your fuzzy nut boyfriend, and whatever comical roster you have planned are are part of the growing crowd of novice computer users who cant tell a feature laden toolbar from an ad delivery mechanism or a damaging virus. If you can, you must be doing everything you can to mask your intelligence.

[cj]

Hoops, you are threatening to sue me if I speak the truth?! wow, you must be really scared of what we are going to say!!

Your lawyers have more important things to worry about sweet cheeks, I'd be saving their time for defending your 'feature laden toolbar' in court :okthumb:

I am stunned - I thought you were smarter than this ... but no, you are just another greedy clown who blames the dodgy elements of your product on 'idiot surfers'.

You seriously can't be calling me a computer idiot ... because if I am one, what category do my parents (and all of the rest of your customers) fall into? my parents have been using a computer for 2 years, don't want the 'feature laden toolbar' on their machines, and yet IT ENDED UP THERE. Its THEIR computer, not yours ... if they want a toolbar (why would they!??!?!), i'd find them one that is much better than the crap you offer.

Go on hooper ... insult my parents too ... they are only your potential customer base after all ... WHAT THE FUCK WOULD THEY KNOW HUH?

[Hooper]

i didnt threaten to sue anybody... i suggested you keep your facts straight rather than making up things that sound good because they are popular buzz words.

let somebody else ride the high horse cj. we all know where you've been.

[cj]

no you don't hooper, you just think you do :rolleyes:

but by all means ... use what you think you know to try to avoid the truth about your own business ... I've been slammed by people whose skidmarks are more important to me than you - and i'm still here.

we all have periods in our life we aren't proud of, maybe you'll look back at this as one of yours ... or maybe you'll continue down the same road and end up a 30 year old divorcee whose wife won't let you see your children with debts piled up around your ears and a black mark against your name with the ftc ............. all because you got greedy.

and like you said yourself ... i'd know :awinky:

[Hell Puppy]

Hooper,

Please dont take this as an attack because that is not the spirit in which I intend this. But I have a couple of serious questions for you...

1) What exactly does the toolbar product do?

And dont insult our intelligence here please. I'm not talking about the feature set the users see. It's a free product, so what's in it for you?

2) Where's the line at for you personally?

Seriously, I'm curious. I know easy money is like a drug. Everyone in this industry has compromised western society's typical view of principles by selling porn. Why do we do it? It's an easy way to make money.

The "line" is different from almost all of us though. I know several people in this industry who do not even deal with hardcore. For others they draw the line at spam. The majority wont touch kiddy porn, but I wonder how that would change if it were legal and selling like crazy.

Where's the line at for you? Now I'm not talking about what's legal, or what you can get away with. Let's assume there were no boundaries other than your own sense of right and wrong. How far would you go? How much money is enough? Lets say you could automatically drop a piece of code on a surfer's computer and have them click OK to some T&C's you know they'd never read. Upon clicking "OK" you could draw $5 a day off his credit card til he figured out how to jump thru your hoops to make it stop, would you do it?

[Vick]

From the no spin zone

My guess from the outside looking in is that the porn business isn't making the $ it did and things are being done to supplement that income (or perhaps to increase overall earnings)

So a "Spyware"/"Scumware" product is being promoted is an interesting/questionable fashion with potential to be damaging with regards to potential surfer spending or at least the surfers overall internet experience

So Hooper can you tell us exactly what this new toolbar does and how it is installed?

Is it an automatic download, installed in a forced/no choice fashion?

If so why did you choose this approach and did you know they may be a backlash from this procedure?

Does the toolbar provide an easy way to uninstall?

How much of what is being said on GFY is true?

Are you losing any appreciable business from webmasters claiming to be removing links to the programs you are associated with?

Here's an opportunity for you to tell your side of the story Hooper

BTW Hopper, did you ever make the move to NYC?


I'll admit when I saw the I-Download program I thought to myself here's a company selling things that some of could be gotten for free, if they can get $ for it, great

[Winetalk.com]

Hooper,
have your lawyer check the law suits filed in Utah against spyware distributors. How could you miss CNBC show? It was quite educational
;_)))

[Hell Puppy]

Gator has been sued repeatedly. So far they haven't been willing to test the legality of their adware in court and have instead settled each case. And they at least provide a dialog box prior to install...

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 28 2004, 11:18 PM
some fat hairy nut convinced he runs a cartel is worrying me?

our business is crumbling as we speak. it's terrible.
A cartel?
Oh Hooper you take things way too serious.
Ive repeatedly said I am a Fat Fucking Nobody.

And I know that you gots more of an IT background than I do with 17 years in the biz. Thats why you try to lecture all of us on spam and spyware...symantics and such ya know.

So since Im a dumbassed country boy and you won't answer any questions about what this thing does [its none of your bizness] Ill leave that to them impartial IT experts.

We present facts. What people decide after they've been presented is up to them. Im sure DOKK will love have you on his rebuttal show as CJ said.

But really...Id figure you can come up with some better insults.
I shaved though my man....my nuts aint hairy. It makes it asier for me to jack off to your poster on the wall. Its ok your married I wont tell her.

