crack down on porn by the feds?

[Mike AI]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.ob...-home-headlines (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.obscenity06apr06,0,3004361.story?coll=bal-home-headlines)

Administration wages war on pornography
Obscenity: For the first time in 10 years, the U.S. government is spending millions to file charges across the country.


Originally published April 6, 2004
WASHINGTON - Lam Nguyen's job is to sit for hours in a chilly, quiet room devoid of any color but gray and look at pornography. This job, which Nguyen does earnestly from 9 to 5, surrounded by a half-dozen other "computer forensic specialists" like him, has become the focal point of the Justice Department's operation to rid the world of porn.

In this field office in Washington, 32 prosecutors, investigators and a handful of FBI agents are spending millions of dollars to bring anti-obscenity cases to courthouses across the country for the first time in 10 years. Nothing is off limits, they warn, even soft-core cable programs such as HBO's long-running Real Sex or the adult movies widely offered in guestrooms of major hotel chains.

Department officials say they will send "ripples" through an industry that has proliferated on the Internet and grown into an estimated $10 billion-a-year colossus profiting Fortune 500 corporations such as Comcast, which offers hard-core movies on a pay-per-view channel.

The Justice Department recently hired Bruce Taylor, who was instrumental in a handful of convictions obtained over the past year and unsuccessfully represented the state in a 1981 case, Larry Flynt vs. Ohio.

Flynt, who recently opened a Hustler nightclub in Baltimore, says everyone in the business is wary, making sure their taxes are paid and the "talent" is over 18. He says he's ready for a rematch, especially with Taylor.

"Everyone's concerned," Flynt said in an interview. "We deal in plain old vanilla sex. Nothing really outrageous. But who knows, they may want a big target like myself."

A recent episode of Showtime's Family Business, a reality show about Adam Glasser, an adult film director and entrepreneur in California, had him worrying about shipping his material to states more apt to prosecute. It also featured him organizing a pornographic Internet telethon to raise money for targets of prosecution.

Drew Oosterbaan, chief of the division in charge of obscenity prosecutions at the Justice Department, says officials are trying to send a message and halt an industry they see as growing increasingly "lawless."

"We want to do everything we can to deter this conduct" by producers and consumers, Oosterbaan said. "Nothing is off the table as far as content."

Money and friends

It is unclear, though, just how the American public and major corporations that make money from pornography will accept the perspective of the Justice Department and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

Any move against mainstream pornography could affect large telephone companies offering broadband Internet service or the dozens of national credit card companies providing payment services to pornographic Web sites.

Cable television, meanwhile, which has found late-night lineups with "adult programming" highly profitable, is unlikely to budge, and such companies have powerful friends.

Brian Roberts, the CEO of Comcast, which offers "hard-core" porn on the Hot Network channel (at $11.99 per film in Baltimore), was co-chair of Philadelphia 2000, the host committee that brought the Republican National Convention to Philadelphia. In February, the Bush campaign honored Comcast President Stephen Burke with "Ranger" status, for agreeing to raise at least $200,000 for the president's re-election effort. Comcast's executive vice president, David Cohen, has close ties to Gov. Edward G. Rendell of Pennsylvania, a former chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

Tim Fitzpatrick, the spokesman for Comcast at its corporate headquarters in Philadelphia, declined to comment on the cable network's adult programming. But officials at the National Cable and Telecommunications Association, which Roberts used to chair, said adult programming is legal, relies on subscription services for access and has been upheld by the courts for years.

"Good luck turning back that clock," said Paul Rodriguez, a spokesman for the association.

Ashcroft vs. consent

In a speech in 2002, Ashcroft made it clear that the Justice Department intends to try. He said pornography "invades our homes persistently though the mail, phone, VCR, cable TV and the Internet," and has "strewn its victims from coast to coast."

Given the millions of dollars Americans are spending each month on adult cable television, Internet sites and magazines and videos, many may see themselves not as victims but as consumers, with an expectation of rights, choices and privacy.

Ashcroft, a religious man who does not drink alcohol or caffeine, smoke, gamble or dance, and has fought unrelenting criticism that he has trod roughshod on civil liberties in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, is taking on the porn industry at a time when many experts say Americans are wary about government intrusion into their lives.

The Bush administration is eager to shore up its conservative base with this issue. Ashcroft held private meetings with conservative groups a year and a half ago to assure them that anti-porn efforts are a priority.

But administration critics and First Amendment rights attorneys warn that the initiative could smack of Big Brother, and that targeting such a broad range of readily available materials could backfire.

"They are miscalculating the pulse of the community," said attorney Paul Cambria, who has gone head to head with Taylor in cases dating to the 1970s.

"I think a lot of adults would say this is not what they had in mind, spending millions of dollars and the time of the courts and FBI agents and postal inspectors and prosecutors investigating what consenting adults are doing and watching."

The law itself rests on the landmark 1973 Supreme Court decision in Miller vs. California, which held that something is "obscene" only if an average person applying contemporary community standards finds it patently offensive. But until now, it hasn't been prosecuted at the federal level for more than 10 years.

Since the last time he faced Taylor, Flynt's empire has grown into a multimillion-dollar corporation with a large, almost conservative-looking headquarters in California, where he and executives in dark suits oversee the company's dozens of men's clubs, sex stores and more than 30 magazines.

"He's basically crusaded against everything I've fought for for the past 30 years," Flynt said. "This is for consenting adults. They have the right to view what they want to in the privacy of their own home. And even if they don't enjoy these materials, they still don't want to be looking over their neighbors' shoulders."

Cases and results

Taylor, who has been involved in the prosecution of more than 700 pornography cases since the 1970s, including at the Justice Department in the late 1980s and early '90s, declined to be interviewed. But he did talk to reporters for the PBS program Frontline in 2001, when he was president of the National Law Center for Children and Families, an anti-porn group.

"Just about everything on the Internet and almost everything in the video stores and everything in the adult bookstores is still prosecutable illegal obscenity," he said.

"Some of the cable versions of porno movies are prosecutable. Once it becomes obvious that this really is a federal felony instead of just a form of entertainment or investment, then legitimate companies, to stay legitimate, are going to have to distance themselves from it."

The Justice Department pursued obscenity cases vigorously in the 1970s and '80s, prosecuting not necessarily the worst offenders in terms of extreme material, but those it viewed as most responsible for pornography's proliferation.

Oosterbaan said the department is employing much the same strategy this time, targeting not only some of the most egregious hard-core porn but also more conventional material, in an effort "to be as effective as possible."

"I can't possibly put it all away," he said. "Results are what we want."

The strategy in the 1980s resulted in a lot of extreme pornography - dealing in urination, violence or bestiality - going underground. Today, with the Internet, international producers and a substantial market, industry officials say there is no underground.

Obscenity cases came to a standstill under Janet Reno, President Bill Clinton's attorney general, who focused on child pornography, which is considered child abuse and comes under different criminal statutes. The ensuing years saw an explosion of porn, so much so that critics say that Americans' tolerance for sexually explicit material rivals that of Europeans.

That tolerance could prove to be the obscenity division's biggest obstacle. Americans are used to seeing sex, experts say, in the movies, in their e-mail inboxes and on popular cable shows such as HBO's Sex and the City. There is no real gauge of just how obscene a jury will find pornographic material.

The majority of defendants indicted in federal courts over the past year have taken plea agreements when faced with the weight and resources of the Justice Department. More than 50 other federal investigations are under way.

In 2001, though, one interesting case emerged from St. Charles County, Mo., the heart of Ashcroft's conservative Missouri base. First Amendment lawyer Cambria defended a video store there against state charges that it was renting two obscene videotapes that depicted group sex, anal sex and sex with objects.

