View Full Version : Vivid and Hustler Joint Statement
As most of you know, Hustler and Vivid recently signed a licence agreement with Acacia. After spending a large sum of money fighting this lawsuit, they settled for one simple reason, because it was the right business decision. It was the right decision for them and for their affiliates.
Hustler and Vivid have built their companies into what they are today by making a series of good business decisions over a long period of time. Some of these decisions have allowed others (including most of you) to greatly profit from the adult industry. There is a time and place to fight and it would be wise to have more faith in companies who have proven themselves over the course of time, rather than make uninformed decisions based on very limited information.
Hustler and Vivid share one common goal. That goal is to be a stable force in this very unstable industry and to provide affiliates with a "safe haven" for their traffic. Safe from attacks by Acacia or anyone else who might want to harm their businesses.
As part of their settlement agreements, all FlyntDigital and VividCash affiliates are indemnified from paying Acacia fees for traffic they send to these programs. This was a condition that was not given up easily and that Hustler and Vivid spent a lot of time and money negotiating for. Therefore, if Acacia decides to go after affiliates for "contributing" to the infringement of their patents, Hustler and Vivid affiliates will already be protected.
In addition, Hustler and Vivid are simply absorbing the additional fees they have to pay Acacia and will not pass on any of these fees in the form of lower payouts, etc. Therefore, the "attack" by Acacia will have no financial impact on Hustler and Vivid affiliates. That was their goal and it has been accomplished.
Having said that, the settlement by Hustler and Vivid by no means validates Acacia's patents. That can only be done in a court of law. Hustler and Vivid respect and support the decisions of the groups who have decided to fight Acacia. We hope they achieve their end goals, whatever they might be. We have achieved ours in our own way, which we ultimately believe will best serve our affiliates and business partners.
A few months ago, when other programs tried to lower payouts because of new Visa/MasterCard regulations, what did Hustler do? They raised payouts, which caused most of their competitors to back peddle and keep their payouts the same. That single decision on the part of Hustler, put hundreds of thousands of extra dollars back in the pockets of affiliates. Why? Because Hustler made the right business decision for them and for their affiliates, which caused their competitors to remain competitive. Who was the big winner from Hustler's decision to raise payouts? Affiliates were......many of which were not even our affiliates.
In these uncertain times, Hustler and Vivid are companies that affiliates can depend on over the long term. This industry is under attack from every angle and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Who do you think will survive and who will be able to make their affiliate payouts, regardless of what comes their way?
My money is on Hustler and Vivid....
Marc De
10-06-2003, 06:14 PM
Hey Ken, can you post your contract with Acacia so all your affiliates are aware what type of 'protection' is being offered by being a Hustler / Vivid affiliate? I'm sure there are some loopholes set by Acacia and you really should identify those. You wouldn't want an affiliate assuming they are covered from sending traffic to Hustler / Vivid and then still be sued by Acacia. That could get very costly for Hustler / Vivd themselves (law suits from your affiliate against you because you claimed indemnification and it was false because of loophole a, b, or c)
That is a good move on your part and assuming you have a good agreement I'll be one VERY happy camper ;)
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 05:22 PM
Hey Ken, can you post your contract with Acacia so all your affiliates are aware what type of 'protection' is being offered by being a Hustler / Vivid affiliate? I'm sure there are some loopholes set by Acacia and you really should identify those. You wouldn't want an affiliate assuming they are covered from sending traffic to Hustler / Vivid and then still be sued by Acacia. That could get very costly for Hustler / Vivd themselves (law suits from your affiliate against you because you claimed indemnification and it was false because of loophole a, b, or c)
That is a good move on your part and assuming you have a good agreement I'll be one VERY happy camper ;)
MarcDE,
I know you good for your money and therefore I offer you a friendly bet...
I bet you $1,000,000 US thta you'll never see those contracts posted on the boards....the parties will claim "confidentiality clauses".
Give me the number of your escrow agent and I'll wire up the funds if you accept the bet...
homegrownmof
10-06-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 05:22 PM
Hey Ken, can you post your contract with Acacia so all your affiliates are aware what type of 'protection' is being offered by being a Hustler / Vivid affiliate? I'm sure there are some loopholes set by Acacia and you really should identify those. You wouldn't want an affiliate assuming they are covered from sending traffic to Hustler / Vivid and then still be sued by Acacia. That could get very costly for Hustler / Vivd themselves (law suits from your affiliate against you because you claimed indemnification and it was false because of loophole a, b, or c)
That is a good move on your part and assuming you have a good agreement I'll be one VERY happy camper ;)
Good point Marc.
