If you walk into an employees office.............

[BradShaw]

And their computer is on espn.com, what do you do? If they are not getting their shit done, yet have time to read espn.com at work? Of course this is purely hypothetical!

Think I am going to remove net access in the sweat shop.

[grogan]

At the mortgage company we have web surfers who are extremely hard working also, they just need random breaks.

Per case basis.

[Cassie]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 29 2003, 10:55 PM
And their computer is on espn.com, what do you do? If they are not getting their shit done, yet have time to read espn.com at work? Of course this is purely hypothetical!

Think I am going to remove net access in the sweat shop.
simple

fire them (or if you are compassionate about the lack of jobs in the work force) or you can send them a letter stating they have one week from the date of receipt of the letter to improve their performance or you will have no other option but to terminate their employment.

[BradShaw]

No more mr. nice guy. I can be a terrible person to work for, that's why over the past couple years I have been much more hands off. My business weakness is dealing with employees, I suck. But I think as I get older, I get a bit more diplomatic, we shall see as I ride some ass for a while! Who wants a job? ;-)

[Richard N. Bush]

I think it depends on other factors. For example, do they come in to work on time (or early), and do they stay late most days? Do they do stuff from home? On the weekends?

If yes to those types of questions, then I'd cut them some slack. However, if they were late to work every day and liked to cut out at 3PM and didn't know what the words "on call" meant... they'd be toast.

[Hell Puppy]

my 2 cents....

I like employees to enjoy coming to work. I want people who enjoy their job. And if they work hard, I'll make sure they get the opportunity to play hard.

A bit of web surfing for someone who eat, sleeps and breaths the web is natural. I have no problem with it.....IF they're getting the job done.

If they're doing a good job and getting their work done, I dont care if they're rubbing one out to Chat Room Romeo at work. If they aren't getting the job done, they need to move on whether they surf or not.

If work feels too much like work, you'll find yourself surrounded by people who show up, do their 8 and go home. And that's certainly ok for some professions, however our's is one where you need creative, intelligent people who aren't going to be happy in a regimented environment.

[BradShaw]

I have never had a problem with people checking personal email, a little surfing. Believe it or not I am reasonable. I am very hands off, I only care about the final product for the most part. Make me $.

But if someone is not getting shit done, and surfing, makes me think....

[Cassie]

Originally posted by Richard N. Bush@Oct 29 2003, 11:03 PM
I think it depends on other factors. For example, do they come in to work on time (or early), and do they stay late most days? Do they do stuff from home? On the weekends?

If yes to those types of questions, then I'd cut them some slack. However, if they were late to work every day and liked to cut out at 3PM and didn't know what the words "on call" meant... they'd be toast.
although i understand where you are coming from, employess take kindness for weakness and run with the advantage rather then looking at it as being what it is.

writing those letters arent fun but they are necessary to get a match under an employees ass and they have 2 options, either get their shit together or move on (and they can whine and complain that you never liked them and that they are going to take a week off to think about that letter even though they only have a week to get their act together).

you cant win for losing. its all a catch 22.

[Richard N. Bush]

It's true that sometimes employees just plain suck, but if/when you can put together a good team there can be lots of time for goofing off and still get some quality work done.

This can be taken to extremes though, just like anything. And of course, there will always be that one person who tries to ruin it for everyone.

[sarettah]

Brad, do you personally manage the office/sweatshop ?? If not, have your manager handle it, that's what you pay him for.

It has often been my belief that the one day the big boss notices an employee is the one day they are fucking up...lol....

If you manage it yourself, Cassie's advice is good. Go through the process, call him in, explain the problem, give him a written warning, whatever. Main thing is document the hell out of it so he can't call it unfair in the long run.

Reward in public, Punish in private.............

[Cassie]

Originally posted by Richard N. Bush@Oct 29 2003, 11:14 PM
It's true that sometimes employees just plain suck, but if/when you can put together a good team there can be lots of time for goofing off and still get some quality work done.

This can be taken to extremes though, just like anything. And of course, there will always be that one person who tries to ruin it for everyone.
you are so very accurate. when you work as a team, you get rewarded as a team and breaks are necessary (especially when behind a computer all day).