Tell you what Ill put up a site and all yall have to do is enter your credit card info and you can watch for free. Dont mind that verbage way at the bottom about joining my computer club for 29.95 a month or the note where I send you the CD at an additional $10 per month.

Then you 2 can sit back and have some free entertainment on me.

Remember your the one that asked me to get my facts straight. Im taking your advice!

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 12:56 AM
i didnt threaten to sue anybody... i suggested you keep your facts straight rather than making up things that sound good because they are popular buzz words.

let somebody else ride the high horse cj. we all know where you've been.
At least she hasnt been in the Max Cash booth chasing around reps while she was drunk trying to get em some of that "easy pussy".

Let me see if I can find you a pic of my shaved nuts. I was too po to have it lasered off like you did for momma.

[cj]

Originally posted by gonzo+Apr 29 2004, 07:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Apr 29 2004, 07:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 12:56 AM
i didnt threaten to sue anybody... i suggested you keep your facts straight rather than making up things that sound good because they are popular buzz words.

let somebody else ride the high horse cj. we all know where you've been.
At least she hasnt been in the Max Cash booth chasing around reps while she was drunk trying to get em some of that "easy pussy".[/b][/quote]
how do you know :unsure: it sounds vaguely familiar <_<

[gonzo]

Originally posted by cj+Apr 29 2004, 09:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Apr 29 2004, 09:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -gonzo@Apr 29 2004, 07:44 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 12:56 AM
i didnt threaten to sue anybody... i suggested you keep your facts straight rather than making up things that sound good because they are popular buzz words.

let somebody else ride the high horse cj. we all know where you've been.
At least she hasnt been in the Max Cash booth chasing around reps while she was drunk trying to get em some of that "easy pussy".
how do you know :unsure: it sounds vaguely familiar <_<[/b][/quote]
Ask Hooper....

[Hooper]

You're too easy gonzo. nuts? wives? whats next? nanny nanny boo boo? or are you gonna go "confucy" on my ass? lol

Hell Puppy & vick, to answer some of your questions, our toolbar is designed primarily to help build the iSearch.com brand and we have millions of active & perfectly happy users. We have letters of thank you telling us how much they like our popup blocker and the results that we provide. The zoom feature is very helpful to people with bad vision (or people with good vision on bad web pages). I encourage friends and family to use it, because it is what it says it is.

The uninstall is easy and automatic. we make money off of it from the dropdown menu that says "Hot Offers" next to the zoom tool and from the searches that are made from the toolbar. We also occasionally inject an advertisement into their web browser, but it is not contextually or behaviorally targeted, which is the sacrifice we make in order to avoid being defined as "spyware" because I believe that spyware will become regulated very soon.

There are more nuances to the toolbar that I wont go into because they really aren't worth discussing, but some of the things we DON'T do include harvesting email addresses, bundling other people's software with our software, changing dns servers, redirecting searches from other sites, highlighting key words, changing link codes, taking affiliate credit away from affiliates, wrapping users media in DRM, and on and on and on. We have chosen to take a VERY high road with our toolbar.

Despite all the whining and complaining we keep hearing, we have managed to do the virtually impossible and turn worthless shit adult traffic into very profitable non-adult traffic.

Am I on a quest to become a "player" in the search and software markets? You bet. Judging from the Alexa charts that Oprano is so fond of, I'd say we're doing just fine. Vick, watching the monkeys on GFY jump around hasn't impacted our business in even the slightest, yesterday was a fantastic day for every program/product I am involved in and today is looking to be even better. Real businessmen and women care most about their bottom line.

Hell Puppy, Gator/Claria is spyware, it tracks your surfing habits and builds behavioral profiles of you and advertises to you based upon your patterns and what sites you are currently surfing. It is also adware. gator/claria has been sued repeatedly by companies who dont like gator's contextual advertising. they have yet to be sued by a user or in any way sanctioned by a governmental body. keep your eye on the ball though (read: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,...w=wn_story_top5 (http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,63008,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5) ). I dont think they or their underwriters really care what anybody *thinks*.

Serge, i was working at 4pm yesterday. if you taped it i'd be interested in seeing it, but my experience is that just like shows on "porn" or shows on "spam" the media likes to sensationalize things to appeal to their audience. jmho.

CJ, we aren't "bragging" about anything, if you think responding to people's rants on boards is bragging then so be it.

Gonzo, if you have 17 years in IT experience you should have had the time to pull your head out of your ass long enough to re-read my explanation of the difference between spyware and adware. Talk to cj about hidden billing and lifetime memberships. If you'd like to bring that up, she knows more about it than almost anybody.

I'm not going to spend my days posting and pissing with you on this subject, i think you're a sad man because you have nothing to do with your day except spam and focus on what other people do for a living.

I'll give you a free business lesson though, if you want to make money, start doing something (anything) rather than just being a loudmouth and whining to people on icq about how you wish you'd done things differently. You're am embarassment to Oprano and your ridiculous little tiffs with "confucy" are 99% of the reason that I and most of the readers will always think you're an idiot.

[jimmyf]

Hooper gots 2 be Russian a Jew

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by jimmyf@Apr 29 2004, 10:14 AM
Hooper gots 2 be Russian a Jew
no, it's me, you mixed it all up....

