Should you be able to shove a gun in your kids

[JR]

some Seattle talk show guy was trying to argue that it is the parents right to do this... to parent the child in any manner he see's fit and he was serious about it.

I could not believe what i was hearing.


"The 6-foot-2, 200-pound Lloyd is accused of sticking a Glock semiautomatic pistol in his then-12-year-old son's mouth in 2001. Lloyd, upset over his son's poor grades in school, allegedly told the boy, "If you want to waste your life, I can end it now," prosecutor Dan Hiatt said."

http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040...18aplloydp7.asp (http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040318aplloydp7.asp)

[Mike AI]

Glad it happened in Seattle and not in the South.....


Freaking idiot!

[PeerPatrick]

Originally posted by JR@Mar 22 2004, 03:28 PM
some Seattle talk show guy was trying to argue that it is the parents right to do this... to parent the child in any manner he see's fit and he was serious about it.

I could not believe what i was hearing.


"The 6-foot-2, 200-pound Lloyd is accused of sticking a Glock semiautomatic pistol in his then-12-year-old son's mouth in 2001. Lloyd, upset over his son's poor grades in school, allegedly told the boy, "If you want to waste your life, I can end it now," prosecutor Dan Hiatt said."

http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040...18aplloydp7.asp (http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040318aplloydp7.asp)
(+-)i bet the kid got straight A's the next semester but if a guy has to to stoop to bullying his kid with a gun, bad grades are probably the least of either of their issues.



Last edited by PeerPatrick at Mar 22 2004, 03:39 PM

[KC]

Originally posted by JR@Mar 22 2004, 06:28 PM
some Seattle talk show guy was trying to argue that it is the parents right to do this... to parent the child in any manner he see's fit and he was serious about it.
That's a weak argument...

What about people that beat the shit out of their kids? Can they defend their actions by saying "I was raising him how I saw fit"

What about parents that sexually abuse their own kids? Can they defend their actions by saying "I was raising him how I saw fit"

Clearly the law doesn't agree with this guy that parents can "parent the child in any manner he see's fit".

Should you be allowed to stick a gun in your child's face? Probably not. Although it's probably an effective deterrant! Unfortunately, the kid is going to be a terrible father too someday.

[JR]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 22 2004, 03:30 PM
Glad it happened in Seattle and not in the South.....


Freaking idiot!
it happened in Georgia

:o

[JR]

Originally posted by KC+Mar 22 2004, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Mar 22 2004, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JR@Mar 22 2004, 06:28 PM
some Seattle talk show guy was trying to argue that it is the parents right to do this... to parent the child in any manner he see's fit and he was serious about it.
That's a weak argument...

What about people that beat the shit out of their kids? Can they defend their actions by saying "I was raising him how I saw fit"

What about parents that sexually abuse their own kids? Can they defend their actions by saying "I was raising him how I saw fit"

Clearly the law doesn't agree with this guy that parents can "parent the child in any manner he see's fit".

Should you be allowed to stick a gun in your child's face? Probably not. Although it's probably an effective deterrant! Unfortunately, the kid is going to be a terrible father too someday.[/b][/quote]
i tried to call that idiot for a while. it was the only time i ever felt compelled to call a radio show. he was so stupid he did not even realize that its assualt and illegal.

his arguments were that it was no more traumatic than hitting a child which is more acceptable and that scaring the shit out of a young boy is ok if it gets the point accross.

I think that violating the trust of a child by a parent whos primary purpose in his life to provide, nurture and protect that child by threatening him with death could not possibly compare to disciplining a child with a few swats on the ass.

[pushpills]

yikes!



bet he gets straight A's from now on though

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by pushpills@Mar 22 2004, 07:05 PM
yikes!



bet he gets straight A's from now on though


Is this what motivated you??

[Vick]

Don't know about putting a gun in your own children's mouth but ....
obviously if you have to something is missing in your parenting skills

.... perhaps in other people children's mouth


or at least turn a stun gun on them

[cj]

What do you expect when you can almost buy guns from 7-11 ... :rolleyes:

put a gun in a morons hand and he'll probably do something moronic with it!

here's a novel concept, why wasn't the gun taken off him when he threatened his wife with it the first time?!?! Nothing else this dude needs his gun for is worthy if he uses it to intimidate human beings.

[pushpills]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Mar 22 2004, 04:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Mar 22 2004, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--pushpills@Mar 22 2004, 07:05 PM
yikes!



bet he gets straight A's from now on though


Is this what motivated you??[/b][/quote]
Nah, my parents were never too hard on me.


I pay for my own schooling so if I don't get good grades, just a waste of my own 18k a year (going up next year I'm sure). Plus I enjoy learning, I'm not going to school to get a job working for someone else.



I think it's ok to push your kids hard though, certainly not with firearms, but some extreme measures are ok if it makes your kid do good. My kids fuck up in school, they're room gets turned in to a matress on the floor and a closet full of clothes from k-mart.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by PeerPatrick+Mar 22 2004, 06:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PeerPatrick @ Mar 22 2004, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JR@Mar 22 2004, 03:28 PM
some Seattle talk show guy was trying to argue that it is the parents right to do this... to parent the child in any manner he see's fit and he was serious about it.