[Vick]

Brad, in current America you need to have written polices with regards to acceptable work practices

You have to document the infraction and give warning (or termination depending on your companies policies)

As much as it sucks to say it - have your legal team and Human Resources draft an acceptable polices and work standards document if you don't already have one.

Have 2 copies given to all employees, one they must give back signed stating they have read and understand the document

Beyond that what would I do, give the employee a written warning with the understanding that surfing ESPN.com on company time is unacceptable (if that is in keeping with workplace standards) and may be grounds for termination

Really depends on the situation, employee and work place atmosphere

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 29 2003, 10:07 PM
I have never had a problem with people checking personal email, a little surfing. Believe it or not I am reasonable. I am very hands off, I only care about the final product for the most part. Make me $.

But if someone is not getting shit done, and surfing, makes me think....
If the job's not getting done, dump 'em whether they're surfing or not.

Small companies cant tote dead wood like a big corporation. A slack ass bastard can hide for years in big companies.

[pimpdog]

use their pc and download some kiddie porn, then tip off the FBI about them... might get their attention... thats the drastic approach.. if you dont have a sense of humor, then just fire them via us mail, change the locks and get a restraining order against them..

p.s. I love you brad

[BradShaw]

We have an intenet usage agreement that all employees sign. Says among other things, no non business activities, and that the computer is open to supervisors.

Btw, I am the new office manager, I hired myself today.

[gregtx]

Originally posted by Vick@Oct 29 2003, 07:18 PM
Brad, in current America you need to have written polices with regards to acceptable work practices

You have to document the infraction and give warning (or termination depending on your companies policies)

As much as it sucks to say it - have your legal team and Human Resources draft an acceptable polices and work standards document if you don't already have one.

Have 2 copies given to all employees, one they must give back signed stating they have read and understand the document

Beyond that what would I do, give the employee a written warning with the understanding that surfing ESPN.com on company time is unacceptable (if that is in keeping with workplace standards) and may be grounds for termination

Really depends on the situation, employee and work place atmosphere
ah the beauty of Texas... being a work at will state.. we can actual let someone go for any reason what so ever... now... they are allowed to claim unemployment if, and only if they were "let go" for non diciplinary reasons (ie layoff) .. if they are caught stealing... etc... then yes.. best to document then fire.. and you are still in the clear...

we really do not run a sweat shop and we have been very tolerant over the last few months... but we have some big new projects with strict deadlines that must be met... and some people just don't get it...
:awinky:

[sarettah]

Originally posted by gregtx@Oct 29 2003, 11:13 PM
ah the beauty of Texas... being a work at will state.. we can actual let someone go for any reason what so ever...
True...unless you are over 25 employees, then you have to worry about the feds side of it....

When I was in Odessa back in 82-83 working for a liquor company (office/warehouse manager) we documented everything, saved our skins several times....

lol...I became an expert at talking folks out of wanting a job if I didn't want to hire them because the best reason for not hiring them was "made offer, they refused"

Best policy I have dealt with as a manager was 2 do a three level thing...

1st...written warning with clearly stated attainable goals and a set time period to reach the goals... and a statement that failure could lead to diciplinary action including termination...

2nd..If they did not iimprove.. a 2nd written warning with the original goals restated and which of them had not been reached and what they could do to reach them..... and a second set of clearly stated set time periods on them... and a restatement of what could happen if they failed..

3rd...if they still failed to meet them... a third warning with documentation of goals not acheived, what they can do to reach them and a clear notice that failure will lead to termination...

Then if they didn't reach them, they were gone...

yes, it takes time and patience.. But you are covered with the feds... The employee can not say they weren't warned... and the employee has had a chance to go out and seek other employment.....

[Billy]

Shit.. Brad I just wanted to see who the Saints were going to play on Sunday.. give me a break... Please !!

[Peaches]

Here in GA, you can fire anyone for anything as long as it's not due to age, race or religion. And I hate to say it, but if you're firing an old black Muslim for poor job performance, you better have all your ducks in a row and everything documented. :awinky:

Personally, as HP said, I think that if they're not getting their work done, surfing ESPN is minor. Have a chat, tell them they're history if they don't start getting their work done, give them 30 days to prove themselves and go from there. Too many people out there looking for jobs to pay for mediocrity.

