Congress supports Tax on adult webmasters

[FightThePatent]

For those that haven't been following the threads and news about Acacia, let me briefly bring you up to speed so you can understand why the thread topic is titled the way it is.

Acacia Research (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) has some patents (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/patents.htm) that claim essentially to owning the process of downloading audio or video files from a web server.

They sent out "information packets" to many companies, some adult, some to schools and universities.

They are demanding license fees (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/technology_int_adultent.htm) for payment of using their "patent".

Some adult websites have licensed their patent (see Press Releases at http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) while others have joined together to form the IMPA (http://www.impai.org) and to also become defendants in litigation.

FightThePatent.com (http://www.FightThePatent.com) was formed on August 12th as a one-man crusade to bring awareness to these issues and to assist the defendants to find prior art (with no compensation).

Many webmasters jumped into the search for prior art, using this page http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html to help find stuff to look for, and http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Squirt.html to see what prior art examples were posted.

FightThePatent.com has now broadened its scope to propose the start of Fight the Patent Foundation ("FTPF")(http://www.FightThePatent.com/go) to help fight against patent abuse.






And now that you have been brought up to speed.......


Acacia's licensing structure includes a minimum payment of $1,500/year if you make likess than $50K/year. If you make more, then the figure is like 2% of GROSS.

In licensing their patent, you have to open your books to them so they can verify your GROSS sales. When you sign the license agreement, there is a provision that states if the patent is found invalid, YOU DON"T GET YOUR MONEY BACK.

Having someone take 2% of your GROSS REVENUE is exactly like a tax...except you know the tax by the government is legit (whether you agree with it or not is a separate story). The Constitution created the provisions to start the Patent Office and Congress created Patent Laws. So companies like Acacia are enforcing their rights to (abuse) patent and civil law to enforce their claims.


What's of greater concern, besides my opinion that the patent is invalid given prior art, is that there are other patent holders in this space making similar claims with their patents (USA VIDEO, SIGHTSOUND).

If each one of these companies came around to charge 2%, along with other patent holders like patents on shopping carts, e-commerce, exit consoles, etc.... the resulting total tax would put the current corporate tax structure to shame.

At least with the IRS, you can deduct expenses to reduce your tax base.. .with these licensing fees, it's off the top. So 2% of GROSS could actually be like 20% of NET (or higher).

Do you want to pay more "taxes"?

If this makes you mad, join IMPA as a member... it's an adult industry organization that is a watchdog on many issues that concern webmasters, with patents being one of them.

Pledge $100 or more support for FTFP to become an ACLU-like organization that fights against patent abuse.


Fight the Patent!

[spazlabz]

FTP, I have been following this issue for awhile now so I jumped right in here as soon as I saw a new post on the subject. But the title of the thread is kind of misleading isn't it? I mean has anything changed in congress regarding the Acacia Patent claims?
Serious issue, needs our support, but where is the connection between the patent fight and congress?
please enlighten my ignorant ass


spaz

[Sharpie]

Yes, I think the headline might be a little misleading, but....... there are tons of others that are a little misleading everyday.

As Nick ponted out - apathy is rampant. Some times you have to hand feed information that webmasters and companies NEED to know. So, if 5 people become a little more enlightened to their benefit - I think maybe we can forgive him a little! There is SO much on the various boards everyday - is it hard to get peoples attention; and so many don't think these matters pertain to them.....ahahahahaha

[JR]

Originally posted by Sharpie@Oct 19 2003, 08:32 AM
Yes, I think the headline might be a little misleading, but....... there are tons of others that are a little misleading everyday.

As Nick ponted out - apathy is rampant. Some times you have to hand feed information that webmasters and companies NEED to know. So, if 5 people become a little more enlightened to their benefit - I think maybe we can forgive him a little! There is SO much on the various boards everyday - is it hard to get peoples attention; and so many don't think these matters pertain to them.....ahahahahaha
well said!

more to the point, i think its also a question of leadership. someone has to take charge, educate people, keep the issue in the foreground and lead people. posting headlines with "see i told you so", "when are you people going to wake up" and "all you have to do is call me if you have any questions" as others have done is certainly not leadership.

i applaud Brandon and his efforts. people may get tired of hearing it... but at the very least, it will be better when everyone is tired of hearing it because they know the details, the twists and turns, the state of affairs rather than because they just dont care... or because no one stepped up to make people understand its something they need to care about and get involved in.

keep up the good work! :)

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by spazlabz@Oct 19 2003, 08:07 AM
FTP, I have been following this issue for awhile now so I jumped right in here as soon as I saw a new post on the subject. But the title of the thread is kind of misleading isn't it?

The titling of the thread was intentional to get people's attention who normally might otherwise skip over ones with Acacia in them.

The title is not misleading... Congress enacted the Patent Laws that give Acacia and other patent abuse holders the right to use Civil Law to "convince" people to license their patents.

