Swiss Bank Accounts

[Monk]

Anybody have any experience with, or know anything about, Swiss bank accounts?

Is Swiss system still the gold standard for asset protection?
What kind of rules do you have to follow?
What kind of fees?
Any kind of taxation by Swiss on interest, etc.?
Anything else of interest?

...or if you think there is a better country (in terms of asset protection) feel free to offer it up. Caymans?

[Winetalk.com]

what's wrong with USA banking system?
I am a firm beleiver that the USA banking system will fall LAST if it ever happens
;-))))

[Monk]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 07:47 AM
I am a firm beleiver that the USA banking system will fall LAST if it ever happens

I'm not!

:o)

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Monk+Jan 8 2004, 07:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Monk @ Jan 8 2004, 07:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 07:47 AM
I am a firm beleiver that the USA banking system will fall LAST if it ever happens

I'm not!

:o)[/b][/quote]
Monk,
what makes you say that?

[Monk]

1. The coming recession / depression
2. Repatriation of foreign money
2. The US and all of its citizens are in debt to their eyeballs
3. Possible impending derivatives disaster at several major banks
4. Terrorism
5. Inadequate reserves

[Winetalk.com]

1. The coming recession / depression

we are coming OUT of the recession,
not going into one.
US Banking System survived GREAT DEPRESSION, lasting for 30 years...
it has EXPERIENCE to deal with the situation, plus...
NEW BANKING LAWS implemented since than

2. Repatriation of foreign money
I think we got them by the balls,
they CAN NOT do it now, without taking the MAJOR loss....

2. The US and all of its citizens are in debt to their eyeballs
and what are your figures about the rest of the world?
what %% is debt in relation to income?
without those %% the absolute number is meaningless...

3. Possible impending derivatives disaster at several major banks
the rumor perputrated by gold oriented newsletters...

4. Terrorism
do you know ANY country on Earth where terrorists were able to fully acomplish their goals and cause the radical change in the form of government/banking?

5. Inadequate reserves
in whose opinion? newsletters writers?

[Monk]

we are coming OUT of the recession

in whose opinion? some CNBC analyst?


they CAN NOT do it now, without taking the MAJOR loss....

may be true that they would take a major loss... but that is like saying you CAN'T sell ARBA at 80 because it was once 200...... of course you can take the major loss but avoid an even larger one.


and what are your figures about the rest of the world?
what %% is debt in relation to income?..

countries range from similar to better to much better than the US. Asia is fantastic in this area.....


the rumor perputrated by gold oriented newsletters...

why do you think this is a rumor? do you have any basis for that? I have read several articles on the issue and they weren't from gold bugs


Inadequate reserves - in whose opinion? newsletters writers? ...

in MY opinion from reading several different sources. Do you have inside information?



Last edited by Monk at Jan 8 2004, 10:17 AM

[wig]

wealth comes and goes...

super powers come and go...

the USA will be no different...

predicting it is easy... timing it for profit is not easy.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by wig@Jan 8 2004, 10:25 AM
wealth comes and goes...

super powers come and go...

the USA will be no different...

predicting it is easy... timing it for profit is not easy.
wig,
if that be the case,
your money could be safe...your life wouldn't....

so the real question should be:
where one can move WITH his money
;-))

moving just money alone wouldn't do the trick
;-))))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Monk@Jan 8 2004, 10:16 AM
we are coming OUT of the recession

in whose opinion? some CNBC analyst?



and you think 8% GNP rise last quarter was imagination of CNBC?

if you do not quote the government statisitics, or follow it,
I'd wait 'till you enlighten yourself before I argue points with you any futher,
I preffer arguing (at least with people of Oprano) when we are on the SAME level...

[Monk]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 10:30 AM
if that be the case,
your money could be safe...your life wouldn't....

so the real question should be:
where one can move WITH his money

I agree... but you can always send the money first to be safe and go live with it later!!

I wouldn't mind living in Switzerland or the Caymans!!!

[Monk]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 10:32 AM

and you think 8% GNP rise last quarter was imagination of CNBC?

No, I think it was a result of the Fed pumping funny money into the economy at a rate never before seen.

Got any other gov't statistics, Einstein?

[Monk]

Been fun... Serge, you are welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to mine...

