Every webmaster for themselves - FU Community

[FightThePatent]

This is exactly what the big players and those that have signed with Acacia are saying to the rest of the adult industry. They did have a choice, they could have joined the Defense Fund, a group of defendants who have pooled their money together.

They are saying everyone is just competitors, and there is no community other than people posting random bits on message boards.

I remember back to 1999 - 2000, before the dot-bomb where I was meeting with some of the top players, and they were saying that they shared traffic with their competitors, signed up for each other's affiliate program, stood up for one another, partied with each other, it was like family.

People remember the industry fighting 1st amendment rights issues, in having someone come forward to defend everyone's right to do business.

But this is 2003, the top players are not taking a stand to defend the industry. Those that were fighting for 1st amendment rights in the past, have settled as well... does this mean that companies were looking out for their own business all this time? That people misinterpreted their actions to think they were protecting the industry, but really protecting individual interests?

If you purchased content content from zmaster.com from 1998 to 2001, then you have seen my work.

If you visited OnTheRopes.com from 1999 - 2001, you have seen my work.

If you have submitted a CP lead to asacp.org in the last 3 months, you have seen my work.

If you have read my website and my postings, you will have seen how dedicated I am to fighting for your rights to do business.

Even though part of the licensing settlement supposedly states that they can't be involved in any Acacia issues, my response is this: Fight The Patent Foundation will be involved in all kinds of patent abuse cases... so an "anonymous", private, or personal pledge/donation to FTPF doesn't mean it will go against Acacia, but for the next round of patent abuse cases...and they will come.. especially if Acacia can show to patent holders that this is a viable business model.

Acacia is like the Alamo of fights. Don't let the industry be beseiged by large number of attackers....unite and defend your rights to do business. If you don't, then just read history, it has a habit of repeating itself.

Learn more about Fight the Patent Foundation and how to make a pledge at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go


Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

I probably should have end my post with a question to invite discussion.

So, what do you think?



Fight the Patent!

[Vick]

The biggest difference between 1999 - 2000 (and earlier) and now is in 1999 - 2000 money was laying on the ground waiting to be picked up and being concerned (or acting like you were concerned) was affordable (a luxury you could afford).
We were working to increase revenues as opposed to today when we fight for market share.

The companies that have licensed with Acacia have done so in what they believe are there best interests. I don't agree it is saying F.U.

Where I believe the problem lies is in shortsightedness. I continue to raise the question what happens when the next company comes along extorting monies from adult oriented websites behind patents they bought? Or similar business models?

If you don't think I haven't looked at patents and saw what might be purchasable and may be applicable, well.........

The Adult On Line Entertainment Industry is becoming a real business environment

This is what goes along with it

[FightThePatent]

Vick,

Great post...

Bottom line summary in this question/debate, is there a sense of community or is it just biz-ness?

Sounds like 1 vote cast for it being just business....

(no offense to you at all Vick, you are presenting a realistic observation...and your support to FTPF does show you share in the idealism of community)

Have I gotten the wrong impression all along that there was a sense of community and comradary? Share your thoughts..especialling if you have been in the biz for the last 3-4 years.


Fight the Patent!

[Vick]

It's strictly business

Today I support Fight The Patent because I believe it is in my best interest

If Robert Berman calls me 10 minutes from now and offers me 10,000 shares of Acacia stock to license with them and allow Acacia to say they have licensed with Cloud 9 - I take the 10,000 shares

As that is unlikely to happen for now I (hope I') am prepared to go to court against Acacia if and when that time comes

While I find the work and effort you're doing admirable (and much needed) I will always act in my own best interest

This may come across as a little harsh but it's honest

[Carrie]

It's not about community, it's about money and how close the issue is to you.

As I told you on GFY and Vick mentioned above, people aren't making the money they used to. The majority of webmasters are clearing a few hundred bucks a month, I know at least 5 off the top of my head that have not made a sale in a YEAR.
So now they're told to donate - but two problems: 1) they don't have the money to donate, and 2) there's 2 places to donate, which should they donate to? (I am not asking for a response on this, just presenting the COMMON webmaster's point of view.)

As for how close the issue is to you... There are far more affiliates in this game than there are site owners and program owners. Those affiliates won't be threatened by Acacia, their sponsors will - so they don't see it as their fight. If one of their sponsors goes down, they'll simply change sponsors.

Many site owners and program owners won't do anything until the packet arrives at their door. It's like donating to the Cancer Fund... everyone likes to talk nice about how they wish cancer were eradicated, but no one gets involved in the fight until their wife or mom dies of cancer. Sad but true.

The "bullying" or "shaming" tactic used to get people to donate simply won't work. Bullying puts people on the defensive, and if you think anyone is going to be shamed into anything in this industry well, I've got a bridge in the desert to sell you. This is already one of the most shameful businesses a person can be involved in, so it takes quite a lot more than "hey you haven't donated yet" to get your fellow pornographers to perk up their ears.

Being part of Zmaster and On The Ropes I can only imagine what you've seen for yourself and certainly what you've heard from Lee Noga. But honestly what I am seeing from you is an "out of touch with how things are now" mindset. Back in '98 etc. there were a large group of webmasters, all of them were making good money, and they needed each other if for nothing more than comraderie.

Nowadays there are hundreds of thousands of webmasters, with over 125 different webmaster resources to visit. The majority are *not* making significant money. None of them "needs" any of the others, as there are full tutorials and free everything from content to hosting to fucking pre-built galleries and free sites available for them. They don't even HAVE TO WORK OR BUILD ANYTHING... why the hell should they care a bit about this business?? They've got NOTHING invested in it - not even the time it takes to build a custom full-page ad!! The industry has gone from being full of pioneers to being full of lazy lemmings who sit on their whiny asses and demand to be given everything for their precious 30 hits per WEEK of traffic. And the idiot sponsors are catering to these people, because 200 webmasters with 30 hits a week is 600 hits more than they'd have otherwise, and getting traffic is a dog-eat-dog world these days.

You keep on and keep on asking the question "why aren't more people getting involved" - there's your answer.

I think your efforts would be better spent in asking for donations of signature spots to promote the effort than trying to shame folks into donating - more people can afford that, at least. And focus the real effort on reaching the small site owners rather than the beer-money webmasters who have little investment and even less profit.

I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but I am just tired of seeing you walking around with those rose-colored glasses on and seemingly no concept of what it's really like out here these days, repeating the same question over and over without catching on to reality. :(

[*KK*]

While it might have been nice had everyone said FU to Acacia, that simply didnt happen and was rather unrealistic to expect. It's very easy to say that the big guys that have signed agreements are somehow betraying the community when you are not the one sitting here with a potentially massive amount of money hanging over your head - especially if you are a company that would be potentially liable for years past when revenues and profit margins were many times what they are at current levels.