I could not believe what i was hearing.


"The 6-foot-2, 200-pound Lloyd is accused of sticking a Glock semiautomatic pistol in his then-12-year-old son's mouth in 2001. Lloyd, upset over his son's poor grades in school, allegedly told the boy, "If you want to waste your life, I can end it now," prosecutor Dan Hiatt said."

http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040...18aplloydp7.asp (http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040318aplloydp7.asp)
(+-)i bet the kid got straight A's the next semester but if a guy has to to stoop to bullying his kid with a gun, bad grades are probably the least of either of their issues.[/b][/quote]
You may be right. The kid may even get straight A's right up until he gets a B-, at which point he'll borrow Daddy's Glock semiautomatic pistol and register his displeasure with his teacher, counselor, principal, Algebra class, and 8 sophmores in Study Hall.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by pushpills@Mar 22 2004, 07:23 PM
Nah, my parents were never too hard on me.


I pay for my own schooling so if I don't get good grades, just a waste of my own 18k a year (going up next year I'm sure). Plus I enjoy learning, I'm not going to school to get a job working for someone else.



I think it's ok to push your kids hard though, certainly not with firearms, but some extreme measures are ok if it makes your kid do good. My kids fuck up in school, they're room gets turned in to a matress on the floor and a closet full of clothes from k-mart.
Just out of idle curiousity ... are you capable of making a post without mentioning how much money you are paying for something?

"I took a good healthy shit today, and I used 12 sheets from a roll of toilet paper that I paid $1.98 for. I brought it home from the store in my Camaro ... " :blink:

[pushpills]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Mar 22 2004, 06:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Mar 22 2004, 06:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--pushpills@Mar 22 2004, 07:23 PM
Nah, my parents were never too hard on me.


I pay for my own schooling so if I don't get good grades, just a waste of my own 18k a year (going up next year I'm sure). Plus I enjoy learning, I'm not going to school to get a job working for someone else.



I think it's ok to push your kids hard though, certainly not with firearms, but some extreme measures are ok if it makes your kid do good. My kids fuck up in school, they're room gets turned in to a matress on the floor and a closet full of clothes from k-mart.
Just out of idle curiousity ... are you capable of making a post without mentioning how much money you are paying for something?

"I took a good healthy shit today, and I used 12 sheets from a roll of toilet paper that I paid $1.98 for. I brought it home from the store in my Camaro ... " :blink:[/b][/quote]
I spray air-cleaned my keyboard before posting this response. Cost: 75 cents.

I was just stating that MY parents don't have to push me to get good grades because they are not footing the hefty college bill.

And just fyi, I'll be waxing my camaro this week at the cost of 30 or so worth of cleansers and synthetic wax. :awinky:

[PornoDoggy]

The kid in question wasn't in college - he was 12 at the time of the incident.

A therapist could help you with the feelings of inadequacy that causes the frequent mention of the money in your posts ... perhaps J'sdude could give you a recommendation.

[cj]

Originally posted by pushpills@Mar 22 2004, 07:23 PM
Plus I enjoy learning, I'm not going to school to get a job working for someone else.
bit of a contradiction don't ya think?!

do you honestly think school is going to teach you everything!?

[pushpills]

Originally posted by cj+Mar 22 2004, 07:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Mar 22 2004, 07:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--pushpills@Mar 22 2004, 07:23 PM
Plus I enjoy learning, I'm not going to school to get a job working for someone else.
bit of a contradiction don't ya think?!

do you honestly think school is going to teach you everything!?[/b][/quote]
Yea kinda, but I've learned some worthwhile stuff (especially law). It's a good experience.

[Vick]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 22 2004, 09:37 PM
"I took a good healthy shit today, and I used 12 sheets from a roll of toilet paper that I paid $1.98 for. I brought it home from the store in my Camaro ... " :blink:
ah ha ha ha

I'm a little slow could someone break down the overall cost of that defecation, water included

I want to know if I have enough change for ... well you know :angry:


Nice Avatar CJ :yowsa:

[pushpills]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 22 2004, 06:57 PM
The kid in question wasn't in college - he was 12 at the time of the incident.

A therapist could help you with the feelings of inadequacy that causes the frequent mention of the money in your posts ... perhaps J'sdude could give you a recommendation.
so? he asked about my motivation and I AM in college

I'm not writing a scientific hypothesis, it's a message board post. Dissect em all you want. :zzz:

[chodadog]

Originally posted by KC@Mar 22 2004, 03:39 PM
[QUOTE=JR,Mar 22 2004, 06:28 PM]Unfortunately, the kid is going to be a terrible father too someday.
One of the saddest things about abuse is the cycle. We can only hope that he is the kind of person that grows up and uses his experience as a child to become a better father to his children. Break the cycle!