Cambria won, convincing a jury of 12 women, all between the ages of 40 and 60, that the tapes had educational value and helped reduce inhibitions. They reached the verdict in less than three hours.

The department's most closely watched case involves "extreme" porn producer Rob Zicari and his North Hollywood company Extreme Associates. The prolific Zicari is charged with selling five allegedly obscene videotapes, which he now markets as the "Federal Five," that depict simulated rapes and murder.

Almost reveling in the charges, Zicari's Web site says, "The most controversial company in porn today! Guess what? Controversy ... sells!"

The case hangs on a strategic move by the Justice Department that could make or break hundreds of future cases. Instead of bringing charges in Hollywood, where Zicari easily defeated a local obscenity ordinance recently in a jury trial, department officials ordered his tapes from Pittsburgh, Pa., and charged him there, hoping for a jury pool less porn-friendly.

Industry lawyers and top executives contend that the courts should rule that because the tapes were ordered on the Internet, the "community standard" demanded by the law should be the standard of the whole community of the World Wide Web.

The Internet is filled with ample evidence of even more hard-core or offensive material from abroad, they say, and someone in Pittsburgh should not be able to determine what someone in Hollywood can order.

Either way, Nguyen, father of a 2-year-old girl, and his co-workers spend their days scouring the Internet for the most obscene material, following leads sent in by citizens and tracking pornographers operating under different names. The job wears on them all, day after day, so much so that the obscenity division has recently set up in-house counseling for them to talk about what they're seeing and how it is affecting them.

"This stuff isn't the easiest to deal with," Nguyen said recently while at his computer. "But I think we're going after the bad guys and we're making a difference, and that's what makes it worthwhile."

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 04:21 PM


"Everyone's concerned," Flynt said in an interview. "We deal in plain old vanilla sex. Nothing really outrageous. But who knows, they may want a big target like myself."


Larry, don't worry,
on the internet they find weasel a bigger target than you are...

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 04:21 PM
Ashcroft, a religious man who does not drink alcohol or caffeine, smoke, gamble or dance, and has fought unrelenting criticism that he has trod roughshod on civil liberties in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, is taking on the porn industry at a time when many experts say Americans are wary about government intrusion into their lives.

That is the scariest man in the world right now

People chastised the Taliban for holding such extreme views

The only thing missing is burkas and I wonder if Ashcroft has ideas about those too...

Remember, this guy will NOT make a distinction bewteen the Rob Zacaris of the world and the guy shooting "softcore teen models".

While I'm normally not the tinfoil hat type, this madman has me at least glancing at the box of renyolds wrap sitting on the kitchen counter...

[JR]

vote Democrat 04' !

FREE BUSH

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 6 2004, 04:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 6 2004, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 04:21 PM
Ashcroft, a religious man who does not drink alcohol or caffeine, smoke, gamble or dance, and has fought unrelenting criticism that he has trod roughshod on civil liberties in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, is taking on the porn industry at a time when many experts say Americans are wary about government intrusion into their lives.

That is the scariest man in the world right now

People chastised the Taliban for holding such extreme views

The only thing missing is burkas and I wonder if Ashcroft has ideas about those too...

Remember, this guy will NOT make a distinction bewteen the Rob Zacaris of the world and the guy shooting "softcore teen models".

While I'm normally not the tinfoil hat type, this madman has me at least glancing at the box of renyolds wrap sitting on the kitchen counter...[/b][/quote]


Ashcroft has some wacky personal views, those shared by a very narrow minority in the US. However, I have yet to see him act on them and push and agenda. He follows and enforces the laws that are on the books.

For as Conservative as he is, he is not an activist at all, and really has not been much of a thorn at all. Is this because of 9-11? Maybe. Will this change in the future? time will tell.

I think the arguement that the clock cannot be turned back is a solid one. The cat is out the bag.

[Rolo]

Yeah, but they will try and chase that cat away from their backyard :rolleyes:

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Rolo@Apr 6 2004, 05:13 PM
Yeah, but they will try and chase that cat away from their backyard :rolleyes:


I think some kind of crack down is due.

The reality is there is a lot of things that have gone on to much. I am surprised the feds want to go after more then just KP. Let's face it they have not done a great job handling that. It is rampant.

I would like to see a CDA 3, one that can pass Constitutional muster. If it elminated tons of free porn, and required certain record keeping this would help the industry.

This quote makes the most sense to me:



Drew Oosterbaan, chief of the division in charge of obscenity prosecutions at the Justice Department, says officials are trying to send a message and halt an industry they see as growing increasingly "lawless."

There is lawlessness in this industry, and its not just with obscenity but also with theft, credit card fraud, copyright violations, etc...

We have shown as a industry we cannot police ourselves - that we are racing to the bottom... so the Feds are going to intervene. If they do it with a scapel rather then a meat cleaver most of us at Oprano will benefit from it!

[Winetalk.com]

...and the biggest pornographer on the Internet today is weasel,
on his own admission,
Ashcroft must start with him,
chop off the head and the rest of us will follow!

you think he calls Ashcroft and volunteers like he called FTC on me????

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 04:21 PM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.ob...-home-headlines (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.obscenity06apr06,0,3004361.story?coll=bal-home-headlines)

Administration wages war on pornography
Obscenity: For the first time in 10 years, the U.S. government is spending millions to file charges across the country.


Originally published April 6, 2004
WASHINGTON - Lam Nguyen's job is to sit for hours in a chilly, quiet room devoid of any color but gray and look at pornography. This job, which Nguyen does earnestly from 9 to 5, surrounded by a half-dozen other "computer forensic specialists" like him, has become the focal point of the Justice Department's operation to rid the world of porn.


What the FUCK does computer forensics have to do with surfing porn?

[Rolo]

I agree that we could crack that $afe wide open, if the FBI was more alert, and did some kind of policing of the industry.

However seeing how the goverment is dealing with other "moral" issues like gambling, meds etc. then I do fear that they will hit the industry in the supply chain instead of only going after the "obscene" content.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Rolo@Apr 6 2004, 05:38 PM
I agree that we could crack that $afe wide open, if the FBI was more alert, and did some kind of policing of the industry.

However seeing how the goverment is dealing with other "moral" issues like gambling, meds etc. then I do fear that they will hit the industry in the supply chain instead of only going after the "obscene" content.
feds, go for the head!!!!

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Apr 6 2004, 05:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Apr 6 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 04:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 04:21 PM
Ashcroft, a religious man who does not drink alcohol or caffeine, smoke, gamble or dance, and has fought unrelenting criticism that he has trod roughshod on civil liberties in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, is taking on the porn industry at a time when many experts say Americans are wary about government intrusion into their lives.

That is the scariest man in the world right now

People chastised the Taliban for holding such extreme views

The only thing missing is burkas and I wonder if Ashcroft has ideas about those too...

Remember, this guy will NOT make a distinction bewteen the Rob Zacaris of the world and the guy shooting "softcore teen models".

While I'm normally not the tinfoil hat type, this madman has me at least glancing at the box of renyolds wrap sitting on the kitchen counter...


Ashcroft has some wacky personal views, those shared by a very narrow minority in the US. However, I have yet to see him act on them and push and agenda. He follows and enforces the laws that are on the books.

For as Conservative as he is, he is not an activist at all, and really has not been much of a thorn at all. Is this because of 9-11? Maybe. Will this change in the future? time will tell.

I think the arguement that the clock cannot be turned back is a solid one. The cat is out the bag.[/b][/quote]
You don't think they could find a bible belt small town to bring a company that even does only "vanilla" porn up on charges? You want to spend a shitload of money defending yourself against obscenity charges?