....but the point of this thread is.... does anybody have info re: Swiss banking?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Monk+Jan 8 2004, 10:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Monk @ Jan 8 2004, 10:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 10:32 AM

and you think 8% GNP rise last quarter was imagination of CNBC?

No, I think it was a result of the Fed pumping funny money into the economy at a rate never before seen.

Got any other gov't statistics, Einstein?[/b][/quote]
as a matter of fact, I do..
commodity prices, industrial materials prices, real estate prices,
do NOT support your "depression" theory....

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Monk+Jan 8 2004, 10:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Monk @ Jan 8 2004, 10:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 10:30 AM
if that be the case,
your money could be safe...your life wouldn't....

so the real question should be:
where one can move WITH his money

I agree... but you can always send the money first to be safe and go live with it later!!

I wouldn't mind living in Switzerland or the Caymans!!![/b][/quote]
have you ever been there, or you are guessing without real information and hands on experience of living in those countries?

[Monk]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 10:49 AM

have you ever been there, or you are guessing without real information and hands on experience of living in those countries?
...never been there but I know people that live in the Caymans and I know people who have been to Switzerland several times.

But again, that is not the point of this thread. Rather than taking this thread off on tangents, maybe you could just say you do not know anything about the Swiss banking system.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Monk+Jan 8 2004, 11:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Monk @ Jan 8 2004, 11:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 10:49 AM

have you ever been there, or you are guessing without real information and hands on experience of living in those countries?
...never been there but I know people that live in the Caymans and I know people who have been to Switzerland several times.

But again, that is not the point of this thread. Rather than taking this thread off on tangents, maybe you could just say you do not know anything about the Swiss banking system.[/b][/quote]
I don't know anything about offshore banking systems...from Arctica to Antarctica....'cuz I beleive in living WITH my money, and protect my life more than the money.
I have wife and I can live with her in the tent in Oregon woods,
next door to Spanker's bunker
;-))))

[LittleC]

Monk,


I have a Swiss bank account ! wanna have the number ?

:D

[Monk]

Originally posted by LittleC@Jan 8 2004, 11:28 AM
Monk,


I have a Swiss bank account ! wanna have the number ?

:D
Now that's what I'm talkin' bout!!!!

Maybe I can figure it out myself..... Is the number the same as your measurements?

[wig]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jan 8 2004, 10:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jan 8 2004, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--wig@Jan 8 2004, 10:25 AM
wealth comes and goes...

super powers come and go...

the USA will be no different...

predicting it is easy... timing it for profit is not easy.
wig,
if that be the case,
your money could be safe...your life wouldn't....

so the real question should be:
where one can move WITH his money
;-))

moving just money alone wouldn't do the trick
;-))))[/b][/quote]
Serge,

Why would my life be unsafe?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by wig+Jan 8 2004, 12:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (wig @ Jan 8 2004, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 10:30 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--wig@Jan 8 2004, 10:25 AM
wealth comes and goes...

super powers come and go...

the USA will be no different...

predicting it is easy... timing it for profit is not easy.
wig,
if that be the case,
your money could be safe...your life wouldn't....

so the real question should be:
where one can move WITH his money
;-))

moving just money alone wouldn't do the trick
;-))))
Serge,

Why would my life be unsafe?[/b][/quote]
because if one worries about the safety of his money in USA,
it would take the catastrophy of the biblical proportions to lose 'em....

[JR]

Originally posted by Monk@Jan 8 2004, 04:35 AM
Anybody have any experience with, or know anything about, Swiss bank accounts?

Is Swiss system still the gold standard for asset protection?
What kind of rules do you have to follow?
What kind of fees?
Any kind of taxation by Swiss on interest, etc.?
Anything else of interest?

...or if you think there is a better country (in terms of asset protection) feel free to offer it up. Caymans?
No... Switzerland is not the gold standard of anything. They have all sorts of new agreements with the IRS and US Government

there is nothing magic about any jurisdiction anywhere. IRS can get your bank info from Swiss authorities just as easily as they can get your account info from your local bank.

talk to a good tax planning attorney before you do something highly illegal that can't be undone.

[wig]

ok... guess it depends on ones definition of "worry" and "safety".

For instance, I do not worry that the US financial system is a house of cards... as you pointed out, we have most the others by the balls with US$ as reserve currency.

but, i do not discount the fact that whether government(s) like it or not, shit happens. ;-)))

as you pointed out in other threads where you reference Rome, Egyptians, etc.... where are they now?