The nature of business and the laws of economics themselves mean that a community is going to be superseded by what is in an individual company's best interests, if it was not that way then we'd have a socialist business community and that would be much worse than the way things are now.

At the end of the day, this is a business, not a charity and not a lifestyle for most people, and they will choose accordingly.

To continue to harp on the fact that they've signed agreements is a waste of time, imo. Now is the time that everyone who hasn't signed an agreement should be assessing the situation realistically and deciding what is best for their own interests.

If it is fighting Acacia, great. If not, then such is life, move on and do what you need to do.

Wasting time mooning over whats past is the biggest waste of time.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 21 2003, 12:09 PM
It's not about community, it's about money and how close the issue is to you.

As I told you on GFY and Vick mentioned above, people aren't making the money they used to. The majority of webmasters are clearing a few hundred bucks a month, I know at least 5 off the top of my head that have not made a sale in a YEAR.
So now they're told to donate - but two problems: 1) they don't have the money to donate, and 2) there's 2 places to donate, which should they donate to? (I am not asking for a response on this, just presenting the COMMON webmaster's point of view.)

As for how close the issue is to you... There are far more affiliates in this game than there are site owners and program owners. Those affiliates won't be threatened by Acacia, their sponsors will - so they don't see it as their fight. If one of their sponsors goes down, they'll simply change sponsors.

Many site owners and program owners won't do anything until the packet arrives at their door. It's like donating to the Cancer Fund... everyone likes to talk nice about how they wish cancer were eradicated, but no one gets involved in the fight until their wife or mom dies of cancer. Sad but true.

The "bullying" or "shaming" tactic used to get people to donate simply won't work. Bullying puts people on the defensive, and if you think anyone is going to be shamed into anything in this industry well, I've got a bridge in the desert to sell you. This is already one of the most shameful businesses a person can be involved in, so it takes quite a lot more than "hey you haven't donated yet" to get your fellow pornographers to perk up their ears.

Being part of Zmaster and On The Ropes I can only imagine what you've seen for yourself and certainly what you've heard from Lee Noga. But honestly what I am seeing from you is an "out of touch with how things are now" mindset. Back in '98 etc. there were a large group of webmasters, all of them were making good money, and they needed each other if for nothing more than comraderie.

Nowadays there are hundreds of thousands of webmasters, with over 125 different webmaster resources to visit. The majority are *not* making significant money. None of them "needs" any of the others, as there are full tutorials and free everything from content to hosting to fucking pre-built galleries and free sites available for them. They don't even HAVE TO WORK OR BUILD ANYTHING... why the hell should they care a bit about this business?? They've got NOTHING invested in it - not even the time it takes to build a custom full-page ad!! The industry has gone from being full of pioneers to being full of lazy lemmings who sit on their whiny asses and demand to be given everything for their precious 30 hits per WEEK of traffic. And the idiot sponsors are catering to these people, because 200 webmasters with 30 hits a week is 600 hits more than they'd have otherwise, and getting traffic is a dog-eat-dog world these days.

You keep on and keep on asking the question "why aren't more people getting involved" - there's your answer.

I think your efforts would be better spent in asking for donations of signature spots to promote the effort than trying to shame folks into donating - more people can afford that, at least. And focus the real effort on reaching the small site owners rather than the beer-money webmasters who have little investment and even less profit.

I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but I am just tired of seeing you walking around with those rose-colored glasses on and seemingly no concept of what it's really like out here these days, repeating the same question over and over without catching on to reality. :(
Ah yes....I have exorcised the old Netpond/Beta Brigade from you Carrie.

However as much as I believe in what Far L is doing...I dont know the Fight the Patent guy...so Id have to give my mon-ay to Spike and Far L.

Im going to have to agree with Carrie though. Your better off telling these guys why they are going to be next than trying the shaming or misleading bullshit. Outside of Fight The Patent ...Ive never heard of you -- and the first I hear is youve got your hand out.

Albiet its a good cause its a rough streach. Just the nature of this case has us all edgy. Weve got the self proclaimed creator of the adult interenst selling out...then Ken comes over and drops a press release on us trying to make us think its all being settle to protect us as he pisses down our backs. Point is...lots of folks trying to get theirs at the expense of others.
And PLEASE dont bring Lee into this arguement. I got a few old issues of Boardwatch magazine to sell you...

And Carrie I love you but donating a signature line isnt going to do DICK for this cause either.

Right now this issue does not directly impact me. So I havent bothered with any of the issues. However I have eseveral projects that Im praying to the Jettis Jesus to get Visa to bless them...then it will be a large concern.

Far -L will tell you...we saw this shit back in the dial up days when the mighty Compuserve saw this growing industry of Bulletin Board owners starting to erode the mighty market share. So they went after these owners over the H&R Block patent that they owned which pertained to the GIF format. Im sure you can see where that went by looking at graphics all around.

SEA however went out and sucessfully sued a software programmer called Phil Katz. They won and Phil had to turn over his newest compression software and wasnt able to pak or arc anymore files. The BBS community banded together and Phil went back to his mommas kitchen and created a faster tighter compression scheme which is called ZIP. The community pre bought this software to help him out and SEA looked like idiots for picking a fight with the little guy.

Dont give me this cry out that the independants arent able or willing to help out. Instead give us reasons as to why. Right now on the surface I see you repesenting a number of companies thqat have made HUGE cash over the years. Some of these little guys are looking up and wondering why they should contribute anythiong to help them out.

If you want to get pitty about it...I wonder if we examined the list ...how many of those companies do we see that are present or past sponsors of Oprano?

This is business dude. Dont give us a bunch of fucking lawyer speak. Maybe FTP and these enjoined companies need to drop in here and give us all a reason to join the fight. It worked for Phil Katz...

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 21 2003, 09:09 AM

I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but I am just tired of seeing you walking around with those rose-colored glasses on and seemingly no concept of what it's really like out here these days, repeating the same question over and over without catching on to reality.
Rose-colored glasses are off.. they make everything seem so happy and cheerful, like everything is just so wonderful in the world.

I understand everything you wrote and appreciate the time for you to express those thoughts to me and to everyone else reading.

If my efforts to bring awareness on this issue and my solution to fighting the problem (ie. Fight the Patent Foundation) is not a good one, then what is?

A perfectly valid answer to me would be "shut the F* up". Though that would not detract me from still trying to help those that have audio or video on their websites, to keep having that right, it does let me know the sentiment.

But this is not an answer, because it;s the ostrich head in the sand approach.