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 05:19 PM
We have shown as a industry we cannot police ourselves - that we are racing to the bottom... so the Feds are going to intervene. If they do it with a scapel rather then a meat cleaver most of us at Oprano will benefit from it!
Nothing in that article suggests a scalpel approach Mike. Nothing.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Apr 6 2004, 06:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Apr 6 2004, 06:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 05:19 PM
We have shown as a industry we cannot police ourselves - that we are racing to the bottom... so the Feds are going to intervene. If they do it with a scapel rather then a meat cleaver most of us at Oprano will benefit from it!
Nothing in that article suggests a scalpel approach Mike. Nothing.[/b][/quote]


TE this is an article. I judge by actions.

So far the actions I see have been a scapel. I am not going to kid myself, I know that people like Ashcroft see all porn as evil. However, I do think vanilla porn is now accepted in majority of communities.

Did you read this part?

In 2001, though, one interesting case emerged from St. Charles County, Mo., the heart of Ashcroft's conservative Missouri base. First Amendment lawyer Cambria defended a video store there against state charges that it was renting two obscene videotapes that depicted group sex, anal sex and sex with objects.

Cambria won, convincing a jury of 12 women, all between the ages of 40 and 60, that the tapes had educational value and helped reduce inhibitions. They reached the verdict in less than three hours.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Apr 6 2004, 06:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Apr 6 2004, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -TheEnforcer@Apr 6 2004, 06:12 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 05:19 PM
We have shown as a industry we cannot police ourselves - that we are racing to the bottom... so the Feds are going to intervene. If they do it with a scapel rather then a meat cleaver most of us at Oprano will benefit from it!
Nothing in that article suggests a scalpel approach Mike. Nothing.


TE this is an article. I judge by actions.

So far the actions I see have been a scapel. I am not going to kid myself, I know that people like Ashcroft see all porn as evil. However, I do think vanilla porn is now accepted in majority of communities.

Did you read this part?

In 2001, though, one interesting case emerged from St. Charles County, Mo., the heart of Ashcroft's conservative Missouri base. First Amendment lawyer Cambria defended a video store there against state charges that it was renting two obscene videotapes that depicted group sex, anal sex and sex with objects.

Cambria won, convincing a jury of 12 women, all between the ages of 40 and 60, that the tapes had educational value and helped reduce inhibitions. They reached the verdict in less than three hours.
[/b][/quote]
Yes, but do you think that will deter him? Or will they just try a different location to get the elusive "vanilla" porn conviction that will get 1000 times the press coverage this successful defense will that I am sure they want to get so as to try and get a rolling snowball effect? It still costs a lot of money for people who SHOULDN'T have to be defending themselves in the first place.

I am certainly not arguing that stuff is anywhere near perfect in this biz. If they stuck to the extreme stuff I wouldn't mind it a bit.... but they aren't and people that shouldn't have to go through that kind of mess are.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Apr 6 2004, 05:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Apr 6 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 04:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 04:21 PM
Ashcroft, a religious man who does not drink alcohol or caffeine, smoke, gamble or dance, and has fought unrelenting criticism that he has trod roughshod on civil liberties in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, is taking on the porn industry at a time when many experts say Americans are wary about government intrusion into their lives.

That is the scariest man in the world right now

People chastised the Taliban for holding such extreme views

The only thing missing is burkas and I wonder if Ashcroft has ideas about those too...

Remember, this guy will NOT make a distinction bewteen the Rob Zacaris of the world and the guy shooting "softcore teen models".

While I'm normally not the tinfoil hat type, this madman has me at least glancing at the box of renyolds wrap sitting on the kitchen counter...


Ashcroft has some wacky personal views, those shared by a very narrow minority in the US. However, I have yet to see him act on them and push and agenda. He follows and enforces the laws that are on the books.

For as Conservative as he is, he is not an activist at all, and really has not been much of a thorn at all. Is this because of 9-11? Maybe. Will this change in the future? time will tell.

I think the arguement that the clock cannot be turned back is a solid one. The cat is out the bag.[/b][/quote]
That's because Ashcroft is one of those sneaky types

For years, he's been trying to push for more FBI and CIA powers and was always rebuffed...then suddenly September 11 happens and he's getting legislation passed through that he was trying to fight for.

He won't get out there and be loud and proud, but behind the scenes, he'll be slowly rolling over rights to pursue his own biblical agenda.

The ONLY reason we didn't see more anti-porn actions sooner is because of September 11th...

[Meat]

I heard a whisper that Ashcroft is taking a personal interest in what happens with the Sweets case in Canada.

[Mike AI]

I am certainly not arguing that stuff is anywhere near perfect in this biz. If they stuck to the extreme stuff I wouldn't mind it a bit.... but they aren't and people that shouldn't have to go through that kind of mess are.

Can you back up these words with proof of actions taken by the feds?

[JR]

Bush and Ashcroft made it clear BEFORE they were elected that they were going to go after porn.

Be thankful for this time you were given. At least now there is a chance to vote them out before anything real happens.

FREE BUSH in Nov.

[TheEnforcer]

You already provided that right in this thread Mike.

[JR]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Apr 6 2004, 06:05 PM
You already provided that right in this thread Mike.
oooh oooh its like a political riddle!

:rokk:

[Vick]

Please Keep Ashcroft

Online porn seriously needs to be cracked down upon and cleaned up

NO FREE PORN ACCESSIBLE TO MINORS

GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by JR+Apr 6 2004, 09:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Apr 6 2004, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--TheEnforcer@Apr 6 2004, 06:05 PM
You already provided that right in this thread Mike.
oooh oooh its like a political riddle!

:rokk:[/b][/quote]
The article only mentions a few instances.

Hardly a epidemic.

[cj]

>>Ashcroft, a religious man who does not drink alcohol or caffeine, smoke, gamble or dance

fuck no wonder he's coming after us ... he's bored shitless!!!! :biglaugh:

[Hooper]

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”


How many instances do there really need to be before it should be taken seriously? I mean, they are openly spending taxpayer money to run a team that does nothing but investigate adult content, they have publically stated their intention to go after even vanilla porn, and there are more prosecutions going on right now then there have been in the past 10 years combined.

Seriously, you waiting til nobody is left on oprano?

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 6 2004, 10:11 PM
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”


How many instances do there really need to be before it should be taken seriously? I mean, they are openly spending taxpayer money to run a team that does nothing but investigate adult content, they have publically stated their intention to go after even vanilla porn, and there are more prosecutions going on right now then there have been in the past 10 years combined.

Seriously, you waiting til nobody is left on oprano?
Hoop, I am not happy with Ashcroft's stance, but I think this industry has pushed to many boundaries and needs to be curtailed some. Do I want Ashcroft doing it? Not really, but who will.

As far as who I am voting for, the lack of porn prosecutions is not even in my top 10 concerns politically.

It is tax time Hoop, have you been enjoying your tax break? :D

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 10:16 PM

Hoop, I am not happy with Ashcroft's stance, but I think this industry has pushed to many boundaries and needs to be curtailed some. Do I want Ashcroft doing it? Not really, but who will.

Mike, there was a time when what you are doing now was pushing boundaries

To Ashcroft and his Nazi scumbag followers, YOU are EQUAL to those envelope pushers...

These people aren't content with regulating porn, they want to eradicate it....there is a huge difference

You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...

Like I said before, it's not quite time to build that tinfoil hat yet, but you might want to keep an eye on the reynolds wrap in your kitchen...

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Apr 6 2004, 10:16 PM

Hoop, I am not happy with Ashcroft's stance, but I think this industry has pushed to many boundaries and needs to be curtailed some. Do I want Ashcroft doing it? Not really, but who will.