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Apr 29 2004, 07:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Apr 29 2004, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--jimmyf@Apr 29 2004, 10:14 AM
Hooper gots 2 be Russian a Jew
no, it's me, you mixed it all up....[/b][/quote]
K

[Mike AI]

I love the line " Feature laden toolbar"


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tony Soprano is a businessman in waste mangement with an Italian heritage.

:yowsa:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 10:09 AM
You're too easy gonzo. nuts? wives? whats next? nanny nanny boo boo? or are you gonna go "confucy" on my ass? lol

Hell Puppy & vick, to answer some of your questions, our toolbar is designed primarily to help build the iSearch.com brand and we have millions of active & perfectly happy users. We have letters of thank you telling us how much they like our popup blocker and the results that we provide. The zoom feature is very helpful to people with bad vision (or people with good vision on bad web pages). I encourage friends and family to use it, because it is what it says it is.

The uninstall is easy and automatic. we make money off of it from the dropdown menu that says "Hot Offers" next to the zoom tool and from the searches that are made from the toolbar. We also occasionally inject an advertisement into their web browser, but it is not contextually or behaviorally targeted, which is the sacrifice we make in order to avoid being defined as "spyware" because I believe that spyware will become regulated very soon.

There are more nuances to the toolbar that I wont go into because they really aren't worth discussing, but some of the things we DON'T do include harvesting email addresses, bundling other people's software with our software, changing dns servers, redirecting searches from other sites, highlighting key words, changing link codes, taking affiliate credit away from affiliates, wrapping users media in DRM, and on and on and on. We have chosen to take a VERY high road with our toolbar.

Despite all the whining and complaining we keep hearing, we have managed to do the virtually impossible and turn worthless shit adult traffic into very profitable non-adult traffic.

Am I on a quest to become a "player" in the search and software markets? You bet. Judging from the Alexa charts that Oprano is so fond of, I'd say we're doing just fine. Vick, watching the monkeys on GFY jump around hasn't impacted our business in even the slightest, yesterday was a fantastic day for every program/product I am involved in and today is looking to be even better. Real businessmen and women care most about their bottom line.

Hell Puppy, Gator/Claria is spyware, it tracks your surfing habits and builds behavioral profiles of you and advertises to you based upon your patterns and what sites you are currently surfing. It is also adware. gator/claria has been sued repeatedly by companies who dont like gator's contextual advertising. they have yet to be sued by a user or in any way sanctioned by a governmental body. keep your eye on the ball though (read: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,...w=wn_story_top5 (http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,63008,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5) ). I dont think they or their underwriters really care what anybody *thinks*.

Serge, i was working at 4pm yesterday. if you taped it i'd be interested in seeing it, but my experience is that just like shows on "porn" or shows on "spam" the media likes to sensationalize things to appeal to their audience. jmho.

CJ, we aren't "bragging" about anything, if you think responding to people's rants on boards is bragging then so be it.

Gonzo, if you have 17 years in IT experience you should have had the time to pull your head out of your ass long enough to re-read my explanation of the difference between spyware and adware. Talk to cj about hidden billing and lifetime memberships. If you'd like to bring that up, she knows more about it than almost anybody.

I'm not going to spend my days posting and pissing with you on this subject, i think you're a sad man because you have nothing to do with your day except spam and focus on what other people do for a living.

I'll give you a free business lesson though, if you want to make money, start doing something (anything) rather than just being a loudmouth and whining to people on icq about how you wish you'd done things differently. You're am embarassment to Oprano and your ridiculous little tiffs with "confucy" are 99% of the reason that I and most of the readers will always think you're an idiot.
Aww Hooper you sneaky bastard. Youve found out that Im easy. Can you send me another one of your posters? The one you sent me from last week is pretty crusty from me jacking off to it. Have you told your wife yet?
I dont mind.

Do you still have those cool colored glasses you used to wear when you were pitching Conversion cash to them AWE webmasters? Those always made me so HARD. It almost distracted me to become transfixed and not realize that no one could understand a word you were saying. You are a master!

But your right...Serge and Mike I am sorry its true I am an embarrassment to you and Oprano. Can you make my punishment be that Hooper spanks me? We could use his toolbar and wrap it into a DRM locked piece of media that times out and asks for that credit card number right when it gets a real close up!

Nick I needs me some Paxil cuz Im a really sad sad man. Can you send me a link to buy some?

In the meantime Hoop is gonna give me a lesson on spamming vs optin.

Could all of you that are ready to jump up and say what Hooper is doing is right do me a big old favor? Can you wait till I get my lesson from the Master?

If Im real lucky I can be the guy that squeels in his next QuickBuck banner!

You sexy savage I am all yours!! Please can we have a bottle of vino from your vinyard to go with that pan roasted sea bass that you whip up for us afterwards? Ill fold the napkins into cool entertaining shapes while you cook.

[Winetalk.com]

yeap, tomorrow is his last day,
I can't stand thsi screamer!

halleluya,
"read my lips, no more screaming hooper"
;-)))

[Vick]

Hmmmmm..... I'm not fully versed in the software

While Hooper chose what to address and not, and did spin some

My superficial opinion (until I learn more) would be if you can walk away with a few mils ........ and control traffic

- I don't see why the ads aren't maximized by behavior, hell you're forcing a download of a bar (which is a topic Hooper avoided) WTF is a little creative ad exposure

and yes the adult industry was killed by um ... interesting practices and saturation

Like I've said the internet has such great potential and we've turned it into a cheap, sometimes amusing flea market
(.... Serge, I know Rome wasn't built in a day ;-) so I'll still hold out some hope for future developments )


Edit - Bottom Line ... if you're fucking (surfers) for $ please have the courtesy to admit it and don't spin in the no spin zone

and that's the way it is according to Vick April 29, 2004 - subject to change he he he



Last edited by Vick at Apr 29 2004, 11:08 AM

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Vick@Apr 29 2004, 10:58 AM


Like I've said the internet has such great potential and we've turned it into a cheap, sometimes amusing flea market (.... Serge I know Rome wasn't built in a day ;-) so I'll still hold out some hope for future developments )


This is a pearl.

The internet is going to eventually be worthless.

Just as we in this industry killed the golden goose, the internet will be killed by huckster shim-sham men.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Apr 29 2004, 11:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Apr 29 2004, 11:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Apr 29 2004, 10:58 AM


Like I've said the internet has such great potential and we've turned it into a cheap, sometimes amusing flea market (.... Serge I know Rome wasn't built in a day ;-) so I'll still hold out some hope for future developments )


This is a pearl.

The internet is going to eventually be worthless.

Just as we in this industry killed the golden goose, the internet will be killed by huckster shim-sham men.[/b][/quote]
Greed, one of the STRONGEST human emotions
;-))

only to be trumped by...fear.

[RawAlex]

So hooper, let me get this straight:

Your product does none of the following:

- redirects surfers at any time from any page entered, address typed, or link clicked
- requires / requests / collects email addresses and resells or reuses them in any manner
- tracks, follows, or otherwise maintains a list of pages visited by surfers
- includes any software that would trigger an alert by any major scanning product, such as adaware.
- does not add, remove, or otherwise change items in the hosts file on PC
- does not provide alternate listings, misleading listings, or redirects surfers based on searches or addresses typed
- does not perform webmaster / track code substitution at any time
- does not track user activity
- cannot be installed without permission and full disclosure of ALL software and it's functions?

Think carefully.

Alex

[Vick]

Serge - can I see your greed and fear and raise you a PASSION ;-))


RawAlex - Not sure it matters
If you could walk away with a few mils so what if what you're doing can be seen as sketchy

Everybody has a price and to paraphrase that infamous sage

"We all have the morals we can afford"




Edit - that's a PASSION, without the christ



Last edited by Vick at Apr 29 2004, 11:43 AM

[Hooper]

did i say all of those things alex?

if you know the answers then post them. but also be aware that adaware also flags things like cookies from major advertisers. i believe several people are suing adaware (and it appears quite succesfully) for encouraging users to remove software based on false claims. bottom line is that while it may be a useful tool, they are full of poop.


Correct - redirects surfers at any time from any page entered, address typed, or link clicked
Correct - requires / requests / collects email addresses and resells or reuses them in any manner
Correct - tracks, follows, or otherwise maintains a list of pages visited by surfers
This is a moot point. See above. - includes any software that would trigger an alert by any major scanning product, such as adaware.
False 1 - does not add, remove, or otherwise change items in the hosts file on PC
Correct - does not provide alternate listings, misleading listings, or redirects surfers based on searches or addresses typed
Correct - does not perform webmaster / track code substitution at any time
Correct - does not track user activity
False 2 - cannot be installed without permission and full disclosure of ALL software and it's functions.

1 - Our ability to monetize our toolbar and provide accurate estimates to our advertisers relies upon accurate statistics about toolbar installation and removal rates. As well, when users begin downloading tools that remove our software incorrectly, they can/do/have cause(d) damage to their system.

If we find a web site who's sole purpose is to encourage users to remove our toolbar utilizing non-standard methods. We block that web site both in the interest of the surfer getting a full and complete uninstall, as well as for our own ability to maintain accurate statistics. Some people dont like that part, but then again we dont like people interfering with our tracking software either.

2 - No software on the world discloses all functions. From QuickBooks to MS Windows to Norton AntiVirus, all software has additional and undocumented features. If somebody wants to install our software, we let them.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Vick@Apr 29 2004, 11:41 AM
Serge - can I see your greed and fear and raise you a PASSION ;-))
Vick,
passionate traders falling in love with the stocks DIE
;-))

Passion is very hazardous to trader's health
;-))

[RawAlex]

Hooper, so your software has additional and undocumented features?

Which ones make you money? Which ones change the surfers net experience?

Come on... quit weasling!

Oh yeah, lensmansworld people are truly having fun with this.

Alex

[Hooper]

I've answered your questions when you were not in fact in any way "entitled" to those answers. I could just have easily have said "none of your business".

So say "Thanks for answering my questions hooper" and go back to your peta rally.

In my best soup nazi voice... "No more answers for you!"

I really dont care what goes on at that tgp that people call gfy, nobody who matters to me cares what goes on their either.