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Billy@Oct 29 2003, 11:25 PM
Shit.. Brad I just wanted to see who the Saints were going to play on Sunday.. give me a break... Please !!
Mike know you're moonlighting ???


:yowsa:

[BradShaw]

I fight all unemployment claims. Its a bogus system here in Texas. We are fighting one from over 15 months ago still.

[SweetT]

A couple of points....Georgia and Texas are both "Right to work" states...this means that the employee "works at the pleasure of the employer". As long as you are not discriminating you can fire for any reason or no reason and not be concerned with legal issues from any State or Federal Agency no matter how many employees you have. Larger companies, like the one that I was employed with for many years (10k+ employees) teach down to the worst states (California comes to mind) and that is always the safe bet.

Now...why not just find a solution to the problem....

Brad, you have been to my offices many times....other than mine, can you name a single monitor that did not face the door?? Can't do it. Employees are much less likely to push the envelope when they know you can walk up to their door and see everything on the monitor in a moments notice.

It has always been my experience that you don't tempt employees....you will never like the outcome.

JMHO


--T

[Rolo]

We made a system, so employees who can not control their internet usage will have to add each url they want to visit to a approve list. Everyone can see the approve list, and who has added the urls. This is very good since this keep employees in line, and makes them think "is this url related to the work I´m doing". All urls approved by normal employees will expire after 5 days, however since supervisors are also watching the approve list for activity, then they can permanently approve or ban urls, so they will stick in the system.

In time we found that this system works great, and a added bonus is that employees can use the approve list like a " joined bookmark list" for all employees with lots of good work related urls.

However we do have some employees who feel like "we do not trust them etc.", but those are typical also the same employees who will not be in the organisation in a few months :heil: :awinky:



Last edited by Rolo at Oct 30 2003, 01:07 AM

[slavdogg]

I fired myself earlier this year for surfing the web and jerking off way too much.
Its been 5 months and i still cant find a new job. oh well at least unemployment and food stamps pay the bills and mortage for now

[Carrie]

I tend to take things on a case by case basis.
Was his work done for the day?
Was his work done for the first half of the day and it was around lunchtime?
Was it lunchtime and he was taking his lunch break at his desk rather than leaving the building?
Is he doing something with the company that is sports-related (ie you wouldn't want to fire the person running the football pool here on Oprano for looking at ESPN...)?
Is this the first time you've caught them surfing?

Many factors, but first and foremost - creative, hardworking people do *not* work "typically". They work in bursts, then get their mind off of it for a bit to refresh the batteries, then they go back into a burst. During one of these "bursts" they can output 3 times the work that a normal employee will do, but they also might seem to be "goofing off" 3 times more than a normal employee is.

Just walking into your office and finding someone doing something one time like surfing a bit isn't grounds for serious discipline... this is what an office manager is for. The office manager can be there full-time and *know* which employees are the "slow and steady" mules and which are the "rabbits" who do their work in bursts. The office manager is the person to make these decisions, not someone who wanders through maybe once a week and doesn't know the employees and their work habits.

[Trev]

I'd find out the lastest scores and news then can his ass :ph34r:

[Dravyk]

I fight all unemployment claims. Its a bogus system here in Texas. We are fighting one from over 15 months ago still.
Gee, Texas ... Suprised, they don't just put unemployment filers into the electric chair.

other than mine, can you name a single monitor that did not face the door?? Can't do it. Employees are much less likely to push the envelope when they know you can walk up to their door and see everything on the monitor in a moments notice.
Good, subtle but effective management, Tony. Sounds like you hit the proper chord there. Nicely done.

The office manager is the person to make these decisions, not someone who wanders through maybe once a week and doesn't know the employees and their work habits
I agree with that, Carrie.