Mike, there was a time when what you are doing now was pushing boundaries

To Ashcroft and his Nazi scumbag followers, YOU are EQUAL to those envelope pushers...

These people aren't content with regulating porn, they want to eradicate it....there is a huge difference

You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...

Like I said before, it's not quite time to build that tinfoil hat yet, but you might want to keep an eye on the reynolds wrap in your kitchen...[/b][/quote]
Sykk I understand your point, that is why we have a system of checks and balances. It is not just up to Ashcroft and the few people who beleive like he does. If so we would have been gone a long time ago.

The part of being a democratic country is the leaders reflect the community - normal porn is pretty much mainstream now.

The clock cannot be turned back, technology won't let it!

[Vick]

Yippie
http://news.com.com/2010-1071-5171076.html

Complicating matters is a 1998 law called the Child Online Protection Act (COPA). It targets operators of commercial Web sites with "harmful to minors" content not behind a credit card firewall. The maximum penalty is a $50,000 fine and six months in prison.

After a federal appeals court in Philadelphia struck down COPA as a violation of free speech, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in the case last week. If the law remains on the books, it would give Taylor and his allies a disturbingly powerful new weapon in their campaign against offensive Web sites.

[cj]

hooper, you make a good point ... but without offering a solution, its just repeating the same crap that has been said in patent cases, visa issues, all the things that came before to try to destroy us ...

yeah yeah we have to band together or they will come get us all ... HOW do you get an industry full of people who don't like each other or who are just out to make a buck for themselves to do something about this? and WHAT exactly do we do?

everytime someone pops up with a solution they want money to 'fight' ... but most of the people offering to fight for 'me' with 'my' money, i've never heard of.

so, i ask again, WHAT do we do apart from complain to one another that we aren't doing anything?

[Vick]

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM
You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...


Excellent!!!

The sooner the better!

Clean up the Internet or at least what can be done from America!

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by cj@Apr 6 2004, 10:31 PM
hooper, you make a good point ... but without offering a solution, its just repeating the same crap that has been said in patent cases, visa issues, all the things that came before to try to destroy us ...

yeah yeah we have to band together or they will come get us all ... HOW do you get an industry full of people who don't like each other or who are just out to make a buck for themselves to do something about this? and WHAT exactly do we do?

everytime someone pops up with a solution they want money to 'fight' ... but most of the people offering to fight for 'me' with 'my' money, i've never heard of.

so, i ask again, WHAT do we do apart from complain to one another that we aren't doing anything?
There's a lot more we can all do locally..it doesn't have to be an industry effort...

we can start voting for changes on a local level...while a single vote might not matter in a nation-wide election, several votes on a local level can make a difference...

I don't remember who it was that said it (perhaps George Carlin) but we get the government we deserve.

In America, where it effects me, I'm glad I have a vote and a voice...however small that voice is...I'm not so sure it can make a difference nationally, but I know it can locally. So, if we get the ball rolling locally, it's a start.

This is where a lot of these Nazis will want to go after us...locally.

Imagine having to defednm any of our sites in Utah! I'm related to a good portion of that state and it's not a state I would want to be defending myself on ANY porn charge, whether it's a throatfucking site or simple single girl masturbating in nice lighting with good photography....

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Vick+Apr 6 2004, 10:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Apr 6 2004, 10:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM
You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...


Excellent!!!

The sooner the better!

Clean up the Internet or at least what can be done from America![/b][/quote]
I remember a content set I licensed from you..it had a vampire girl masturbating with a sword...I wonder what Adolf Ashcroft would think of that?
;-))))))))

[Vick]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 6 2004, 10:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 6 2004, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Vick@Apr 6 2004, 10:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM
You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...


Excellent!!!

The sooner the better!

Clean up the Internet or at least what can be done from America!
I remember a content set I licensed from you..it had a vampire girl masturbating with a sword...I wonder what Adolf Ashcroft would think of that?
;-))))))))[/b][/quote]
Producing that and purchasing it was a risk we both took :D

I have wet dreams about COPA becoming law and P2P networks getting shut down due to copyright infringements

ah to dream ........

[cj]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 6 2004, 10:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 6 2004, 10:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--cj@Apr 6 2004, 10:31 PM
hooper, you make a good point ... but without offering a solution, its just repeating the same crap that has been said in patent cases, visa issues, all the things that came before to try to destroy us ...

yeah yeah we have to band together or they will come get us all ... HOW do you get an industry full of people who don't like each other or who are just out to make a buck for themselves to do something about this? and WHAT exactly do we do?

everytime someone pops up with a solution they want money to 'fight' ... but most of the people offering to fight for 'me' with 'my' money, i've never heard of.

so, i ask again, WHAT do we do apart from complain to one another that we aren't doing anything?
There's a lot more we can all do locally..it doesn't have to be an industry effort...

we can start voting for changes on a local level...while a single vote might not matter in a nation-wide election, several votes on a local level can make a difference...

I don't remember who it was that said it (perhaps George Carlin) but we get the government we deserve.

In America, where it effects me, I'm glad I have a vote and a voice...however small that voice is...I'm not so sure it can make a difference nationally, but I know it can locally. So, if we get the ball rolling locally, it's a start.

This is where a lot of these Nazis will want to go after us...locally.

Imagine having to defednm any of our sites in Utah! I'm related to a good portion of that state and it's not a state I would want to be defending myself on ANY porn charge, whether it's a throatfucking site or simple single girl masturbating in nice lighting with good photography....[/b][/quote]
ok so you vote for someone locally who doesn't have an agenda against porn ... done that already. it doesn't seem to be helping much ...

If any australian webmasters are interested in forming a group to work with the Eros foundation (they fight porn censorship on our behalf) here in oz, please get in touch with me. The problem these guys face is that they don't know enough about the internet to know what they are defending, but they know the obscenity laws backwards and inside out and their voices are listened to in Canberra, where it counts.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by cj@Apr 6 2004, 10:31 PM
WHAT exactly do we do?
You vote for the lesser of two evils.

I'm not suggesting that we begin singing "Michel row the boat ashore", start GIA3.0 and hold hands...

i'm merely pointing out that we each (usa residents that is, when in reference to usa politics) have a voice that is counted. if you vote for an administration that is actively coming after you, vote for an administration that has no chance of winning (e.g. green party), or if you simply fail to vote at all then you are being silent.

i'm not voting the kerry ticket. i'm voting the ABB ticket. (anybody but bush).

Mike, my taxes have not changed since bush has been in office because I do not invest in the markets and do not buy hummers. As usual the bush tax cuts sound broad and imporant, but actually apply to a minority.

Why any adult provider ever voted for the party that supported the christian coahlition instead of the guy who was getting bj's under his desk will always baffle me. It seems kinda obviously self destructive.

[Carrie]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Apr 6 2004, 06:41 PM
Yes, but do you think that will deter him? Or will they just try a different location to get the elusive "vanilla" porn conviction that will get 1000 times the press coverage this successful defense will that I am sure they want to get so as to try and get a rolling snowball effect? It still costs a lot of money for people who SHOULDN'T have to be defending themselves in the first place.

I am certainly not arguing that stuff is anywhere near perfect in this biz. If they stuck to the extreme stuff I wouldn't mind it a bit.... but they aren't and people that shouldn't have to go through that kind of mess are.
Who? Where?
The only thing I've heard about *are* the extreme cases, such as Extreme Associates.
Who are the undeserving folks that shouldn't have to go through this mess because the feds aren't sticking to the fringe stuff?

[Carrie]

Hoop, with the money you make, you ARE the minority.
Bush's tax cuts are commonly bashed as being for the rich, but they're not. They've mainly benefited the lower middle-class folks which I have to assume you're above (having seen your boat, hehe).
His other tax breaks (like increasing the child credit) have greatly benefited poor folks - again which you're not.
Don't assume that his cuts/breaks only affect a minority because you yourself were not affected.

LOL@CJ concluding that Ashcroft is bored shitless.

Sykk the constant name-calling of modern-day Christians as "Nazis" and "Nazi scumbags" is ridiculous. I don't see any Christians rounding up herds of people and marching them off to gas chambers or using them as test subjects for horrific surgery experiments.
To equate one with the other - well - you *sure* you haven't opened up that Reynolds box?

This quote was interesting:
He said pornography "invades our homes persistently though the mail, phone, VCR, cable TV and the Internet," and has "strewn its victims from coast to coast."

Victims? Invasion?
Last I checked, I had to pay money to have pornographic mail sent to me. I've never had anyone call me up unsolicited and start talking dirty to me except for my boyfriends in my younger years and my hubby once in a blue moon nowadays. A VCR can only work if YOU put something into it, yes? It can't just turn itself on and start blaring porn at you can it? Same thing with cable tv as the mail - you gotta pay to see anything (although the scrambled channels do have fleeting moments of near clarity for two seconds at a time if you really like your porn to be psychadelically colored and at a vertical slant).
The only thing I see there that is not victimless is the Internet, where people *do* get bombarded with unasked-for porn in their email and graphic language anytime they do an innocent search at Google. It's still hard as hell to "accidentally" end up on a porn site, unless you're a total fucking dolt (which admittedly, many people are), but the porn is coming at us from other directions than just sites we visit voluntarily.
If this man thinks that all 5 of these things are "persistently invading victims" who just want to live their life porn-free, he needs a dose of something. Perhaps reality?

[Carrie]

Btw, I think it will take something a bit bigger than a scalpel to rid us of TGPs and free porn for the masses.
It's going to be a loooooong time (perhaps never) before people *have* to fork over money to see hardcore on the internet again.

[cj]

Originally posted by Carrie@Apr 7 2004, 02:12 AM
Btw, I think it will take something a bit bigger than a scalpel to rid us of TGPs and free porn for the masses.
It's going to be a loooooong time (perhaps never) before people *have* to fork over money to see hardcore on the internet again.
Carrie, you know how sponsors started offering hosted galleries? and that all most tgp webmasters do these days is submit to each others tgp's?

give it a year and the only free galleries available will be the ones sponsors provide themselves, and a few professional tgp webmasters who will make private deals with their sponsors.

sponsors have their own ...

hosting
domains
traffic
content
employees

what makes you think 19 year old tgp webmaster can compete with sponsors who build and submit their own galleries without paying a webmaster 80% of the income?

sponsors with their own traffic have always survived through competitive times - the 'new era' is no different. look around at the number of sponsors getting into hosted galleries - the next step is to just remove affiliate links ....

TGP webmasters won't be around much longer - there will be nobody paying them for their traffic!

[cj]

Originally posted by Hooper+Apr 7 2004, 12:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hooper @ Apr 7 2004, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--cj@Apr 6 2004, 10:31 PM
WHAT exactly do we do?
You vote for the lesser of two evils.

I'm not suggesting that we begin singing "Michel row the boat ashore", start GIA3.0 and hold hands...

i'm merely pointing out that we each (usa residents that is, when in reference to usa politics) have a voice that is counted. if you vote for an administration that is actively coming after you, vote for an administration that has no chance of winning (e.g. green party), or if you simply fail to vote at all then you are being silent.

i'm not voting the kerry ticket. i'm voting the ABB ticket. (anybody but bush).

Mike, my taxes have not changed since bush has been in office because I do not invest in the markets and do not buy hummers. As usual the bush tax cuts sound broad and imporant, but actually apply to a minority.

Why any adult provider ever voted for the party that supported the christian coahlition instead of the guy who was getting bj's under his desk will always baffle me. It seems kinda obviously self destructive.[/b][/quote]
if i had've known you would turn it into a political lecture & vote gathering exercise I wouldn't have asked ... LOL

I'd love to vote in the US election, but I have enough trouble remembering when our own elections are ;-)))

unfortunately, I think you are dreaming if you think that one party or the other is going to make a difference. There will always be some jesus freak politician, local or federal, who wants to make a name for himself & will use the anything controversial to do so ...

we are the controversy baby, and if you want to play in a controversial industry, get used to it! Be prepared to be dragged through mud and fight for your freedom at every turn - and still keep your head up doing it.

If anyone has a better suggestion ... i'm all ears!

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Vick+Apr 6 2004, 10:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Apr 6 2004, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by -Vick@Apr 6 2004, 10:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM
You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...


Excellent!!!

The sooner the better!

Clean up the Internet or at least what can be done from America!
I remember a content set I licensed from you..it had a vampire girl masturbating with a sword...I wonder what Adolf Ashcroft would think of that?
;-))))))))
Producing that and purchasing it was a risk we both took :D

I have wet dreams about COPA becoming law and P2P networks getting shut down due to copyright infringements

ah to dream ........[/b][/quote]
Vick....p2p is a nice delivery system. Ive made some easy cah a couple of years with oxcash using that alone!

[PornoDoggy]

Stayed out of this one as long as I could :D

SykkBoy ... don't you know the rules by now? Calling a right winger a Nazi is bad. Questioning the patriotisim of an American who does not think that the right is right is good.

To those of you who believe that the likes of Ashcroft will eliminate your competition - read the Niemoller quote. Read it again. Now, read it one more time. For those of you under the delusion that porn is mainstream and unassailable, take a gander at some of the silent films made in the late teens and early 20s of the last century, then read up on the Hays Committee and see what kind of crap was allowed in film for the next 30 years. Oh, yeah, and read the Niemoller quote again, then find me the one from Ashcroft that says right wing pornographers will be exempt from prosecution.

Ashcroft will be gone - hopefully next January. What scares me more than Ashcroft is the judges that Bush appoints. If Bill Clinton had attempted to appoint anyone as far left as Bush's recess appointments were to the right, Al Gore would have won simply by virtue of the number of Republicans, some of whom post on this board, who would've stroked out over their anger.

I'm not sure exactly how anyone can say with a straight face that "constant name-calling of modern-day Christians as "Nazis" and "Nazi scumbags"" is a common problem today. I have heard the term "nazi" applied to Ashcroft and his minions ... but these are the same sorts of people who believe that God allowed 9/11 to happen because of the rampant pornography and homosexuality in modern society. Quite frankly, there are a lot of the more extreme right wing elements of society - the McVeigh types - who describe themselves as Christians, and they fucking ARE Nazis.

Might be a bit of rhetorical overkill, but hardly inconsistant with the normal level of political discourse in this country, where it's not uncommon to have the patriotism of someone questioned because they don't support the agenda of the right. Certainly nothing to get your panties in a knot over ... but then, I'm a liberal left wing believer in an individual adult's right to date (or fuck) whoever they want in whatever way they want - regardless of gender, religion, race, color, creed, or political affiliation.

Carrie ... your confusion over the individual who made statements like "said pornography "invades our homes persistently though the mail, phone, VCR, cable TV and the Internet," and has "strewn its victims from coast to coast."

should have been your first clue that you and he aren't speaking the same language. The guy in charge of hiring the people who will investigate what is pornographic would not dance with his wife at his own innaguration as Governor of Missouri because it was a sin. Now, even in your position as Chairperson of the Wiccan Defenders of Evangelical Christians, do you not see a potential problem here? These are people who quite frankly would label the Maidenform ad in Ladies Home Journal as pornographic. These are people who would like nothing better than to go back to racy television being an episode that puts Ricky and Luci in their seperate twin beds.