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by pushpills+Mar 22 2004, 10:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Mar 22 2004, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Mar 22 2004, 06:57 PM
The kid in question wasn't in college - he was 12 at the time of the incident.

A therapist could help you with the feelings of inadequacy that causes the frequent mention of the money in your posts ... perhaps J'sdude could give you a recommendation.
so? he asked about my motivation and I AM in college

I'm not writing a scientific hypothesis, it's a message board post. Dissect em all you want. :zzz:[/b][/quote]
Dude, no disection is necessary in your case - you are as subtle as a beer and eggs fart in a stuck elevator.

[cj]

Originally posted by pushpills+Mar 22 2004, 10:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Mar 22 2004, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -cj@Mar 22 2004, 07:02 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--pushpills@Mar 22 2004, 07:23 PM
Plus I enjoy learning, I'm not going to school to get a job working for someone else.
bit of a contradiction don't ya think?!

do you honestly think school is going to teach you everything!?
Yea kinda, but I've learned some worthwhile stuff (especially law). It's a good experience.[/b][/quote]
'yea kinda' - wrong answer ;-)

you will get your wish though - you'll LEARN a lot when you try!


thanks vick ;-)
Gonzo & I are working on lots of surprises!

[JR]

Originally posted by pushpills+Mar 22 2004, 07:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Mar 22 2004, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Mar 22 2004, 06:57 PM
The kid in question wasn't in college - he was 12 at the time of the incident.

A therapist could help you with the feelings of inadequacy that causes the frequent mention of the money in your posts ... perhaps J'sdude could give you a recommendation.
so? he asked about my motivation and I AM in college

I'm not writing a scientific hypothesis, it's a message board post. Dissect em all you want. :zzz:[/b][/quote]
i relized i had to dropped out of college to make money... not graduate.

[Peaches]

No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 08:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
What's that got to do with anything?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by chodadog+Mar 23 2004, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chodadog @ Mar 23 2004, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 08:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
What's that got to do with anything?[/b][/quote]
Let's see - he played what is surely considered a violent game for many years and he was a professional athlete who usually tend to think they are above the law. :unsure: In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if his history had bearing on the jury.

[cj]

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 11:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
Peaches, I think its a problem the world over with football players ... not just professional ones, most of the football players in school are assholes too! Generally men in groups are assholes, but give them a football and a pat on the back about how good they are and watch them go!

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...5E28097,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9051105%255E28097,00.html)

its the topic of the month here in oz with 2 separate codes of football having major rape allegations made against players.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by chodadog+Mar 22 2004, 11:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chodadog @ Mar 22 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 08:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
What's that got to do with anything?[/b][/quote]
Domestic violence by professional athletes in general, and NFL players in particular, has been in the press, including Sports Illustrated, since the mid 70s.

Maybe it’s getting too many concussions; maybe it’s steroids; maybe it’s that since high school these folks have been told that their shit don’t stink so much that they begin to believe it – but there seems to be a relationship between the jock mentality and abusive behavior.

[Vick]

Read Tim Green's (8 years in the NFL and now a Fox sports broadcaster) book "Dark Side of the Game" for more insight into the "football player mentality"

All their lives they are treated "special" for their ability

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 23 2004, 12:30 AM
Read Tim Green's (8 years in the NFL and now a Fox sports broadcaster) book "Dark Side of the Game" for more insight into the "football player mentality"

All their lives they are treated "special" for their ability
I don't want to ruin his reputation, but he also used to do sports commentary on NPR.

[Vick]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Mar 23 2004, 12:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Mar 23 2004, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 23 2004, 12:30 AM
Read Tim Green's (8 years in the NFL and now a Fox sports broadcaster) book "Dark Side of the Game" for more insight into the "football player mentality"

All their lives they are treated "special" for their ability
I don't want to ruin his reputation, but he also used to do sports commentary on NPR.[/b][/quote]
:okthumb: I had forgotten that

Never really knew of him as a player but I enjoy his work as an author

as a sportcaster .... ennn he's ok

[Carrie]

I'm with CJ on this one - the instant the charge was made that he held that gun to his wife's head, it should've been taken out of his possession until the proceedings were over and the charges had been dropped or he'd been declared not guilty.

That poor kid.

Why was the jury deadlocked at 11-1? For some reason I thought you just had to have an overwhelming majority of the vote for a jury, not a completely unanimous one?

Gotta say it again... that poor kid. You're probably right PD - a literal case of "Jeremy spoke in class today".

And that broadcaster needs to have a gun stuck in HIS mouth, perhaps it'll change his tune a bit.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Carrie@Mar 23 2004, 03:16 AM
I'm with CJ on this one - the instant the charge was made that he held that gun to his wife's head, it should've been taken out of his possession until the proceedings were over and the charges had been dropped or he'd been declared not guilty.

That poor kid.

Why was the jury deadlocked at 11-1? For some reason I thought you just had to have an overwhelming majority of the vote for a jury, not a completely unanimous one?

