How I long for enlightened times

[Vick]

Rant time ......

As long as the human condition clings to the superstition of an all powerful, all mighty, all seeing, all knowing entity/supreme being we will continue to subject ourselves to living in the dark ages

Until we disencumber ourselves from this obstacle we can not move forward to an age of enlightenment

How many have died, how many have suffered, how many more in the name of Gods?

Cultural differences are one thing, how many painful/negative divides are caused by beliefs in non existent beings?

In the name of Allah, in the name of God, in the name of Rahway ......
all amount to battle cries

Opiate for the masses, a means of control .... I don't know

Here in the USA we have divides caused by religon...... strip away religion and what becomes of the divides?????

Consider that on a global scale .........





and don't even get me started on the missed potential of the Internet, the greatest information/communication tool in our time and what did we do......

.... turned it into a flea market
(don't think so, check out the spam you get every day)


/rant



Last edited by Vick at Mar 29 2004, 10:00 PM

[Winetalk.com]

flea market is good, Rome haven't been built overnite...

with money in the pocket is much easier to kill the _divides_
;-))))

[Vick]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Mar 29 2004, 11:25 PM
with money in the pocket is much easier to kill the _divides_
;-))))
Touche'

Good point

Had to rant and get it off my chest, now I feel better he he he


well that and a few glasses of wine :stout:

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Vick+Mar 30 2004, 12:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Mar 30 2004, 12:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Mar 29 2004, 11:25 PM
with money in the pocket is much easier to kill the _divides_
;-))))
Touche'

Good point

Had to rant and get it off my chest, now I feel better he he he


well that and a few glasses of wine :stout:[/b][/quote]
wine....I miss the good stuff, UK is a beer lover paradise
;-))))

[Mike AI]

Vick there will always be divides, religion just happens to be one of the most common. But others are ethnicity, social status, gender, etc...

Religion in and of itself is not a bad thing, its Human's using religion to manipulate people that is the problem...

[Vick]

Mike - the concept of Gods just blows me away

Who would have ever thought of an all knowing being? That we are reincarnated? Plus all the other mind blowing, bizarre concepts that are put forth in the name of religions and gods (yeah a guy was born of a virgin birth and nailed to a cross .... all for his followers, sure, yeah right)

Just the most absurd thing ......

I can understand why ancient Greeks and Romans (and other cultures) had mythology. They had no way to explain why the sun came up every day and so on

We live in an age of science and still cling to superstition

Totally amazes me

[JR]

how many "ages of enlightenment" has there been throughout history?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 30 2004, 12:55 PM
We live in an age of science and still cling to superstition

Totally amazes me
In all honesty, it's easier for me to believe in God than it is to believe that a star I'm looking at in the sky stopped existing millions of light years ago. :P

[Vick]

Originally posted by JR@Mar 30 2004, 11:59 AM
how many "ages of enlightenment" has there been throughout history?
Truly none :(

[JR]

Originally posted by Peaches+Mar 30 2004, 08:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Mar 30 2004, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 30 2004, 12:55 PM
We live in an age of science and still cling to superstition

Totally amazes me
In all honesty, it's easier for me to believe in God than it is to believe that a star I'm looking at in the sky stopped existing millions of light years ago. :P[/b][/quote]
the idea of an all powerful, invisible and mysterious ghost who allegedly had his own kid tortured and nailed to a piece of wood to die because others were bad people, makes more sense than physics and math?

[Vick]

Peaches - you find it easier to believe in something you can't see nor qualify, somethings that causes masses to live in ignorance and fear?