Last edited by Hooper at Apr 29 2004, 12:08 PM

[Vick]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Apr 29 2004, 11:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Apr 29 2004, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Apr 29 2004, 11:41 AM
Serge - can I see your greed and fear and raise you a PASSION ;-))
Vick,
passionate traders falling in love with the stocks DIE
;-))

Passion is very hazardous to trader's health
;-))[/b][/quote]
Yes Passion can be a dangerous emotion
(See Romeo and Juliette)

But sometimes (with the exception of stock trading and extreme sports) for me it's well worth it and a driving factor

Can't image a life without Passion, whether it be for sex, food or any number of things

:)



Edit - Can someone attempt to sum up this entire thread, that will be interesting



Last edited by Vick at Apr 29 2004, 12:14 PM

[Winetalk.com]

Vick, as long as you are not RULED by your passions -
you'll do fine
;-)))

I do my best to keep mine under control
;-)))

[Vick]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Apr 29 2004, 12:25 PM
Vick, as long as you are not RULED by your passions -
you'll do fine
;-)))

I do my best to keep mine under control
;-)))
:okthumb: :okthumb:

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Vick@Apr 29 2004, 12:13 PM

Edit - Can someone attempt to sum up this entire thread, that will be interesting
Here goes..

Serge warns Hooper
Mike Ai agrees
Hooper gives very sarcastic reply
Sarcasm abounds for a few posts
CJ speaks her mind
Hooper replies.
"rinse and repeat a couple times"
Hellpuppy and Vick chime in with questions
Serge advises Hooper
Gonzo responds to Hooper
Hooper responds to Gonzo
jimmyf confuses Hooper and Serge :huh:
Mike Ai make Sopranos comparison
Gonzo replies again
Serge says screaming Hooper gone
Vick says in a Stone Coled Steve Austin voice "And that's the bottom line cause Vick said so!"
Mike says Vick posted pearl
Serge talks about human emotion
Raw Alex asks questions
Vick comments on other people comments and brings up a famous evil bastards famous quote!
Hooper responds to Raw Alex
Serge comments on the pitfalls of passion
Raw Alex calls Hooper on his answer
Hooper tells Raw Alex he is lucky he got the answers he got and isn't getting more.
Vick comments on passion
Serge says Vick will be ok
I respond for summary of thread!

Whew...

[Vick]

Damn TE

You go

[TheEnforcer]

:D

[Peaches]

We will now refer to short summaries as "The Enforcer" version instead of the "Reader's Digest" version. :lol:

Perfect, TE :okthumb:

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Peaches@Apr 29 2004, 01:08 PM
We will now refer to short summaries as "The Enforcer" version instead of the "Reader's Digest" version. :lol:

Perfect, TE :okthumb:
hahaahhaahahahhaha,
thanks TE!
;-)))

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Peaches@Apr 29 2004, 01:08 PM
We will now refer to short summaries as "The Enforcer" version instead of the "Reader's Digest" version. :lol:

Perfect, TE :okthumb:
Thanks dear!! :D

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Apr 29 2004, 01:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Apr 29 2004, 01:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Apr 29 2004, 01:08 PM
We will now refer to short summaries as "The Enforcer" version instead of the "Reader's Digest" version. :lol:

Perfect, TE :okthumb:
hahaahhaahahahhaha,
thanks TE!
;-)))[/b][/quote]
My pleasure sir! :D

[Trev]

TE

That beats the hell outta allofem any day :okthumb: :okthumb:

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Apr 29 2004, 09:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Apr 29 2004, 09:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Apr 29 2004, 12:13 PM

Edit - Can someone attempt to sum up this entire thread, that will be interesting
Here goes..

jimmyf confuses Hooper and Serge :huh:
Whew...[/b][/quote]
2 funny

[sarettah]

Ok, I read this thread, I then went over to the morons hangout to check what the threads over there said. I then went and did some other investigating.

First of all, the thread at GFY seems to be saying that surfers are getting hit with an autodownload from hoopers counter, which from what I can surmise is porngraph.

So, I went over to porngraph, opened an account and grabbed the counter code. The counter code is pretty much similar to most other counter code I have seen. It does a zero image source call to java code on the porngraph.com site, so I grabbed that code to see what I could see. In there is pretty much just standard counter stuff. Basically collects info about the user computer and sends it back to a central collecting station at porngraph. Did not see anything that was personally revealing being collected.

No where in there was there any attempt made to auto install anything on to the puter. There was no attempt to download anything out of the odinary to the puter either.

So, if people are getting stuff autoinstalled through the counter, then the counter code has been changed, or they are misinterpreting the source of the download.

I also went and sought out the isearch toolbar. Went ahead and hit the install button. It brought up the standard download prompt telling me that it wanted to install a program that was called "Free Popup Blocker". I canceled the download. It brough up a message that said that isearch was installed, but upon investigation, nothing was installed on the computer (did registry and file scans before all this and after all this and there were no changes other than normal changes). I checked the code on the download page and it appears to be deciding whether it installed or not based on how long it was between when you hit the page and now. If it is a real short time, it figures it did not install. It is a while, it figures it installed just fine...pretty lame, but not the worst schema I've seen.

So, not to be defending Hooper, but I am not finding creedence to the claims I am reading.

Anyone have anything that might enlighten me ??

:blink:

[Hooper]

i have no ownership in porngraph sarretah and i never have. not even in the r-n sense of the word. other than that you're analysis is right on. we have to test the install that way because we dont mark our toolbar as "safe for scripting" so we dont expose users to any potential holes in our work.

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 02:07 PM
i have no ownership in porngraph sarretah and i never have. not even in the r-n sense of the word. other than that you're analysis is right on. we have to test the install that way because we dont mark our toolbar as "safe for scripting" so we dont expose users to any potential holes in our work.
Hey :)

Ok, if porngraph is not your counter (because that is what it looked like the gfyers were yakkiing about), do you have a counter that they are accusing you of using to do all these dirty deeds ? If so, what is it and would you mind me doing the same sort of nosing around I was just doing ?

thanx

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Trev@Apr 29 2004, 01:31 PM
TE

That beats the hell outta allofem any day :okthumb: :okthumb:
Hahaha!! thanks!! :okthumb:

[Winetalk.com]

Sare, the counter CHANGED the practice YESTERDAY after the outcry from webmasters.

you are one day short
;-)))

[Hooper]

Originally posted by sarettah+Apr 29 2004, 02:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ Apr 29 2004, 02:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 02:07 PM
i have no ownership in porngraph sarretah and i never have. not even in the r-n sense of the word. other than that you're analysis is right on. we have to test the install that way because we dont mark our toolbar as "safe for scripting" so we dont expose users to any potential holes in our work.
Hey :)

Ok, if porngraph is not your counter (because that is what it looked like the gfyers were yakkiing about), do you have a counter that they are accusing you of using to do all these dirty deeds ? If so, what is it and would you mind me doing the same sort of nosing around I was just doing ?

thanx[/b][/quote]
no. they are suggesting that the people who run porngraph were installing my toolbar (e.g. we are the sponsor, porngraph was promoting our toolbar)

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Apr 29 2004, 02:27 PM
Sare, the counter CHANGED the practice YESTERDAY after the outcry from webmasters.

you are one day short
;-)))
lol...I kind of figured that part out........... :blink:

Hooper..........

Ok, I went and decided to give this all a little benefit of the doubt.

So. I went to Isearch and purposely installed the toolbar.

First of all. You really do not reveal anywhere what yoiu are installing. No list of features. No agreement, nothing. I would think for legal purposes on both sides (you and the user) you would want at least some sort of standard software disclaimer indicating what is being installed.

I pulled up my file settings and registry settings before and after the install. From what I can see it installs toolbar.dll which is referenced as a search hook, a browser helper object and a toolbar. It also writes an extra context menu entry that calls for initial.cab to be loaded from isearch.

I downloaded initial.cab and did not find anything screwy there.

The search bar itself is not in my mind at all impressive. Nothing new or great there for the user. There is a piss off point because upon install, your toolbar makes the toolbar menu in IE inaccessible.

Ok, so then I went and checked to see if there was an uninstall option in my software removal settings in the control panel. Noper, not there. I went to isearch and downloaded the uninstaller that you have there. It did not uninstall anything, came back with a message that it could not uninstall. Since I had not rebooted since the install, I went ahead and rebooted and then ran the uninstall. No good again.

I then went in and manually removed it from my system, set my registry back etcetra.

Only trace of it at this point is that my toolbar menu in IE is still unaccessable.

[Hooper]

click the "help my menubar is locked" faq and follow those instructions.

[Opti]

Sounds like you have a smart product Hooper.. if you can distribute it widely enough without the forced download.

[Vick]

Hmmmm....

Something doesn't add up here....

it was/maybe a forced download from porngraph, it self installs, it has to be installed, it doesn't uninstall, it uninstalls with help from the FAQ, there is no dialog box when installing, there is a dialog box and or disclosure when installing

Where's the investigative reporter? :blink:




Oh fuck it, if it makes $

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Vick@Apr 29 2004, 03:27 PM

Where's the investigative reporter? :blink:


ask Gonzo this question,
he knows the answer and reporters involved.

Check your TV listing, Hooper is getting famous beyond his believes
;-)))

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 03:11 PM
click the "help my menubar is locked" faq and follow those instructions.
already did it, I had seen that ref in my google search for isearch toolbar....fixed it up.


So.. My whole reason for all of this was to see if there is creedence in what is being said here and on GFY...

Forst of all, if you do a google on "isearch toolbar" you will get a bit over 10,000 results, most of which seem to be complaints about it, how to remove it, installed without my permission, all that.

Hooper, you claim that "The uninstall is easy and automatic.". This is not a true statement. First of all, the uninstall should be able to be reached through the software removal option on the windows control panel, it is not. Secondly, the uninstall requires a return trip to the site (I did not check inside the toolbar itself to see if a link was there because I already knew where the uninstall instructions and download were). The uninstaller that I downloaded from the isearch website did not work. I had to remove a dll file and several registry entries to remove the software then I had to go download the unlocking entries for the registry as a seperate download. While this was all relatively painless for me, for the average surfer/computer user, this would have been a many hour exercise.