You hire the best people for the job and then you let them do their job. Checking in once in a while to ensure things are happening. Then, make slight course corrections if needed.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by slavdogg@Oct 30 2003, 05:25 AM
I fired myself earlier this year for surfing the web and jerking off way too much.
Its been 5 months and i still cant find a new job. oh well at least unemployment and food stamps pay the bills and mortage for now
I'll hire you Slav! But I must warn you - I don't pay well and you'll be required to turn your computer towards your front door should I decide to fly a few thousand miles and check up on you. :P

[leeb]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 29 2003, 06:55 PM
And their computer is on espn.com, what do you do? If they are not getting their shit done, yet have time to read espn.com at work? Of course this is purely hypothetical!

Think I am going to remove net access in the sweat shop.
you sure shaw cutie was looking at ESPN, not searching through singles sites, just double checking your the right one for her?

[Rolo]

If there are no clear rules, then you will find employees who will get confused, and start making mistakes, most likely because they are not aware that the things they are doing are wrong.

Always take the time to listen to them, but let them know exactly what you expect from them and why. Give constructive directions if they start to slip, and praise them if they do good.

It takes alot of work, tears and love to raise a good employee :inlove:

[MikeFold]

Do You make this stuff up Brad???
B)

I'm with Slav....LOL...tried to eliminate my position and downsize..

Sweet T...can"t work/eat out or sit in a waiting room for example with my back to the door....don't know why, just can't do it
(you know about my elevator escapades)


:blink:

anyways, If you have an intermediary between you and the employee, he/she should handle it, unless you are there daily, monitoring and supervising. As was mentioned earlier, it may have been only this one time and you happened to walk in.

[brand0n]

give them a couple warnings at best then can them

[VooMan]

Originally posted by SweetT@Oct 30 2003, 01:18 AM
A couple of points....Georgia and Texas are both "Right to work" states...this means that the employee "works at the pleasure of the employer". As long as you are not discriminating you can fire for any reason or no reason and not be concerned with legal issues from any State or Federal Agency no matter how many employees you have. Larger companies, like the one that I was employed with for many years (10k+ employees) teach down to the worst states (California comes to mind) and that is always the safe bet.

Now...why not just find a solution to the problem....

Brad, you have been to my offices many times....other than mine, can you name a single monitor that did not face the door?? Can't do it. Employees are much less likely to push the envelope when they know you can walk up to their door and see everything on the monitor in a moments notice.

It has always been my experience that you don't tempt employees....you will never like the outcome.

JMHO


--T
Um... uh... gulp... If ya'll don't see me posting here for a while, you'll know why. :ph34r:

All kidding aside, SweetT is right. All I ever needed to do was take a walk down the hall and I knew exactly what my employees were doing... it definitely makes people think twice before goofing off.

[leeb]

When will everyone understand, this isnt about Greg or Jim or any of Brad's fine staff, its about BRAD!!!

He has less then 40 days till his wedding, and he is getting nervous.

This is all about penis envy, Brad is worred SC is enjoying wathcing Chat Room Romeo more than she is enjoying Penis De Shaw.








note to SC
you know we love you, it's just fun to screw with brad :nyanya:



Last edited by leeb at Oct 30 2003, 08:04 AM

[voodooman]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 29 2003, 09:03 PM
No more mr. nice guy. I can be a terrible person to work for, that's why over the past couple years I have been much more hands off. My business weakness is dealing with employees, I suck. But I think as I get older, I get a bit more diplomatic, we shall see as I ride some ass for a while! Who wants a job? ;-)
Brad,

This is really quite simple actually.

First off, if your employees have some
free time to look at non-work related
sites, then you're not giving them
enough work to do.
Second, maybe the employee was looking
at espn on his/her lunch break.
Third, If the employee isn't doing his/her job,
its difficult to say rather or not espn is to
blame, but might be worth talking to you
attorney about? Maybe you could sue espn
for having such an informative site that its
keeping your employees from working.
With some of the things that people sue other
people for these days, I think you might have
a shot.

[Carrie]

Your employee is actually an undercover spy for Acacia - he was gathering info on the video that ESPN streams of sports highlights for his Friday report to Berman. :ph34r:

[shawcutie]

Originally posted by leeb@Oct 30 2003, 08:03 AM
When will everyone understand, this isnt about Greg or Jim or any of Brad's fine staff, its about BRAD!!!

He has less then 40 days till his wedding, and he is getting nervous.