IMPA is another option.. and I am working with those guys on the issues. We have a very different approach, but still synergistic... so then fine, your answer might be to then donate to IMPA. You don't see them being as vocal as me because their hands are tied in some respects in dealing with Acacia. My mouth isn't tied and I can more free to say what i want.

IMPA has been running their donation drive long then I have, and they don't have as much donated as I have pledged.

Ask yourself, have you donated to IMPA or become a member? ALOT of people haven't.

Cancer is a harder thing to cure than fighting against a patent abuse case. There are more short term outcomes in dealing with patents than there is with cancer.

Understand the double-edged sword in your posts.. you are trying to present your opinion, and i respect that, but you cast a negative shadow upon my efforts, that others will read.

For those that know and respect you, your words carry weight over mine for those that don't know me.

So the overall affect is you are contributing to the failure of my efforts.

I have given up my personal and professional time to fight this fight....who else is going to step in when i finally get tired of the apathy and negative responses?



Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by gonzo@Oct 21 2003, 10:07 AM
Your better off telling these guys why they are going to be next than trying the shaming or misleading bullshit. Outside of Fight The Patent ...Ive never heard of you -- and the first I hear is youve got your hand out.

I fail to see in any of my posts that i have used "shaming and misleading bullshit".

Please point it out so that I can know what you are talking about.

I have been a lurker in this industry for 5 years, of course you dont' know who I am "FightThePatent" came into existance August 12. If you were a member of OnTheRopes.com, i am "dj" I built the site ask Lee Noga.

More recently, I am the CTO for ASACP... I give my professional time to that organization to fight against CP.

I don't just talk about the issues, I act on them.

So if you are giving your money to IMPA.. that's great... I support their efforts as well.

If you think that i am spouting bullshit, please call me on it and point it out.

I am sticking my neck out, my tongue out, and hands waving to get people's attention to the issue.

Maybe you would rather just wait and see if Far-L and Spike are successful... i know that alot of people are doing that.. I think they will be... .. but who is going to stand up to USA Video, or SightSOund, or E-Data, or Burst.com should they come next to the industry with their audio/video patents?

Do you think the current 11 defendants are going to have enough money to also fight that patent?

Maybe some of the companies who settled with Acacia will finally get it, and fight the new patent abuse holder.

Maybe after YOU get served with a lawsuit from Acacia or from other patent holders that you will understand what I have been talking about.

If you and anyone else is successful in convincing people that my efforts are not worth paying attention to, then You can deal with the patent holders at that time, I'll be off doing things not-related to the internet and technology... these patent abuse cases are ridiculous and will get worse that for people like me who are technology innovators, it's stifling.

So i am passionate about this issue, and driven to fight against it. But my efforts can easily be diffused by the very people that I am trying to help.



Fight the Patent!

[gonzo]

Originally posted by FightThePatent+Oct 21 2003, 02:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FightThePatent @ Oct 21 2003, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--gonzo@Oct 21 2003, 10:07 AM
Your better off telling these guys why they are going to be next than trying the shaming or misleading bullshit. Outside of Fight The Patent ...Ive never heard of you -- and the first I hear is youve got your hand out.

I fail to see in any of my posts that i have used "shaming and misleading bullshit".

Please point it out so that I can know what you are talking about.

I have been a lurker in this industry for 5 years, of course you dont' know who I am "FightThePatent" came into existance August 12. If you were a member of OnTheRopes.com, i am "dj" I built the site ask Lee Noga.

More recently, I am the CTO for ASACP... I give my professional time to that organization to fight against CP.

I don't just talk about the issues, I act on them.

So if you are giving your money to IMPA.. that's great... I support their efforts as well.

If you think that i am spouting bullshit, please call me on it and point it out.

I am sticking my neck out, my tongue out, and hands waving to get people's attention to the issue.

Maybe you would rather just wait and see if Far-L and Spike are successful... i know that alot of people are doing that.. I think they will be... .. but who is going to stand up to USA Video, or SightSOund, or E-Data, or Burst.com should they come next to the industry with their audio/video patents?

Do you think the current 11 defendants are going to have enough money to also fight that patent?

Maybe some of the companies who settled with Acacia will finally get it, and fight the new patent abuse holder.

Maybe after YOU get served with a lawsuit from Acacia or from other patent holders that you will understand what I have been talking about.

If you and anyone else is successful in convincing people that my efforts are not worth paying attention to, then You can deal with the patent holders at that time, I'll be off doing things not-related to the internet and technology... these patent abuse cases are ridiculous and will get worse that for people like me who are technology innovators, it's stifling.

So i am passionate about this issue, and driven to fight against it. But my efforts can easily be diffused by the very people that I am trying to help.



Fight the Patent![/b][/quote]
At the risk of starting a pissing match which I dont want to do because I do fully understand the implications of the suit ....I must ask you -- did you go to the Confucy School of Deflection?

Both Carrie and I have asked some honest questions which I eagerly want to hear the answers to...

Ive known Far L for 17 years and Im not just waiting to see what happens.

Instead of using some of John MacAfee's marketing techniques just give us a little more common man insght as to whats going on. Not all of us are CTO's.

[Vick]

When Brandon/Fight the Patent first started his/the campaign I asked the same questions, who are you, where did you come from, why are you doing this

From the answers I got and what I was able to find out on my own what Brandon/Fight the Patent is saying in regards to himself is true

Beyond that just remember it really isn't a "community" thing as much as it is self interest (for me) and perhaps in Brandon/Fight the Patent's case doing what he feels is right

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Vick@Oct 21 2003, 02:57 PM
When Brandon/Fight the Patent first started his/the campaign I asked the same questions, who are you, where did you come from, why are you doing this

From the answers I got and what I was able to find out on my own what Brandon/Fight the Patent is saying in regards to himself is true

Beyond that just remember it really isn't a "community" thing as much as it is self interest (for me) and perhaps in Brandon/Fight the Patent's case doing what he feels is right
Yeah I think hes going to find that appealing to the ME factor will land him a lot more success than his current methodology.

I wish him luck at what he is trying to achieve...for ME the best thing to do is to get in touch with Far L and go from there. Too many voices confuses us dumb assed country boys.

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by gonzo@Oct 21 2003, 11:43 AM

Both Carrie and I have asked some honest questions which I eagerly want to hear the answers to...

Instead of using some of John MacAfee's marketing techniques just give us a little more common man insght as to whats going on. Not all of us are CTO's.
Thanks for participating in this spirited debate.... i do appreciate the responses.

But you or carrie have not asked me any questions that I have not answered.

If i have, please re-state.. i have re-read your posts and failed to see a question. I answer people's questions on daily basis in both email and on boards, shying away from a question is not the way i handle things.

I do not understand what you mean when you say i am using "John MacAfee's marketing techniques".