Gotta say it again... that poor kid. You're probably right PD - a literal case of "Jeremy spoke in class today".

And that broadcaster needs to have a gun stuck in HIS mouth, perhaps it'll change his tune a bit.
I do believe CJ is flipping you off!

[Joe Sixpack]

What's the world coming to when you can't stick a gun in a kids mouth?

I thought it was the American way.

[el pres]

Originally posted by cj@Mar 22 2004, 07:20 PM
What do you expect when you can almost buy guns from 7-11 ... :rolleyes:

put a gun in a morons hand and he'll probably do something moronic with it!

here's a novel concept, why wasn't the gun taken off him when he threatened his wife with it the first time?!?! Nothing else this dude needs his gun for is worthy if he uses it to intimidate human beings.
You can't seperate an American from his gun,
you'd have Charlton Heston after you in a flash. :D

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Peaches+Mar 22 2004, 08:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Mar 22 2004, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -chodadog@Mar 23 2004, 12:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 08:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
What's that got to do with anything?
Let's see - he played what is surely considered a violent game for many years and he was a professional athlete who usually tend to think they are above the law. :unsure: In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if his history had bearing on the jury.[/b][/quote]
Just because there is a lot more fanfare every time a sports star commits a serious crime, doesn't mean that professional athletes are any more likely to be criminals than the rest of the population. Nobody is going to give months and months of coverage when Joe Blow rapes some girl, but if Kobe is accused, the media will milk it.

I don't think the sports that people play have anything to do with their temperment. A friend of our family, when we were still living in South Africa was the national kick boxing champ for his weight division. Guy was as placid and calm as anyone could be. I know you're not saying that all people involved in aggressive sports are violent outside of the game, but i think even suggesting that they're more likely to be is a little silly.

[wig]

Originally posted by cj+Mar 22 2004, 11:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Mar 22 2004, 11:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 11:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
Peaches, I think its a problem the world over with football players ... not just professional ones, most of the football players in school are assholes too! Generally men in groups are assholes, but give them a football and a pat on the back about how good they are and watch them go!

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...5E28097,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9051105%255E28097,00.html)

its the topic of the month here in oz with 2 separate codes of football having major rape allegations made against players.[/b][/quote]
CJ,

Looking good in your avatar, baby!

Glad to see that the blame is being placed on the individual.

I know where you stand on the gun issue, but the gun did not do it on its own. :D

[Peaches]

Originally posted by chodadog@Mar 23 2004, 10:01 AM
but i think even suggesting that they're more likely to be is a little silly.
Yet at least 3 other posters have agreed with me and one even posted a book to read which examines the situation. Seems my comments weren't too far of a stretch. :awinky:

Are all professional athletes violent? No. Do all professional athletes take advantage of their "fame"? Of course not, but there are many that do feel they are above the law.

BTW, the pedestal that American pro athletes have been placed upon, especially recently, is probably hard to understand if you're not in America seeing it on a day to day basis.

[spazlabz]

But Lloyd's lawyer, Ricky Morris, said his client is innocent and was being set up by his estranged wife, Rhonda Lloyd.
Thats what I believe


spaz

[TheEnforcer]

What a fucking moron. Guy deserves to rot in jail.

[Trev]

Jeese... It's not like he pulled the trigger or anything like that :yowsa:

[chodadog]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Mar 22 2004, 09:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Mar 22 2004, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -chodadog@Mar 22 2004, 11:13 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 08:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
What's that got to do with anything?
Domestic violence by professional athletes in general, and NFL players in particular, has been in the press, including Sports Illustrated, since the mid 70s.

Maybe it’s getting too many concussions; maybe it’s steroids; maybe it’s that since high school these folks have been told that their shit don’t stink so much that they begin to believe it – but there seems to be a relationship between the jock mentality and abusive behavior.[/b][/quote]
That's because when a famous person beats his wife, it's newsworthy. When someone else does it, nobody gives a shit. The statistics for things like spousal abuse are frightening. It doesn't surprise me at all that there are football players that are violent outside of the game. I'd be interested in seeing some statistics comparing their violence off the field to that of the general population. How m any of them have had the police respond to domestic abuse calls, or how many have been charged and convicted for such acts. I would be very surprised if the numbers differed by any significant amount.

There's just more noise surrounding famous people.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Peaches+Mar 23 2004, 06:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Mar 23 2004, 06:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--chodadog@Mar 23 2004, 10:01 AM
but i think even suggesting that they're more likely to be is a little silly.
Yet at least 3 other posters have agreed with me and one even posted a book to read which examines the situation. Seems my comments weren't too far of a stretch. :awinky:

Are all professional athletes violent? No. Do all professional athletes take advantage of their "fame"? Of course not, but there are many that do feel they are above the law.

BTW, the pedestal that American pro athletes have been placed upon, especially recently, is probably hard to understand if you're not in America seeing it on a day to day basis.[/b][/quote]
I'll admit, i haven't read that book, or am even interested in reading it, but i just glanced at the editorial reviews on amazon.com and it seems to me that the book is largely about the behind the scenes shit of the game, and has very little, if anything, to do with issues unrelated to the game.