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Apr 6 2004, 02:53 PM
feds, go for the head!!!!
Yes, and that is scary, since a major part of the adult internet business today only passes thru a handful of companies... with a well coordinated raid they could really hurt porn on the internet - they might not get rid of it, but it would leave a "shock and awe" effect.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Vick@Apr 6 2004, 09:34 PM
Please Keep Ashcroft

Online porn seriously needs to be cracked down upon and cleaned up

NO FREE PORN ACCESSIBLE TO MINORS

GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
Vick, correct as usual.
Prohibitions create opportunities of Biblical proportions.

[OldJeff]

The Asshole leading the charge (Asscroft) has been quoted as saying "pornography has no place in a decent society" and ordered the covering of a marble breast.

The scalpal they use will be oddly shapped like a chainsaw.

Fundamentalist Christians are more dangerous to this country than Fundamentalist Muslims are, they both want to destroy our way of life and replace it with the rule of "God"

The only difference is the Christians are not using bombs (except for guys like Mc Veigh).

Christ we need to ban religion

[cj]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Apr 7 2004, 05:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Apr 7 2004, 05:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Apr 6 2004, 09:34 PM
Please Keep Ashcroft

Online porn seriously needs to be cracked down upon and cleaned up

NO FREE PORN ACCESSIBLE TO MINORS

GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
GO ASHCROFT!!!
Vick, correct as usual.
Prohibitions create opportunities of Biblical proportions.[/b][/quote]
*excited nodding*
:purpdance:

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Apr 6 2004, 09:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Apr 6 2004, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -JR@Apr 6 2004, 09:22 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--TheEnforcer@Apr 6 2004, 06:05 PM
You already provided that right in this thread Mike.
oooh oooh its like a political riddle!

:rokk:
The article only mentions a few instances.

Hardly a epidemic.[/b][/quote]
But the war has just begun and there stated intention is to go after EVERYONE. What program doesn't have content that matches that which they tried to prosecute there?

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Vick+Apr 6 2004, 10:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Apr 6 2004, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by -Vick@Apr 6 2004, 10:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM
You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...


Excellent!!!

The sooner the better!

Clean up the Internet or at least what can be done from America!
I remember a content set I licensed from you..it had a vampire girl masturbating with a sword...I wonder what Adolf Ashcroft would think of that?
;-))))))))
Producing that and purchasing it was a risk we both took :D

I have wet dreams about COPA becoming law and P2P networks getting shut down due to copyright infringements

ah to dream ........[/b][/quote]
It always disturbs me when people put profit before freedom. There are always new ways to make money. Freedom, once taken away, is nearly impossible to get back and yielding it only encourages far more freedom to be taken away.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Carrie+Apr 7 2004, 01:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Carrie @ Apr 7 2004, 01:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--TheEnforcer@Apr 6 2004, 06:41 PM
Yes, but do you think that will deter him? Or will they just try a different location to get the elusive "vanilla" porn conviction that will get 1000 times the press coverage this successful defense will that I am sure they want to get so as to try and get a rolling snowball effect? It still costs a lot of money for people who SHOULDN'T have to be defending themselves in the first place.

I am certainly not arguing that stuff is anywhere near perfect in this biz. If they stuck to the extreme stuff I wouldn't mind it a bit.... but they aren't and people that shouldn't have to go through that kind of mess are.
Who? Where?
The only thing I've heard about *are* the extreme cases, such as Extreme Associates.
Who are the undeserving folks that shouldn't have to go through this mess because the feds aren't sticking to the fringe stuff?[/b][/quote]
Mike cited it right in his article. Group sex, anal sex, and sex with objects were the type of porn they went after. They lost on getting a prosecution but still had to spend a shitload of money to defend themselves.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Carrie@Apr 7 2004, 02:08 AM
Hoop, with the money you make, you ARE the minority.
Bush's tax cuts are commonly bashed as being for the rich, but they're not. They've mainly benefited the lower middle-class folks which I have to assume you're above (having seen your boat, hehe).
His other tax breaks (like increasing the child credit) have greatly benefited poor folks - again which you're not.
Don't assume that his cuts/breaks only affect a minority because you yourself were not affected.
Carrie,

Most of bush's tax cuts have affected fewer than 100k people/homes. They sound nice, they sound like they benefit the middle class, but they have very little real world impact.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Hooper+Apr 7 2004, 09:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hooper @ Apr 7 2004, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Apr 7 2004, 02:08 AM
Hoop, with the money you make, you ARE the minority.
Bush's tax cuts are commonly bashed as being for the rich, but they're not. They've mainly benefited the lower middle-class folks which I have to assume you're above (having seen your boat, hehe).
His other tax breaks (like increasing the child credit) have greatly benefited poor folks - again which you're not.
Don't assume that his cuts/breaks only affect a minority because you yourself were not affected.
Carrie,

Most of bush's tax cuts have affected fewer than 100k people/homes. They sound nice, they sound like they benefit the middle class, but they have very little real world impact.[/b][/quote]
Hooper you are either ignorant, or your CPA is ripping you off.

The top federal INCOME tax braket was dropped by 4%. Remembering a psot awhile back stating you were a millionaire, that would leave me to beleive you make at least 1 million in income a year.

A 4% break over 1 million is..... 40k. So if you are not happy with this, instead of being a hypocrite why don't you send this amount to the Federal Gov't since you seem to think they know what to with your money better then you do!

You are a just a skinnier, more business savy Meni. Though I hear Meni is coming out with some spyware programs soon!

[Vick]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Apr 7 2004, 08:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Apr 7 2004, 08:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Vick@Apr 6 2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by -SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by -Vick@Apr 6 2004, 10:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM
You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...


Excellent!!!

The sooner the better!

Clean up the Internet or at least what can be done from America!
I remember a content set I licensed from you..it had a vampire girl masturbating with a sword...I wonder what Adolf Ashcroft would think of that?
;-))))))))
Producing that and purchasing it was a risk we both took :D

I have wet dreams about COPA becoming law and P2P networks getting shut down due to copyright infringements

ah to dream ........
It always disturbs me when people put profit before freedom. There are always new ways to make money. Freedom, once taken away, is nearly impossible to get back and yielding it only encourages far more freedom to be taken away.[/b][/quote]
profits = Freedom $$$ = Freedom

The more $ I earn the more Freedom I have (to do as I please)


Also as I often state the moral pendulum swings back and forth, for every Ashcroft there is a ACLU to keep things in balance

If you think COPA being law wouldn't increase profits I disagree

TGP webmasters aren't the challenge as much as TGP sites are (and some of that crowd looks to care more about counter numbners than $)
Put yourself in the shoes of average Joe Pornsurfer, he see thousands upon thousands of free pics and think why should he pay for anything, he feels he is getting ripped off paying for anything when all this material is available free

So as an owner of paysites have to make sure Joe Pornsurfer knows all the extra things I offer .......

The best quality images and girls, all the images of a set in high quality, tons of full length videos, Erotic stories, arcade games, Live Video on and on ad nauseum......

and it's still a tough sell

Bring on Ashcroft and COPA!!

[RawAlex]

Mike, why do you have to sink to name calling all the time now? Are you lacking in any good response to the points mentioned?

Assclown will go for all porn. The site of the naked breast(s) on the "justice is blind" statue located in the room where he would give press confernces was enough to merit a cover. This man thinks all porn, even the softest "nudes" to be an offence to god, thus to him, and thus to all american people.

Mike, every one of your amateur sites where the girl is playing with a toy is more than enough for him.