You can see the star, you can't see gods

- but you can see the numbers who have killed, died or been harmed by these ridiculous superstitions


Just the concept amazes me, that people feel the need to cling to these outdated superstitions is amazing to me

[Peaches]

Just tellin' ya how I feel - when I'm being told something I can see doesn't exist, it doesn't make any more sense to me than telling me something I can't see does exist. :awinky:

[el pres]

Originally posted by JR+Mar 30 2004, 12:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Mar 30 2004, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Mar 30 2004, 08:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 30 2004, 12:55 PM
We live in an age of science and still cling to superstition

Totally amazes me
In all honesty, it's easier for me to believe in God than it is to believe that a star I'm looking at in the sky stopped existing millions of light years ago. :P
the idea of an all powerful, invisible and mysterious ghost who allegedly had his own kid tortured and nailed to a piece of wood to die because others were bad people, makes more sense than physics and math?[/b][/quote]
Nope, but it makes a good film.

[Vick]

Originally posted by el pres+Mar 30 2004, 12:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (el pres @ Mar 30 2004, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -JR@Mar 30 2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by -Peaches@Mar 30 2004, 08:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 30 2004, 12:55 PM
We live in an age of science and still cling to superstition

Totally amazes me
In all honesty, it's easier for me to believe in God than it is to believe that a star I'm looking at in the sky stopped existing millions of light years ago. :P
the idea of an all powerful, invisible and mysterious ghost who allegedly had his own kid tortured and nailed to a piece of wood to die because others were bad people, makes more sense than physics and math?
Nope, but it makes a good film.[/b][/quote]
to be watched with a plate of spaghetti and a nice Chianti? :D

[aeon]

Originally posted by JR+Mar 30 2004, 09:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Mar 30 2004, 09:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Mar 30 2004, 08:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 30 2004, 12:55 PM
We live in an age of science and still cling to superstition

Totally amazes me
In all honesty, it's easier for me to believe in God than it is to believe that a star I'm looking at in the sky stopped existing millions of light years ago. :P
the idea of an all powerful, invisible and mysterious ghost who allegedly had his own kid tortured and nailed to a piece of wood to die because others were bad people, makes more sense than physics and math?[/b][/quote]
At the root it's the same. Show me this metaphysical concept of causation. All I see is one phenomenon followed by another. Hume, one of the most ardent empiricists, shot himself in the foot by being an honest empiricist in An Inquiry Concerning Human Understanding: Section 7 and his ad hoc revision fails miserably to address the problem concerning this "belief in causation". Without that faith, science crumbles.

Intersubjectivity isn't fact, regardless of whether it's shrouded in religious or scientific jargon. Science has committed it's own atrocities, but the science cult will say it wasn't science, it was people's use of science...sounds strikingly familiar.

[chodadog]

How many people truly understand the Big Bang theory? Not fucking many, i say. I don't. It makes about as much sense to me as any bible thumpin' moron. I believe in a god. Any more than that, i don't know.

What was before the big bang? And what was before that? Whatever it was, it's about as believeable as some omnipotent being. Like i said, i believe in a god. I don't see the bible, or the torah, or the quran as the word of god. I don't think god is some dude with a long beard and perfect teeth.

For all i know, he/she/it could be whatever was responsible for whatever caused the big bang, and so on.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 30 2004, 12:07 PM
when I'm being told something I can see doesn't exist, it doesn't make any more sense to me than telling me something I can't see does exist. :awinky:
That could also work in a "do sponsors shave?" thread. :P

[Vick]

aeon - I can't agree, some scientific discoveries are verifiable fact, none of religion is verifiable fact (it's an over simplification but you understand).

Can't lump science with religion no matter how you slice it
Science tries to understand, to offer solid, factual proofs and doesn't ask for blind faith and is open to change


chodadog - at this point the big bang is a theory, just that.


Basically we are carbon based life forms that happened to evolve in a water belt. Just a cosmic roll of the dice

I can't believe that some all knowing, all powerful being expects us to live our life by decrees handed down by man

Life after death, yeah right. You die, you're worm food

Nail a guy born of a virgin to a cross and it supposed to be a good thing - un huh

Women are supposed to be repressed and forced to cover themselves from head to toe - no way
A woman is the most beautiful creation in nature, there is no way they should have to suffer a decree that disallows them to share their beauty

[Carrie]

Physics and math cannot explain things such as:

- ghosts
- objects moving on their own
- people hearing relative's voices telling them to hit the brakes mere seconds before they'd have been plowed under by a dump truck
- one person seeing a ghost in a certain spot, and another person moving into that spot feels as if they've just walked into a freezer
-The most innocent people are children, yes?
What do you do when your child says a phrase that your grandmother used to say all the time, but she died before he was born, and when you ask him who taught him that phrase, he says "Grandma did!"
Ask him if he means *his* grandma, the one that lives with Papap, and he says "No, *your* grandma, the one with glasses!"