If your software is legit, then make it easy to uninstall, what are you worried about ?

As I previously stated, there was no place that indicated what I was installing with the exception of a brief explanation on the website and the fact that the download file was labeled as a "Free Popup Blocker". I did not agree to any terms and conditions, I did not see any feature list. It was basically a blind download and one that if I did not have your ear on it, I would not have done it. Again, if you are wanting to be/look legit I would state the features and exactly what is going to be downloaded on to the machine. Get the surfers expilicit agreement to make the changes and you are that much more on the side of legality. When a case of spyware/malware/adware auto install finally gets into court, the argument that you downloaded the program so you therefore agreed to everything will not stand up.

On the plus side for you, all certficates seemed in order, I could tell who to complain to if I needed to, so that was all good.

The locking of the toolbars is an unnecessary "piss off the surfer" item. On the FAQ for the uninstall on the isearch site http://toolbar.isearch.com/uninstall/ you state "If you would prefer to maintain control of your Internet Explorer toolbar it's as easy as downloading this file, selecting "Open", and selecting "Yes" when asked if you would like to merge the data. After doing this, close internet explorer and re-open it.". Well, the fact of the matter is that you never asked me if I wanted to maintain control of my toolbars and of course I do. Downloading software does not give the software owners/authors/distributors the right to hijack my machine in any way, shape or form. Doesn't matter if the software is form you, gator or microsoft. Making changes without notifying me and giving me the option to not make the change is a hijack. (and yes, I know microsoft and windows update does this all the time and I have issues about that too... Just because johnny down the street jumps off the bridge doesn't mean you should).

Anyway, long long story short. I found the software to be riding the edge a little bit. It des not seem to be a malevolent package, it si not what I would call spyware, it is more like an adware package than a spyware package. There are some issues that could be easily addressed that would make it much more acceptable to the general population and would make it appear much more legit.

If you are advocating (by ignoring, paying or assisting) affiliates to do an blind auto load of the software, than you should be shot. I would hope that you are treating incidents like this as any sponsor would treat incidents of cheating and are wiping the affiliates account out.

The porngraph download was accomplished, apparently, using an IE hole that allowed a chm file to be downloaded which then launched an auotinstaller. This is a scumware/malware/spyware tactic. If you stand behind your product as you seem to be claiming then I would hope that you would take porngraph to task very publically and loudly for this behaviour.

Thats all I go to say :)

[Vick]

Damn I love this thread

It's like a genie ......

I ask for a summary and TE has a great one in minutes

I ask where's the investigative reporter and sarettah has it turned inside and out in minutes

Let's see, if the story goes true to form I only have one wish left and I need to be careful what I wish for

Hmmmmmm .....

[Hooper]

Sarretah,

sure it'd be nice if there was a gigantic "remove me" button on the toolbar, but it would also be nice if sponsors didnt have consoles, if microsoft just upgraded you to the new os for free, and if used car sales men were honest. but we live in the real world and we're not trying to be "nice". I want you to keep my toolbar.

as far as "make features more obvious, make terms more clear"... you went to my website. you looked at the description of my toolbar and you clicked "Install". Caveat Emptor!

[Vick]

Caveat Emptor - loosely translated - let the buyer beware

Didn't know anyone bought anything

[DrGuile]

Poor hooper, to think I can name 2 other companies that have the same product (or worse) right off the top of my head, and he's getting all the flak.


funny business....


oh, and the toolbar is scumware. "full of helpfull features" "people emailing to thank us" is so hilarious I think I peed my pants.

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 04:04 PM
as far as "make features more obvious, make terms more clear"... you went to my website. you looked at the description of my toolbar and you clicked "Install". Caveat Emptor!
Isn't that pretty much the same argument Crescent used when they ended up in front of the FTC the first time ?

I think that one cost them 100mill and their websites............

I was not trying to be attacking.. I was merely offering up some ideas. There are very few times that it pays off to look shadier than you need to.

As for the giant button... Don't see where I reccomended that. I recommended adding it to the control panel software list. You have the option through that to run any uninstall program you want, you can at the point they are trying to remove it have the option of trying to convince them to keep it (another contact/sales opportunity) or collect data on why they want to uninstall it, etc.

I thought I was being pretty fair in my assesment, sorry I hit your sarcasm button. Guess I will keep my comments to myself and let the Hooper fan club have the thread back.

later

[Hooper]

lol, i was merely responding to you sarettah, dont go off and cry.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Apr 29 2004, 03:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Apr 29 2004, 03:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Apr 29 2004, 03:27 PM

Where's the investigative reporter? :blink:


ask Gonzo this question,
he knows the answer and reporters involved.

Check your TV listing, Hooper is getting famous beyond his believes
;-)))[/b][/quote]
The reporters havent phoned in yet.
You can hear a live report Tuesday night though.

[cj]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 04:38 PM
lol, i was merely responding to you sarettah, dont go off and cry.
Hooper, Sarettah is the only person who has bothered to give you the benefit of the doubt and has obviously spent some time looking at every 'feature' you are arguing with webmasters about.