I have stated it many times, because the issue is so simple. And so i will be brief in the summary:

If you have audio or video files on your website, companies like Acacia, SightSound, USA Video, Burst.com, and E-data have patents that could affect your business.

Acacia is sending out "iinformation packets" to webmasters to say that they are infringing and have to pay.

If you have not gotten one of these packets, just wait, as they ramp up more of their efforts, they will pick out new targets, especially after Dec 1st.

The patent claims are bogus in my opinions, and 11 defendants like Home Grown Video are going to court to prove the infringement claims wrong.

After Acacia gets knocked down, there will be many more patent infringement cases, some from within the industry.

Who is going to stand up to them? The 11 defendants don't get their money back when they win the court case. Who else is going to have enough money to defend the next wave?

I have an answer to the problem.

If i can't convince people to join my solution, then I have no solution, and the answer to whether there is community or not has been answered definitively. I believe there is community, and I will accept the answer by either action or in-action. Until then, it's all speculation on all of our parts.


Fight the Patent!

[Carrie]

Yes, I have donated to IMPA - I speak my mind but I also back up my mouth :)
I also carried a sig for IMPA for months over at GFY until WillyB died and still do carry a sig for IMPA at Netpond.

Brandon I'm not trying to cast doubt on your efforts, hell I applaud your efforts.
What I'm saying is - your approach is wrong. The people you are targeting are the wrong people.

Yes, keep getting the word out, but quit trying to shame beer money affiliate webmasters into forking over any cash. It's not gonna happen. You need to be contacting the small to medium-sized paysite owners and program owners and getting *them* to make pledges. IN PRIVATE, not out on the boards where Acacia will see them pledging money to you or IMPA and thereby making themselves targets.

Your efforts are putting the very people you're trying to save at risk! Can't you see that?
On this board alone you've brought attention to Trev, MikeAI, Nick, Vick, Colin and JR... god you even put their names into the subject of a thread and challenged them to pledge to you out in the open for all of Acacia's goons to see. Do you think they're not watching this board? They are - they're watching all of the boards.

You need to re-evaluate your method of operation here and on ALL of the boards. You need to take your pledge drive to private email and save the boards for informing folks as to what's going on and giving them an addy where they can pledge without having their name displayed publically. Quit trying to get all of those beer money webmasters to give a shit... this is 2003, not 1997. It's not gonna happen.

Whenever someone asks you a question it would also behoove you not to take on the GW Bush attitude of "if you're not with me, you're against me" and/or play the martyr. Just answer the question, already. People are asking because they WANT to know. That shows an interest in what you're saying and what you're doing, but they want more information - yet you act as if they're putting you on the spot and trying to put you down.

Just... arrrghhh. :headwall:

[Anthony]

Dude,

Adult communities died a long time ago. There are too many people all trying to get the same traffic and same cc's from surfers to call it that.

You keep talking about fighting this and fighting that. How exactly are you going to do that?

You ask for money that if the amount reaches 250k will be considered contributions... What do you consider them before 250k? Party money?

I don't know you, and frankly, I've seen too many the sky is falling, send me money and I'll tell you what to do, or give you info so you can protect yourself BS since 1999.

You didn't answer my questions in YNOT chat when I asked this: Who are you responsible too? How do we know the money is being used for what you say it is? What is the money being spent on?

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by gonzo@Oct 21 2003, 12:05 PM
Yeah I think hes going to find that appealing to the ME factor will land him a lot more success than his current methodology.

ok, different tactic.....


The illusion and abstact ideals of community is an urban myth. There is no community, just individual businesses acting upon self-survival decisions.

I am sure you will then agree that Larry Flynt did not stand up for the adult community in the fight for 1st amendment rights, he fought for HIS 1st amendmend rights and those of Hustler.

All of those people who looked up to him as a hero, are fools who are idolizing someone that has not stayed consistent with their leadership in fighting against Acacia.

He actually was just fighting to protect his business, and if along the way it helped others, than that's great. but who wants to help their competitors?

So I am looking for 2,500 webmasters who want to keep their business going, without being TAXED by Acacia and other patent holders. Taking $1,500/year or 2% of GROSS (which ever is greater) adds up to alot of money when you look at your NET.

2% of GROSS revenue could be like 20% or more of NET, once you factor in payouts, commissions, bandwidth, etc.

Pledging $100 is like insurance that a large group of people buy into.

What do you get? An ACLU-like organization that will provide defense attornies to support in the defense against infringement claims, including prior art and expert witness testimony. FTPF will also petition USPTO to invalidate bad patents with presentation of prior art.

The starting $250,000 will be matched by greater amount of pledges from mainstream when I take the Foundation to them for soliciation of funds.

I have more credibility going to mainstream with $250K in a warchest, then with nothing but an atruistic and idealistic idea.

This problem of patent abuse affects you today with Acacia, and will affect you tomorrow with all kinds of patents who feel that getting people to pay licenses for patents that could be invalidated, is a viable business model.

If you feel that $100 pledged today to support Fight the Patent Foundation will help you continue to do business, then pledge at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go


If you don't think it's worth a $100 pledge, then I hope you find insurance somewhere else that will bail you out.. ACLU and EFF aren't focused on patents.


Fight the Patent!

[Anthony]

Great. What makes you think MAINSTREAM will have anything to do with you once they find out that PORNOGRAPHERS have given you a warchest to fight ACAIA?

What makes you think that MAINSTREAM won't circle their own wagons with an organization that caters to their interest and not the scum PORNERS?

Before you say that the interests are both the same, try explaining interracial granny cum sluts to Disney and seeing if they will jump on the same bandwagon as you.

IMO, your quest is doomed. I for one don't like your tactics, and could care less who you shame in joining your fight.

[homegrownmof]

Jesus Christ,

Oprano has to be the most jaded, callous place on the net.

Carrie, Gonzo, Anthony,

Brandon has been a huge help to the fight. Both in generating prior art himself and inspiring others to do the same.

What is the problem? I've seen him make posts that perfectly encapsulate the whole issue.

Anthony,

Brandon is fighting by getting the "message" out on the boards. He is raising money. He is finding prior art. Do you even have a clue about what is going on?

"party money"? Are you trying to be cute or just acting stupid?

[Anthony]

Originally posted by homegrownmof@Oct 21 2003, 12:43 PM
Jesus Christ,

Oprano has to be the most jaded, callous place on the net.

Carrie, Gonzo, Anthony,

Brandon has been a huge help to the fight. Both in generating prior art himself and inspiring others to do the same.

What is the problem? I've seen him make posts that perfectly encapsulate the whole issue.

Anthony,

Brandon is fighting by getting the "message" out on the boards. He is raising money. He is finding prior art. Do you even have a clue about what is going on?