Yes, all of those have happened to me.
No, I'm not crazy.

[Vick]

Originally posted by Carrie@Mar 30 2004, 01:18 PM
Physics and math cannot explain things such as:

- ghosts
- objects moving on their own
- people hearing relative's voices telling them to hit the brakes mere seconds before they'd have been plowed under by a dump truck
- one person seeing a ghost in a certain spot, and another person moving into that spot feels as if they've just walked into a freezer
-The most innocent people are children, yes?
What do you do when your child says a phrase that your grandmother used to say all the time, but she died before he was born, and when you ask him who taught him that phrase, he says "Grandma did!"
Ask him if he means *his* grandma, the one that lives with Papap, and he says "No, *your* grandma, the one with glasses!"

Yes, all of those have happened to me.
No, I'm not crazy.
Please show me a ghost

I've been ghost hunting, haven't seen one yet.

I'll continue to search for ghosts


As for objects moving on their own, I'm an illusionist, what would you like me to move?

Want to see me bend a nail with just the power of my mind. I'll let you examine the nail before and after and I'll bend it right in front of you


Edited for spelling



Last edited by Vick at Mar 30 2004, 01:22 PM

[Dravyk]

The origins of religion are logical. Primative man overwhelmed by the sun and the stars in the sky, the rhythm of the seasons, the destructive forces of nature. Sacrificial ceremonies and cults beget high priests, shamans and mysticism, begets religion and organized religion.

Those in charge see it as a valuable tool. You can control people, get their money, get them to do anything. If we think it's tied to politics today, imagine three thousand years ago. A cause to rally armies against other nations for conquest.

As for society, people seem to need (more so in the past than today, but still today) to believe in a higher order and a life after death experience, preferalbly one with rewards and paradise.

[Vick]

Originally posted by Dravyk@Mar 30 2004, 01:22 PM
to believe in a higher order and a life after death experience, preferalbly one with rewards and paradise.
Yep like those who die for Allah and get rewarded by how many ever virgins
ah ha ha ha

[PornoDoggy]

Hmmmm.

Believers believe. Unbelievers do not believe.

Are the bombastic attacks that either launch upon the other any more credible?

I am an antagonistic agnostic. I not only don't know, I JUST DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW!!!! :nyanya:

[Vick]

PD - guess what I'm getting at is religion can be a very dangerous thing and I can't believe these superstitions are still clung to


and I don't know a damn thing except what I just posted above

makes me shake my head in disbelief

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Vick+Mar 30 2004, 01:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Mar 30 2004, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Dravyk@Mar 30 2004, 01:22 PM
to believe in a higher order and a life after death experience, preferalbly one with rewards and paradise.
Yep like those who die for Allah and get rewarded by how many ever virgins
ah ha ha ha[/b][/quote]
Yeah, that IS what they believe. :(

Again, religion is a tool of control and conquest or pacification. I certainly do not agree with organized religion. I hate extremisim of any kind.

Too many milennia of abuse, fraud, war, misery. The evil part of me can see it as a useful tool for manipulation of the masses. As to why they are so easily manipulated, dunno, the power of blind faith is a powerful thing to harness.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Vick+Mar 30 2004, 01:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Mar 30 2004, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Dravyk@Mar 30 2004, 01:22 PM
to believe in a higher order and a life after death experience, preferalbly one with rewards and paradise.
Yep like those who die for Allah and get rewarded by how many ever virgins
ah ha ha ha[/b][/quote]
Don't foget, kamakazies didn't need religion. Nationalism, duty and some opium slipped into their sake was all. :rolleyes:

[Vick]

and it's time to remove the tax exempt status for Churches in the US

[Carrie]

Vick, there are no illusionists in my home. When the objects moved, I was the only one home at the time. No tomfoolery there.
As for showing you a ghost, I do think by the time you drove down here it'd be gone :awinky:

I've seen these things, you haven't. Does that mean they don't exist?
I've seen the White House, Hubby hasn't. Does that mean it doesn't exist?