I feel safe knowing what I know about markets and am not afraid to keep my funds in US, so I feel safe like you do.

All things considered, I agree with you when you spoke about life first and living with LL in a tent.... life would just be one long camping trip and I still have my mule! :D

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by wig@Jan 8 2004, 12:24 PM


All things considered, I agree with you when you spoke about life first and living with LL in a tent.... life would just be one long camping trip and I still have my mule! :D
yeap,
having the experience of having $153 to my name, no job,
no decent English,
prepares one mentally to ALL sorts of eventualities
;-))))

it's not like in the Monk's case:
"I know somebody who knows somebody...."
;-)))))

[wig]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 12:35 PM
yeap,
having the experience of having $153 to my name, no job,
no decent English,
prepares one mentally to ALL sorts of eventualities
;-))))

You have a great story... it would make an interesting book. ;-))

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jan 8 2004, 07:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jan 8 2004, 07:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Monk@Jan 8 2004, 10:16 AM
we are coming OUT of the recession

in whose opinion? some CNBC analyst?



and you think 8% GNP rise last quarter was imagination of CNBC?

if you do not quote the government statisitics, or follow it,
I'd wait 'till you enlighten yourself before I argue points with you any futher,
I preffer arguing (at least with people of Oprano) when we are on the SAME level...[/b][/quote]
:salute:

[jimmyf]

a lot places better than Swiss banking. someone posted already they are in bed with the IRS. open a Swiss bank account, expect a visit from the IRS, that is if you have very much money.

I know some guys that hired a lawyer, opened an account in the Caymans and the IRS knew every thing they did. Cost'em 10K and that was a few years ago, for the lawyer. They knew about every deposit



Last edited by jimmyf at Jan 8 2004, 10:06 AM

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by wig+Jan 8 2004, 12:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (wig @ Jan 8 2004, 12:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jan 8 2004, 12:35 PM
yeap,
having the experience of having $153 to my name, no job,
no decent English,
prepares one mentally to ALL sorts of eventualities
;-))))

You have a great story... it would make an interesting book. ;-))[/b][/quote]
writing book is a hard work.....
I'd rather lose money in shorting SMH vs QQQ longs,
this is EASY!
;-))))

[Monk]

Again, the issue was not tax avoidance or tax minimization.... the money will be tax-paid money.

I am talking sheer asset protection.

[JR]

Originally posted by Monk@Jan 8 2004, 10:47 AM
Again, the issue was not tax avoidance or tax minimization.... the money will be tax-paid money.

I am talking sheer asset protection.
ok... you are talking about business law, trusts etc. not necessarily banking. swiss banks have nothing to do with asset protection. business structures, trusts etc have to do with asset protection.

you dont even need to go offshore. There are numerous ways to use domestic business structures to protect assets. you can even use them put liens against your own property.. making the lien holder (your company) first in line. I had this discussion yesterday over a two hour lunch with my attorney.

otherwise, the laws in all these jurisdictions are highly fluid and changing as are their advantages and disadvantages. it still requires someone with in depth knowledge of EACH JURISDICTION in question, to be able to competently dispense advice on that jurisdiction.

hit me up on ICQ and i will give you a number of someone who can answer every question you have. they are attorneys i deal with and i have referred several other adult companies to them.

89632715



Last edited by JR at Jan 8 2004, 01:39 PM

[iridium]

Anybody have any experience with, or know anything about, Swiss bank accounts?.

Yes

Is Swiss system still the gold standard for asset protection?

It depends what you mean by asset protection. Like in any country, banks can default (some have in the past), and you dont have FDIC insurance like in the US. But it is rather unlikely that any of the major Swiss banks ever default and that includes institutions like Credit Suisse or UBS but also some of the "private banking" players such as Pictet or Lombard Odier

What kind of rules do you have to follow?

The rules have become more and more strict in the past few years, but any foreigner can easily open a personal account with valid identification. You will have to come in person to open an account. They may want disclosure of where money is coming from. Cash deposits in excess of CHF 10,000 require that you sign a form stating the money is clean. (Notice that Switzerland is still and hopefully a cash based society, and moving sums like say 20k in cash does not raise eyebrows like it does elsewhere).

Notice that so called "numbered accounts" are a thing of the distant past... there is no such thing as your information IS on file.

Notice that opening a corporate account is much more difficult unless this is for a swiss based company. You will generally need to be introduced by a swiss lawyer or accounting firm.

What kind of fees?

Fees are extremely low, especially if you deal mostly in wires or cash. To give you an idea, a USD international wire costs around $7.
Issuance of credit cards is more expensive than that of the US.

Any kind of taxation by Swiss on interest, etc.?

None, and whether or not you declare your taxes is none of their business... Tax evasion (of other govs) is not considered a crime (but as someone mentioned earlier, while they do not report, they will talk to the IRS if the IRS seeks information)

BTW dont go there for the interest rates unless 1 or 2 % turns you on ;)

Anything else of interest?
You should get multiple currency accounts, so you can easily trade in EUR USD or CHF without incurring exchange fees.

Internet banking is one of the best i've seen so far. Very secure and powerful.. the US banks' online banking is a joke when you look at what the Swiss banks are offering (logging into BOA is not much safer than loging into a porn site ;)

If you are dealing w private banking, avoid giving your banker a power of attorney on the funds... they are not the best asset managers (who is;) :)

...or if you think there is a better country (in terms of asset protection) feel free to offer it up. Caymans?.

In places like the carribeans you are pretty much gambling unless you select intl institutions like Barclays, Citi or UBS... the local offerings are either high risk or very-high cost or both ;)

Other than that, Luxembourg is know to be good although I'm not familiar w the specifics

[Rolo]

If you want real privacy - away from the IRS, CIA etc., then you could also use the "Hawala" banking system. Its the asian underground banking system, with branches in places you wouldn´t belive :-)

Known as hawala in India, hundi in Pakistan or fei qian in China, Asia's underground banking system is enormous and widespread.

While an ancient form of financial transaction, the secretive “hawala/hundi” system has come to recent scrutiny due to its almost certain usage by terrorist organizations such as Osama Bin Laden’s Al Queda network. While on one hand symbolic of graft, drug trafficking, money-laundering and black money, the hawala system at the same time enjoys both widespread acceptance and widespread usage among much of the population of South Asia and the Middle East. The vast majority of hawala remittances have been routine transactions. Indeed, the vast majority of the hawala transactions occur in country as an affordable means of fund transfer. However, statistically as a whole, the hawala system is a large phenomenon as evidenced by the following numbers:

As much as 60% of money from Burma's drug trade passes through these underground payment system
§ $2 billion to $5 billion moved through the hawala system annually in Pakistan, more than the amount of foreign transfers through the country's banking system

With a mostly deliberate absence of record keeping, these non-bank financial entities leave virtually no trail for investigators to follow. It works like this: A client approaches a local underground dealer in, for example, New Dehli--usually a business like a goldsmith's shop, currency trader or a travel agency. He deposits $10,000 to be remitted to an associate in, for example, Bangkok. The shop in New Dehli, one among hundreds found in every major bazaar, gives the sender a receipt or chit, something as simple as a specially marked movie-ticket stub or a low-value rupee note. The chit is mailed to the Bangkok recipient, who then presents it to an associated goldsmith or travel agent and withdraws the $10,000 in Thai baht. With no banks involved, there is no record of the cross-border transaction.

Veiled in secrecy, performed through personal contacts, lacking records and difficult to prove – the hawala system has often been used as a blunt instrument for accusation by corrupt political candidates, governments and law enforcement agencies to further agendas where the proof of charges is often unnecessary. Much of the myth and murkiness of the hawala system stems from these types of instances.

Read more at http://www.fiducite.com/Fiducitations/Fidu...ng%20System.htm (http://www.fiducite.com/Fiducitations/Fiducitation%20-%20Hawala%20Traditional%20Asian%20Banking%20System .htm)

[JR]

iridium,

you are not protecting money simply because you deposit it in an account somewhere outside the US. it's still declared information. it is still known and proven asset of that individual. you can still go after anyones assets anywhere if you know where they are... it does not matter much where the bank is if it is known what is there, who owns it and is a known fact that that money is under the direct control and ownership of that individual.

if he wants good advice, he should talk to someone who is well informed and experienced in those jurisdictions they specialize in.

[JR]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jan 8 2004, 02:04 PM
If you want real privacy - away from the IRS, CIA etc., then you could also use the "Hawala" banking system. Its the asian underground banking system, with branches in places you wouldn´t belive :-)

Known as hawala in India, hundi in Pakistan or fei qian in China, Asia's underground banking system is enormous and widespread.

While an ancient form of financial transaction, the secretive “hawala/hundi” system has come to recent scrutiny due to its almost certain usage by terrorist organizations such as Osama Bin Laden’s Al Queda network. While on one hand symbolic of graft, drug trafficking, money-laundering and black money, the hawala system at the same time enjoys both widespread acceptance and widespread usage among much of the population of South Asia and the Middle East. The vast majority of hawala remittances have been routine transactions. Indeed, the vast majority of the hawala transactions occur in country as an affordable means of fund transfer. However, statistically as a whole, the hawala system is a large phenomenon as evidenced by the following numbers:

As much as 60% of money from Burma's drug trade passes through these underground payment system
§ $2 billion to $5 billion moved through the hawala system annually in Pakistan, more than the amount of foreign transfers through the country's banking system

With a mostly deliberate absence of record keeping, these non-bank financial entities leave virtually no trail for investigators to follow. It works like this: A client approaches a local underground dealer in, for example, New Dehli--usually a business like a goldsmith's shop, currency trader or a travel agency. He deposits $10,000 to be remitted to an associate in, for example, Bangkok. The shop in New Dehli, one among hundreds found in every major bazaar, gives the sender a receipt or chit, something as simple as a specially marked movie-ticket stub or a low-value rupee note. The chit is mailed to the Bangkok recipient, who then presents it to an associated goldsmith or travel agent and withdraws the $10,000 in Thai baht. With no banks involved, there is no record of the cross-border transaction.

Veiled in secrecy, performed through personal contacts, lacking records and difficult to prove – the hawala system has often been used as a blunt instrument for accusation by corrupt political candidates, governments and law enforcement agencies to further agendas where the proof of charges is often unnecessary. Much of the myth and murkiness of the hawala system stems from these types of instances.

Read more at http://www.fiducite.com/Fiducitations/Fidu...ng%20System.htm (http://www.fiducite.com/Fiducitations/Fiducitation%20-%20Hawala%20Traditional%20Asian%20Banking%20System .htm)
I hope this is sarcasm :)

its highly illegal and the federal government, particularly the FBI and CIA are constantly shutting down these people/networks and arresting them... they are not providing protection against anything.

you might recall that many such networks were shut down right after 9/11... since it is the "western union" of choice for terrorists, arms dealers, smugglers, drug dealers etc.

:)



Last edited by JR at Jan 8 2004, 02:13 PM

[Rolo]

Sorry - I forgot the disclaimer ;-)))

"For educational purpose only - do not try this at home... unless your home is in Kashmir" :yowsa:

[iridium]

Originally posted by JR@Jan 8 2004, 02:09 PM
iridium,

you are not protecting money simply because you deposit it in an account somewhere outside the US. it's still declared information. it is still known and proven asset of that individual. you can still go after anyones assets anywhere if you know where they are... it does not matter much where the bank is if it is known what is there, who owns it and is a known fact that that money is under the direct control and ownership of that individual.

if he wants good advice, he should talk to someone who is well informed and experienced in those jurisdictions they specialize in.
JR,

I was answering his querry as far as his specific questions re Swiss banks.
This has nothing to do with asset protection in the form of creating Trusts, holding companies,... which I agree with you is another matter.
You can still create a trust ance choose to keep the funds in a Swiss bank...

[haui]

Monk,
ya find some basic info on swiss bank accounts here: http://www.switzerlandisyours.com/e/index.html

[masterp74]

If this helps at all, I watch Kudlow & Cramer every day. B) \


And when I was daytrading back in the day(1999) I would get up just to watch Maria Bartiromo

http://www.freeuploads.co.uk/uploads/ar_bartiromo.jpg


I just happened to get lucky and picked some lotto winners. but instead of bank this swiss that, I just spent it. see, now no worries. :unsure:



Last edited by masterp74 at Jan 11 2004, 01:27 PM

[93sc]

The biggest problem I have with the US banks is that they are getting less private than they used to be. http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,61792,00.html Just seems like it's getting easier and easier to see everything.