You are a pornographer. The Bush administration is actively anti-porn. Not "porn is bad, m'kay" but "were are coming for you, your going to rot in hell or the worst jails we can find you perverts!". They have actively spent time and money to hire people and get ready to attack.

I think I know what their trigger is going to be... what their excuse will be. The Surpreme court will soon rule (once again) that COPA II isn't constitutional. Assclown will come out and say how horrible it is, and then start arresting people for all sorts of things, trying to get something to stick. They will certainly go after stuff that is more extreme, but I am also sure they will go for every major player / company in online porn looking for ways to screw everything up. As an interrelated and heavily cross dependant industry, removing the major paychecks for even a few weeks would pretty much put most people out of business. Imagine the top 5 or 10 programs with their bank accounts frozen and their offices closed "during investigation". Every one of their servers seized and shut off... imagine companies like CCBill and Ibill seized for aiding and abetting the illegal distribution of porn? I don't say the charges would stick, but you can see how easy it is for one man with a bad temper and no tolerance to screw things up.

cj: The interesting thing about sponsor galleries is that the sponsors end up directly responsible for the distribution of free porn. They then start to expose themselves to much higher legal risks in assclown land.

Alex

[Vick]

Alex - if you scenario is correct does it make more sense for Ashcroft to try to get arrests and prosecute little guys instead of large companies?

Smaller operations that don't have the resources to wager a legal fight?

Get a few successful convictions before going after the big guys, setting a president

VOTE BUSH IN '04
KEEP ASHCROFT
INCREASE PROFITS!!!

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 7 2004, 10:12 AM
Mike, why do you have to sink to name calling all the time now? Are you lacking in any good response to the points mentioned?

Assclown will go for all porn. The site of the naked breast(s) on the "justice is blind" statue located in the room where he would give press confernces was enough to merit a cover. This man thinks all porn, even the softest "nudes" to be an offence to god, thus to him, and thus to all american people.

Mike, every one of your amateur sites where the girl is playing with a toy is more than enough for him.

You are a pornographer. The Bush administration is actively anti-porn. Not "porn is bad, m'kay" but "were are coming for you, your going to rot in hell or the worst jails we can find you perverts!". They have actively spent time and money to hire people and get ready to attack.

I think I know what their trigger is going to be... what their excuse will be. The Surpreme court will soon rule (once again) that COPA II isn't constitutional. Assclown will come out and say how horrible it is, and then start arresting people for all sorts of things, trying to get something to stick. They will certainly go after stuff that is more extreme, but I am also sure they will go for every major player / company in online porn looking for ways to screw everything up. As an interrelated and heavily cross dependant industry, removing the major paychecks for even a few weeks would pretty much put most people out of business. Imagine the top 5 or 10 programs with their bank accounts frozen and their offices closed "during investigation". Every one of their servers seized and shut off... imagine companies like CCBill and Ibill seized for aiding and abetting the illegal distribution of porn? I don't say the charges would stick, but you can see how easy it is for one man with a bad temper and no tolerance to screw things up.

cj: The interesting thing about sponsor galleries is that the sponsors end up directly responsible for the distribution of free porn. They then start to expose themselves to much higher legal risks in assclown land.

Alex


Alex, I understand that ALL politicans are anti-porn, at least publicly and they will scape goat us if it benefits them.

My only point is the vast crackdown predicted by many from Ashcroft has never appeared.

As far as names, they either fit with Hoop or he is telling a fib, because the tax breaks Bush passed were for INCOME. I am almost finished my taxs, and I have seen what the cuts did for my tax bill. I am sure Hooper makes more then I do, so he saved even more.

[RawAlex]

Vick: Assclown don't want sucessful prosecutions, those aren't needed. All they want to do is send a chill. What better chill than to stop the flow of cash? Even 15 days would be enough to throw this industry into a tailspin. Even with the best of lawyers, it could take months to undo seizure notices on servers, content, etc. Imagine being required to provide 2257 documentation for every single image on every single server. Even with a while team and excellent records, you would still be looking at weeks of work.

More importantly, imagine that the processing companies get dragged into it, RICO charges, whatever. Suddenly they get raided, shut down, all servers seized... even if the charges don't stick, the onlien porn industry would be damaged for many years to come.

Mike: Assclown has hired the man. He has made an attempt on COPA. This is all timed to be a major offensive leading up to the election. We should start a pool on the day it will start. It will come, this year, before the elections. Maybe right after Miami show? The feds could drop in there, act like porn people, collect business cards, names, and such. People brag all sorts shit at parties.

As for taxes, well, I am Canadian, so I can't comment.

Alex

[JR]

FREE BUSH

vote Democrat 04'

[Vick]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 7 2004, 10:47 AM
Vick: Assclown don't want sucessful prosecutions, those aren't needed. All they want to do is send a chill. What better chill than to stop the flow of cash? Even 15 days would be enough to throw this industry into a tailspin. Even with the best of lawyers, it could take months to undo seizure notices on servers, content, etc. Imagine being required to provide 2257 documentation for every single image on every single server. Even with a while team and excellent records, you would still be looking at weeks of work.

More importantly, imagine that the processing companies get dragged into it, RICO charges, whatever. Suddenly they get raided, shut down, all servers seized... even if the charges don't stick, the onlien porn industry would be damaged for many years to come.

Alex - If that's what it takes ......

The industry is in pain already, there is going to be more pain one way or another

I'd rather have it quick then this dragged out attrition we've seen over the past few years

That being said, on a personal level I don't want to see anyone lose their livelihood

but on a business level ...... Bring it and quick!

Nothing personal, just business


VOTE BUSH IN '04
KEEP ASHCROFT
INCREASE PROFITS!!!

[OldJeff]

I think quite a few people are missing the point of the article.

Obscenity prossecutions have nothing to do with free, pay, accessible by minors, or any of the "good things" that have been pointed out.

Every obscenity prossecution that has ever happened in the US has been for distributing to paying adults.

They will haul whoever they feel like into court in "Tight Ass Utah" (a fictional town in the middle of God land) and throw your ass in jail for a couple lifetimes.

The ONLY reason they have not happened is 9/11, and getting the WMD's in Iraq.

Yes they will start with the most extreme stuff to build a caseload, but John Asshat will noty stop untill

A. - He is out of office (which I pray for every day)
B. - Adult material can not be purchased in the US

And yes I still pray for this clown's death

[JR]

Originally posted by OldJeff@Apr 7 2004, 08:06 AM


Yes they will start with the most extreme stuff to build a caseload, but John Asshat will noty stop untill

A. - He is out of office (which I pray for every day)
B. - Adult material can not be purchased in the US

And yes I still pray for this clown's death
your nuts.

you guys are kidding yourselves if you think politicians are going to go berzerk this way. wont happen.

look at how much problem the government has had in trying to legislate something to fight child porn. we do have a legal system that works quite well you know?

[JR]

and what is the connection to John Ashcroft and Iraq? there isn't one. Iraq is not stopping Ashcroft from prosecuting anyone.

[Vick]

Originally posted by OldJeff@Apr 7 2004, 11:06 AM
Obscenity prossecutions have nothing to do with free, pay, accessible by minors, or any of the "good things" that have been pointed out.
I'll respectfully disagree with you on that point


If Obscenity prosecutions started for on line porn watch everyone put hard material behind age checks of some sort, even if the obscenity prosecution was about something that was paid for material

Don't you think praying for Ashcroft's death is a bit ironic? :yowsa: maybe even a delicious irony


Yes I know it's a fantasy but I still root for COPA to become law


VOTE BUSH IN '04
KEEP ASHCROFT
INCREASE PROFITS!!!
Nothing personal, just business

[Sharpie]

The Feds normal mode of operation is to go after and disrupt the lines of distribution. Midsize is uaually a good target. They usually don't have the big bucks to fight it & so they MAKE DEALS..... The Feds don't even have to really make their case. Just intimidate enough to make their point. They love to use medium size players that they think have information, that will help them up the line. Their biggest tool is INTIMIDATION.... and people fall for it.