Seems like an "unfair business practice " for Acacia to allow Hustler and Vivid to be out there implying "Hey we settled now be an affiliate and you'll be safe too!"
Ken, I hope your attorneys looked closely at your new license. A lot closer than you did the original lawsuit.
You might find that Acacia put some "loopholes" in there that you hadn't bargained for.
I recall Ron was pretty surprised when Acacia started using CE's name in their press releases.
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 06:38 PM
Marc....GFYers put another mil to the bet
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.p...067#post2487067 (http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2487067#post2487067)
we goinna make your escrow agent rich!
;-)))
Marc De
10-06-2003, 06:41 PM
Serge - a mill is too rich fro my blood ;) Plus I don't like the odds hehe
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 05:49 PM
Serge - a mill is too rich fro my blood ;) Plus I don't like the odds hehe
c'mon!
I'll give you 7.25% loan!
;-)))
..but I can't dispute you on odds
;-))))
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 06:50 PM
Ken,
I have a problem with your post...
this is NOT GFY, and you know it!
You can NOT insult Oprano's intelligence,
this is a BIG no-no!
If you posted this shit on GFY and 12 Clicks gave his seal of approval,
I wouldn't say a word, but...
this is OPRANO for Larr...err..Christ sake!
spanno
10-06-2003, 06:51 PM
i bet you a million dollars you wouldn't pay up if he won
confucy
10-06-2003, 06:53 PM
I'm disappointed in all of you! You are allowing an aggressive piece of shit like Acacia to back you into a corner, and turn the screws.
What you should be doing is joining together and fighting Acacia to the end. Are we supposed to respect Hustler, Vivid, and CE for selling out? A good business decision????? Who says so! B)
Taking the easy and safe way out may be good for politicians and gutless wonders, but how can major porn companies do it with a straight face.
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by spanno@Oct 6 2003, 05:59 PM
i bet you a million dollars you wouldn't pay up if he won
spanno,
only insolvent person like you would make a bet like you did...what a pity...or was it intended to be pithy?
;-)))
Soul_Rebel
10-06-2003, 06:55 PM
MarcDe can give 50% from the bet to Ken and have him release a copy. I bet the consequences by doing it will cost him less than $500k :)
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Soul_Rebel@Oct 6 2003, 06:03 PM
MarcDe can give 50% from the bet to Ken and have him release a copy. I bet the consequences by doing it will cost him less than $500k :)
Soul,
I know Marc since Marc had milk on his lips, and Marc ALWAYS was HONARABLE man...
he wouldn't do it.
Plus...in order to release the contract, Ken would need a JOINT approval of LF and Vivid and you know how long those negotiations last....
;-)))
Soul_Rebel
10-06-2003, 07:00 PM
haha true. I proposed my greek way to increase the odds
Last edited by Soul_Rebel at Oct 6 2003, 03:08 PM
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Soul_Rebel@Oct 6 2003, 06:08 PM
haha true. I proposed my greek way to increase the odds
that's why I bet WASPs and not Greeks!
;-)))
Mike AI
10-06-2003, 07:09 PM
I have some major questions about this deal, and others with the big guys.
I am very troubled with the way things are going. I have been in touch with my attorneys. I hope to speak with Ken tommorow.
Until then, for once, I am going to keep my big mouth shut.
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 6 2003, 06:17 PM
I have some major questions about this deal, and others with the big guys.
I am very troubled with the way things are going. I have been in touch with my attorneys. I hope to speak with Ken tommorow.
Until then, for once, I am going to keep my big mouth shut.
Shona Tova!
Ken - with immense respect for your business acumen and obviously the names Hustler and Vivid speak volumes
a few questions
How much information can you share about the "protection" to affiliates?
Do you have a strategy for the future with regards to more copyright infringement litigation?
(Hopefully your legal team included in the agreement that under no circumstances at any time for any reason will Hustler and Vivid be libel for any licenses and or fees to Acacia or any of it subsidiaries)
What would stop another company from buying, say patents on Flash technology and then entering into copyright infringement litigation against Hustler and Vivid because you have Flash technology on sites?
I sincerely hope your legal team worked the best possible agreement and took into consideration that Acacia is buying more patents and this may be a viable business model which others may try in the very near future
Nickatilynx
10-06-2003, 07:50 PM
btw hasn't Brian Shuster of Xpics patented the pop up console?