It seems to be about shady practices in the game, Injuries, drugs, racism, etc.



Last edited by chodadog at Mar 23 2004, 08:03 AM

[chodadog]

And a quick glance through the contents pages of the book.. nothing to do with this kind of thing pops up. He has an essay about groupies, but the impression i got from the editorial reviews was that he writes about how they're not as common as people might think, and who would want to sleep with a groupie anyways?

[Vick]

The book "Dark Side of the Game" also explains about the preferred treatment athletes (in particular Football players) receive

[kath]

It's a sick, sick, sick, sick world.....

:unsure:

And yeah, Peaches - I'll agree with you too. The things these professional athletes are getting away with and expect to get away with are ridiculous. We're creating these monsters - it's a shame, kids can't even have heroes to look up to anymore... not Joe Athlete - and sometimes not even Dad.

:huh:

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 23 2004, 08:31 AM
The book "Dark Side of the Game" also explains about the preferred treatment athletes (in particular Football players) receive
And so do the extremely wealthy, or famous actors. Does this mean that they beat their wives more or go around pointing guns at people? No. The fact is, there are all kinds of fucked up people and you won't find a single group that doesn't have it's fair share of wife beatin' gun totin' assholes.

[Vick]

Originally posted by chodadog+Mar 23 2004, 12:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chodadog @ Mar 23 2004, 12:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 23 2004, 08:31 AM
The book "Dark Side of the Game" also explains about the preferred treatment athletes (in particular Football players) receive
And so do the extremely wealthy, or famous actors. Does this mean that they beat their wives more or go around pointing guns at people? No. The fact is, there are all kinds of fucked up people and you won't find a single group that doesn't have it's fair share of wife beatin' gun totin' assholes.[/b][/quote]
Does that include chodadog's too? :P (BTW - what is a chodadog?)

Maybe you're not getting the point trying be made here, Football players receive "special" treatment all their lives and may not think they are accountable to the same set of laws as the rest of the general population

[chodadog]

chodadog is chodaboy's dog in the movie Orgazmo (http://imdb.com/title/tt0124819/).

I see what you're saying, and i see how it could make sense. But that's all i ever see. A bunch of people.. saying stuff. Unless you have facts and figures to back up what you're saying, then i can only assume that you think what you think because of what you see in the news, which is obviously quite slanted. Hell, Kobe got more time on the news than most terrorist attacks around the world get.

[Amberlita]

Originally posted by chodadog+Mar 23 2004, 09:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chodadog @ Mar 23 2004, 09:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 23 2004, 08:31 AM
The book "Dark Side of the Game" also explains about the preferred treatment athletes (in particular Football players) receive
And so do the extremely wealthy, or famous actors. Does this mean that they beat their wives more or go around pointing guns at people? No. The fact is, there are all kinds of fucked up people and you won't find a single group that doesn't have it's fair share of wife beatin' gun totin' assholes.[/b][/quote]
It's true that every group has, "it's fair share of wife beatin' gun totin' assholes."

But I am with Peaches on this one. Professional athletes definitely get special treatment here in the US. Here's a two letter reminder of a wife beatin', even murdering, pro-athlete that walked away free - O J.

And regarding the punk father that put a gun in his son's mouth - WTF?!! People should have to pass an IQ test, and parenting test, before they're allowed to have children.

[Vick]

Cool on the name! That movie has been recommended to me but I've never had the opportunity to watch it


If you look at the amount of players in the NFL (about 1,500 at any given time) to the amount of arrests (don't have solid figures on the past year) plus media exposure is seems to be more than the average population

Question remains is that because the game draws violent performers (or the performers may turn violent after years of intense training) or do the performers feel they are above the law?

Does the fact that Greg Lloyd was a pro football player have anything to do with his shoving a gun in his child's mouth? Most likely not but who knows

Is how Greg Lloyd is treated and how he acts after the arrest effected by the fact he is a former all pro NFL player - yep

If the glove does not fit - you must acquit
Ray Lewis, OJ and other Pro Football players get the best justice ......

.... money (and notoriety) can buy

[kath]

Originally posted by Amberlita@Mar 23 2004, 10:20 AM
And regarding the punk father that put a gun in his son's mouth - WTF?!! People should have to pass an IQ test, and parenting test, before they're allowed to have children.
I agree with you 100% - just look at all the hoops people have to jump through to prove that they are "worthy" for adoption, but there are no tests or requirements for some of these assholes to have children.

Sickest thing I ever saw... my parents were foster parents when I was a kid - we had new children living in our house almost every week. Sometimes they stay a little longer than others and you get attached. One little girl's parents both lost custody several times because it had been proven they were molesting/beating the little girl - but the state kept giving her back to them. The last time we saw her she cried, kicked and held on to the door jam when the social worker took her from our home back to her parents... I'll never forget that look on her face, I was 8 years old - she was about 5... we learned months later that they had finally killed her... the parents were in and out of jail and got their other children returned to them almost right away.