He gave you a very fair summary with some reasons why people think this download is dodgy. His suggestions would not cause you problems, they would solve some of the valid concerns from webmasters & surfers.

So instead of using this opportunity to explain yourself or even to learn a little something about how to improve your product from someone who isn't attacking you, you continue with your sarcastic arrogance??!?

what a dumbass ...

Gonzo, if you have 17 years in IT experience you should have had the time to pull your head out of your ass long enough to re-read my explanation of the difference between spyware and adware. Talk to cj about hidden billing and lifetime memberships. If you'd like to bring that up, she knows more about it than almost anybody.

I know more about hidding billing than YOU?! hahahahahahhahahahahahhahaa now who is taking liberties with the facts?!?!? YOUR billing options have shocked even some of the aussies so watch those stones mr glass house. isn't that why you are hammering this toolbar project? to pay for your chargeback problems for your past years of creative billing?!??!!?

If you hadn't noticed, the company I worked for which crossbilled surfers went from $80mil a quarter in earnings to jack shit in a month .... & the people who run that are a whole lot smarter than you!

The more money you earn hoops, the bigger the fines & debts are - and people get a lot more pissed off when you've cost them a million rather than a few bucks :awinky:

It doesn't matter what sarcastic comments you respond with about my business practices Hooper, what I'm doing with my projects is pretty darn obvious & I'm happy to answer ANY questions, as always. I don't need to gloss over my answers with lies and sarcasm to protect my business model - unless you think a 30 minute free preview is dodgy?! Isn't that one of your billing models i've copied?!

:rolleyes:

worry about yourself right now hooper, & take my advice - learn from other people's mistakes :okthumb:

[Hell Puppy]

Pretty obvious, Hooper has no customers, he only has marks...

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Apr 29 2004, 08:10 PM
Pretty obvious, Hooper has no customers, he only has marks...
I am curious HOW is he gonna handle "marksmen"
;-)))

[cj]

aware update


FUCK YOU INCREDIFIND
I'm up to about 12 registry entries/dll files spread throughout the computer & still searching.

i don't care what level of self installing product you run, THEY ALL SUCK. STAY OFF MY GOD DAMN COMPUTER!!!! I don't need 404's redirected to a pay per click search engine!! :grrr:

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by cj@Apr 29 2004, 08:15 PM
aware update


FUCK YOU INCREDIFIND
I'm up to about 12 registry entries/dll files spread throughout the computer & still searching.

i don't care what level of self installing product you run, THEY ALL SUCK. STAY OFF MY GOD DAMN COMPUTER!!!! I don't need 404's redirected to a pay per click search engine!! :grrr:
As this shit gets more common, it may open the door for Nutscrape to make a bit of a come back.

I keep ActiveX locked down and Norton scanning for scripts and manage to swat most attempts to fuck my system. However, I'm seriously considering starting to run Firefox for surfing unfamiliar sites instead of IE.

[cj]

Hellpuppy, i'm running pretty good protection but a few times i've been tricked with options like:

ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO CANCEL?

YES / NO

where the yes actually means 'yes i want to download this file' .... but most times its just there like magic. I've been surfing a lot of shit sites lately like celebrity webrings and free wallpaper download sites etc

I dread using nutscrape, my whole design formatting relies on stylesheets LOL

I guess I will disable activeX & use my other pc for surfing ;-(

feature laden toolbars my ass
:grrr:

[Hell Puppy]

Nutscrape has gotten MUCH better at rendering pages to look same as MSIE. Most style sheets play nice.

But I'd hate to have to start coding for multiple browsers again....those days were a pain in the fucking ass...

[Vick]

Ugarte: Rick, think of all the poor devils who can't meet Renault's price. I get it for them for half. Is that so... parasitic?

Rick: I don't mind a parasite. I object to a cut-rate one.

[gonzo]

Scissors cuts paper.

[cj]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Apr 29 2004, 08:46 PM
Nutscrape has gotten MUCH better at rendering pages to look same as MSIE. Most style sheets play nice.

But I'd hate to have to start coding for multiple browsers again....those days were a pain in the fucking ass...
At least we can have faith that Microsoft is jumping in to stop people like hooper from monopolizing their monopoly LOL

Just this once, Microsoft might help us ...





it felt wrong just typing that sentence LOL

[sarettah]

CJ, do you have "hijack this" ? If not, go get a copy and download it http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/downloads.html

Once you have it, if you want some help killing the pestware, let me know.

[cj]

Thanks Sar, gonzo just sent me this a few minutes ago so guess what xippy's first job is today ;-)))

[Hooper]

having the last word seems important to ya'll, so you can have it. :salute:

[Vick]

Joel Cairo: You always have a very smooth explanation...

Sam Spade: What do you want me to do, learn to stutter?

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 09:37 PM
having the last word seems important to ya'll, so you can have it. :salute:
Steve Gibson

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 29 2004, 09:37 PM
having the last word seems important to ya'll, so you can have it. :salute:
http://www.titflicks.com/gonads.wav


and now you know the rest of the story.

[Frank]

If your PC has had problems try Spyware Warrior.

http://www.netrn.net/spywareblog/

I recommend visiting this site daily - it tracks the whole Spyware Adware thing closer than anywhere else I know...