"party money"? Are you trying to be cute or just acting stupid?
Mof,

Are you saying my questions are not valid?

Are you saying that if I pledge money, I do not have a right to know where and how that money is being spent?

I don't give a fuck what Brandon does with his time and money, it's his. I do give a fuck about mine.

[Far-L]

Couple of things...

All the people involved in actual suits with Acacia right now chose to fight this because of a well considered business decision.

We don't want to pay their fees because we say the patents are invalid and non applicable. We contend that Acacia has abused the patent process in order to achieve unethical goals.

We are all looking at the long term health of our businesses and our bottom line. We all decided not to pay for something that we should not have to pay. Looking at the business landscape, we knew that there was a rising tide of these types of frivolous patent suits and we decided to draw the line in the sand immediately. Speaking for Homegrown, we are certainly not one of the industry "giants" but for us it was still worth it to fight.

One of the most important contributors to our efforts has been Brandon at FTP. He has been helpful finding prior art and speaking out on the issues involved.

We are really looking forward to our day in court.

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Anthony@Oct 21 2003, 12:25 PM

You didn't answer my questions in YNOT chat when I asked this: Who are you responsible too? How do we know the money is being used for what you say it is? What is the money being spent on?
Great questions.. if you wrote them in the chat room while i was on the humpday show, i didn't see it... it's hard to talk and read at the same time, so i looked away from the chat room.

Who are you responsible too?

Right now, only to myself... with Fight the Patent Foundation, it would be a 501c3 non-profit organization with charters and bylaws, etc.

A Board of Directors will be built up to include highly visible tech/internet leaders. An advisory board will be judging which kinds of cases to take on, actions, etc.

At that point, I am responsible to the Board of Directors.


How do we know the money is being used for what you say it is?


Sounds like a credibility issue question. If $250K is pledged and I start asking for that money to be converted to donations, yes, it is a possibility I could just run away with the money. Having formed a corporation and such still doesn't give an credibility, since it is easy to setup a bogus or shell of a corporation.

But the real possibility, is that people who do know me, will be the ones that do the vouching..already have some listed on my Endorsements page, but when it comes to actually writing the check or paying by credit card, I will first be able to show the charter, the bylaws, the incorporation papers and the people who would vouch for my integrity.

Right now, a pledge does not count as money, so yes, it's easy to give a pledge, but when the time comes to collect, I am sure the questions of credibility will be asked..and i am prepared to present that now, as well as later.



What is the money being spent on?

RIght now, I am not collecting any money, spending my own money (or losing potential income) by doing this effort of advocacy.

WHEN the goal is reached, and the money is collected the money gets spent this way:

-Very modest salary for me to do this full time (3k/month)
-Pay for Director's insurance and attract Board of Directors
-Hire some patent attorney to get involved
-Contract with a developer to build out the Prior Art search system where people can contribute leads and earn points for prizes
-Solicit mainstream companies for additional donations
-Attract Media attention
-Help any webmaster who gets served with a lawsuit in providing defense attorneys, prior art searches and expert witnesses through the 'pay it forward' concept.
-insert more stuff here.


I hope that i have answered your questions satisfactorily, please feel free to ask more.

Fight the Patent!

[Anthony]

Originally posted by FightThePatent+Oct 21 2003, 12:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FightThePatent @ Oct 21 2003, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Anthony@Oct 21 2003, 12:25 PM

You didn't answer my questions in YNOT chat when I asked this: Who are you responsible too? How do we know the money is being used for what you say it is? What is the money being spent on?
Great questions.. if you wrote them in the chat room while i was on the humpday show, i didn't see it... it's hard to talk and read at the same time, so i looked away from the chat room.

Who are you responsible too?

Right now, only to myself... with Fight the Patent Foundation, it would be a 501c3 non-profit organization with charters and bylaws, etc.

A Board of Directors will be built up to include highly visible tech/internet leaders. An advisory board will be judging which kinds of cases to take on, actions, etc.

At that point, I am responsible to the Board of Directors.


How do we know the money is being used for what you say it is?


Sounds like a credibility issue question. If $250K is pledged and I start asking for that money to be converted to donations, yes, it is a possibility I could just run away with the money. Having formed a corporation and such still doesn't give an credibility, since it is easy to setup a bogus or shell of a corporation.

But the real possibility, is that people who do know me, will be the ones that do the vouching..already have some listed on my Endorsements page, but when it comes to actually writing the check or paying by credit card, I will first be able to show the charter, the bylaws, the incorporation papers and the people who would vouch for my integrity.

Right now, a pledge does not count as money, so yes, it's easy to give a pledge, but when the time comes to collect, I am sure the questions of credibility will be asked..and i am prepared to present that now, as well as later.



What is the money being spent on?

RIght now, I am not collecting any money, spending my own money (or losing potential income) by doing this effort of advocacy.

WHEN the goal is reached, and the money is collected the money gets spent this way:

-Very modest salary for me to do this full time (3k/month)
-Pay for Director's insurance and attract Board of Directors
-Hire some patent attorney to get involved
-Contract with a developer to build out the Prior Art search system where people can contribute leads and earn points for prizes
-Solicit mainstream companies for additional donations
-Attract Media attention
-Help any webmaster who gets served with a lawsuit in providing defense attorneys, prior art searches and expert witnesses through the 'pay it forward' concept.
-insert more stuff here.


I hope that i have answered your questions satisfactorily, please feel free to ask more.

Fight the Patent![/b][/quote]
Thank you Brandon for your response.

When can we expect the Non Profit Corp to be setup?

[gonzo]

Originally posted by homegrownmof@Oct 21 2003, 03:43 PM
Jesus Christ,

Oprano has to be the most jaded, callous place on the net.

Carrie, Gonzo, Anthony,

Brandon has been a huge help to the fight. Both in generating prior art himself and inspiring others to do the same.

What is the problem? I've seen him make posts that perfectly encapsulate the whole issue.

Anthony,

Brandon is fighting by getting the "message" out on the boards. He is raising money. He is finding prior art. Do you even have a clue about what is going on?

"party money"? Are you trying to be cute or just acting stupid?
Moffitt...

If being jaded is asking questions when someone asks me for some cash then I guess Im jaded. I asked some questions that I wanted a few simple answers too.

You guys have know me a LONG time and you know that I dont take this biz lightly. Yeah this is Oprano and you know that we like our facts cold and hard. Its just good business sense. This isnt a feel good board where we talk about the lighting on a models ass or what you had for dinner with your momandthem...

I support what Homegrown is doing. And the thread of GFY [which i responded too] about fli, and grasprt files was a very good one.
You have to keep in mind Serge is the only one that gets away with being high and mighty around here...[and Mike calls him on that too].

