WiFi and Security Questions

[Dravyk]

Interested in setting up a wireless network in my home. Problem: I'm in a residential area (Philly) with closely grouped houses and concerned about security issues.

There's literally too much info on the Net on this topic (search engine overload) that I've not been able to find what I want about this, ergo this post.

Questions:

1) We hear more and more about WiFi security breakins, downloads, controlling one's computer, identity theft, etc ... is this a case where the security is not there, or the old case of the security is there but most individuals and businesses don't do something relatively easy and necessary?

2) If it's the latter, what should I know? What wireless LAN config/hardware do you use? (And are you in close metropolitan area or have lots of space between houses?)

3) I hear there's different Mhz frequencies, and that the higher is better, but it's newer and costs a lot, true? What's the best to use in my situation?

4) While we're on the subject, what about those public wireless areas. I have the same concerns, can't someone see what's on someone else's laptop in those situations?

[JR]

I was watching a show on the Discovery channel or somewhere where they were talking about the lack of security. To prove the point, a guy wrote a script to capture and decode info on a wireless network in about 10 minutes.

[Buckfutter]

I setup a 802.11b network serveral months ago and I'm pleased with it. I weighed the pros and cons between 11g and 11b and 11g just isn't worth the money for my purposes, and in practice it's not as fast as they make it out to be. Web pages on 11b load about as fast as they do on my wired machine. If you're concerned about security there's a few things you can do. Keep in mind I am by no means a wireless networking guru.

Enable encryption, use a long passphrase.

Lock your wireless lan to MAC addresses.

I only have my laptop on the wireless lan, and my main machine is cat5 into the router setup as a DMZ host (Not affected by the firewall aspect of the router).

If you have a 2.4ghz you may experience some problems. I have a 2.4ghz phone and I haven't had any but apparently some people have.

IMO as long as you take steps to secure your wireless lan I don't think you'll have any problems. It's unlikely someone is going to hijack you.

I bought the linksys starter kit which includes a router with 4 wired ports and an 802.11b pc card, cost about 100 bucks which I thought was a pretty decent deal. You can probably get something cheaper on ebay.

[konduct]

http://www.wardriving.com/

[[Labret]]

I war drive all the time. WEP does prevent me from poking around, only because there is not a windows based wep cracker and I am too lazy to install linux on my laptop (which has a freeware wep cracker for it).

For the truly paranoid, and after my own experiences war driving, I would never go wifi.

I like it because it used to be hassle using 56gay when traveling. Plus the things you find poking around others networks, good shit. I like to send gay porn to their printers before I drive away, if one is available.

[[Labret]]

I hear there's different Mhz frequencies, and that the higher is better, but it's newer and costs a lot, true? What's the best to use in my situation?


Yeah, but that also makes the difference between someone like me sitting in front of your house for a good signal, and being able to do it a block away.

[Winetalk.com]

Dravyk,
I have Bellsouth DSL, which turned my entire house into network via telephone lines already in the house,
every telephone jacl becomes a connection point for the PC.

when friends arrive with laptops, all they have to do is plug them in.

...and there is no gay porn on the printers from strangers for me
;-)))

[LadyMischief]

Wireless networks are VERY insecure. My friend's ex-husband does what he calls "Wardriving". He jsut drives around all night looking for wireless networks and using them to send email etc. Fortunately he's pretty harmless, but there's really nothing preventing people from downloading kiddie pics, beastie porn, shit like that. I would definitely talk to whomever you would want installing the thing to find out what your options are.

[Dravyk]

Appreciate the feedback!

But as there's still a lot left unclear ... some more appreciate please.

Ok, so who says stay away from wireless LANs and who says get one?

If get one, which? The b, the g, or the b/g? And the 900 or the 2.4?

And what about the security features in them? Not there yet, or, again, is the security there but nearly all of the hacking probs are because people are simply too stupid to configure them correctly?

[girlgeek]

Hi Dravyk. Somehow I completely missed this one.

Wireless is too convenient to discard. If you have multiple systems, or just enjoying carrying your laptop from room to room, it is definitely the way to go. 802.11g (54Mbps) is supposed to be backwards compatible with 802.11b (11Mbps), so either one of those should suit your needs. I like the 2.4GHz, but have found that my 2.4GHz cordless phone can interfere with the signal when I am talking on the phone. With 802.11g, you will get to take advantage of the faster transfer rate, while doing data transfers between machines.

As far as hackers taking advantage of poorly configured WAPS, that is true in a lot of cases. These things come with generic admin passwords tht people don't change, and leave them broadcasting the SSID as Linksys, DLink or something that gives the attacker a huge clue as to what the default admin password is. Many people do not enable WEP, and then snivel when their packets are sniffed and they are hacked. Even with WEP, there isn't a key I can't crack within a few hours with tools easily downloaded from the internet.

If you're going to get one, do some reading on IPSec and VPN. It's not hacker-proof, but it's definitely a far better solution that WEP only. Hope this helps.

[Hell Puppy]

A 2.4 Ghz phone will step on your lan if it's a spread spectrum phone...and most of the better ones are. 5.8 Ghz phones are now available, solves the problem easy enough.

Security requires a bit of effort. Too many people have it so you can just cruise by their house and get yourself an IP and be up and running on their network, surfing their shared drives, etc.

This is evolving technology, better security is coming. But for now, at least enable what's there. Use WEP, change your passwords, and make sure your shared drives aren't wide open, etc.

[Peaches]

Here are my questions:

1) How close does someone have to be in order for your WiFi to be susceptible to "war drivers" and
2) Does the signal have to have a line of sight?

My closest neighbor is 150-200+ feet away and he's a part time resident whom I'm sure has no need nor desire to hack into my system. In addition, he's on the corner to the nearest road to me, so even someone "driving" would be that far away.

HOWEVER, the distance is equally as far (and sloped) going away from my house the OTHER way to the lake. So what might keep out interlopers might also work against me in being able to use it down at the dock.

My house is basically one big room, so using it w/in the house would be pointless. Going outside is where I'd see the benefit and I'm not sure I can do it. :(

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by Peaches@Dec 1 2003, 07:46 AM
Here are my questions:

1) How close does someone have to be in order for your WiFi to be susceptible to "war drivers" and
2) Does the signal have to have a line of sight?



Depends on the equipment. With my fucking krad leeto external antenna, I can get weak signals sometimes blocks away.

Line of sight helps the signal quality, but its not a huge factor.

[Nickatilynx]

Dravyk,

Look out for a big fuckoff RV with an areil parked outside your house mailing like a sob!

ahhhh the old days................

LOL

;-)))))

[Peaches]

Originally posted by [Labret]+Dec 1 2003, 11:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ([Labret] @ Dec 1 2003, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@Dec 1 2003, 07:46 AM
Here are my questions:

1) How close does someone have to be in order for your WiFi to be susceptible to "war drivers" and
2) Does the signal have to have a line of sight?



Depends on the equipment. With my fucking krad leeto external antenna, I can get weak signals sometimes blocks away.

Line of sight helps the signal quality, but its not a huge factor.[/b][/quote]
Here's what I'm dealing with:

This is halfway to the lake from the house looking at the house:
http://www.onlinebeach.com/halfway01.jpg

This is looking down from the same spot to the lake:
http://www.onlinebeach.com/halfway02.jpg

And here's the view from the lake to the house:
http://www.onlinebeach.com/upfromdock01.jpg

It's approximately 150-200 feet from the house to the lake.

I hate to spend $$$ on something and then find out it's totally useless. :angry:

[Edd]

Peaches -

for the "entry level" equipment such as linksys or dlink devices, the distance isn't the only issue... ELEVATION will also play a factor... and you seem to be dealing with a bit of a grade in that location... Honestly, I don't think a 75$ WAP and a card in your laptop will do what you want... you need a much more robust setup - like something from Buffalo Tech - http://www.buffalotech.com/wireless/index.php - they make "outdoor" equipment - which it seems you will need... :bwave:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Edd@Dec 1 2003, 12:22 PM
Peaches -

for the "entry level" equipment such as linksys or dlink devices, the distance isn't the only issue... ELEVATION will also play a factor... and you seem to be dealing with a bit of a grade in that location... Honestly, I don't think a 75$ WAP and a card in your laptop will do what you want... you need a much more robust setup - like something from Buffalo Tech - http://www.buffalotech.com/wireless/index.php - they make "outdoor" equipment - which it seems you will need... :bwave:
Yeah, that was my fear. :( Like I said, what keeps me from likely being hacked into, is also my problem in making it do what I want. :angry:

Thanks for the link. I'll probably look into it more when spring hits. :gbounce:

[Olivier]

I'm gonna test a 2.4Ghz phone on a 2.4Ghz wifi network. just to see if it's going to be a mess!

I'll keep you posted!

[Dravyk]

Appreciate all the insight here, folks!

My 900mhz phone works just fine so I'll make my lan the 2.4Ghz and won't have any probs. I'll also do what GirlGeek said too.

Dravyk, Look out for a big fuckoff RV with an areil parked outside your house mailing like a sob!
Three things I don't want to see outside my house:

a) a black van with plates from Virginia

b) an RV with plates from British Columbia

c) my 14 year old neighbor next door on his patio looking at my content directories

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Peaches+Dec 1 2003, 11:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Dec 1 2003, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Edd@Dec 1 2003, 12:22 PM
Peaches -

for the "entry level" equipment such as linksys or dlink devices, the distance isn't the only issue... ELEVATION will also play a factor... and you seem to be dealing with a bit of a grade in that location... Honestly, I don't think a 75$ WAP and a card in your laptop will do what you want... you need a much more robust setup - like something from Buffalo Tech - http://www.buffalotech.com/wireless/index.php - they make "outdoor" equipment - which it seems you will need... :bwave:
Yeah, that was my fear. :( Like I said, what keeps me from likely being hacked into, is also my problem in making it do what I want. :angry:

Thanks for the link. I'll probably look into it more when spring hits. :gbounce:[/b][/quote]
Edd beat me to it.... I concur, if you wanna be sure and not waste a lot of time and money, just put in a good pro level outdoor rig to begin with and you'll get to the lake with no problem.

With something like a linksys, you *might* get there with an external antenna and the signal booster. My hunch is you'd end up getting to like the last 4 steps leading down to the lake and lose signal right there....just close enough to be totally frustrating.

[Olivier]

Originally posted by Olivier@Dec 1 2003, 01:48 PM
I'm gonna test a 2.4Ghz phone on a 2.4Ghz wifi network. just to see if it's going to be a mess!

I'll keep you posted!
It works like a charm! :D

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Olivier+Dec 2 2003, 09:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Olivier @ Dec 2 2003, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Olivier@Dec 1 2003, 01:48 PM
I'm gonna test a 2.4Ghz phone on a 2.4Ghz wifi network. just to see if it's going to be a mess!

I'll keep you posted!
It works like a charm! :D[/b][/quote]
Cool! How's it going, Olivier? Welcome to Hell, er, Oprano. :bwave: