At what point did people decide...

[Hooper]

that "cancelling" is something you can do with products?

i'm always amazed at people's gumption. a perfect example.

somebody goes to our web site, purchases a product. downloads it. uses it. decides it's not exactly what they are looking for.

so what do they do? they call up and tell us they want to "cancel" their order, as though it was somewhere indicated that this was a trial period, or that we're doing this to be nice.

lol.. is this just me? or do other business get this same kind of thing?

where the hell did people get the idea that you can "cancel" a purchase once you've received the goods???

[chodadog]

I do that all the time with canned goods.

[Tonda_WEGCash]

It's the same as someone going to a deptartment store, purchasing items, leaving the tags on, wearing them and returning the next time they go back to the store.

[Vick]

Hooper - I think there are some questions that need to be asked or addressed

What % are trying to get a refund?

Why are they canceling? - Is it because they are porn surfers and know the chargeback game?

Was the product "oversold"? (made to sound like the best thing since sex)

Did the see what they think is a similar product at a different price?

Did they use the product and no longer have a need for it and they are just cheap fucks?

[Ani D]

I think we all know someone who regularly does this type of thing in our personal lives. We should shame each and every one of them that we know. It is theft.

[Hooper]

ah, i agree with some of the comments,

but.. if somebody returns a garmet, that garmet can be resold, so really the department store lost very little. this is more like.. well specifically it *IS* somebody purchasing one of our software titles, receiving the title, receiving a reg key, using it, receiving a hard copy via the mail... and then wanting their money back without returning the product.

to me this is the equivalent of buying a loaf of bread, eating it, deciding you didnt like it, and calling the store asking for a refund.

have business in the usa coddled consumers for too long? it seems that while people scream about businesses being reckless and too agressive, consumer fraud is rampant as well.

i think we should go back to the days of caveat emptor

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Hooper@Feb 5 2004, 01:47 PM
but.. if somebody returns a garmet, that garmet can be resold, so really the department store lost very little.
Usually IF it is resold, it is done so at a drastic markdown. Plus employee time to sell, receive the return, markdown, restock, etc.

You use the bread as an example, but this happens all the time in restaurants. There are types of people who walk in knowing they will eat for free or at a huge discount. The order, eat most of it, then complain that it was bad and they want their money back.

IMHO, it's even worse when dealing with a "virtual" product. Even those who normally wouldn't return something after using it can't hold the product in their hand so mentally, it's just a matter of saying you don't want it and getting the money back/charges reversed.

Human nature is sometimes a pissy thing to observe. :rolleyes:

[Mike AI]

Non-physical products that are downloaded online will always have these problems. The porn industry helped create the concept of charge-back. In 1996 the vast amount of people did not know the rules of VISA/MASTERCARD, today in 2004 I would say the consumer ( especially porn consumers) understand the rules and many exploit them.

[JR]

Hooper, can you use Verified by Visa for that software site? I think you can.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by JR@Feb 5 2004, 01:31 PM
Hooper, can you use Verified by Visa for that software site? I think you can.
Not if hes going to do recurring billing he cant.

[JR]

Originally posted by gonzo+Feb 5 2004, 10:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Feb 5 2004, 10:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JR@Feb 5 2004, 01:31 PM
Hooper, can you use Verified by Visa for that software site? I think you can.
Not if hes going to do recurring billing he cant.[/b][/quote]
i was assuming he was talking about the software which would be a one time purchase where people would buy, download it and then say "fuck you" because they know their bank will let them.

... most of which are probably pornographers
:o



Last edited by JR at Feb 5 2004, 10:38 AM

[gonzo]

Originally posted by JR+Feb 5 2004, 01:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Feb 5 2004, 01:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -gonzo@Feb 5 2004, 10:35 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--JR@Feb 5 2004, 01:31 PM
Hooper, can you use Verified by Visa for that software site? I think you can.
Not if hes going to do recurring billing he cant.
i was assuming he was talking about the software which would be a one time purchase where people would buy, download it and then say "fuck you" because they know their bank will let them.

... most of which are probably pornographers
:o[/b][/quote]
I dunno JR. I know hes enjoying bottled water is all.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by JR@Feb 5 2004, 01:31 PM
Hooper, can you use Verified by Visa for that software site? I think you can.
it's a one time purchase, so i COULD use VBV... but how many (show of hands will suffice) actually know their vbv password?

my hand is not raised cause i dont think i'm enrolled.


chargebacks really arent an issue, we win the vast majority of our chargebacks, i'm more referring to people who simply ask for their money back...rather people who expect that we'll give them their money back.



Last edited by Hooper at Feb 5 2004, 02:12 PM

[ulfie]

I'll give you a perfect example of how retailers coddle consumers. I bought a tv at walmart over a year ago. Around November of 2002 I think. About 2 weeks ago it died. Hit the power button, nothing, use the remote, nothing. It's out of warranty, I have no receipt, but Walmart took it back and gave me a better and more expensive tv at no charge. Makes absolutely no sense to me how that could possibly be profitable for them to do. My aunt does it all the time when she buys something that breaks or she doesn't like. If the store she bought it from won't take it back and Walmart sells the same thing she takes it there and they give her the money back. SHE DIDN'T EVEN BUY THE THING THERE and they issue a refund. Again, it makes no sense to me.

[sarettah]

Originally posted by ulfie@Feb 5 2004, 04:15 PM
I'll give you a perfect example of how retailers coddle consumers. I bought a tv at walmart over a year ago. Around November of 2002 I think. About 2 weeks ago it died. Hit the power button, nothing, use the remote, nothing. It's out of warranty, I have no receipt, but Walmart took it back and gave me a better and more expensive tv at no charge. Makes absolutely no sense to me how that could possibly be profitable for them to do. My aunt does it all the time when she buys something that breaks or she doesn't like. If the store she bought it from won't take it back and Walmart sells the same thing she takes it there and they give her the money back. SHE DIDN'T EVEN BUY THE THING THERE and they issue a refund. Again, it makes no sense to me.
In that case the store returns it to their supplier as defective and they either get a new unit, credit for the unit or full cash on it.. The store ends up out nothing. Usually the manufacturer ends up eating those ones.

But people do try to get away with all sorts of shit that they shouldn't and VISA, MC and the FTC are some of the biggest enablers of this typw of behavior.

A previous company I worked for was big time into 1-900 and 1-800 audiotext stuff... When someone signed up, we got a voiceprint of them in addition to all the billing info... It was amazing the number that said they didn't do it when we had their personal info and voice print on file... Didn't matter to VISA, MC or the FTC that the voiceprint was on file... We ended up crediting every fucking body that said "they didn't do it" when we knew for fact that they did do it.......