I am not saying that i am anti-patents.. patents have their place, especially ones that are narrow and very specific, and instead of broad.

Since Acacia is claiming a 2% of GROSS on revenue, it's no different than IRS asking for 21+% on taxes (tho IRS allows for deductions).

Since Congress created both the IRS and USPTO, the indirect conclusion, tho admittly sensationalized to bring attention, is that Congress does support a tax on Adult Websites.

I realize it's like play 6 Degrees of separation of Kevin Bacon, but I felt that more attention needs to be drawn to this subject, and maybe approaching from a different tactic, ie taxes, would get people involved... afterall, the tax man cometh for all.


Fight the Patent!

[Paul Markham]

Brandon is doing an excellent job and has devoted himself to fighting this and other patents abuses. Well done. :wnw:

We need someone to keep this in peoples faces and then keep them informed of what is happening. A big surprises was the number of people who did not know about Acacia when I sent out an email to all the people registered on my mailing list.

But then not everyone frequents the boards. Brandon, I've sent out a mailer get in touch with others who have email lists and ask them to do the same.

[Trev]

I'm kind of glad it was titled the way it was because as of late I must admit I've been getting tired of the whole Acacia situation and skipping over the threads...

but I'm glad I read this one, well done :okthumb:



Last edited by Trev at Oct 20 2003, 08:56 AM

[spazlabz]

Maybe I gave the impression that I was, in some weak way, attempting to Slam FTP over the titling of the thread. I was exspressing confusion over it. Unlike the feelings by some exspressed here, I have yet to tire of reading anything about Acacia. If tere was a thread entitle
"Berman's Ass developes Terminal Boils: Acacia Patents & Sues"
I'd read it. I can't get enough.
As for Fight The Patent and the work/attention he has brought to this issue, what can be said? How could you NOT admire him for what he is doing. Of course i do, I would have to be dumber than I already am to ignore his contribution in this fight, and I personally think a lot of people, including me should be kissing his ass (or sending him money if they can).
My original question was whats the connection between Congress and the fight? Here is the answer(s)
From Sharpie
As Nick ponted out - apathy is rampant. Some times you have to hand feed information that webmasters and companies NEED to know. So, if 5 people become a little more enlightened to their benefit - I think maybe we can forgive him a little! There is SO much on the various boards everyday - is it hard to get peoples attention; and so many don't think these matters pertain to them.....ahahahahaha
From Fight The Patent
The titling of the thread was intentional to get people's attention who normally might otherwise skip over ones with Acacia in them.

The title is not misleading... Congress enacted the Patent Laws that give Acacia and other patent abuse holders the right to use Civil Law to "convince" people to license their patents.

More from Fight The Patent
Since Congress created both the IRS and USPTO, the indirect conclusion, tho admittly sensationalized to bring attention, is that Congress does support a tax on Adult Websites.

I realize it's like play 6 Degrees of separation of Kevin Bacon, but I felt that more attention needs to be drawn to this subject, and maybe approaching from a different tactic, ie taxes, would get people involved... afterall, the tax man cometh for all.

And another reason/view from Trev
I'm kind of glad it was titled the way it was because as of late I must admit I've been getting tired of the whole Acacia situation and skipping over the threads...

but I'm glad I read this one, well done

Believe me when i say no disrespect was intended, nothing could be further from the truth.

spaz

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by spazlabz@Oct 20 2003, 01:46 AM
Maybe I gave the impression that I was, in some weak way, attempting to Slam FTP over the titling of the thread. I was exspressing confusion over it.

Spaz, no bad feelings at all.. i was fully aware the potential flak for making such a title... i deserved to be called on it... and i hopefully defended my reasons to show that in some twisted, abstract way, void of being high, that it was on topic.

I could have really sensationalized things to really get people to read the thread, but i think that is more wrong..... maybe i was a little wrong, ok, i accept getting my hands slapped for it...my bad, i'll learn better

:biglaugh:


Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

what's sad is that despite trying to sensationalize the thread title to draw attention, only 94 people have read the thread.

The thread read count is also very low on GFY....

so what does this mean? adult webmasters are completely apathetic? They only care about who's doing what to whom, or who rolls the hardest?

My current pledge counter of $29,000 is well short of $250,000... which the original idea was to find 2,500 webmasters to pledge $100.. this would spread the cost among a greater number to reduce the individual financial contribution.

A broad problem should find its solution amongst a broad amount of people.

Looks like i may not be able to count on the masses to care about their business, to now focus on maybe like 50 larger companies who can contribute $5000 each, etc.


Fight the Patent!

[spazlabz]

so what does this mean? adult webmasters are completely apathetic? They only care about who's doing what to whom, or who rolls the hardest?

Ya know, I don't think this is it nessesarily. I know for myself i have seen the subject of adult webmasters banding together to work for the common good for a few years before Acacia reared its ugly head. I even contacted a attorney (shame on me for not remembering his name) who was talking about forming one. He said he would let me know if it ever got off the ground........it hasnt.
I think people have lost two things, and its why they aren't paying special attention to these threads;
1)Thier fear of Acacia
2)That the need for prior art still exists
Acacia may have done a fine fine job of getting the media and investors to believe that they have 'Bulletproof' patents. But you and the IMPAI have done a fine, nay outstanding job of educating us all and showing PROOF (if your reading that Acacia......be afraid, be very afraid) yes PROOF of prior art. This could in effect have the total effect of people thinking
"Fuck it, they've won. No need to worry about it any more, so, Whose the asshole of the moment on the moron board?"
You success, no matter how limited or partial to date, could be the very thing that is hampering your progress.
2 years ago I would have written you at the very least a $500 check, but right now, I am searching for my own $500 checks. But FINALLY, I am gonna ask my wife (YES I ASK HER THESE THINGS) if i can send you some money. it won't be much, but it'll be what I can currently afford.
Thanks for looking out for us, both large and small companies who are just trying to do business without having to pay alibahba and his 40 attorneys

spaz

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Trev@Oct 19 2003, 11:56 PM
I'm kind of glad it was titled the way it was because as of late I must admit I've been getting tired of the whole Acacia situation and skipping over the threads...

but I'm glad I read this one, well done :okthumb:
Trev,

Thanks for posting your comment.. i realize that so many lurk (like i had been doing) and don't post their comments.

You posted in my Fight The patent Foundation thread (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=6166&s=750778a108fd85db617c4c20800f4a07) that you weren't going to pledge.

Given the fact that you understand how patent abuse can affect business.. you still don't see the need to support an entity that is looking to protect your rights to do business, absent of bad patents?

Maybe you don't have audio or video on your website, but there are so many other patent holders out there who are making it their business model to follow in Acacia's footsteps... and some will be from WITHIN the industry.

What will it take for you to support FTPF?

Who do I need to convince that you look up to, that if they showed their support, then you'll pledge your $100?

I am not singling you out.. I pose this question to all of the wembasters who have been reading the Acacia threads.

Since I am not taking any money from people, i am saying "Show me the Pledge"


Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by spazlabz@Oct 20 2003, 06:35 AM
But FINALLY, I am gonna ask my wife (YES I ASK HER THESE THINGS) if i can send you some money. it won't be much, but it'll be what I can currently afford.

I know all about the "ask her these things" things since my wife ALLOWS me to do the activist thing, since i am focused on bringing awareness and search for prior art, that i don't spend my time earning $$.

I am only seeking pledges from webmasters, not accepting any money. If, as a group, $250,000 can't be raised, to distribute the financial logistics over a broad base can't be done, then FTPF will not form.

If 2,500 webmasters pledged $100 each... then FTPF can be formed and do all the pro-active things i want to do to fight against patent abuse.

For the bigger players, if you can pledge more, that's fantastic...i had several pledge larger amounts because they were able to.

For the masses of adult webmasters, I understand the economics and struggles of your businesses, and that's why my thinking was to ask for a one-time contribution of $100... as a way of spreading the costs.

Keep in mind, the starting $250K, will be added on by mainstream companies when I show them i have a war chest started, already active in the fight, and looking for bigger donations from the larger companies to further build up the war chest.

$250K is just the startup money, I will raise more from mainstream, and not come bacl to the webmasters and ask for another round.

I am hoping that FTPF will be up and running before Vegas Internext... i will be there as a "booth bunny" for ASACP as well as might be on a panel that talks about patents and their affect on the biz.



Fight the Patent!

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by spazlabz@Oct 20 2003, 06:35 AM
You success, no matter how limited or partial to date, could be the very thing that is hampering your progress.


Yes! Exactly!

This is the reason I took the tactic of naming this thread the way i have.

You summed things up perfectly.


Fight the Patent!

[spazlabz]

I just went to FTP website and sent an e mail with my pledge. Hope i did it correctly because i didnt ee a pledge link :)

spaz

[Trev]

If you can show me that MikeAI, Nickatilynx, Vick, Colin and JR have pledged then I will.

They are the people I class as the movers and shakers around here so if they feel they should pledge, then so would I :D







* Theres more people that I class as movers and shakers but I think the few I have selected will do for my peice of mind :D

[FightThePatent]

Originally posted by Trev@Oct 20 2003, 07:21 AM
If you can show me that MikeAI, Nickatilynx, Vick, Colin and JR have pledged then I will.







* Theres more people that I class as movers and shakers but I think the few I have selected will do for my peice of mind :D
OK, so i need to be batting a 1000 to convince you? .500?




:blink:


Fight the Patent!