People like this - and this father who stuck a gun in his son's mouth - just make me sick.

:headwall:

[Amberlita]

Originally posted by kath+Mar 23 2004, 10:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kath @ Mar 23 2004, 10:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Amberlita@Mar 23 2004, 10:20 AM
And regarding the punk father that put a gun in his son's mouth - WTF?!! People should have to pass an IQ test, and parenting test, before they're allowed to have children.
I agree with you 100% - just look at all the hoops people have to jump through to prove that they are "worthy" for adoption, but there are no tests or requirements for some of these assholes to have children.

Sickest thing I ever saw... my parents were foster parents when I was a kid - we had new children living in our house almost every week. Sometimes they stay a little longer than others and you get attached. One little girl's parents both lost custody several times because it had been proven they were molesting/beating the little girl - but the state kept giving her back to them. The last time we saw her she cried, kicked and held on to the door jam when the social worker took her from our home back to her parents... I'll never forget that look on her face, I was 8 years old - she was about 5... we learned months later that they had finally killed her... the parents were in and out of jail and got their other children returned to them almost right away.

People like this - and this father who stuck a gun in his son's mouth - just make me sick.

:headwall:[/b][/quote]
wow kath, that's incredibly heart-breaking...that poor little girl!

It makes me so angry...I'm by no means a fan of guns, but people that harm children should be shot.

[cj]

Originally posted by wig+Mar 23 2004, 09:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (wig @ Mar 23 2004, 09:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -cj@Mar 22 2004, 11:27 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 11:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
Peaches, I think its a problem the world over with football players ... not just professional ones, most of the football players in school are assholes too! Generally men in groups are assholes, but give them a football and a pat on the back about how good they are and watch them go!

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...5E28097,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9051105%255E28097,00.html)

its the topic of the month here in oz with 2 separate codes of football having major rape allegations made against players.
CJ,

Looking good in your avatar, baby!

Glad to see that the blame is being placed on the individual.

I know where you stand on the gun issue, but the gun did not do it on its own. :D[/b][/quote]
no wig, the gun didn't do it on its own!

BUT ... do you think that someone who has a history of using a gun inappropriately (even once) should continue to have freedom to keep a gun?

The argument 'guns arent the problem people are' only works if you actually PUNISH the people that break the rules ... holding a gun to someone's head so you feel a sense of power surely isn't something gun supporters like yourself could possibly condone?!


choda, you used the example of actors & actresses ... how many of them are in the press currently? fact: there are less violent abuse cases in hollywood than sportsville ...

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 22 2004, 09:37 PM
"I took a good healthy shit today, and I used 12 sheets from a roll of toilet paper that I paid $1.98 for. I brought it home from the store in my Camaro ... " :blink:
Be nice. He just finished reading American Psycho and is doing the best he can.

(Nick, that's for you ;-))

[Peaches]

Originally posted by cj@Mar 23 2004, 05:53 PM
BUT ... do you think that someone who has a history of using a gun inappropriately (even once) should continue to have freedom to keep a gun?
I may be wrong on this, but IIRC, in GA if you have been convicted of domestic violence, you CAN'T own a gun. However, as it is sometimes hard for others to understand, laws aren't always obeyed. That is one of the reasons most people in the US feel the current gun laws are fine - they just need to be enforced.

[cj]

good point peaches, not much point in a law if nobody is policing it :rolleyes:

[wig]

Originally posted by cj+Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -wig@Mar 23 2004, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by -cj@Mar 22 2004, 11:27 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Mar 22 2004, 11:06 PM
No one has even brought up that this guy was a professional football player....am I the only one who sees that as part of the problem? :unsure:
Peaches, I think its a problem the world over with football players ... not just professional ones, most of the football players in school are assholes too! Generally men in groups are assholes, but give them a football and a pat on the back about how good they are and watch them go!

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...5E28097,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9051105%255E28097,00.html)

its the topic of the month here in oz with 2 separate codes of football having major rape allegations made against players.
CJ,

Looking good in your avatar, baby!

Glad to see that the blame is being placed on the individual.

I know where you stand on the gun issue, but the gun did not do it on its own. :D
no wig, the gun didn't do it on its own!

BUT ... do you think that someone who has a history of using a gun inappropriately (even once) should continue to have freedom to keep a gun?

The argument 'guns arent the problem people are' only works if you actually PUNISH the people that break the rules ... holding a gun to someone's head so you feel a sense of power surely isn't something gun supporters like yourself could possibly condone?!


choda, you used the example of actors & actresses ... how many of them are in the press currently? fact: there are less violent abuse cases in hollywood than sportsville ...[/b][/quote]
CJ,

We do have laws for this and I agree with you wholeheartedly that we should enforce the law and hold individuals accountable for their actions.

The US does a poor job of this. :(

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Colin+Mar 23 2004, 02:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Mar 23 2004, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Mar 22 2004, 09:37 PM
"I took a good healthy shit today, and I used 12 sheets from a roll of toilet paper that I paid $1.98 for. I brought it home from the store in my Camaro ... " :blink:
Be nice. He just finished reading American Psycho and is doing the best he can.