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 6 2003, 06:58 PM
btw hasn't Brian Shuster of Xpics patented the pop up console?
Nick,
do you know the patents Gary Kremen has ?
few interesting ones are internet related and you know Gary's modus operandi
;-))
you ALL fucked!
;l-))
Nickatilynx
10-06-2003, 08:04 PM
No webmasters = no sponsors = no boards = More time for museums.
I'll be left mailing ONLY you with details of Sotheby's sales ;-))
We are all fucked ;-))
Last edited by Nickatilynx at Oct 6 2003, 04:13 PM
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 6 2003, 07:12 PM
No webmasters = no sponsors = no boards = More time for museums.
We are all fucked ;-))
Nick,
I'll do my best to have MORE TIME!
;-)))
I'll let Ken work, work, work, accumulate, accumulate, accumulate and...die at peak of his career and earning height from unforseen causes
;-))
Museums RULE!
;-)))
Winetalk.com
10-06-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 6 2003, 07:12 PM
I'll be left mailing ONLY you with details of Sotheby's sales ;-))
..and the time for Ken';s yearly prayer
;-))
We MUST remeber him every Yom Kippur!
;-)))
I still read these threads shaking my head ...
the whole concept of patenting something and not making any claims until the industry is too poor & disconnected to fight it - and the companies that are supporting this, what are you thinking?!!? Your own pockets might be protected for a few minutes but ... surely that's not the end of it?!?
Ken, did you REALLY just say that being an affiliate of hustler or vivid will protect webmasters from legal action?!?! All of my paysite exits will immediately be sent to hustler & vivid programs & I expect full protection!!! :P
Far-L
10-06-2003, 08:41 PM
MikeAI: Be sure to give us a shout as well. Call Spike at 949-716-8080.
For what it is worth... what did Hustler and Vivid spend to figure this out and with who?
Paul Cambria might be the shizznat when it comes to first amendment issues... but a patent attorney he most certainly is not.
Can we see the bills?
SykkBoy
10-06-2003, 09:05 PM
This is what bugs me about these ACACIA settlements, not the settlements themselves, it's that those who settle brag about how they are helping all of us.
Look, if I were in the position of an igallery, CE or vivid/hustler, I would probably settle too...hell, probably much cheaper to settle than fight. They're doing it to protect their business, but does ANYONE really think this was done for the betterment of the industry or out of the goodness of their hearts?
Goodness of their wallets yes, but better for the webmasters who send them traffic on a daily basis? nope.
Not that I have any traffic to send to either of these companies anyways....but I'm just troubled by these settlements....especially when they are presented as "in the best interests of the industry and our affiliates"
Oh well, I'm glad I'm basically out of the industry anyways except the new pill proggie and some other adult-related stuff that's not porn.....
Mike AI
10-06-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Oct 6 2003, 08:13 PM
This is what bugs me about these ACACIA settlements, not the settlements themselves, it's that those who settle brag about how they are helping all of us.
Look, if I were in the position of an igallery, CE or vivid/hustler, I would probably settle too...hell, probably much cheaper to settle than fight. They're doing it to protect their business, but does ANYONE really think this was done for the betterment of the industry or out of the goodness of their hearts?
Goodness of their wallets yes, but better for the webmasters who send them traffic on a daily basis? nope.
Not that I have any traffic to send to either of these companies anyways....but I'm just troubled by these settlements....especially when they are presented as "in the best interests of the industry and our affiliates"
Oh well, I'm glad I'm basically out of the industry anyways except the new pill proggie and some other adult-related stuff that's not porn.....
This whole post is a pearl!!
People should read it again!
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 02:22 PM
Hey Ken, can you post your contract with Acacia so all your affiliates are aware what type of 'protection' is being offered by being a Hustler / Vivid affiliate? I'm sure there are some loopholes set by Acacia and you really should identify those. You wouldn't want an affiliate assuming they are covered from sending traffic to Hustler / Vivid and then still be sued by Acacia. That could get very costly for Hustler / Vivd themselves (law suits from your affiliate against you because you claimed indemnification and it was false because of loophole a, b, or c)
That is a good move on your part and assuming you have a good agreement I'll be one VERY happy camper ;)
Marc,
As Serge pointed out and you know very well, we can't post our contract. However, you do bring up a good point and we would be happy to clarify.