This is all about penis envy, Brad is worred SC is enjoying wathcing Chat Room Romeo more than she is enjoying Penis De Shaw.








note to SC
you know we love you, it's just fun to screw with brad :nyanya:
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

You give him all the shit you want Lee, he deserves it!!

[Bex]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 29 2003, 07:07 PM
I have never had a problem with people checking personal email, a little surfing. Believe it or not I am reasonable. I am very hands off, I only care about the final product for the most part. Make me $.

But if someone is not getting shit done, and surfing, makes me think....
Brad ... this was definately something that I stuggled with as well. My basic policy was that if someone was getting done what I thought they needed to then basically they were able to surf pretty much what they wanted when they wanted (to a maximum of course).

But if someone was behind in work, and taking too many breaks etc. I would get on their ass. If the situation did not improve, fire them. Seemed to work for me anyhow.

Good luck with your situation.

And Greg ... just stop surfing ESPN so much and all this can be avoided. :groucho:

[Wizzo]

Results.... Results.... Results.... There's very few employees in this business that would fall in the "intrinsic value" category. Most everyone's work can be judged on some type of performance basis..

If they produce, do their job well and surf ESPN or whatever.... Great!

If they don't produce, Surfing or Not... Fire their Ass... At the very least, it might keep other employee's on their toes...

:)

[Dravyk]

I'm not one of these folks who goes reading a ton of books on business, mostly because a lot are written by the "those who can't do - teach" types, and the slwe of moronic infomercial/seminar "gurus".

That said though, I found a good one, by someone who set the standard in the past quarter century (not someone who only "talks the talk"). Pick up "29 Leadership Secrets from Jack Welch" by Robert Slater.

Mostly it's common sense things I've found. But also a few prespectives that can get you thinking. So whether it's to pick up some good tips or to validate your management style. It's one of the those rare things, a book I actually recommend.

[kath]

Originally posted by Wizzo@Oct 30 2003, 08:57 AM
Results.... Results.... Results.... There's very few employees in this business that would fall in the "intrinsic value" category. Most everyone's work can be judged on some type of performance basis..

If they produce, do their job well and surf ESPN or whatever.... Great!

If they don't produce, Surfing or Not... Fire their Ass... At the very least, it might keep other employee's on their toes...

:)
Exactly. Brad said from the very beginning that stuff wasn't getting done. The ESPN thing - although probably part of the problem - isn't the whole problem.

<_<

[SweetT]

OK...so lets change it up a bit and see how you handle this one....


You have a programmer....you walk into his office and he is at (oprano/gfy/ynottoppond).com ??? What do you do now??

Discuss amongst yourselves :blink:


--T

[Peaches]

Originally posted by SweetT@Oct 30 2003, 03:49 PM
OK...so lets change it up a bit and see how you handle this one....


You have a programmer....you walk into his office and he is at (oprano/gfy/ynottoppond).com ??? What do you do now??

Discuss amongst yourselves :blink:


--T
Give him a raise for being proactive enough to keep up with what's going on with the industry. :okthumb:

[Mike AI]

Funny how this is the only industry we REQUIRE people to be surfing porn!! We need a reverse porn filter - if they are not looking at porn, they need to be disciplined!!

:rokk:

[Richard N. Bush]

If they are a programmer I use for coding adult stuff, then by all means they should feel free to read the boards. Heck, they can make it their home page as far as I'm concerned! :)

[VooMan]

Originally posted by SweetT@Oct 30 2003, 02:49 PM
OK...so lets change it up a bit and see how you handle this one....


You have a programmer....you walk into his office and he is at (oprano/gfy/ynottoppond).com ??? What do you do now??

Discuss amongst yourselves :blink:


--T
Update: If ya'll see me posting here a lot, you'll know why.... :)

(hidden text: Peaches, the check is in the mail)

hahaha

[kath]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 30 2003, 11:55 AM
Funny how this is the only industry we REQUIRE people to be surfing porn!! We need a reverse porn filter - if they are not looking at porn, they need to be disciplined!!