(Nick, that's for you ;-))[/b][/quote]
ahahahahahahahahahaha

absolultely , he is like the trailer park version LOL

-- The black armani ,white virgin cotton shirt from brookes and the yellow hermes tie , with the duck motif .Has to be the black high polish wingtips.The cufflinks from gucci will go perfectly.

Must get more oil for the chain shaw

[clemsontiger]

I am going to say something in this:

The sole fact that athletes, rich people, and actors/actresses are famous is not what keeps them free after committing crimes, it's the fact that they have money to either win or keep them out of jail. They pay out their ass for great lawyers plus I'm sure there is a little money in it for the court system if they are not convicted, or not sentenced to jail. The reason that we hear more about these crimes than the ones committed by lesser individuals is because of the media. They know that they will get more viewers if they have knews on someone famous. If you live in a small town, you will hear about these lesser individuals committing these crimes, plus the famous people as well. In cities such as New York, Atlanta, or even Los Angeles, the media is not as worried about the infamous criminals because of the population. There are too many people committing too many crimes to keep up with it, so they look for the ones that people want to hear about.


That is my two cents.



Last edited by clemsontiger at Mar 23 2004, 09:08 PM

[cj]

ct, can you name 5 actors off the top of your head who have been in murder/rape/violence against women cases?

what about 5 musicians?

what about 5 sports stars?

[clemsontiger]

Originally posted by cj@Mar 23 2004, 09:12 PM
ct, can you name 5 actors off the top of your head who have been in murder/rape/violence against women cases?

what about 5 musicians?

what about 5 sports stars?
Sports stars: O.J., Jason Williams, Ray Carruth, Kobe Bryant, and Ray Lewis.

You got me on actors and musicians, but I also follow A LOT of sports news.

Edit: Ray Lewis wasn't against a woman, my mistake, didn't read it thoroughly at first.



Last edited by clemsontiger at Mar 23 2004, 09:18 PM

[cj]

sports stars was easy compared to actors and musicians huh?

wonder if thats because more sports people commit violent crimes than actors & musicians?

we aren't comparing normal people to celebrities here, we are comparing sports people to other celebrities so you can't use the argument that one gets more publicity than the other.

you can bet your last dollar that if brad pitt tripped, punched, raped or killed someone you'd know about it!

[clemsontiger]

Originally posted by cj@Mar 23 2004, 09:30 PM
sports stars was easy compared to actors and musicians huh?

wonder if thats because more sports people commit violent crimes than actors & musicians?

we aren't comparing normal people to celebrities here, we are comparing sports people to other celebrities so you can't use the argument that one gets more publicity than the other.

you can bet your last dollar that if brad pitt tripped, punched, raped or killed someone you'd know about it!
Sports stars was easy because I follow sports stories way more than I do actors and musicians. I don't read the newspaper often, except for a few times at work, and when I do it's either business or sports. I also don't watch much TV that has commercials or news.

However, I do see your arguement in that sports stars commit more crimes than actors and musicians, but then again, we also pay more to watch sports than we do actors or listen to musicians. Look at the salaries of sports players compared to that of actors and musicians.

Another point that I will make is that sports stars also take more "drugs" because it enhances their ability to perform. Actors and musicians do not partake because it does not enhance their abilities to excel. Athletes take them to try to be better than the next person. Many times these "drugs" change the chemical inbalance therefore causing them to get angry often or even get angrier when they do get angry. I am not blaming it just on the "drugs", I feel athletes have an inferiority complex which does not help in any situation. They need to feel bigger than everyone else, try to show that they are the boss, I.E. beating their wife or shoving a gun in their sons' mouth.



Last edited by clemsontiger at Mar 23 2004, 09:48 PM

[Peaches]

Originally posted by clemsontiger@Mar 23 2004, 09:47 PM
Another point that I will make is that sports stars also take more "drugs" because it enhances their ability to perform. Actors and musicians do not partake because it does not enhance their abilities to excel. Athletes take them to try to be better than the next person. Many times these "drugs" change the chemical inbalance therefore causing them to get angry often or even get angrier when they do get angry.
Actors and musicians don't take drugs? :unsure:

Who the heck raised you??!! :zoinks:

[clemsontiger]

Originally posted by Peaches+Mar 23 2004, 09:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Mar 23 2004, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--clemsontiger@Mar 23 2004, 09:47 PM
Another point that I will make is that sports stars also take more "drugs" because it enhances their ability to perform. Actors and musicians do not partake because it does not enhance their abilities to excel. Athletes take them to try to be better than the next person. Many times these "drugs" change the chemical inbalance therefore causing them to get angry often or even get angrier when they do get angry.
Actors and musicians don't take drugs? :unsure:

Who the heck raised you??!! :zoinks:[/b][/quote]
Not performance enhancing drugs, they take drugs to feel better, not to better themselves at what they do.