Some people just experience things that others don't. I can't explain it. *shrugs*

[Vick]

Carrie - there are many plausible explanations for things moving in your home including earthquake or trucks driving nearby

What is the history of your home? Is it new or older, who lived there prior?
Try to find out why some force would be there and move things?


I read and researched supposed ghosts and ghost stories (in particularly in New Orleans and here in Fells Point with a writer who was collecting information for a book) and have been ghost hunting with no sightings

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Carrie@Mar 30 2004, 10:18 AM

No, I'm not crazy.
errr..... of course you are not.

You are fine.

Not crazy at all................


;-)))

[JR]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Mar 30 2004, 11:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Mar 30 2004, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Mar 30 2004, 10:18 AM

No, I'm not crazy.
errr..... of course you are not.

You are fine.

Not crazy at all................


;-)))[/b][/quote]
not crazy = "enlightened"
:P

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by JR+Mar 30 2004, 11:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Mar 30 2004, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Nickatilynx@Mar 30 2004, 11:10 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Mar 30 2004, 10:18 AM

No, I'm not crazy.
errr..... of course you are not.

You are fine.

Not crazy at all................


;-)))
not crazy = "enlightened"
:P[/b][/quote]
I drank 2 bottles of great Red Wine on Sunday.

Man , was I "enlightened"


;-))

[aeon]

double edited post for the oprano grammer police



Last edited by aeon at Mar 30 2004, 11:36 AM

[aeon]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 30 2004, 10:18 AM
aeon - I can't agree, some scientific discoveries are verifiable fact, none of religion is verifiable fact (it's an over simplification but you understand).

Can't lump science with religion no matter how you slice it
show me...something in science that is a truth - show me a fact - a fact is a truth and before you try...re-read what I wrote.

prove me wrong....



Last edited by aeon at Mar 30 2004, 11:35 AM

[Meni]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 30 2004, 11:55 AM
Mike - the concept of Gods just blows me away

Who would have ever thought of an all knowing being? That we are reincarnated? Plus all the other mind blowing, bizarre concepts that are put forth in the name of religions and gods (yeah a guy was born of a virgin birth and nailed to a cross .... all for his followers, sure, yeah right)

Just the most absurd thing ......

I can understand why ancient Greeks and Romans (and other cultures) had mythology. They had no way to explain why the sun came up every day and so on

We live in an age of science and still cling to superstition

Totally amazes me
I saw some HBO documentary
and they showed faith healers
'curing' the sick
and how the guy gets fed info about the person thru an ear piece
then they brought up how
religion came about cuz man feared death
so what better thing to do than create heaven
so we would not go insane knowing we die and thats IT

[Meni]

Originally posted by Carrie@Mar 30 2004, 01:38 PM
Vick, there are no illusionists in my home. When the objects moved, I was the only one home at the time. No tomfoolery there.
As for showing you a ghost, I do think by the time you drove down here it'd be gone :awinky:

I've seen these things, you haven't. Does that mean they don't exist?
I've seen the White House, Hubby hasn't. Does that mean it doesn't exist?

Some people just experience things that others don't. I can't explain it. *shrugs*
Carrie who are ghosts
are they dead people
who didnt make it to heaven?
things move in your house
so its Casper

[Meni]

Originally posted by Carrie@Mar 30 2004, 01:18 PM
Physics and math cannot explain things such as:

- ghosts
- objects moving on their own
- people hearing relative's voices telling them to hit the brakes mere seconds before they'd have been plowed under by a dump truck
- one person seeing a ghost in a certain spot, and another person moving into that spot feels as if they've just walked into a freezer
-The most innocent people are children, yes?
What do you do when your child says a phrase that your grandmother used to say all the time, but she died before he was born, and when you ask him who taught him that phrase, he says "Grandma did!"
Ask him if he means *his* grandma, the one that lives with Papap, and he says "No, *your* grandma, the one with glasses!"

Yes, all of those have happened to me.
No, I'm not crazy.
oh I finally read this
ok cool
ghost exist
any good sexy ghost domains
whats marilyn monroe look like now?

children are innocent
and children die everyday

[PornoDoggy]

Enlightened = think like me

[Vick]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 30 2004, 02:46 PM
Enlightened = think like me
For now I'd settle for not clinging to harmful, ridiculous superstitions

Much less the Christian doctrine that a Christian is must share their faith (think not, how many Christians have knocked on your door in your lifetime)

and if one choses to engage in these beliefs then at the very least removing tax free status for churches in the USA

I still can't get the concept of God


aeon - you're splitting hairs
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

Science starts as a hypothesis and then is proven or not (if possible)
Until it is proven it is theory or a hypothesis

[aeon]

Originally posted by Vick+Mar 30 2004, 12:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Mar 30 2004, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Mar 30 2004, 02:46 PM
Enlightened = think like me
For now I'd settle for not clinging to harmful, ridiculous superstitions

Much less the Christian doctrine that a Christian is must share their faith (think not, how many Christians have knocked on your door in your lifetime)

and if one choses to engage in these beliefs then at the very least removing tax free status for churches in the USA

I still can't get the concept of God


aeon - you're splitting hairs
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

Science starts as a hypothesis and then is proven or not (if possible)
Until it is proven it is theory or a hypothesis[/b][/quote]
we're not going to split hairs...is a fact true or is it not?

then you can't get as semantic as you want...after you answer that question.

[Vick]

I'm not here to answer your question aeon

I started this thread to rant about how some humans still cling to superstition and how/why that belief is harmful and how I can not comprehend it

So excuse me if I don't get off track on your tangent

But thanks for offering

:D

[aeon]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 30 2004, 12:13 PM
I'm not here to answer your question aeon

I started this thread to rant about how some humans still cling to superstition and how/why that belief is harmful and how I can not comprehend it

So excuse me if I don't get off track on your tangent

But thanks for offering

:D
choose your superstition...whether it be a an old ghost...or what someone else says "will" happen... :okthumb:

neither are fact...neither are truth. it's faith...believe in what you want.

[Snoops]

Vick, hi hon, hope you and Sebastian are doing great :o)

My 2 cents (or less)

You cannot prove to me there is no Higher Power, nor can I prove to you there is.

That, if nothing else, is fact.

The problem is not that I believe there is, nor is the problem that you believe there isn't.

The problem isn't belief systems (or lack thereof), the Bible, the Torah, the Koran or any other 'holy' writing.

The problem isn't faith nor the lack of it. The problem isn't science, metaphysics, occult nor any other 'system' of discovery.

The problem is simply that we human beings have yet to master one thing.

The fine art of learning to agree to disagree.

I don't have to believe as you do, nor do I want to. I also have no desire to convert you nor attempt to prove to you that you are wrong, mistaken, or any other adjective. I feel no compunction to prove to you that my beliefs are correct, enlightened or 'the way.' I am more than satisfied that they are true for me, they work for me.

You can trace every 'holy war', religious persecution (from the jews to the witches) and discrimination based on crede to one thing.

Narrow minded human beings who are unable to accept the fact that not all believe as they do. They simply cannot agree to disagree and use their 'righteous' indignation and 'calling' to shove their way down the throats of anyone they can reach.

This is not the fault of a belief system per se as a belief system is just that, a system. It is the fault of the fallibility of the human condition.