This industry still needs a lot of cleaning up, that is a given. But, will they stop there? That is the big question. They haven't eradicated 'kitty porn yet - so why are they diluting their efforts to go after legal porn? I think they shoud finish the job they set out to do there, before moving on.

As far as spam - it seems that the porn companies honor the 'do not send a lot more than the people peddling meds.......The mainstream companies spam in my mailbox is about 10 to 1. They constantly misspell to get by the filters. Why in the world would companies continue to spam people who are not the least bit interested in their products? NO - I don't want to enlarge my penis.... :-)

[Peaches]

Once you start talking about "vanilla porn" we are SO far down the totem pole as far as big targets.

ATT, GE, HBO, etc. all do millions more in traffic than we can dream of. Will Ashcroft go after them? Doubtful. Worrying about actual prosecution at the federal level for anything "vanilla" is premature, IMHO.

[Hooper]

I havent done my taxes yet this year Mike, we generally file an extension and file in October, so I havent seen the tax break yet. You may very well be right. I wasnt saying that there were no "for the rich" tax breaks, I was pointing out that most of his "for the poor & middle" breaks affected so few people that they were virtually pointless.

In any case, the meni comment wasnt necessary, i'll be over at weasel's board if you need me.

[Hooper]

Before I go I will also point out that while we are busy softening up all our tours (see http://www.annsxxx.com ) and eliminating the highest risk sites (we killed our weird no hand guy site a few weeks ago) during an audit by our first ammendment attorneys they noted that whats in your members area can get you an obscenity prosecution just as well as your tours can.

Basically the difference is that if it's on the tour you are full well providing the content to people who have not yet even made an attempt to verify their age... which is copa grounds + obscenity grounds.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 7 2004, 11:49 AM
I havent done my taxes yet this year Mike, we generally file an extension and file in October, so I havent seen the tax break yet. You may very well be right. I wasnt saying that there were no "for the rich" tax breaks, I was pointing out that most of his "for the poor & middle" breaks affected so few people that they were virtually pointless.

In any case, the meni comment wasnt necessary, i'll be over at weasel's board if you need me.
Your post on taxs was as ignorant as Meni's posts.... you were called on it. You should be pepaired to defend your posts, especially when they are filled with wrong information.

My posts on Oprano are made as me personally, not as an owner of Oprano. I could have easily flamed you on a dozen other boards, would you leave them as well? If you want to head to a board where everyone pats you on the back, and says "you the man" on every post, enjoy.

First and formost Oprano is a no-spin zone.... if you cannot handle it, well you know the rest.

:D

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Hooper@Apr 7 2004, 11:52 AM
Before I go I will also point out that while we are busy softening up all our tours (see http://www.annsxxx.com ) and eliminating the highest risk sites (we killed our weird no hand guy site a few weeks ago) during an audit by our first ammendment attorneys they noted that whats in your members area can get you an obscenity prosecution just as well as your tours can.

Basically the difference is that if it's on the tour you are full well providing the content to people who have not yet even made an attempt to verify their age... which is copa grounds + obscenity grounds.
Knowing where you content is from, and making sure that all the paperwork is in order is a EXTREMELY good point.

There are a lot of people out there cranking out content who do not have proper paperwork on. Many times it is just sloppyness, other times its intentional.

This is a problem not only in dealing with criminal issues with the feds, but also potential civil suits as well.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Vick+Apr 7 2004, 10:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Apr 7 2004, 10:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -TheEnforcer@Apr 7 2004, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by -Vick@Apr 6 2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by -SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by -Vick@Apr 6 2004, 10:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Apr 6 2004, 10:25 PM
You think people like this will stop with Steve Sweet or Rob Zicari? After they get rid of the "extreme" they are going to go after bondage porn, then gay porn, then interracial porn and so on...


Excellent!!!

The sooner the better!

Clean up the Internet or at least what can be done from America!
I remember a content set I licensed from you..it had a vampire girl masturbating with a sword...I wonder what Adolf Ashcroft would think of that?
;-))))))))
Producing that and purchasing it was a risk we both took :D

I have wet dreams about COPA becoming law and P2P networks getting shut down due to copyright infringements

ah to dream ........
It always disturbs me when people put profit before freedom. There are always new ways to make money. Freedom, once taken away, is nearly impossible to get back and yielding it only encourages far more freedom to be taken away.
profits = Freedom $$$ = Freedom

The more $ I earn the more Freedom I have (to do as I please)


Also as I often state the moral pendulum swings back and forth, for every Ashcroft there is a ACLU to keep things in balance

If you think COPA being law wouldn't increase profits I disagree

TGP webmasters aren't the challenge as much as TGP sites are (and some of that crowd looks to care more about counter numbners than $)
Put yourself in the shoes of average Joe Pornsurfer, he see thousands upon thousands of free pics and think why should he pay for anything, he feels he is getting ripped off paying for anything when all this material is available free

So as an owner of paysites have to make sure Joe Pornsurfer knows all the extra things I offer .......

The best quality images and girls, all the images of a set in high quality, tons of full length videos, Erotic stories, arcade games, Live Video on and on ad nauseum......

and it's still a tough sell

Bring on Ashcroft and COPA!![/b][/quote]
I never said a thing about COPA not increasing profits. I said freedom is more important to me than profits because there is ALWAYS another way to make profits.

[*KK*]

My personal hope is that someone like Blacks on Blondes gets hit with the first 'vanilla' porn prosecution.

Would be nice to see the ACLU or NAACP jump in and fight with us.

[Vick]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Apr 7 2004, 01:13 PM
I never said a thing about COPA not increasing profits. I said freedom is more important to me than profits because there is ALWAYS another way to make profits.
and I say PROFITS ARE FREEDOM!!!!

Strike a blow for Freedom

EARN MORE $$$$

[dantheman]

interesting blog (http://www.lt-smash.us/) read the first item and then the reponses : )

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by dantheman@Apr 7 2004, 01:29 PM
interesting blog (http://www.lt-smash.us/) read the first item and then the reponses : )
Interesting reading Dan. Not only on porn but Iraq as well.

[dantheman]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Apr 7 2004, 02:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Apr 7 2004, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--dantheman@Apr 7 2004, 01:29 PM
interesting blog (http://www.lt-smash.us/) read the first item and then the reponses : )
Interesting reading Dan. Not only on porn but Iraq as well.[/b][/quote]
yes it is, I read and keep up with several blogs from people who have had or has boots on the ground. Those are the ones that know what's going on there. Everyone else just states thier thougths without much info to back it up except whatever "news" channell they subscribe to : ))

[Feynman]

1- I'm wondering about the economics of a crackdown.

The russians are pumping more and more stuff, of more and more quality than the local outfits seems able to keep pace with.

Then, it'll be south east asia.

So what does Ashcroft thinks he'll be saving victimized viewers from ?

The ONLY way to control porn is to control what's circulating on the net, a big filtering proxy server for the whole nation.

They do it in China.

A study done on the topic of censorship in China, conducted mainly by phoning local modems ISP's in China and surfing for various stuff showed that 90% of the porn was available but that they blocked most news sites, Google, other search engines, sites about science, medicine, politics, etc.

What did you Ben Franklin said ? That those willing to trade liberty for safety will get (or deserve?) none in the end ?




Last edited by Feynman at Apr 8 2004, 08:50 PM