[cj]

1) we pay more to watch sport?! really?! what about when 1 single movie clears 100 million in the first weekend ... does sport REALLY make more? if so, i'm shocked ....

2) musicians and actors take shitloads of drugs and get angry and psycho. coke is the best example i can think of ...

[clemsontiger]

Originally posted by cj@Mar 23 2004, 09:54 PM
1) we pay more to watch sport?! really?! what about when 1 single movie clears 100 million in the first weekend ... does sport REALLY make more? if so, i'm shocked ....

The actors do not get that money, the director(s) and producer(s) do. Actors are paid a set sum which they receive before the movie is out in theatres, once they get that and the movie is finished being made, that is done. They do get money for appearing on shows and such from cause of the movie, but that is not salary.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by clemsontiger@Mar 23 2004, 05:07 PM
I am going to say something in this:

The sole fact that athletes, rich people, and actors/actresses are famous is not what keeps them free after committing crimes, it's the fact that they have money to either win or keep them out of jail. They pay out their ass for great lawyers plus I'm sure there is a little money in it for the court system if they are not convicted, or not sentenced to jail. The reason that we hear more about these crimes than the ones committed by lesser individuals is because of the media. They know that they will get more viewers if they have knews on someone famous. If you live in a small town, you will hear about these lesser individuals committing these crimes, plus the famous people as well. In cities such as New York, Atlanta, or even Los Angeles, the media is not as worried about the infamous criminals because of the population. There are too many people committing too many crimes to keep up with it, so they look for the ones that people want to hear about.


That is my two cents.
Exactly. Can you imagine how many people would sit glued to Fox News if they gave some alleged rapist as much air time as they have given to Kobe Bryant? Nobody. Fucking nobody.

[JR]

OJ is I N N O C E N T!

[clemsontiger]

Originally posted by chodadog+Mar 23 2004, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chodadog @ Mar 23 2004, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--clemsontiger@Mar 23 2004, 05:07 PM
I am going to say something in this:

The sole fact that athletes, rich people, and actors/actresses are famous is not what keeps them free after committing crimes, it's the fact that they have money to either win or keep them out of jail. They pay out their ass for great lawyers plus I'm sure there is a little money in it for the court system if they are not convicted, or not sentenced to jail. The reason that we hear more about these crimes than the ones committed by lesser individuals is because of the media. They know that they will get more viewers if they have knews on someone famous. If you live in a small town, you will hear about these lesser individuals committing these crimes, plus the famous people as well. In cities such as New York, Atlanta, or even Los Angeles, the media is not as worried about the infamous criminals because of the population. There are too many people committing too many crimes to keep up with it, so they look for the ones that people want to hear about.


That is my two cents.
Exactly. Can you imagine how many people would sit glued to Fox News if they gave some alleged rapist as much air time as they have given to Kobe Bryant? Nobody. Fucking nobody.[/b][/quote]
Snipers in Maryland.

[JR]

Michael DID NOT do it!

[Carrie]

Originally posted by gonzo@Mar 23 2004, 04:29 AM
I do believe CJ is flipping you off!
Does it look like I care?

[Carrie]

Originally posted by clemsontiger@Mar 23 2004, 09:04 PM
Snipers in Maryland.
Heck they brought that kid in for sentencing just last week or so and it barely got a mention - and the trial is happening right here in my town not 3 miles from me straight as the crow flies.

[spanno]

if its illegal to threaten someone with a firearm then you shouldn't be alowed to shove one in your kids face

I imagine it would be illegal to stick guns in peoples faces in most places but maybe not everywhere in america

[chodadog]

Originally posted by clemsontiger+Mar 23 2004, 06:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clemsontiger @ Mar 23 2004, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -chodadog@Mar 23 2004, 10:01 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--clemsontiger@Mar 23 2004, 05:07 PM
I am going to say something in this:

The sole fact that athletes, rich people, and actors/actresses are famous is not what keeps them free after committing crimes, it's the fact that they have money to either win or keep them out of jail. They pay out their ass for great lawyers plus I'm sure there is a little money in it for the court system if they are not convicted, or not sentenced to jail. The reason that we hear more about these crimes than the ones committed by lesser individuals is because of the media. They know that they will get more viewers if they have knews on someone famous. If you live in a small town, you will hear about these lesser individuals committing these crimes, plus the famous people as well. In cities such as New York, Atlanta, or even Los Angeles, the media is not as worried about the infamous criminals because of the population. There are too many people committing too many crimes to keep up with it, so they look for the ones that people want to hear about.


That is my two cents.
Exactly. Can you imagine how many people would sit glued to Fox News if they gave some alleged rapist as much air time as they have given to Kobe Bryant? Nobody. Fucking nobody.
Snipers in Maryland.[/b][/quote]
Well, that's a different story. That was a huge ongoing thing. Now, if one of them had just killed one some other nobody.. Would he even get a mention on anything other than the local news? And what if Kobe killed someone.. or better yet, someone famous?