(hushing now since I've typed more than I have in weeks and now my fingers hurt) lol

[aeon]

Originally posted by Snoops@Mar 30 2004, 02:52 PM
Vick, hi hon, hope you and Sebastian are doing great :o)

My 2 cents (or less)

You cannot prove to me there is no Higher Power, nor can I prove to you there is.

That, if nothing else, is fact.

The problem is not that I believe there is, nor is the problem that you believe there isn't.

The problem isn't belief systems (or lack thereof), the Bible, the Torah, the Koran or any other 'holy' writing.

The problem isn't faith nor the lack of it. The problem isn't science, metaphysics, occult nor any other 'system' of discovery.

The problem is simply that we human beings have yet to master one thing.

The fine art of learning to agree to disagree.

I don't have to believe as you do, nor do I want to. I also have no desire to convert you nor attempt to prove to you that you are wrong, mistaken, or any other adjective. I feel no compunction to prove to you that my beliefs are correct, enlightened or 'the way.' I am more than satisfied that they are true for me, they work for me.

You can trace every 'holy war', religious persecution (from the jews to the witches) and discrimination based on crede to one thing.

Narrow minded human beings who are unable to accept the fact that not all believe as they do. They simply cannot agree to disagree and use their 'righteous' indignation and 'calling' to shove their way down the throats of anyone they can reach.

This is not the fault of a belief system per se as a belief system is just that, a system. It is the fault of the fallibility of the human condition.

(hushing now since I've typed more than I have in weeks and now my fingers hurt) lol
That's very smart actually - for the most part. I'm not pissing with you vick...I like to hear people's reasons; that's what you learn from - people believe in science...and it's potential for abuse is amazing. Cloning, nuclear weapons, etc., - when people believe in a doctrine as the "enlightened" way...it opens very bad doors. The same doors that humanity used with religion...but the results are potentially far more dangerous with science. The similarities are chillingly similiar.

Unbridled faith is dangerous, no matter what it's in. Humanity evolve's by learning and an old anthropology professor told me a long time ago; it's that learning and arrogance that will probably destroy humanity.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Snoops@Mar 30 2004, 02:52 PM
Vick, hi hon, hope you and Sebastian are doing great :o)

My 2 cents (or less)

You cannot prove to me there is no Higher Power, nor can I prove to you there is.

That, if nothing else, is fact.

The problem is not that I believe there is, nor is the problem that you believe there isn't.

The problem isn't belief systems (or lack thereof), the Bible, the Torah, the Koran or any other 'holy' writing.

The problem isn't faith nor the lack of it. The problem isn't science, metaphysics, occult nor any other 'system' of discovery.

The problem is simply that we human beings have yet to master one thing.

The fine art of learning to agree to disagree.

I don't have to believe as you do, nor do I want to. I also have no desire to convert you nor attempt to prove to you that you are wrong, mistaken, or any other adjective. I feel no compunction to prove to you that my beliefs are correct, enlightened or 'the way.' I am more than satisfied that they are true for me, they work for me.

You can trace every 'holy war', religious persecution (from the jews to the witches) and discrimination based on crede to one thing.

Narrow minded human beings who are unable to accept the fact that not all believe as they do. They simply cannot agree to disagree and use their 'righteous' indignation and 'calling' to shove their way down the throats of anyone they can reach.

This is not the fault of a belief system per se as a belief system is just that, a system. It is the fault of the fallibility of the human condition.

(hushing now since I've typed more than I have in weeks and now my fingers hurt) lol
Very well said.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Snoops@Mar 30 2004, 06:52 PM
(hushing now since I've typed more than I have in weeks and now my fingers hurt) lol
(sniped for brevity)

Excellent post :)

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 29 2004, 06:57 PM
Rant time ......

As long as the human condition clings to the superstition of an all powerful, all mighty, all seeing, all knowing entity/supreme being we will continue to subject ourselves to living in the dark ages

Until we disencumber ourselves from this obstacle we can not move forward to an age of enlightenment

How many have died, how many have suffered, how many more in the name of Gods?

Cultural differences are one thing, how many painful/negative divides are caused by beliefs in non existent beings?