Now you tell me whats so callous about asking a few questions that went unanswered?



Last edited by gonzo at Oct 21 2003, 04:14 PM

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 21 2003, 12:22 PM
You need to be contacting the small to medium-sized paysite owners and program owners and getting *them* to make pledges. IN PRIVATE, not out on the boards where Acacia will see them pledging money to you or IMPA and thereby making themselves targets.


I thought those kinds of people did read the boards.. am i misinformed?

You are right about the public calling out... I did apologize to those that pledge about that... at first it was a game with Trev since he responded who he would like to see pledge before he did. In hindsight, i do regret taking that approach, because i was putting people on the spot, and i know that it's not fair to do (so i do apologize for that).

On my pledge form, I ask if people wanted their names to be listed on the endorsement page (which i have chosen not to do).

On that form (http://www.fightthepatent.com/pledge) you have to specifically select the YES answer.

So far, many people - including Oprano ones, have selected YES, because they were not afraid of having their name be used. I have chosen not to publish any names.

The people who then posted that they pledged, did so on their own. They could have just let the thread die out,but i believe the reason they did so, was because they wanted others to know that they support the idea.

Why not ask them why they pledged if you don't believe in my words?

It's the lurkers that read these boards that seldom post, are the ones that I am trying to reach. Looking at the pledge total of $31,000, it would seem that posting on message boards does work.. and that when they pledge, it's all held private, only the pledge total amount is ever revealed... so i am not putting anyone in jeopardy of Acacia.

I know they read the boards, I know they hit my website, but no where do i reveal the confidentiality of the info of people who have made the pledge.

I am trying to also take this discussion in private, to contact people in email, but as you know, it is hard as well...people get hit with spam all the time. People do read the boards, and that's where they can decide for themselves to offer their beer money... i don't make anyone do anything, other than inspire them to join the fight.

At the same time, I am very vocal on the boards.. if I have disrupted your normal conversations on Oprano, then i'll be waiting for the boot out the door. Sorry that my threads have caught your attention and diverted them to whatever it is your usual conversations are about, but I feel very strong that these are important issues that need to be addressed.


Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by gonzo@Oct 21 2003, 01:02 PM

Now you tell me whats so callous about me asking a few questions that went unanswered?
I don't think you are being callous at all.. i totally appreciate people calling me on my stuff, helps me to explain things.

If you have a question, please ask it... i thought I have addressed your questions.

i expected and accept public scrutiny for my efforts... you are atleast posting your thoughts, whereas so many stay silent.... so if your posts speak for them, then I will answer them and i will answer you.

Fight the Patent!

[*KK*]

I dont think its anything against Homegrown, Brandon or anyone else, its simply the nature of business to want to know the answers to fiscal and other questions when the situation is something that has the potential to affect so many businesses.

Having 250k pledged isn't really that great of an idea, imo.

Especially if its not collected.

The better idea, if I were setting it up, would be to get an escrow account with a reputable law firm and actually solicit monies, with the understanding that they would be held by the firm until such time as the goals were met and the company could go forward. If the situation did not come to fruition then all monies would be returned to the donating parties

501&copy; 3 does not afford the same tax benefits as a 4 if I am not mistaken - a local Phx charity I am involved with has been working for quite some time to get the status corrected in order to afford the full benefits under the tax code to donors.

[gonzo]

I DONT agree with your tactics....I DO agree with what your doing.
To clear up any misinterpretation I'm going to kick in my part as well.

Is that about clear as mud?

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Anthony@Oct 21 2003, 12:54 PM

When can we expect the Non Profit Corp to be setup?
Another great question..,,.

The way this Fight the Patent Foundation Pledge Drive works is that people pledge a minimum of $100 to http://www.FightThePatent.com/go

When the pledge counter gets closer to $250,000... I pay to get FTPF incorporated, filing with the IRS for non-profit status, etc. I get the bylaws and charters completed.

Then I present the info on a new set of web pages on FightThePatent.org (not up yet) and contact each person about the new website, info about FTPF, and where to turn their pledge into a donation.

Currently, I respond to every pledge personally.. no canned letter, a person letter of thanks. For those that have pledged, they can attest to this.

When will this all happen? That depends on how fast the pledges come in.. I would love to have this up and running by InterNext.. would be something to talk about there....



Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by *KK*@Oct 21 2003, 01:08 PM
The better idea, if I were setting it up, would be to get an escrow account with a reputable law firm

501© 3 does not afford the same tax benefits as a 4 if I am not mistaken -
An excellent suggestion about going with Escrow approach, I had not thought of that..... it touches upon the idea that if people are motivated right now, they should contribute now.. but if i wait til weeks/months later, that spark to pledge, might be gone due to financial situations or whatever. A good idea... though, having additional expenses of an attorney and escrow are not desireable. I am looking for intent, and to know full well that a percentage of the pledges won't come through as donations for their own reasons.



Your org's charter is different than mine in classifications:

----------------------------------
LOBBYING ACTIVITY:

Generally, 501 &copy;(4)s may engage in unlimited lobbying activity, whereas 501 &copy; (3)s may only lobby on an insubstantial basis.

DEDUCTIBILITY OF CONTRIBUTIONS:

There is no limit on how much a corporation or individual may contribute to a 501 &copy; (3) or 501 &copy;(c4). However, a contribution to a 501 &copy;(3) may be deducted as a charitable contribution from the contributor's taxable income, whereas contributions made to 501 &copy;(4)s are not tax-deductible.

POLITICAL ACTIVITY:


A 501 &copy;(3) is absolutely prohibited from making politicalcontributions or expenditures to a candidate or PAC, including in-kind contributions.

Under very limited circumstances, a 501 &copy;(4) may make expenditures on behalf of a federal candidate, but as an incorporated organization, it is generally prohibited from making contributions or expenditures under federal election law.

-----------------------------



My charter would classify as a 501&copy;3 with contributions being tax-deductible.. this important to get funds from companies, especially larger contributions so they can write it off.



Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by gonzo@Oct 21 2003, 01:08 PM
I DONT agree with your tactics....I DO agree with what your doing.
To clear up any misinterpretation I'm going to kick in my part as well.

Is that about clear as mud?
Clear as water, thanks for the pledge!


Fight the Patent!

[homegrownmof]

Anthony,

I think it is the way you asked the questions. For someone who has given so much of his time to be actively involved in this, Brandon deserves better.

Of course you have a right to know where the $$ is being spent I was not addressing that part.

I know you dont give a shit about what other people do with their time and money- to the people that have put tons of $$$ and time into this a statement like that just seems assinine and disrespectful.

That is my opinion.