:rokk:
Definitely!!! Down with those non-porn sites! What's the world coming to? ESPN... CNN.... *shudder* How sick! lol

:groucho:

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by SweetT@Oct 30 2003, 11:49 AM
OK...so lets change it up a bit and see how you handle this one....


You have a programmer....you walk into his office and he is at (oprano/gfy/ynottoppond).com ??? What do you do now??

Discuss amongst yourselves :blink:


--T
I do not care for my staff to read the boards. But I have not laid down the laws on that yet. I figure if you are not a marketing person or exec, reading the boards daily is a waste of time.



Last edited by BradShaw at Oct 30 2003, 12:57 PM

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by SweetT@Oct 30 2003, 02:49 PM
You have a programmer....you walk into his office and he is at (oprano/gfy/ynottoppond).com ??? What do you do now??
If a programmer sees what new things came out of your competition or things people are asking for to be programmed, more power to him.

If he's only reading who Boneprone did this week ...

If he's slacking in those "results" there's one answer. If he's coming up with new ideas or competing ideas to create, again, there's another answer.

[Bex]

Originally posted by BradShaw+Oct 30 2003, 12:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BradShaw @ Oct 30 2003, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--SweetT@Oct 30 2003, 11:49 AM
OK...so lets change it up a bit and see how you handle this one....


You have a programmer....you walk into his office and he is at (oprano/gfy/ynottoppond).com ??? What do you do now??

Discuss amongst yourselves :blink:


--T
I do not care for my staff to read the boards. But I have not laid down the laws on that yet. I figure if you are not a marketing person or exec, reading the boards daily is a waste of time.[/b][/quote]
For sure! Some people NEED to keep up on what is going on, and others do not.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 30 2003, 03:56 PM
I do not care for my staff to read the boards. But I have not laid down the laws on that yet. I figure if you are not a marketing person or exec, reading the boards daily is a waste of time.
Do you still allow breathing in the office, Brad? :P

[Danny_C]

I'd at least pick a better site. All sports are dull other than boxing, and there's only so much reading you can do about that.

[JR]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 29 2003, 06:55 PM
And their computer is on espn.com, what do you do? If they are not getting their shit done, yet have time to read espn.com at work? Of course this is purely hypothetical!

Think I am going to remove net access in the sweat shop.
we just set up the firewall and permissions so that certain employees only have limited and select access to the web and messengers. it made a big difference. suddenly people had nothing to do but work. :)

[gregtx]

Originally posted by Bex+Oct 30 2003, 08:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bex @ Oct 30 2003, 08:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--BradShaw@Oct 29 2003, 07:07 PM
I have never had a problem with people checking personal email, a little surfing. Believe it or not I am reasonable. I am very hands off, I only care about the final product for the most part. Make me $.

But if someone is not getting shit done, and surfing, makes me think....
Brad ... this was definately something that I stuggled with as well. My basic policy was that if someone was getting done what I thought they needed to then basically they were able to surf pretty much what they wanted when they wanted (to a maximum of course).

But if someone was behind in work, and taking too many breaks etc. I would get on their ass. If the situation did not improve, fire them. Seemed to work for me anyhow.

Good luck with your situation.

And Greg ... just stop surfing ESPN so much and all this can be avoided. :groucho:[/b][/quote]
what is espn.com???

:awinky:

[Hooper]

both Nicolo Machiavelli and Sun Tzu would say that you need to (and i am paraphrasing here) fire him loudly and in front of everybody, perhaps during a company meeting.

I think sun tzu literally said to cut off his head and machiavelli probably would have cut his head off just for thinking about surfing espn.



Last edited by Hooper at Oct 31 2003, 12:59 AM

[Rolo]

Could also hire Terry Tate - Office Linebacker:

http://www.terrytate.reebok.com/

B)

[Billy]

Greg.. I said I would not do it again, can we just leave it at that ??

Please talk to Brad : )

After all I did for him in Cabo you would think he would give me a break!

[Evil Chris]

MikeFold makes sense when he says that an intermediary (if they exist) should address these kinds of problems. Chain of command works wonders when it's maintained properly.

I'd have no problem with someone checking sports scores etc on a daily basis as long as quotas are being met and work is being done on time. If not, then there is a problem obviously.