The Nation's Consumer Debt is Now...

[Titus]

over 2 trillion dollars for the first time ever. Congrats, America!

- Titus

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Titus@Jan 19 2004, 07:33 PM
over 2 trillion dollars for the first time ever. Congrats, America!

- Titus


The real question is what is that number compaired to the GNP.

I would imagine that number, the % of debt to GNP has remained pretty stable. At least the last time I checked.

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 19 2004, 07:39 PM

The real question is what is that number compaired to the GNP.

i forget the #s, but lower than it was in the 80s

[[Labret]]

Where is Buff to make it all make sense?

[Titus]

The UK actually has a higher per-capita load, with the average adult citizen carrying the equivalent of $8k in debt.

There were 1.4 million bankruptcies declared last year in the US.

Some people argue that the rising debt level increases productivity, since people are forced to work harder and take less days off in order to maintain their payments.

- Titus

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Titus@Jan 19 2004, 07:33 PM
over 2 trillion dollars for the first time ever. Congrats, America!

- Titus
Deficits are only a problem when a. Democrats hold the White House, or b. Democrats control Congress.

Deficits become a crisis when both a. and b. are true.

Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss....



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Jan 19 2004, 08:37 PM

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Titus@Jan 19 2004, 08:28 PM
The UK actually has a higher per-capita load, with the average adult citizen carrying the equivalent of $8k in debt.

There were 1.4 million bankruptcies declared last year in the US.

Some people argue that the rising debt level increases productivity, since people are forced to work harder and take less days off in order to maintain their payments.

- Titus

I dunno about that theory....

But debt is like anything, it is all relative.

For example, someone gets out of college, gets a 50k a year job and buys a 150k house. He will probably be financing 120k or so.

Over the years, this person should end up making more money. He could start earning 150k a year, and thus with his family move into a larger house. Maybe 500k, which he would finance 300k or so.

He owes more in debt, but he has more assets, and is earning more.

I am not wild about Bush's spending. I think he is worse then a democrat, and should be hammered on it. The problem is the democrats spend just as much..... We live in a Country where the political parties fight on who can spend the most - especially on social, and pork issues.

But I do not think overall the US is that bad of shape.... we are certainly not where most of Europe is. ( though we are trying to catch up!)

[Titus]

Sorry, I should have qualified that. CREDIT CARD debt, 8k per person.

There is a huuuuge difference.

My fault.

No wonder they can't afford to get orthodonture.

- Titus

[Peaches]

Per the articles I've read, American's debt is approx $18K per person and this does NOT include mortgages. :( With mortgages, the national consumer debt is around NINE TRILLION. :zoinks:

[Titus]

Maybe I was wrong, I thought I heard them say the UK had a higher debt load per person. But 2 trillion sure is a crapload, I never thought to do the division.

Either way, it's a bloody mess!

- Titus

[Winetalk.com]

yes, debts are relative...

is 100,000,000 in debt a lot?

for FM - yes,
for Bill Gates - no

Everything is rtelative and...I agree with PD on this one
;-))))

[slavdogg]

i got no problem with so much consumer debt

debt consolidation is highly profitable :)

its all relative..

[Vick]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 19 2004, 08:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 19 2004, 08:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Titus@Jan 19 2004, 07:33 PM
over 2 trillion dollars for the first time ever. Congrats, America!

- Titus
Deficits are only a problem when a. Democrats hold the White House, or b. Democrats control Congress.

Deficits become a crisis when both a. and b. are true.

Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss....[/b][/quote]
:wnw: :wnw: :wnw:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by slavdogg@Jan 20 2004, 01:56 AM
i got no problem with so much consumer debt

debt consolidation is highly profitable :)

its all relative..
Buying repos and foreclosures is also quite profitable during this time - an old boyfriend of mine has been predicting this for over a year and he's having a blast. :okthumb:

If only I had listened to him when he told me to sell my stocks. :(

[Dravyk]

PD, love how you tell it like it is!!! :rokk:

Peaches, last I heard (and posted it here) back in September it was $20K per household ... with only $17K in taxes per household being taken in.

[Hell Puppy]

This is a little dated, but based on census data. Suffice to say it has likely only gotten worse with the recent economic conditions.

http://www.consumerfed.org/amfamwel.pdf


Basically alot of people are flat broke and the average american has no net worth beyond whatever equity they have in their primary residence.

[slavdogg]

Overall debt, public and private, has grown from $4.6 trillion in 1985 to $20.1 trillion in 2002, an increase of 340%. During the same time, the economy grew by "only" 160%, so total debt has grown about twice as fast as the economy. The doomsday press loves to quote this fact, but let's look at the details. First, interest rates have come down. In 1985, the yield on Aaa corporate bonds was 11.4%. Today, that yield is 6.3%, so the cost of serving today's debt is up only 142%, less than GDP growth.

Also, total household debt service was at the same levels as today (14.34% of national income) back in 1986. Despite that "excess" of debt, corporate profits surged for the next two years. In 1987, U.S. corporate pretax profits rose 29.3%. They rose another 21.4% in 1988, for a two-year gain of 57%. (The stock market went in the opposite direction, falling 35% in late 1987, similar to the mid-2002 market collapse, despite growing corporate profits.)

Household debt is the same now (14.4%) as it was in 1986. Even more significant is the breakdown of that debt. The fastest-growing debt sector has been mortgages. Mortgage debt grew by 1,164% between 1985 and 2002 and now accounts for 23% of total U.S. debt. That debt merely reflects the cost of owning a growing asset, your own home. While the mortgage part of household debt service has risen, consumer debt has declined as a percent of total debt. Consumer debt service was 8.48% in 1986, but was down to 7.76% in 2002.

http://www.investorplace.com/free/diw_free_053A.php

[OldJeff]

I think people are confusing this thread, the report is on consumer debt (personal debt by people).

Many are posting about the national debt wich is actually over 7 trillion.

GDP is between 10 and 11 trillion

[Peaches]

Originally posted by OldJeff@Jan 20 2004, 07:42 AM
I think people are confusing this thread, the report is on consumer debt (personal debt by people).

Many are posting about the national debt wich is actually over 7 trillion.

GDP is between 10 and 11 trillion
The 9 million I saw was consumer debt which included mortgages.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3939463/