I think people should simply be thankful for what Brandon is doing. If he doesn't personally take time out of his busy day (of helping educate everyone else) to answer all your questions (that you could easily answer with a little research), maybe you should hire an attorney to answer them.

Gonzo,

points taken.

[Far-L]

All I can say is that I am absolutely impressed with the intelligent level of discourse that this issue has engendered on Oprano.

I am absolutely grateful for the hard questions and solid support from the "Opranauts".

Many have talked the talk but few have walked the walk.

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Anthony@Oct 21 2003, 12:42 PM
What makes you think that MAINSTREAM won't circle their own wagons with an organization that caters to their interest and not the scum PORNERS?


Before when i was thinking there was an adult webmaster community, I would have said that mainstream is so fragemented, that there isn't a set of boards that webmasters hangout and post and read and share ideas.

Webmasters work for companies, it's their job, they go home at night.

Webmasters in the adult biz are many time the boss as well.

Http://www.YouMayBeNext.com (http://Http://www.YouMayBeNext.com) is the closet to a grouping of people coming together to fight.. i think that these people will band together to knock down the patent, then go home when it's over..... probably too burnt out, or more interested in their own business, to want to create an organization that looks after others.

I already contacted EFF.org.. i exchanged several emails with the Chairman, they are spread out all over, that they don't focus on patent cases.

ACLU won't help, it's not in their charter.

There is no other entity, unless some of the big players want to start their own.. and most will just work it out themselves... who's rallying to help Microsoft against patent claims?? No one.



Now that I have accepted that there is no community with adult webmasters, and that everyone is fragmented, then the first thing to tackle, is just getting the 250K pledged.

This task already has betting odds against it by so many... so if I can pull this off, then i have a new task, which you have correctly identified, how do I convince mainstream to pledge money.

My answer is this.... they are donating to an organization that they believe helps fight against patent abuse...whether it be to help them, or just for the greater good..

Will they be bothered that "porn dollars" helped start the organization? who knows.. but FTPF isn't an adult organization like IMPA.. so there is "adult" stigma, other than what someone tries to inflect by doing a good search on my efforts within the industry.

You think a defendant is gonna ask me if the money spent to help them came from "porn"??? If they do, how can i tell them that x dollars from the "dirty porn guys" won't be used to help them, but instead, we'll use this "nice and clean" money to defend them?

I am not sure what you mean by not liking my tactics?

For posting on boards, information that answers people's questions?

Because i am being a "board whore" in asking people for donations?

i realize that no one likes an ongoing Jerry Lewis telethon, but my totals of $31,000 clearly show I have not reached a wide enough audience.

If you pledged, then you can tune me out... If you haven't and don't want to , put me in your ignore list or turn the channel.

If I am bringing this info to your attention for the first time, despite Acacia being in the news for over a year, then I have done my job...

If I fail to reach the pledge total, then that means the individual webmasters have spoken, there is no need for the solution that i propose..and i accept that... so next question, when will you give up when you see you won't reach the total?

Probably right after InterNext if the total is still short or when i get beaten down enough by negative posts and apathetic responses and give up and go back to my own world of making money for myself.


Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Far-L@Oct 21 2003, 01:38 PM

Many have talked the talk but few have walked the walk.
Some have talked the talk and walked the walk..... challenging me with their questions and posts, weighing the merits, and then pledging.

This is why i continue to post and answer all posts.. I don't give up easily for something that i believe in.

I have a thick skin, and don't mind any negative comments.. but over time, that thick skin can wear down, so admit that I am no superman, no super activist, and no saint.

I am a businessman much like yourselves, and I am doing what most may not understand, selflessly giving my personal and professional time to fighting for everyone's rights, not just mine own.

So do i take all of this patent crap personally?..... yes i do.. that's what fuels my drive and passion to get up each day to fight against this and other absurdities that affect business and innovation.


Fight the Patent!

[Anthony]

Originally posted by homegrownmof@Oct 21 2003, 01:36 PM
Anthony,

I think it is the way you asked the questions. For someone who has given so much of his time to be actively involved in this, Brandon deserves better.

Of course you have a right to know where the $$ is being spent I was not addressing that part.

I know you dont give a shit about what other people do with their time and money- to the people that have put tons of $$$ and time into this a statement like that just seems assinine and disrespectful.

That is my opinion.

I think people should simply be thankful for what Brandon is doing. If he doesn't personally take time out of his busy day (of helping educate everyone else) to answer all your questions (that you could easily answer with a little research), maybe you should hire an attorney to answer them.

Gonzo,

points taken.
Mof,

My way of asking may be abrasive, but they do get the point across.

I hope Brandon the best in his endeavor.

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Anthony@Oct 21 2003, 02:05 PM
My way of asking may be abrasive, but they do get the point across.

Yes it did , and I appreciated the questions since they gave me a chance to reveal more information.

It was no Barbara Walters interview, and i didn't cry in the end.


:yowsa:



Fight the Patent!

[*KK*]

I think that escrowing the money is the only way to go with it Brandon, regardless of the cost. Which should not be prohibitive, you can get a cheap attorney to administer the trust on it and it not be an issue.

The question in this community as you refer to it, is as much what the money will be used for and what happens if its not than anything else.

Adding an attorney with a specific escrow contract for all donations would give you another layer of respectability (not you personally, just the endeavour) and would make many people more comfortable with the situation I'm thinking.

And if something happens and Acacia is invalidated very quickly, those that donated would not be unhappy with the situation either I'll bet.

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by *KK*@Oct 21 2003, 02:34 PM
I think that escrowing the money is the only way to go
I understand the point, but the issue I see is that while I am optimistic at reaching the goal, there is a realistic side of me that says it won't be reached.

So if people donated money into an escrow account and the goal was short, then the logistics or refunding $100 checks to 2,000+ indidivuals would be a nightmare.

Having an escrow account does not help with credibility, unless it was a well known attorney (as you pointed out)... i was going to ask what attorney do you respect in the industry that i could approach with doing such a thing, but how do you address my point about if the goal is not reached?

I am just being realistic here... i do want to see the goal reached, and i am trying my hardest to take flak, take opposition, take negativity, take great questions, but in the end, it's a real possibility that the goal won't be reached, and I don't believe in trying to boot strap an operation and burn through people's money...been there, done that.

Atlteast with a pledge, if it doesn't work out, then no costs are incurred by anyone, other than all the time that I have put in...and that's my personal gamble.


Fight the Patent!

[homegrownmof]

KK,

You are obviously an intelligent individual with vast industry knowledge, in addition to knowing many of the "players".

Ever considered being active member of the IMPA?

Never hurts to ask...

[SolarGodPower]

I just got back into my office, afer being out all day, so if some of the following seems "out of synch," forgive me -- but I just wanted to add a couple of things to this discussion:

This thread proves that 1) there is community, exchange and dialogue in the "adult" industry and 2) like any group we've got people with varous styles and approaches for getting at the truth -- be it challenging, supporting, asking heated questions, etc. I've long thought the boards are really WHERE community happens in this biz - and I've done all the conventions and parties and shit. But there's something about writing things out that brings a different flavor and "deminsion" to exchange, and I think that's why the boards are the connective tissue for a lot of us. Again: over 30 thousand bucks have been pledged to FTP, and a majority of that was precipitated by thread discusssions like this one. Kick ass!

I've been active in this biz for over six years, I guess I'd classify myself as a "medium-sizer" (in the playing field.) I'd gladly have my "real" handle and site urls and reseller program displayed, here, if I wasn't in the perdicatment I'm in right now (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=6445&s=7c27e865e7f7acedec9547b5cff50564) re: Acassholia. I'm familiar with Brandon via his various entereprises on the web (Zmaster, On the Ropes -- a forum I contributed to a lot in its heyday.) Involvement with both of those ventures meant that Brandon was actively involved with Lee Noga, and, well, Lee is a mascot of sorts in this biz. Enough said there -- so he's been around, and done great work online and worked with great people, movers and shakers.

In one of the posts above Brandon noted: "I don't think you are being callous at all...i totally appreciate people calling me on my stuff, helps me to explain things.

That's spoken like someone who is interested in persuing the truth in a situation. Committed to confronting (or provoking) challenges that allow for better, more pointed clarification. Is more interested in the principals that uphold fairness and right action -- than ego puffing and blowharding. When I spoke with Brandon on the phone the other day, after I hung up, I had the same impression. He is passionate about his stance, without being melodramatic or shrill. In fact he's one of the most well-informed, levelheaded people I've interacted with in a long time. He's "good people."

Tons of typing bandwidth could be spent bitching about who caved in, what big player didn't support the cause, the nature of the skattershot biz and the drowning beer money moonlighters, etc. etc. But it really doesn't matter. The fact is there IS someone right here, right now, demonstrating a lot of dedication and prescience, and you can either support the effort or not. Just the way you pay (or don't pay) for car insurance. It's really that simple -- and will get simpler and better organized as time goes on and Brandon impliments some of the ideas and suggestions that came to light in this bumpy but really great thread. Bravo to everyone who participated.


SGP

[Paul Markham]

Let me say why I'm fighting this patent and I think you should understand, I'm based in Czech which will not stand for any of these bullshit patents or parasite US lawyers.

I have been in porn since 1668 and it is a business community. This is an attack on that community and needs to be beaten. If you do not win it is very likely I will be richer. Let me explain.

Firstly, the patents holders do not want or need to deal with 300 or more paysite owners. It is in their interests to sell the rights to the highest bidders, be it 10 or 50. It is in the interest of those that have the license to eliminate the competition. Because it will not cost one single surfer.

With only 25, for instance, players with videos why bother with affiliates, link list, TGPs, traffic? All you will need is a few relevant words to get all the traffic you need from Search Engines "Porno Videos" will pull up the 100 sites available. May not be that easy but the need for 1,000s of webmasters driving clicks will be reduced. The rest of you can continue with "Image Only" sites.

Then there is another scenario, the EEC is looking at software patents and does not like what it sees coming from the US patent office. Plus suing someone in Europe is going to be very difficult and expensive, not impossible just difficult definitely not as easy, as in the US.

So will the providers of Internet Porn come from the otherside of the pond, or Japan, Australia, Canada? How hard will it be for the patent holders to put the screws on companies if they have hosting, CC Processing, etc overseas.

I say patent holders because if we do not put Acaia down hard there will be others, let anyone on the wings know this industry is not an easy touch. Whether you give to IMPA or FTPF is down to your judgement, but be assured if you all sit back and wait to be served you are playing Acacia's game.

As for those that did sign, well when we win this fight what will be there credibility, especially those that signed up and kept quiet? The affiliate/sponsor model is based on trust. Can't see me trusting someone who stabbed me in the back and wanted to keep quiet about it.

[Nickatilynx]

I have been in porn since 1668 and it is a business community.

Damn!!!! I betcha you have some tasty initial sketches! ;-))

With only 25, for instance, players with videos why bother with affiliates, link list, TGPs, traffic? All you will need is a few relevant words to get all the traffic you need from Search Engines "Porno Videos" will pull up the 100 sites available. May not be that easy but the need for 1,000s of webmasters driving clicks will be reduced. The rest of you can continue with "Image Only" sites.



What?

The thing that will reduce affiliates is more likely VISA.

Paul with the utmost respect , you may know a great deal about content. But you know dick about traffic.

There are so many mistakes in that paragraph , I literally do not have the time to correct them all.

But.....my " image only" sites have sent probably 200,000 joins to paysites with video over the years.

I mean """here are some pics of Emily...see the XXXhardcore video of her gangbang here"

I'm amazed



Last edited by Nickatilynx at Oct 22 2003, 01:24 AM

[Dravyk]

Well, well, someone has finally brought up the word "lobbying". That I saw as a good sign.

Then I saw this:

A 501 ©(3) is absolutely prohibited from making politicalcontributions or expenditures to a candidate or PAC, including in-kind contributions.

I think the number one thing to stop Acacia and all the other patent whores is lobbying. The US Patent Office has pretty much spent the last 10 years or so, with no idea whatsoever of anything remotely technical, giving rights away to everything from video streaming, to "the click", to the exit console and anything else!

In short, their ignorance has opened a legal and economic Pandora's Box of nightmares upon the Internet, with about twenty years of lawsuits with trillions of dollars that will be wasted.

What I think is required is a Patent Reform Act, one that is retroactive and little or no grandfather clauses. Something that will have an oversight committee re-review and have the authority to overturn all technological patents issued since 1990. That is the only way and the most effective way to stop all of this BS. A law needs to be passed to correct the wrongs of the moronic bureaucrats, before people are put out of business or give in to legal extortion or spend money on court case after court case.

Alas, it seems lobbying isn't among the priorities here. In fact, it seems it's been decided to be ignored. I wish it was otherwise. While I understand the tax write-off factor, to continually throughout the years never had any lobbying, any DC influence, any PAC contributions has been the greatest error this industry has made ... and apparently continues to make.

[Dravyk]

Oh, here's another example of the lunacy. Quite the oldie but a goodie (so to speak).

The patent on the frownie: http://www.despair.com/demotivators/frownonthis.html

Go ahead! Fucking sue me! :( :( :( :( :(

[brand0n]

all for 1 and 1 for me!