In the name of Allah, in the name of God, in the name of Rahway ......
all amount to battle cries

Opiate for the masses, a means of control .... I don't know

Here in the USA we have divides caused by religon...... strip away religion and what becomes of the divides?????

Consider that on a global scale .........





and don't even get me started on the missed potential of the Internet, the greatest information/communication tool in our time and what did we do......

.... turned it into a flea market
(don't think so, check out the spam you get every day)


/rant

You really should get into some Marxist cultural theory, I think you would really enjoy it.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by chodadog@Mar 30 2004, 12:59 PM
How many people truly understand the Big Bang theory? Not fucking many, i say. I don't. It makes about as much sense to me as any bible thumpin' moron. I believe in a god. Any more than that, i don't know.

What was before the big bang? And what was before that? Whatever it was, it's about as believeable as some omnipotent being. Like i said, i believe in a god. I don't see the bible, or the torah, or the quran as the word of god. I don't think god is some dude with a long beard and perfect teeth.

For all i know, he/she/it could be whatever was responsible for whatever caused the big bang, and so on.
hmmm...you don't know what was there before the big bang?

cool, tell me what was there before the GOD?
when is his TIME ZERO moment?
;-)))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by [Labret]+Mar 30 2004, 10:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ([Labret] @ Mar 30 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 29 2004, 06:57 PM
Rant time ......

As long as the human condition clings to the superstition of an all powerful, all mighty, all seeing, all knowing entity/supreme being we will continue to subject ourselves to living in the dark ages

Until we disencumber ourselves from this obstacle we can not move forward to an age of enlightenment

How many have died, how many have suffered, how many more in the name of Gods?

Cultural differences are one thing, how many painful/negative divides are caused by beliefs in non existent beings?

In the name of Allah, in the name of God, in the name of Rahway ......
all amount to battle cries

Opiate for the masses, a means of control .... I don't know

Here in the USA we have divides caused by religon...... strip away religion and what becomes of the divides?????

Consider that on a global scale .........





and don't even get me started on the missed potential of the Internet, the greatest information/communication tool in our time and what did we do......

.... turned it into a flea market
(don't think so, check out the spam you get every day)


/rant

You really should get into some Marxist cultural theory, I think you would really enjoy it.[/b][/quote]
...but only if you read it in German
;-)))

[XXXPhoto]

Originally posted by Snoops@Mar 30 2004, 02:52 PM
Vick, hi hon, hope you and Sebastian are doing great :o)

My 2 cents (or less)

You cannot prove to me there is no Higher Power, nor can I prove to you there is.

That, if nothing else, is fact.

The problem is not that I believe there is, nor is the problem that you believe there isn't.

The problem isn't belief systems (or lack thereof), the Bible, the Torah, the Koran or any other 'holy' writing.

The problem isn't faith nor the lack of it. The problem isn't science, metaphysics, occult nor any other 'system' of discovery.

The problem is simply that we human beings have yet to master one thing.

The fine art of learning to agree to disagree.

I don't have to believe as you do, nor do I want to. I also have no desire to convert you nor attempt to prove to you that you are wrong, mistaken, or any other adjective. I feel no compunction to prove to you that my beliefs are correct, enlightened or 'the way.' I am more than satisfied that they are true for me, they work for me.

You can trace every 'holy war', religious persecution (from the jews to the witches) and discrimination based on crede to one thing.

Narrow minded human beings who are unable to accept the fact that not all believe as they do. They simply cannot agree to disagree and use their 'righteous' indignation and 'calling' to shove their way down the throats of anyone they can reach.

This is not the fault of a belief system per se as a belief system is just that, a system. It is the fault of the fallibility of the human condition.

(hushing now since I've typed more than I have in weeks and now my fingers hurt) lol
...smart chicks are such a turn on... hubba hubba!!

Will add that most religions rely on their affiliate program rather than their
teachings to entice new members... Wanna learn how to market a biz? Check out how the 'church' does it... :wnw: