Partial Birth Abortion is WRONG!

[Squirt]

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-birth.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-abort1.jpg

I apologize for the images.. but it's important to know the reality of what we're talking about. After going to this site (http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit) and reading up on the actual process of partial birth abortion and how it's used I've decided it's wrong. Only in extreme situations could it ever be allowed. It's so sad. As a father I wish I could've taken all these babies into my home. What a tragedy.

Is there anyone here who thinks partial birth abortion should be utilized as a form of birth control?




Last edited by Squirt at Nov 10 2003, 04:13 AM

[Winetalk.com]

no arguments from me...

[spazlabz]

:barfon:

[Kittyfuzz]

I don't think it should. I am not totally against abortion, however, this is just wrong in every sense of the word. That makes me just want to cry. I can't have children anymore, and I would have given anything to have them.

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge

[Peaches]

My mother is an OB-GYN nurse midwife who works at two hospitals and teaches classes at two colleges in town.

I've spoken to her at length about this. Her experience (and she's been either an OB-GYN nurse or a nurse midwife for almost 35 years) has been that mothers who have late term abortions are NOT doing it for birth control. Everyone she's ever dealt with has wanted the baby desperately, spent a lot of time agonizing over the decision and were devastated that it had to end that way. In every case the child would not have lived outside the womb and many could have caused the mother to die or require major surgery if she had continued to keep the baby until full term.

The new law is obviously very arbitrary regarding what they consider "the health of the mother" exception as proven by judges who KNOW the law filing against it. My Mom made the point that the women who are having late term abortions performed for birth control will do exactly what the women who want early term abortions performed will do if they were outlawed - they WOULD find a doctor to perform them.

It's not a pretty thing for anyone to have to deal with, but again, I'm going by what she's telling me and she has no reason to lie. They are necessities in every situation she's witnessed and I find it hard to believe the rest of the country is that much different. :(



Last edited by Peaches at Nov 10 2003, 09:11 AM

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Kittyfuzz@Nov 10 2003, 04:48 AM
I don't think it should. I am not totally against abortion, however, this is just wrong in every sense of the word. That makes me just want to cry. I can't have children anymore, and I would have given anything to have them.

Diagrams of the exact process are here: http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit


I agree. It's amazing how they do this. They pull the baby out by it's legs. Leave the head in the vagina while they cut open the back of the neck with scissors. Then they use the suction tube to suck the babies brain out. All this while the baby is flailing it's arms and legs.

Diagrams of the exact process are here: http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit

[Trev]

Originally posted by J'springer+Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'springer @ Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge[/b][/quote]
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion!

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 05:10 AM
My mother is an OB-GYN nurse midwife who works at two hospitals and teaches classes at two colleges in town.

I've spoken to her at length about this. Her experience (and she's been either an OB-GYN nurse or a nurse midwife for almost 35 years) has been that mothers who have late term abortions are NOT doing it for birth control. Everyone she's ever dealt with has wanted the baby desperately, spent a lot of time agonizing over the decision and were devastated that it had to end that way. In every case the child would not have lived outside the womb and many could have caused the mother to die or require major surgery if she had continued to keep the baby until full term.

The new law is obviously very arbitrary regarding what they consider "the health of the mother" exception as proven by judges who KNOW the law filing against it. My Mom made the point that the women who are having late term abortions performed for birth control will do exactly what the women who want early term abortions performed will do if they were outlawed - they WOULD find a doctor to perform them.

It's not a pretty thing for anyone to have to deal with, but again, I'm going by what she's telling me and she has no reason to lie. They are necessities in every situation she's witnessed and I find it hard to believe the rest of the country is that much different. :(


I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.



Last edited by Squirt at Nov 10 2003, 05:20 AM

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 08:13 AM
I agree. It's amazing how they do this. They pull the baby out by it's legs. Leave the head in the vagina while they cut open the back of the neck with scissors. Then they use the suction tube to suck the babies brain out. All this while the baby is flailing it's arms and legs.

Squirt.... (I knew you would have pics, so I jumped past them without looking)...

The description you wrote is graphic enough to convince most people.....

and in most cases, when it comes to partial birth abortions, I believe you are preaching to the choir.....

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Trev+Nov 10 2003, 05:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Nov 10 2003, 05:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion![/b][/quote]
Hey Trev, you gotta do better than that. The abortion comment was jr. high....but I detect an English accent here.....shame about your O levels mate.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by sarettah+Nov 10 2003, 05:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ Nov 10 2003, 05:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 08:13 AM
I agree. It's amazing how they do this. They pull the baby out by it's legs. Leave the head in the vagina while they cut open the back of the neck with scissors. Then they use the suction tube to suck the babies brain out. All this while the baby is flailing it's arms and legs.

Squirt.... (I knew you would have pics, so I jumped past them without looking)...

The description you wrote is graphic enough to convince most people.....

and in most cases, when it comes to partial birth abortions, I believe you are preaching to the choir.....[/b][/quote]

Well I think the pictures document the reality of it and leave nothing to the imagination.. which is important when discussing human life/death. People can have moral/ethical discussions.. but when you see the result of peoples actions.. it puts things in perspective.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Trev+Nov 10 2003, 08:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Nov 10 2003, 08:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion![/b][/quote]
even partial would do
;-)))

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 10 2003, 05:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 10 2003, 05:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Trev@Nov 10 2003, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion!
even partial would do
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Yeah, more russian birth control, serge. I hear they do them in SPID clinics now....out at Spidway....

[Winetalk.com]

do you always inhale when you suck cock?

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 05:27 AM
do you always inhale when you suck cock?
I heard he gargles.

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 05:27 AM
do you always inhale when you suck cock?
Don't you?

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 08:24 AM
Well I think the pictures document the reality of it and leave nothing to the imagination.. which is important when discussing human life/death. People can have moral/ethical discussions.. but when you see the result of peoples actions.. it puts things in perspective.
Perhaps so....

But in reality, the "in your face" attitude and tactics that are used by the "right gto lifers" is what loses the argument for them many times....

We are intelligent people for the most part, capable of making decisions, capable of reasoning....

When shit is shoved in my face, I will often just turn the other way....

I do not need to see every bad thing in the world to know they are bad....

Besides, a textual description and one's own imagination can usually give a much more disturbing picture than reality ever can.....

just imo of course.....

[Squirt]

Originally posted by J'springer+Nov 10 2003, 05:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'springer @ Nov 10 2003, 05:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Trev@Nov 10 2003, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion!
Hey Trev, you gotta do better than that. The abortion comment was jr. high....but I detect an English accent here.....shame about your O levels mate.[/b][/quote]


Mate.. I love that word! Here in Oz all the guys say it.. especially the new one I just filmed. Nothing like these hot Aussie guys man!

http://www.thextrials.com/NextWeekDJ.jpg

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 08:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 08:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 05:27 AM
do you always inhale when you suck cock?
I heard he gargles.[/b][/quote]
he does....
;-((( what alow class thing to do....
;-)))

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 10 2003, 05:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 10 2003, 05:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 08:28 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 05:27 AM
do you always inhale when you suck cock?
I heard he gargles.
he does....
;-((( what alow class thing to do....
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Aww I'm sorry Serge, I know you like 'em classy.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by sarettah+Nov 10 2003, 05:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ Nov 10 2003, 05:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 08:24 AM
Well I think the pictures document the reality of it and leave nothing to the imagination.. which is important when discussing human life/death. People can have moral/ethical discussions.. but when you see the result of peoples actions.. it puts things in perspective.
Perhaps so....

But in reality, the "in your face" attitude and tactics that are used by the "right gto lifers" is what loses the argument for them many times....

We are intelligent people for the most part, capable of making decisions, capable of reasoning....

When shit is shoved in my face, I will often just turn the other way....

I do not need to see every bad thing in the world to know they are bad....

Besides, a textual description and one's own imagination can usually give a much more disturbing picture than reality ever can.....

just imo of course.....[/b][/quote]

To some degree you're right. It's the American way... bury your head in the sand and don't see the reality of the world until someone shoves it in your face... or flies a plane full of people into a building... etc etc.

To not see something is to not acknowledge it's true existance. There are many beautiful things in our world as well. This topic is just not an easy one to see as it really is.

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by -Trev@Nov 10 2003, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion!
Hey Trev, you gotta do better than that. The abortion comment was jr. high....but I detect an English accent here.....shame about your O levels mate.


Mate.. I love that word! Here in Oz all the guys say it.. especially the new one I just filmed. Nothing like these hot Aussie guys man!

http://www.thextrials.com/NextWeekDJ.jpg[/b][/quote]
Oh yeah....Aussie....I was close; an antedeluvian wannabe Englishmen. Done your OS to the mother country yet? I know where you can get a good deal on a vw bus, fill it with "front wheelers" nudge nudge, say no more....say NO MORE"... and a backpack.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.[/b][/quote]
Yeah this is pretty much my take on it.. As horrible as the practice is, I can't say that if a situation were that desperate, that the option shouldn't be there for women. Most of the dumb little bitches who use abortion as birth control do it immediately, they don't wait until the baby is bigger or older. Sure, there are a few bad apples, but that does not dismiss the fact that for some women, the proceedure is a heart-wrenching, but neccessary and life-saving one.

It's a horrible world, and horrible things happen. I think it's just as barbaric and disgusting for women who really don't want children, or have children so they can stay on welfare, abuse, mistreat, and neglect their children.

[LadyMischief]

For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.[/b][/quote]

These are babies that are not developing correctly:

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah3.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-trip.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono6.jpg

[Trev]

Originally posted by J'springer+Nov 10 2003, 03:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'springer @ Nov 10 2003, 03:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Trev@Nov 10 2003, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion!
Hey Trev, you gotta do better than that. The abortion comment was jr. high....but I detect an English accent here.....shame about your O levels mate.[/b][/quote]
Not wanting to detract from the intention of this thread I felt that I should reply to you here:

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?s...t=ST&f=1&t=6923 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?s=852a6ad6c2d0090c467a2d1271de2900&act=ST&f=1&t=6923)

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.

These are babies that are not developing correctly:

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah3.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-trip.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono6.jpg[/b][/quote]
Obvious physical defects are NOT the only ways a fetus can develop incorrectly.. There are a MULTITUDE of medical complications that can occur that can quickly cause death after the birth of the child, and not all of them are visible.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.[/b][/quote]


I couldn't imagine having to go through what she did. But the first pictures I showed were healthy babies. Nothing appeared wrong with them.

There is always the exception.. and the end result is bad.. no matter how you look at it. I still maintain that it's a womans right to decide to do with her body, and what is growing in her body, what she wishes. This partial birth abortion thing really stretches the limit though. I mean.. if a woman is going to allow a doctor to pull this baby out.. all the way so only the head is in.. then technically it's in our world and subect to the rights of a normal human being. What do you think about this?

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:38 AM
For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).


I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?

[Squirt]

Originally posted by J'springer+Nov 10 2003, 05:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'springer @ Nov 10 2003, 05:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by -Trev@Nov 10 2003, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:18 AM
no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
After reading your posts both here and over at ammasters I can only say that you are the perfect advert for abortion!
Hey Trev, you gotta do better than that. The abortion comment was jr. high....but I detect an English accent here.....shame about your O levels mate.


Mate.. I love that word! Here in Oz all the guys say it.. especially the new one I just filmed. Nothing like these hot Aussie guys man!

http://www.thextrials.com/NextWeekDJ.jpg
Oh yeah....Aussie....I was close; an antedeluvian wannabe Englishmen. Done your OS to the mother country yet? I know where you can get a good deal on a vw bus, fill it with "front wheelers" nudge nudge, say no more....say NO MORE"... and a backpack.[/b][/quote]


LOL... okay.. yeah I'm an American here in Oz.. love the Mates! yum yum!

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.


I couldn't imagine having to go through what she did. But the first pictures I showed were healthy babies. Nothing appeared wrong with them.

There is always the exception.. and the end result is bad.. no matter how you look at it. I still maintain that it's a womans right to decide to do with her body, and what is growing in her body, what she wishes. This partial birth abortion thing really stretches the limit though. I mean.. if a woman is going to allow a doctor to pull this baby out.. all the way so only the head is in.. then technically it's in our world and subect to the rights of a normal human being. What do you think about this?[/b][/quote]
Unfortunately you are taking the viewpoint that all the women getting this procedure are doing so as birth control, which is NOT the case.. Peaches is like me I believe in this. I would not want to see a perfectly healthy baby and a perfectly healthy mother go through this procedure. Really though this is a last resort, and a large majority of the women who have it done have REAL medical reasons for it, and don't come to the decision easily. It's easy to cast stones when you're on the other side of the fence.. But could you look into your wife's eyes and tell her that her AND the child should die because partial birth abortion is wrong, and you would never allow the procedure even to save her life? You never know when it can happen to you. There is black, there is white, and then there are all the shades of grey in between. Everyone could argue until they are blue in the face, and everyone has their feelings, but the facts remain NOBODY is 100% right.



Last edited by LadyMischief at Nov 10 2003, 05:53 AM

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:44 AM
I couldn't imagine having to go through what she did. But the first pictures I showed were healthy babies. Nothing appeared wrong with them.
And you received your medical degree from where? And you examined these babies when? And you're 100% positive the pictures are exactly what the site claims they are? :unsure:

There is always the exception.. and the end result is bad.. no matter how you look at it. I still maintain that it's a womans right to decide to do with her body, and what is growing in her body, what she wishes. This partial birth abortion thing really stretches the limit though.
But it's OK if the baby dies a horrible death when it's fuller to term (which, in my Mom's experience, they will ALL do) and the mother has a possibility of dying with it.

I mean.. if a woman is going to allow a doctor to pull this baby out.. all the way so only the head is in.. then technically it's in our world and subect to the rights of a normal human being. What do you think about this?
You mean the right to die upon birth and possibly kill or render the mother sterile in the process?

Sorry, but having a friend go through this process and having a Mother with decades of experience, I tend to believe what they tell me before believing a male with website links.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 05:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 05:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.

These are babies that are not developing correctly:

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah3.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-trip.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono6.jpg
Obvious physical defects are NOT the only ways a fetus can develop incorrectly.. There are a MULTITUDE of medical complications that can occur that can quickly cause death after the birth of the child, and not all of them are visible.[/b][/quote]


Right. That being said these women decided to give birth to these things.. was that right? Or would have abortion been a better option?

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:38 AM
For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).


I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?[/b][/quote]
Ahh see that is illegal here. There is a limit to the number of abortions a woman can have here for non-medical reasons. And even then, they attempt to have a woman go through several other alternatives (such as counselling and adoption is also pushed hard) before they allow it.

I've already made my opinion pretty clear though on what I feel about those women. It's a slap in the face to women like me who wanted desperately to have children, but have nothing but trouble. I almost died having my first two and this third will be my last, and the medical complications will be huge. People who take children and their lives for granted make me physically ill.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.

These are babies that are not developing correctly:

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah3.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-other-dah2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-trip.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mono6.jpg
Obvious physical defects are NOT the only ways a fetus can develop incorrectly.. There are a MULTITUDE of medical complications that can occur that can quickly cause death after the birth of the child, and not all of them are visible.


Right. That being said these women decided to give birth to these things.. was that right? Or would have abortion been a better option?[/b][/quote]
That decision isn't for me to judge them on, though, is it? I have no idea of their situations or beliefs.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:50 AM
Right. That being said these women decided to give birth to these things.. was that right? Or would have abortion been a better option?
It should be the mother's choice.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 05:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 05:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 05:32 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:19 AM
I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.


I couldn't imagine having to go through what she did. But the first pictures I showed were healthy babies. Nothing appeared wrong with them.

There is always the exception.. and the end result is bad.. no matter how you look at it. I still maintain that it's a womans right to decide to do with her body, and what is growing in her body, what she wishes. This partial birth abortion thing really stretches the limit though. I mean.. if a woman is going to allow a doctor to pull this baby out.. all the way so only the head is in.. then technically it's in our world and subect to the rights of a normal human being. What do you think about this?
Unfortunately you are taking the viewpoint that all the women getting this proceedure are doing so as birth control, which is NOT the case.. Peaches is like me I believe in this. I would not want to see a perfectly healthy baby and a perfectly healthy mother go through this proceedure. Really though this is a last resort, and a large majority of the women who have it done have REAL medical reasons for it, and don't come to the decision easily. It's easy to cast stones when you're on the other side of the fence.. But could you look into your wife's eyes and tell her that her AND the child should die because partial birth abortion is wrong, and you would never allow the proceedure even to save her life? You never know when it can happen to you. There is black, there is white, and then there are all the shades of grey in between. Everyone could argue until they are blue in the face, and everyone has their feelings, but the facts remain NOBODY is 100% right.[/b][/quote]


I'm not at all under the impression that all women are doing this for birth control. That being said.. partial birth abortion is a medical procedure that by it's definition is "controling" the birth of a child. Terminating a pregnancy before full term is abortion. I think abortion is up to the woman. It's her right to do with her body as she pleases. period. All of us have an innate right to control our own bodies. Whether a woman kills the baby in her for serious medical reasons or just because it's inconvenient .. that is her right. There are good reasons to abort and their are bad reasons.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM
I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?
She should be sterilized.

I'm all for abortion, but when people start using it as chronic birth control it's time to start sterilizing.

[LadyMischief]

I honestly wish it wasn't a woman's right to kill a baby just because she was a dumb slut who didn't take a pill or didn't insist on a condom. I wish it was a perfect world and those women had to give their children to loving adoptive families who couldn't have their own children and will ensure the baby has a good home. It's not a perfect world though. How I wish it was, especially for my kid's sake.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:38 AM
For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).


I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?
Ahh see that is illegal here. There is a limit to the number of abortions a woman can have here for non-medical reasons. And even then, they attempt to have a woman go through several other alternatives (such as counselling and adoption is also pushed hard) before they allow it.

I've already made my opinion pretty clear though on what I feel about those women. It's a slap in the face to women like me who wanted desperately to have children, but have nothing but trouble. I almost died having my first two and this third will be my last, and the medical complications will be huge. People who take children and their lives for granted make me physically ill.[/b][/quote]

Yes but their decisions and beliefs is what brought this child into the world in this state... and for what? It all comes down to selfish reasons on the mother part. I'm not saying selfish reasons are bad. But she made the choice to bring the child into the world.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by FATPad+Nov 10 2003, 05:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FATPad @ Nov 10 2003, 05:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM
I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?
She should be sterilized.

I'm all for abortion, but when people start using it as chronic birth control it's time to start sterilizing.[/b][/quote]
Fucking rights she should be.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:38 AM
For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).


I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?
Ahh see that is illegal here. There is a limit to the number of abortions a woman can have here for non-medical reasons. And even then, they attempt to have a woman go through several other alternatives (such as counselling and adoption is also pushed hard) before they allow it.

I've already made my opinion pretty clear though on what I feel about those women. It's a slap in the face to women like me who wanted desperately to have children, but have nothing but trouble. I almost died having my first two and this third will be my last, and the medical complications will be huge. People who take children and their lives for granted make me physically ill.

Yes but their decisions and beliefs is what brought this child into the world in this state... and for what? It all comes down to selfish reasons on the mother part. I'm not saying selfish reasons are bad. But she made the choice to bring the child into the world.[/b][/quote]
I'm talking about the mothers who decide to give birth to deformed babies.. It's their decision, and nobody can really judge them based on that decision, just like it wouldn't be my right to judge them if they had terminated the pregnancy. Some people handle those situations better than others.. Some have strong religious beliefs on the subject. It's not always about selfishness. I think some people are so quick to judge, but sometimes it's the things we don't know about that are the deciding factors. If a woman is just a slut who is too stupid to use birth control, that makes itself pretty obvious, but like I say there are elements to every situation that are contributing factors. I would never force a child who was pregnant due to rape to have a baby.. would you? I don't think it would be selfish for that child to be spared that.. I'm a situationalist, I guess. It all depends on the situation and motivation at the time.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 09:44 AM
I couldn't imagine having to go through what she did. But the first pictures I showed were healthy babies. Nothing appeared wrong with them.
And you received your medical degree from where? And you examined these babies when? And you're 100% positive the pictures are exactly what the site claims they are? :unsure:

There is always the exception.. and the end result is bad.. no matter how you look at it. I still maintain that it's a womans right to decide to do with her body, and what is growing in her body, what she wishes. This partial birth abortion thing really stretches the limit though.
But it's OK if the baby dies a horrible death when it's fuller to term (which, in my Mom's experience, they will ALL do) and the mother has a possibility of dying with it.

I mean.. if a woman is going to allow a doctor to pull this baby out.. all the way so only the head is in.. then technically it's in our world and subect to the rights of a normal human being. What do you think about this?
You mean the right to die upon birth and possibly kill or render the mother sterile in the process?

Sorry, but having a friend go through this process and having a Mother with decades of experience, I tend to believe what they tell me before believing a male with website links.[/b][/quote]


My sex has nothing to do with my viewpoints. I stated that the babies "appeared" to be normal. You don't need a medical degree to state that something appears normal.

Babies in a trashbag signifies how some view these children. I view them differently. I cherish life and if a child of mine died.. it would not end up in a trash can. No matter how it died. I would respect the memory of my dead child and give it the dignity of a burial.

I also stated that there are always exceptions and that ultimately it's the mothers choice. So if you think I'm "sexist" or something because I feel it's the womans right to choose then so be it. I don't have to have tits, ovaries and a vagina to know the difference between right and wrong.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:56 AM
I honestly wish it wasn't a woman's right to kill a baby just because she was a dumb slut who didn't take a pill or didn't insist on a condom. I wish it was a perfect world and those women had to give their children to loving adoptive families who couldn't have their own children and will ensure the baby has a good home. It's not a perfect world though. How I wish it was, especially for my kid's sake.

I hear you on that one. All I can do is raise my son with a respect for life and help him learn how to make good choices. Top of the list is birth control.. then choosing a partner with strong character.. etc etc.. good choices can help lessen the chances of ending up with a woman that will kill your child. :rokk:

[Carrie]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 08:38 AM
For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).
I second that with every fiber of my being.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 06:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 06:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:38 AM
For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).


I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?
Ahh see that is illegal here. There is a limit to the number of abortions a woman can have here for non-medical reasons. And even then, they attempt to have a woman go through several other alternatives (such as counselling and adoption is also pushed hard) before they allow it.

I've already made my opinion pretty clear though on what I feel about those women. It's a slap in the face to women like me who wanted desperately to have children, but have nothing but trouble. I almost died having my first two and this third will be my last, and the medical complications will be huge. People who take children and their lives for granted make me physically ill.

Yes but their decisions and beliefs is what brought this child into the world in this state... and for what? It all comes down to selfish reasons on the mother part. I'm not saying selfish reasons are bad. But she made the choice to bring the child into the world.
I'm talking about the mothers who decide to give birth to deformed babies.. It's their decision, and nobody can really judge them based on that decision, just like it wouldn't be my right to judge them if they had terminated the pregnancy. Some people handle those situations better than others.. Some have strong religious beliefs on the subject. It's not always about selfishness. I think some people are so quick to judge, but sometimes it's the things we don't know about that are the deciding factors. If a woman is just a slut who is too stupid to use birth control, that makes itself pretty obvious, but like I say there are elements to every situation that are contributing factors. I would never force a child who was pregnant due to rape to have a baby.. would you? I don't think it would be selfish for that child to be spared that.. I'm a situationalist, I guess. It all depends on the situation and motivation at the time.[/b][/quote]


Right.. I think our wires are getting crossed here. The "selfishness" thing was in reference to the drug baby picture... selfish doing drugs while pregnant.. then carrying the baby to term.

Given the correct set of circumstances every human being has the ability to kill another. It's been proven.

These woman are killing their babies... I could make it a nice term "terminating pregancies" "aborting" etc. But the end result, no matter how you sugar coat it , is a dead baby. And let me re-iterate again. I am not against these women killing their babies. Sometimes you have to do it for all the right reasons.

[LadyMischief]

Yeah doing drugs while pregnant is selfish, as is drinking alcohol etc.. Those poor kids never had a chance to begin with. It's too bad there isn't some kind of test that people have to take before getting pregnant, and some master switch somewhere that turns her ability to concieve on and off. :)

[Carrie]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 08:29 AM
http://www.thextrials.com/NextWeekDJ.jpg
Btw... tell me this is one of the straight ones. Yummy. I could lick that for hours :P

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 06:15 AM
Yeah doing drugs while pregnant is selfish, as is drinking alcohol etc.. Those poor kids never had a chance to begin with. It's too bad there isn't some kind of test that people have to take before getting pregnant, and some master switch somewhere that turns her ability to concieve on and off. :)

I wish there was some kind of test.. but then again.. things like this can't be tested for:

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-rec01.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-porod5.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-inter1.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-mer2.jpg

http://www.den94ek.cz/peklo/pic/pic-def-minipredkus.jpg

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Carrie+Nov 10 2003, 06:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Carrie @ Nov 10 2003, 06:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 08:29 AM
http://www.thextrials.com/NextWeekDJ.jpg
Btw... tell me this is one of the straight ones. Yummy. I could lick that for hours :P[/b][/quote]


Yeah.. straight as an arrow *sigh* you girls always get the cute ones :(

I'm shooting him again on Friday.. I'll write Carrie on his ass and take some pics for you :) An early christmas present :)

Any special message you want me to write.. or just your name?



Last edited by Squirt at Nov 10 2003, 06:28 AM

[Carrie]

Ackkk... hehe
Just a smile and a wave will do :)

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 06:36 AM
Ackkk... hehe
Just a smile and a wave will do :)


Ah you're not fun! I'll think of something.

Have you ever seen "The Pillow Book" with Ewan McCgregor (sp) ?

Total full nutidy of him in it.. it's an awesome Japanese story... one of my favorites.

You should check it out. Last time I checked Blockbuster had it.

[Vick]

While the feelings about the subject of this thread are very strong I could live without seeing it this morning - or any other

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 06:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 06:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 06:36 AM
Ackkk... hehe
Just a smile and a wave will do :)


Ah you're not fun! I'll think of something.

Have you ever seen "The Pillow Book" with Ewan McCgregor (sp) ?

Total full nutidy of him in it.. it's an awesome Japanese story... one of my favorites.

You should check it out. Last time I checked Blockbuster had it.[/b][/quote]
Ewan MacGregor naked you say? ON MY WAY!!

[Peaches]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 10:58 AM
Ewan MacGregor naked you say? ON MY WAY!!
It's a very interesting and good movie besides EMc being naked. :)

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 07:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 07:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 10:58 AM
Ewan MacGregor naked you say? ON MY WAY!!
It's a very interesting and good movie besides EMc being naked. :)[/b][/quote]
After I heard good ole Ewan singing... I've been in extreme lust ever since.. That man could have me do pretty much anything for him after hearing "My gift is my soooooooooooooooong" :)

I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 11:17 AM
I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 45 minutes of MR - Ewan or no Ewan. :barfon:

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 07:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 07:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 11:17 AM
I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 45 minutes of MR - Ewan or no Ewan. :barfon:[/b][/quote]
I enjoy those kind of flicks though from time to time. That and I have an excrutiatingly massive crush on Nicole Kidman.

[Carrie]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 10:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 10:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 11:17 AM
I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 45 minutes of MR - Ewan or no Ewan. :barfon:[/b][/quote]
You made it longer than I did. I think I got to 15 minutes. They were in the club and Nicole had just finished ....singing? Yowling?

But I do so love the MR video with Pink, Maya, Lil' Kim and Christina :okthumb: (can't forget Missy too!)

[Carrie]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 10:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 07:28 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 11:17 AM
I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 45 minutes of MR - Ewan or no Ewan. :barfon:
I enjoy those kind of flicks though from time to time. That and I have an excrutiatingly massive crush on Nicole Kidman.[/b][/quote]
Nicole is definitely to die for, with that pale skin and those long luscious strawberry curls... my hubby would give me up in an instant just for one night with her :D

[Trev]

Originally posted by Carrie+Nov 10 2003, 07:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Carrie @ Nov 10 2003, 07:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 07:28 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 11:17 AM
I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 45 minutes of MR - Ewan or no Ewan. :barfon:
I enjoy those kind of flicks though from time to time. That and I have an excrutiatingly massive crush on Nicole Kidman.
Nicole is definitely to die for, with that pale skin and those long luscious strawberry curls... my hubby would give me up in an instant just for one night with her :D[/b][/quote]
Nicole Kidman :barfon:

far too undernourished :blink:

[Nickatilynx]

I agree with Vick.

[Carrie]

Nowadays she is Trev, but she used to be curvier. Think back to when she did that movie with Tom Cruise and they were settling the West. Can't remember what it's called, of course.

Still, with a week of good food she'd have her nice hips back and a natural blush in her cheeks :awinky:

[Trev]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 08:14 PM
Nowadays she is Trev, but she used to be curvier. Think back to when she did that movie with Tom Cruise and they were settling the West. Can't remember what it's called, of course.

Still, with a week of good food she'd have her nice hips back and a natural blush in her cheeks :awinky:
One film she did do it for me was Dead Calm... much more of a figure back then :)

[codymc12]

I wish I could say I was going to be able to stick around after posting this - but I have to leave for the afternoon. Even so, I wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents (don't we all?).

My view is simple: Everyone can have an opinion - but no one should be able to LEGALLY enforce thier opinions on a mother to be. Period.

People can make all kinds of comments about how Mom's who abort should be sterilized, and so on. Or start debates about whether abortion is murder, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line - if you're not THAT person, carrying THAT baby - you shouldn't have a say in what THAT mother decides to do. It's her life, not yours.

We can dissaprove of a persons life choices all we want - and even be right about it. But we shouldn't be able to tell them not to make those choices - it is their life, after all.

Along those lines - with respect to the women who have posted their views - it's an interesting statistic that the greater majority of pro life activists are single men. In other words, men who don't carry a child, and haven't even committed to marriage. As a married man who prefers women strong and free, I find this statistic appalling.

Just my 2 cents. Debate - fine. Prosecute - a violation of personal liberties.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by codymc12@Nov 10 2003, 10:39 AM
I wish I could say I was going to be able to stick around after posting this - but I have to leave for the afternoon. Even so, I wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents (don't we all?).

My view is simple: Everyone can have an opinion - but no one should be able to LEGALLY enforce thier opinions on a mother to be. Period.

People can make all kinds of comments about how Mom's who abort should be sterilized, and so on. Or start debates about whether abortion is murder, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line - if you're not THAT person, carrying THAT baby - you shouldn't have a say in what THAT mother decides to do. It's her life, not yours.

We can dissaprove of a persons life choices all we want - and even be right about it. But we shouldn't be able to tell them not to make those choices - it is their life, after all.

Along those lines - with respect to the women who have posted their views - it's an interesting statistic that the greater majority of pro life activists are single men. In other words, men who don't carry a child, and haven't even committed to marriage. As a married man who prefers women strong and free, I find this statistic appalling.

Just my 2 cents. Debate - fine. Prosecute - a violation of personal liberties.
I agree with you to a Point... when a mother-to-be, however, is abusing the system by consistantly having "birth control abortions", they are taking away from others who actually need medical attention. THAT would be where I draw the line. That's pretty much how it is in Canada. You are allowed a maximum of 4 state-funded abortions before you have to pay out of pocket, and I believe there's a cap on the number thereafter as well. But yes, it's up to the mother and for a government to tell her what she can do with her body is a crime.

[codymc12]

Sorry - one other thing.

When I was 20, my then wife got an abortion against my wishes - because she was leaving me and didn't want the hassle. And it was devastating. While I now have a stepdaughter I love very much, it's unlikely I'll ever experience having a child of my own.

Even so - I stick with my convictions above. That was between me and her, and never something I would want a law to resolve for me.

[codymc12]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 10:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--codymc12@Nov 10 2003, 10:39 AM
I wish I could say I was going to be able to stick around after posting this - but I have to leave for the afternoon. Even so, I wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents (don't we all?).

My view is simple: Everyone can have an opinion - but no one should be able to LEGALLY enforce thier opinions on a mother to be. Period.

People can make all kinds of comments about how Mom's who abort should be sterilized, and so on. Or start debates about whether abortion is murder, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line - if you're not THAT person, carrying THAT baby - you shouldn't have a say in what THAT mother decides to do. It's her life, not yours.

We can dissaprove of a persons life choices all we want - and even be right about it. But we shouldn't be able to tell them not to make those choices - it is their life, after all.

Along those lines - with respect to the women who have posted their views - it's an interesting statistic that the greater majority of pro life activists are single men. In other words, men who don't carry a child, and haven't even committed to marriage. As a married man who prefers women strong and free, I find this statistic appalling.

Just my 2 cents. Debate - fine. Prosecute - a violation of personal liberties.
I agree with you to a Point... when a mother-to-be, however, is abusing the system by consistantly having "birth control abortions", they are taking away from others who actually need medical attention. THAT would be where I draw the line. That's pretty much how it is in Canada. You are allowed a maximum of 4 state-funded abortions before you have to pay out of pocket, and I believe there's a cap on the number thereafter as well. But yes, it's up to the mother and for a government to tell her what she can do with her body is a crime.[/b][/quote]
Thanks. Re: state funded - I agree whole heartedly. I want a woman to have full right to choose - that doesn't mean I want to PAY for it!

:)

[Dmitri]

Jeezus those are some horrible pics. Anyway, using abortion as birth-control is fucking retarded, and every hood rat on welfare loves using this method. Partial-birth abortions really should only be used if the mother's life is in danger. If you don't want the kid, quit fucking every guy on your block.

[Carrie]

Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Dmitri@Nov 10 2003, 04:35 PM
Jeezus those are some horrible pics. Anyway, using abortion as birth-control is fucking retarded, and every hood rat on welfare loves using this method. Partial-birth abortions really should only be used if the mother's life is in danger. If you don't want the kid, quit fucking every guy on your block.
Just to bring something up:

The morning after pill is relatively new. If a condom breaks, or you have unprotected sex, you know you're in trouble and can use it. But it HAS been only recently prescribed.

In addition, many other medications render birth control pills ineffective. It's becoming widely known now, but for decades my mother delivered "Antibiotic babies". :awinky: I personally see no reason why abortion shouldn't be available for these women.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?
Yeah.. Depends on the situation though too.

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?
Posting bloody abortion pictures as an argument against abortion is like posting pictures of open heart surgery as an argument against by passes. I have photographed lots of open heart surgery and it looks disgusting, but it saves lives. So stop with the stupid abortion pictures already. You guys live in a country that is blew the shit out of an entire nation twice in my lifetime, dropped the mother of all bombs in "surgical" raids and in the process killed, maimed,burnedand paralyzed a lot of innocent people. Those were not pretty pictures either. But you never forced anyone to look at those. Personally So I guess throwing the baby out with the bath water is just another type of surgery to save a:our democracy b: our freedom c:a mother's life
WTF, there is nor argument here.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by J'springer+Nov 10 2003, 03:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'springer @ Nov 10 2003, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?
Posting bloody abortion pictures as an argument against abortion is like posting pictures of open heart surgery as an argument against by passes.[/b][/quote]
hooray!
your FIRST intelligent post!

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 10 2003, 01:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 10 2003, 01:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?
Posting bloody abortion pictures as an argument against abortion is like posting pictures of open heart surgery as an argument against by passes.
hooray!
your FIRST intelligent post![/b][/quote]
wrong again comrade....just the first one simple enough for you to follow. BTW, congrats on GFY. Quite a splash. When do I get my raise. I want to be a Russian millionaire myself someday. I still have my CCCP driving license. That should get me in the door. BTW, rumour has it you are not a real russky but a Ukranian. You guys make nice easter eggs.

[Carrie]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 10 2003, 04:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 10 2003, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?
Posting bloody abortion pictures as an argument against abortion is like posting pictures of open heart surgery as an argument against by passes.
hooray!
your FIRST intelligent post![/b][/quote]
Except that he quoted me, and I have posted no pictures. :unsure:

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Carrie+Nov 10 2003, 01:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Carrie @ Nov 10 2003, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Nov 10 2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by -J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 03:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?
Posting bloody abortion pictures as an argument against abortion is like posting pictures of open heart surgery as an argument against by passes.
hooray!
your FIRST intelligent post!
Except that he quoted me, and I have posted no pictures. :unsure:[/b][/quote]
Duh...you lose dude. BTW, get a decent avatar, or just no avatar at all.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 06:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 06:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 06:40 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 06:36 AM
Ackkk... hehe
Just a smile and a wave will do :)


Ah you're not fun! I'll think of something.

Have you ever seen "The Pillow Book" with Ewan McCgregor (sp) ?

Total full nutidy of him in it.. it's an awesome Japanese story... one of my favorites.

You should check it out. Last time I checked Blockbuster had it.
Ewan MacGregor naked you say? ON MY WAY!![/b][/quote]

Yeah full frontal and a number of different times in the movie. He is my kind of guy! Love his free spirit! I could just eat him up!

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 07:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 07:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 10:58 AM
Ewan MacGregor naked you say? ON MY WAY!!
It's a very interesting and good movie besides EMc being naked. :)
After I heard good ole Ewan singing... I've been in extreme lust ever since.. That man could have me do pretty much anything for him after hearing "My gift is my soooooooooooooooong" :)

I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.[/b][/quote]


OMG I thought I was the only one that melted when they sang to eachother in that scene. I couldn't stand the movie when I first rented it.. I stopped after the first few minutes.. then went back a few days later and rented it again.. have loved it ever since!

[Peaches]

Originally posted by J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 05:13 PM
Duh...you lose dude. BTW, get a decent avatar, or just no avatar at all.
Hey, Lady - you're now criticizing AVATARS?! Too funny! :yowsa:

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 07:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 07:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 11:17 AM
I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 45 minutes of MR - Ewan or no Ewan. :barfon:[/b][/quote]


Ah same here!

I've liked Ewan since Transpotting.. him and Tommy Lee Jones... ( Angelina Jolies X)

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 07:28 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 11:17 AM
I already thought he was dead sexy, but that just completely clinched it. I think I will go watch Moulin Rouge this afternoon.
I couldn't bear to watch more than the first 45 minutes of MR - Ewan or no Ewan. :barfon:


Ah same here!

I've liked Ewan since Transpotting.. him and Tommy Lee Jones... ( Angelina Jolies X)[/b][/quote]
I haven't seen Trainspotting since it first came out. I think it's due for another viewing. :)

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 01:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 05:13 PM
Duh...you lose dude. BTW, get a decent avatar, or just no avatar at all.
Hey, Lady - you're now criticizing AVATARS?! Too funny! :yowsa:[/b][/quote]
But not yours dude. Your avatar is so pretty. When did you have that picture taken?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 05:24 PM
But not yours dude. Your avatar is so pretty. When did you have that picture taken?
Several years ago which is why you don't see much gray in my beard.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by codymc12@Nov 10 2003, 10:44 AM
Sorry - one other thing.

When I was 20, my then wife got an abortion against my wishes - because she was leaving me and didn't want the hassle. And it was devastating. While I now have a stepdaughter I love very much, it's unlikely I'll ever experience having a child of my own.

Even so - I stick with my convictions above. That was between me and her, and never something I would want a law to resolve for me.

Killing babies for convenience.

You know... if killing babies was as legal in the outside world as it is inside a womans womb you could only imagine how much the number of infant mortalities would clime.

Hell.. when it comes to convenience those of us with kids could name a few instances I'm sure when things would have been more convenient, less expesive or just downright easier without them. But we made a choice.. and that choice is what puts us in the situation we're in.

I'd rather chose a good partner then be partner to someone who murdered our child. I feel for ya man!

If having your own genetic child is important then you should do it. There are many ways people in a marriage can create there own genetic offspring :)

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Dmitri@Nov 10 2003, 12:35 PM
Jeezus those are some horrible pics. Anyway, using abortion as birth-control is fucking retarded, and every hood rat on welfare loves using this method. Partial-birth abortions really should only be used if the mother's life is in danger. If you don't want the kid, quit fucking every guy on your block.

I agree with you except for one thing... I thought hood rats on welfare got more money with more kids?

Funny how our society gives economic incentive for those in a bad state to bring more into this world in a bad state. It's unfortunate. I wish they gave incentives for hard working people to have more children. We'd end up with more children growing up in healthy environments then in the hood.



Last edited by Squirt at Nov 10 2003, 01:31 PM

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?

Unfortunately the baby depends on the host ( mother ) for life and nourishment. If the mother dies.. the baby dies. If the mother wants the baby to die.. it will die. There is not stopping a woman from exercising her rigth to take control of her body and that which is in it. It's natural law. The ultimate choice of life in human beings belongs with the mother. Not a piece of paper that says she can't do something. Not community standards. Not her husband or family. The choice, in the end, is hers.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:29 PM
Funny how our society gives economic incentive for those in a bad state to bring more into this world in a bad state. It's unfortunate. I wish they gave incentives for hard working people to have more children. We'd end up with more children growing up in healthy environments then in the hood.
I don't know how it is in AU, but in the US, parents who aren't on welfare get MUCH more in tax incentives than welfare parents get in welfare payments. :unsure: In fact, my "child free" friends are more irate at THOSE government payouts than welfare.

And I won't even bring up how being poor or rich has no bearing on if the environment you grow up in is "healthy".

[J'springer]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 01:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--J'springer@Nov 10 2003, 05:24 PM
But not yours dude. Your avatar is so pretty. When did you have that picture taken?
Several years ago which is why you don't see much gray in my beard.[/b][/quote]
But being able to lick your eyebrows is always popular.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by J'springer+Nov 10 2003, 12:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'springer @ Nov 10 2003, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 12:45 PM
Mother's rights, mother's body, mother's choice...
*sighs and quietly asks*

What about the baby's rights, body, and choice?
Posting bloody abortion pictures as an argument against abortion is like posting pictures of open heart surgery as an argument against by passes. I have photographed lots of open heart surgery and it looks disgusting, but it saves lives. So stop with the stupid abortion pictures already. You guys live in a country that is blew the shit out of an entire nation twice in my lifetime, dropped the mother of all bombs in "surgical" raids and in the process killed, maimed,burnedand paralyzed a lot of innocent people. Those were not pretty pictures either. But you never forced anyone to look at those. Personally So I guess throwing the baby out with the bath water is just another type of surgery to save a:our democracy b: our freedom c:a mother's life
WTF, there is nor argument here.[/b][/quote]

"You guys live in a country that is blew the shit out of an entire nation twice in my lifetime" If you are refering to America, I don't live there.

"So I guess throwing the baby out with the bath water is just another type of surgery to save a:our democracy b: our freedom c:a mother's life
WTF, there is nor argument here." America is very very conservative regarding the abortion issue. Goto India where they kill babies solely because of their sex. China as well. There are too many examples in the world of business as usual regarding abortion, let alone killing children after they are born because of their sex.

"Posting bloody abortion pictures as an argument against abortion is like posting pictures of open heart surgery as an argument against by passes."
That's a false analogy. I posted abortion pictures in conjunction with my argument, not the basis of the argument itslef. This is a discussion regarding this issue. I posted the pictures to illistrate the reality of what we're tlaking about.. just as one would post pictures of open heart surgery to do the same.

War is a totally different issue and I have posted wartime pics before to illustrate the reality of discussion, as well as video of individuals having their heads cut off for political reasons. Either you don't pay attention or you're being selective in what you acknowledge, either way your statement is based on wishful thinking not reality.

[Vick]

NewsFlash

If you don't have a uterus your opinion about abortion really doesn't carry much weight


Some say life begins at conception, I say it began with the carbon atom millions of years ago!!!
(and I still think coming out of the ocean was a bad idea - you doubt me - look at sexed - proves my point)


If all this concern(, lip service and rhetoric) went to pre-school children and not pre-born FETUS how much better would conditions be???

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Vick@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 PM
If all this concern(, lip service and rhetoric) went to pre-school children and not pre-born FETUS how much better would conditions be???
Excellent point.

What's interesting is that the die hard pro-lifers I know would never dream of offering to adopt the children of these women they try to scare out of having an abortion.

One family friend marches against abortion constantly. They have 5 kids. I asked them once why they didn't adopt: "Because we wanted our own kids. We wanted to know what we were getting.". :angry:

And of the many couples I know who have adopted, they all wanted white healthy babies. Crack babies and those with fetal alcohol syndrome need not apply. :(

There are tens of thousands of children in foster care looking for adoptive parents. Why not spend time and energy on them?

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 01:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 01:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:29 PM
Funny how our society gives economic incentive for those in a bad state to bring more into this world in a bad state. It's unfortunate. I wish they gave incentives for hard working people to have more children. We'd end up with more children growing up in healthy environments then in the hood.
I don't know how it is in AU, but in the US, parents who aren't on welfare get MUCH more in tax incentives than welfare parents get in welfare payments. :unsure: In fact, my "child free" friends are more irate at THOSE government payouts than welfare.

And I won't even bring up how being poor or rich has no bearing on if the environment you grow up in is "healthy".[/b][/quote]

Well I'm an American living in Australia the last year or so and it seems the "welfare" system out here is similar. See out here people pay about 1/2 their income in taxes. Get free medical care etc. Going on the "dole" is not considered a bad thing. A lot of people, when they graduate high school, go on the dole for a year or so and decide what they want to do with their life. Every Aussie I talk to says this is common and tells me their personal experience.

As a matter of fact.. there is more incentive for lower wage earners not to work and go on the dole. You get more money and do not work. Also a lot of workers here quit durring the holiday seasons.. go on the dole, then look for work afte the holidays are over. There has to be an Aussie somewhere here who will answer this.

Here there is nothing really wrong with going on the dole. Paying almost 50% in taxes people want to get their moneys worth.. and they deserve it! There is no stigma here really with it.. other then people will think you're a big lazy. Hell.. when you go on the dole you get a discount card.. seriously.. that gives you discounts on purchases ( including movies ) I have a friend on the dole and we went to see a movie.. he whips out his card.. the woman scans it and he gets a discount. FUNNY.. the government giving you a discount on entertainment while it's supporting you! Who knew :)

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 01:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 PM
If all this concern(, lip service and rhetoric) went to pre-school children and not pre-born FETUS how much better would conditions be???
Excellent point.

What's interesting is that the die hard pro-lifers I know would never dream of offering to adopt the children of these women they try to scare out of having an abortion.

One family friend marches against abortion constantly. They have 5 kids. I asked them once why they didn't adopt: "Because we wanted our own kids. We wanted to know what we were getting.". :angry:

And of the many couples I know who have adopted, they all wanted white healthy babies. Crack babies and those with fetal alcohol syndrome need not apply. :(

There are tens of thousands of children in foster care looking for adoptive parents. Why not spend time and energy on them?[/b][/quote]
Yes.. and how many of those children are going to grow up completely screwed up because of their conditions, treatment, or abuse? It's a sick world and most oftentimes children are the biggest victims of it's sickness...

[Vick]

Originally posted by Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 04:51 PM
die hard pro-lifers
and most of them are so physically unattractive no one wants to fuck them anyway- another problem solved


The solution is simple - you don't want an abortion - DON'T HAVE ONE

on the other hand abortion should be legal and safe for those who choose that option (in what is the best out of many bad choices ofttimes)

In fact abortion should be FREE to low income mothers and welfare recipients if they want to choose that option


As for partial birth abortions - the words partial birth are absolute bullshit
There is NO BIRTH involved (the fetus would not survive outside the womb in most cases)

If the fetus does not have the opportunity for a normal life or the mother's health is in danger ....
A painful solution for all involved again the best of many bad choices

[Vick]

p.s. I know my opinion doesn't count because I don't have a uterus B)

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 01:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 PM
If all this concern(, lip service and rhetoric) went to pre-school children and not pre-born FETUS how much better would conditions be???
Excellent point.

What's interesting is that the die hard pro-lifers I know would never dream of offering to adopt the children of these women they try to scare out of having an abortion.

One family friend marches against abortion constantly. They have 5 kids. I asked them once why they didn't adopt: "Because we wanted our own kids. We wanted to know what we were getting.". :angry:

And of the many couples I know who have adopted, they all wanted white healthy babies. Crack babies and those with fetal alcohol syndrome need not apply. :(

There are tens of thousands of children in foster care looking for adoptive parents. Why not spend time and energy on them?[/b][/quote]
At one point in my life I was in the foster care system. Also.. without going into much detail.... before my son was born I had no clue what I was getting. His mother, a good friend since high school, didn't know if he was going to be half black, mexican or white. And it didn't matter. He could have been born addicted to drugs. It didn't matter. What mattered was that I fell in love with him before he was born and at age 21 I was there for him, no matter what he was, and I still am, I always will be. That's a true parent.

Without going into detail.. I can tell you that being a child and knowing first hand how cruel those who brought you into the world can be.. it would be easy for me to say all these women should have abortions.. or all these women should have the kids and give them up for adoption. But I maintain that it's the womans choice. Nothing can change that.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Vick@Nov 10 2003, 05:01 PM
p.s. I know my opinion doesn't count because I don't have a uterus B)
I don't have one either.

And I promise not to tell anyone that I agree with this completely: The solution is simple - you don't want an abortion - DON'T HAVE ONE

on the other hand abortion should be legal and safe for those who choose that option (in what is the best out of many bad choices ofttimes)

In fact abortion should be FREE to low income mothers and welfare recipients if they want to choose that option


As for partial birth abortions - the words partial birth are absolute bullshit
There is NO BIRTH involved (the fetus would not survive outside the womb in most cases)

If the fetus does not have the opportunity for a normal life or the mother's health is in danger ....
A painful solution for all involved again the best of many bad choices


I don't want to tarnish your reputation :D

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 06:01 PM
But I maintain that it's the womans choice. Nothing can change that.
Uh, aren't you the one who started this thread? And isn't it titled: Partial Birth Abortion is WRONG! :unsure:



Last edited by Peaches at Nov 10 2003, 06:05 PM

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Vick@Nov 10 2003, 02:01 PM
p.s. I know my opinion doesn't count because I don't have a uterus B)

Vick, human rights issues are not based on the sex of those involved, rather their rights as individuals.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Peaches+Nov 10 2003, 02:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Nov 10 2003, 02:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 06:01 PM
But I maintain that it's the womans choice. Nothing can change that.
Uh, aren't you the one who started this thread? And isn't it titled: Partial Birth Abortion is WRONG! :unsure:[/b][/quote]


Yes.. after researching this and seeing the diagrams of exactly how this is done, and how old the children are and seeing the photos I think it's wrong. It is also the womans choice. Also I stated that these children.. kicking a flailing while their neck is being cut open and brain being suctioned out could be capable of surviving outside the womb. If a woman is giving a doctor permission to pull this whole baby out.. except for it's head.. to do this procedure.. then it's feasable ( in some cases ) that the child could live a happy and healthy life. I also stated that when a child is "partially born" with all of it's body out except the head.. is it not part of the outside world at this point.. with all the rights of a living human being?

Again.. my comments don't apply to all cases and are not a blanket response to all situations.



Last edited by Squirt at Nov 10 2003, 02:20 PM

[Vick]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Nov 10 2003, 02:01 PM
p.s. I know my opinion doesn't count because I don't have a uterus B)

Vick, human rights issues are not based on the sex of those involved, rather their rights as individuals.[/b][/quote]
Nature ties the infant to the mother and rightfully so
As women in most cases are better and far superior at nurturing an infant

When men start carrying children, giving birth, breast feeding and being the primary care giver and nurturer for infants then their opinions will count as much as women's

Not to mention the havoc having a child imposes on the body

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Vick+Nov 10 2003, 02:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Nov 10 2003, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:05 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Nov 10 2003, 02:01 PM
p.s. I know my opinion doesn't count because I don't have a uterus B)

Vick, human rights issues are not based on the sex of those involved, rather their rights as individuals.
Nature ties the infant to the mother and rightfully so
As women in most cases are better and far superior at nurturing an infant

When men start carrying children, giving birth, breast feeding and being the primary care giver and nurturer for infants then their opinions will count as much as women's

Not to mention the havoc having a child imposes on the body[/b][/quote]


Your argument is flawed... but using your logic: My opinion on women killing their children with partial birth abortion counts because some of the children being killed are males.

Now do I have a right to an opinion regarding babies being killed? Not to mention that without men the children wouldn't exist.

But again .. this isn't a male/female issue... human rights issues are not based on the sex of those involved, rather their rights as individuals.

[Vick]

Squirt - we have WAYyyyyyyyyy different opinions on this so ....

You seem like a decent guy with a good mind and being you're new somewhat to posting here I'll drop my end of the discussion :)



edit - p.s. can you please give a warning next time you post graphic pics when it's in the AM here in the US?



Last edited by Vick at Nov 10 2003, 05:33 PM

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Vick@Nov 10 2003, 02:31 PM
Squirt - we have WAYyyyyyyyyy different opinions on this so ....

You seem like a decent guy with a good mind and being you're new somewhat to posting here I'll drop my end of the discussion :)



edit - p.s. can you please give a warning next time you post graphic pics when it's in the AM here in the US?

Vick.. since I might post something at night in the U.S. that you might not see until the next morning.. I'll just always preface my posts with pics as (Vick, cover your eyes) Will that due?



Last edited by Squirt at Nov 10 2003, 02:57 PM

[Vick]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 05:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Nov 10 2003, 02:31 PM
Squirt - we have WAYyyyyyyyyy different opinions on this so ....

You seem like a decent guy with a good mind and being you're new somewhat to posting here I'll drop my end of the discussion :)



edit - p.s. can you please give a warning next time you post graphic pics when it's in the AM here in the US?
Vick.. since I might post something at night nightime in the U.S. that you might not see until the next morning.. I'll just always preface my posts with pics as (Vick, cover your eyes) Will that due?[/b][/quote]
:okthumb:

[Carrie]

If I had the room and the money, I would foster kids. The room and the money is tied in, as I need more money in order to get more room. :)

Partial birth abortions are late-term, third trimester abortions. Unless there is something seriously physically wrong with the child, it could indeed survive after birth.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 02:04 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 06:01 PM
But I maintain that it's the womans choice. Nothing can change that.
Uh, aren't you the one who started this thread? And isn't it titled: Partial Birth Abortion is WRONG! :unsure:


Yes.. after researching this and seeing the diagrams of exactly how this is done, and how old the children are and seeing the photos I think it's wrong. It is also the womans choice. Also I stated that these children.. kicking a flailing while their neck is being cut open and brain being suctioned out could be capable of surviving outside the womb. If a woman is giving a doctor permission to pull this whole baby out.. except for it's head.. to do this procedure.. then it's feasable ( in some cases ) that the child could live a happy and healthy life. I also stated that when a child is "partially born" with all of it's body out except the head.. is it not part of the outside world at this point.. with all the rights of a living human being?

Again.. my comments don't apply to all cases and are not a blanket response to all situations.[/b][/quote]
Depends on how far along they are... Just because they CAN survive outside the womb at that point doesn't mean they're not worse off if they do. For example, one of the reasons my doctor won't even do an internal exam on me (I'm having a VERY BAD pregnancy) is because the baby is now viable. I'm 5 months along. Were I to go into labor or start a bleed-out, they would do a caesarian and take the baby out and put it in an incubator. However, viable or not, at this point in time, babies in incubators generally are very sickly, VERY likely to catch serious illnesses and die.. have developmental problems, severe retardation in about half the cases... the list of difficulties goes on. Premature babies CAN survive, yes, but HOW premature they are is also a huge factor. 6 weeks early even, and they are still in the "safe" zone. Much more than that, and a child is pretty much damned to be plagued with health problems their entire (and usually very short) lives.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by -Peaches@Nov 10 2003, 02:04 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 06:01 PM
But I maintain that it's the womans choice. Nothing can change that.
Uh, aren't you the one who started this thread? And isn't it titled: Partial Birth Abortion is WRONG! :unsure:


Yes.. after researching this and seeing the diagrams of exactly how this is done, and how old the children are and seeing the photos I think it's wrong. It is also the womans choice. Also I stated that these children.. kicking a flailing while their neck is being cut open and brain being suctioned out could be capable of surviving outside the womb. If a woman is giving a doctor permission to pull this whole baby out.. except for it's head.. to do this procedure.. then it's feasable ( in some cases ) that the child could live a happy and healthy life. I also stated that when a child is "partially born" with all of it's body out except the head.. is it not part of the outside world at this point.. with all the rights of a living human being?

Again.. my comments don't apply to all cases and are not a blanket response to all situations.
Depends on how far along they are... Just because they CAN survive outside the womb at that point doesn't mean they're not worse off if they do. For example, one of the reasons my doctor won't even do an internal exam on me (I'm having a VERY BAD pregnancy) is because the baby is now viable. I'm 5 months along. Were I to go into labor or start a bleed-out, they would do a caesarian and take the baby out and put it in an incubator. However, viable or not, at this point in time, babies in incubators generally are very sickly, VERY likely to catch serious illnesses and die.. have developmental problems, severe retardation in about half the cases... the list of difficulties goes on. Premature babies CAN survive, yes, but HOW premature they are is also a huge factor. 6 weeks early even, and they are still in the "safe" zone. Much more than that, and a child is pretty much damned to be plagued with health problems their entire (and usually very short) lives.[/b][/quote]

True.. individual cases are the key. There is no one answer for all situations. My son was 6 weeks premature. They induced labor because Mom had been hospitalized for a few weeks for extreme pregnancy induced hypertension. She became critical so they had to pump my boys lungs with steroids to help them develop quickly so when he was born he could breathe correctly. When he was born he was no bigger then my hand!

Spending weeks in the NICU I saw so many worst case children.. those born with their brains outside their sculls. Hearing the consant alert of drug babies going through fits.. the list goes on. I remember another couple who had a premi... the baby was smaller then my boy and looked like an alien he was so premi. I'll never forget the doctors and nurses toiling over him with the warming light shining over him to keep his temperature up.

It's all a matter of choice. Some doctors and parents choose to kill these babies... others choose to try and save them. Some of these babies live healthy lives.. others are a major burdon. In the end.. some mothers make the choice to kill the baby before it's born, not knowing for sure what the result is.. just to be safe. It's always moms choice.

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:00 PM
If I had the room and the money, I would foster kids. The room and the money is tied in, as I need more money in order to get more room. :)

Partial birth abortions are late-term, third trimester abortions. Unless there is something seriously physically wrong with the child, it could indeed survive after birth.

I'm with you there! I love kids and remember when I was younger and put in the position I was.... really good people changed my life and showed me what love really was. A judge, a social worker, people in the group home, Foster parents... and a kind teacher showed me what love is.

I'm sure all of us have experience with someone in our life, who wasn't a parent, that went out of their way to make a difference, not because they had to, but because they are good people.

You sound like good people Carrie... you deserve your name on my models ass :) lol

[Carrie]

It's no wonder to me why incubators are little death-traps. Imagine the number of sheer germs floating around in hospitals - even with the sterilized equipment and filtered air. It's where sick people go in large numbers every day.

Plus you take a baby completely and totally away from its mother, her warmth, her heartbeat, and her breastmilk... no child fares well without those crucial things. If he needs the tubes and such, so be it - but let him lay in his mother's arms where the familiar sound of her heart can calm and relax him and her nutritious breastmilk can feed him.

Children in incubators have always looked to me to be horribly frightened and alone; stress is one of the most dangerous things to a baby's fragile system.

I know, getting off-topic here.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:28 PM
It's no wonder to me why incubators are little death-traps. Imagine the number of sheer germs floating around in hospitals - even with the sterilized equipment and filtered air. It's where sick people go in large numbers every day.

Plus you take a baby completely and totally away from its mother, her warmth, her heartbeat, and her breastmilk... no child fares well without those crucial things. If he needs the tubes and such, so be it - but let him lay in his mother's arms where the familiar sound of her heart can calm and relax him and her nutritious breastmilk can feed him.

Children in incubators have always looked to me to be horribly frightened and alone; stress is one of the most dangerous things to a baby's fragile system.

I know, getting off-topic here.
Yeah.. now you can understand why I don't want my baby like that, and neither does my doctor.

And although I don't agree with ANYONE having to die unneccessarily, I also hate suffering too. It's almost like euthenasia.. which is another touchy subject I know. There IS no right or wrong answer for every situation. Every situation is going to have different circumstances, reprecussions and neccessities...

[Squirt]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:28 PM
It's no wonder to me why incubators are little death-traps. Imagine the number of sheer germs floating around in hospitals - even with the sterilized equipment and filtered air. It's where sick people go in large numbers every day.

Plus you take a baby completely and totally away from its mother, her warmth, her heartbeat, and her breastmilk... no child fares well without those crucial things. If he needs the tubes and such, so be it - but let him lay in his mother's arms where the familiar sound of her heart can calm and relax him and her nutritious breastmilk can feed him.

Children in incubators have always looked to me to be horribly frightened and alone; stress is one of the most dangerous things to a baby's fragile system.

I know, getting off-topic here.


You're right.. their nervous systems go haywire in the NICU ... you have to keep very quiet and with my boy they covered his ears to help him cope.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 03:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:28 PM
It's no wonder to me why incubators are little death-traps. Imagine the number of sheer germs floating around in hospitals - even with the sterilized equipment and filtered air. It's where sick people go in large numbers every day.

Plus you take a baby completely and totally away from its mother, her warmth, her heartbeat, and her breastmilk... no child fares well without those crucial things. If he needs the tubes and such, so be it - but let him lay in his mother's arms where the familiar sound of her heart can calm and relax him and her nutritious breastmilk can feed him.

Children in incubators have always looked to me to be horribly frightened and alone; stress is one of the most dangerous things to a baby's fragile system.

I know, getting off-topic here.


You're right.. their nervous systems go haywire in the NICU ... you have to keep very quiet and with my boy they covered his ears to help him cope.[/b][/quote]
Yeah not only that but their immune systems are never the same as other children's... it's awful. 6 weeks is pretty much the limit as far as possibility for health in 99.9% of the cases, and like in your situation they try to stimulate the child's growth for that.. which can also cause damage in itself. You are VERY lucky your child is ok, Squirt :)

[Squirt]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 03:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:28 PM
It's no wonder to me why incubators are little death-traps. Imagine the number of sheer germs floating around in hospitals - even with the sterilized equipment and filtered air. It's where sick people go in large numbers every day.

Plus you take a baby completely and totally away from its mother, her warmth, her heartbeat, and her breastmilk... no child fares well without those crucial things. If he needs the tubes and such, so be it - but let him lay in his mother's arms where the familiar sound of her heart can calm and relax him and her nutritious breastmilk can feed him.

Children in incubators have always looked to me to be horribly frightened and alone; stress is one of the most dangerous things to a baby's fragile system.

I know, getting off-topic here.
Yeah.. now you can understand why I don't want my baby like that, and neither does my doctor.

And although I don't agree with ANYONE having to die unneccessarily, I also hate suffering too. It's almost like euthenasia.. which is another touchy subject I know. There IS no right or wrong answer for every situation. Every situation is going to have different circumstances, reprecussions and neccessities...[/b][/quote]


Well I can tell you that I don't envy women having to make these tough decisions. It's easier to be angry at someone for making a choice .. then having to make the choice yourself.

In this situation you're really damned if you do and damned if you don't. Who really wins in the end?

"It's almost like euthenasia." See I agree with euthenasia... when the person has let their wishes be known in advance.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Squirt+Nov 10 2003, 03:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Squirt @ Nov 10 2003, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 03:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:28 PM
It's no wonder to me why incubators are little death-traps. Imagine the number of sheer germs floating around in hospitals - even with the sterilized equipment and filtered air. It's where sick people go in large numbers every day.

Plus you take a baby completely and totally away from its mother, her warmth, her heartbeat, and her breastmilk... no child fares well without those crucial things. If he needs the tubes and such, so be it - but let him lay in his mother's arms where the familiar sound of her heart can calm and relax him and her nutritious breastmilk can feed him.

Children in incubators have always looked to me to be horribly frightened and alone; stress is one of the most dangerous things to a baby's fragile system.

I know, getting off-topic here.
Yeah.. now you can understand why I don't want my baby like that, and neither does my doctor.

And although I don't agree with ANYONE having to die unneccessarily, I also hate suffering too. It's almost like euthenasia.. which is another touchy subject I know. There IS no right or wrong answer for every situation. Every situation is going to have different circumstances, reprecussions and neccessities...


Well I can tell you that I don't envy women having to make these tough decisions. It's easier to be angry at someone for making a choice .. then having to make the choice yourself.

In this situation you're really damned if you do and damned if you don't. Who really wins in the end?

"It's almost like euthenasia." See I agree with euthenasia... when the person has let their wishes be known in advance.[/b][/quote]
Yeah but it's just as controversial, because there are many people who think no matter what, it's wrong. There's no real black and whit eon it though.

[Carrie]

Oh - Vick, you mentioned men providing breastmilk. Just a note, they often did back before formulas. Laura Shanley, a dear friend of mine and one of the most outspoken advocates of homebirth - her hubby wanted to see if he could produce breastmilk. It took a few weeks, but he did it. Mind over matter kind of thing.

Just an interesting side-note. :)

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:52 PM
Oh - Vick, you mentioned men providing breastmilk. Just a note, they often did back before formulas. Laura Shanley, a dear friend of mine and one of the most outspoken advocates of homebirth - her hubby wanted to see if he could produce breastmilk. It took a few weeks, but he did it. Mind over matter kind of thing.

Just an interesting side-note. :)
They can take hormones to do it as well :) Men can also get breast cancer. Montel Williams had it. A few more interesting facts.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:52 PM
Oh - Vick, you mentioned men providing breastmilk. Just a note, they often did back before formulas. Laura Shanley, a dear friend of mine and one of the most outspoken advocates of homebirth - her hubby wanted to see if he could produce breastmilk. It took a few weeks, but he did it. Mind over matter kind of thing.

Just an interesting side-note. :)
They can take hormones to do it as well :) Men can also get breast cancer. Montel Williams had it. A few more interesting facts.[/b][/quote]
hmm...read next issue of National Enquirer...my doctor said I eithe rhave gall stones or...Pregnant!
;-)))

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 10 2003, 04:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 10 2003, 04:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 06:56 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Carrie@Nov 10 2003, 03:52 PM
Oh - Vick, you mentioned men providing breastmilk. Just a note, they often did back before formulas. Laura Shanley, a dear friend of mine and one of the most outspoken advocates of homebirth - her hubby wanted to see if he could produce breastmilk. It took a few weeks, but he did it. Mind over matter kind of thing.

Just an interesting side-note. :)
They can take hormones to do it as well :) Men can also get breast cancer. Montel Williams had it. A few more interesting facts.
hmm...read next issue of National Enquirer...my doctor said I eithe rhave gall stones or...Pregnant!
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Do you cry over tampon commercials?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 07:29 PM

Do you cry over tampon commercials?
no...but I cried with joy when I got 10 gallons drum with lube from Todd!
;-))

[Hell Puppy]

As a matter of personal policy, i normally do not participate in threads regarding abortion, gun control, death penalty or less filling vs. tastes great. You cant change anyone's mind on any of those.

However, my personal opinion is that abortion should be legal up until the time they get a job and move out of the house.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Nov 10 2003, 10:50 PM
However, my personal opinion is that abortion should be legal up until the time they get a job and move out of the house.
Got an instruction manual for this?