Acacia has agreed to indemnify our affiliates ONLY for traffic they are sending to us. So they would not have a blanket indemnification. They would ONLY be indemnified for the portion of business they are sending to Hustler and Vivid. Basically, this protects them from possible "contributing to infringement". Will Acacia go after affiliates for "contributing"? Who knows. We just thought it would be nice to bundle that in our deal so our affiliates didn't have to deal with this issue should it ever arise.
In no way are we saying that affiliates who are not sending to Hustler and Vivid are going to have problems, nor do we want our settlement to scare anyone. It shouldn't. It was simply the right choice for Hustler and Vivid. It might not be the right choice for everyone.
homegrownmof
10-06-2003, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Ken+Oct 6 2003, 08:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Oct 6 2003, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 02:22 PM
Hey Ken, can you post your contract with Acacia so all your affiliates are aware what type of 'protection' is being offered by being a Hustler / Vivid affiliate? I'm sure there are some loopholes set by Acacia and you really should identify those. You wouldn't want an affiliate assuming they are covered from sending traffic to Hustler / Vivid and then still be sued by Acacia. That could get very costly for Hustler / Vivd themselves (law suits from your affiliate against you because you claimed indemnification and it was false because of loophole a, b, or c)
That is a good move on your part and assuming you have a good agreement I'll be one VERY happy camper ;)
Marc,
As Serge pointed out and you know very well, we can't post our contract. However, you do bring up a good point and we would be happy to clarify.
Acacia has agreed to indemnify our affiliates ONLY for traffic they are sending to us. So they would not have a blanket indemnification. They would ONLY be indemnified for the portion of business they are sending to Hustler and Vivid. Basically, this protects them from possible "contributing to infringement". Will Acacia go after affiliates for "contributing"? Who knows. We just thought it would be nice to bundle that in our deal so our affiliates didn't have to deal with this issue should it ever arise.
In no way are we saying that affiliates who are not sending to Hustler and Vivid are going to have problems, nor do we want our settlement to scare anyone. It shouldn't. It was simply the right choice for Hustler and Vivid. It might not be the right choice for everyone.
[/b][/quote]
Ken,
If Acacia said from day1 that they weren't going to "double dip" on license fees (i.e. tag the sponsor program and the affiliate member of that program) how is it "nice to bundle that in our deal so our affiliates didn't have to deal with this issue should it ever arise"?
Originally posted by Mike AI+Oct 6 2003, 05:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Oct 6 2003, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Oct 6 2003, 08:13 PM
This is what bugs me about these ACACIA settlements, not the settlements themselves, it's that those who settle brag about how they are helping all of us.
Look, if I were in the position of an igallery, CE or vivid/hustler, I would probably settle too...hell, probably much cheaper to settle than fight. They're doing it to protect their business, but does ANYONE really think this was done for the betterment of the industry or out of the goodness of their hearts?
Goodness of their wallets yes, but better for the webmasters who send them traffic on a daily basis? nope.
Not that I have any traffic to send to either of these companies anyways....but I'm just troubled by these settlements....especially when they are presented as "in the best interests of the industry and our affiliates"
Oh well, I'm glad I'm basically out of the industry anyways except the new pill proggie and some other adult-related stuff that's not porn.....
This whole post is a pearl!!
People should read it again![/b][/quote]
MikeAI,
I disagree. Sykkboy said several things that are simply not true.
1. We never claimed that our settling would help the industry as a whole. I honestly doubt it won't effect it one way or the other. There are much larger threats to the industry than Acacia.
2. We never claimed this was done out of the goodness of our hearts
3. We did say over and over that this was the best choice for Hustler and Vivid, which is true. Part of running a successful business is making sound business decisions. They made the decision that they thought was best for their respective businesses.
4. It remains to be seen whether it will be better for our webmasters, but it certainly is not worse. They can rest assured that they will not be financially harmed by this issue with regard to the business they do with us. Hustler and Vivid have simply ensured that they will be able to continue paying webmasters a heafty comission now and into future.
I understand his point.....but in this case, if you look at the statements made, nothing he said is all that accurate.
gonzo
10-06-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Far-L@Oct 6 2003, 04:49 PM
MikeAI: Be sure to give us a shout as well. Call Spike at 949-716-8080.
For what it is worth... what did Hustler and Vivid spend to figure this out and with who?
Paul Cambria might be the shizznat when it comes to first amendment issues... but a patent attorney he most certainly is not.
Can we see the bills?
Excuse me sir...I speak jive allow me to "whiten" up that release...
Yo Yo ...can you hear me player?
We likes you sending dat traffic o' yurs ta our programms...soswes taken some o' dat mon-ay u hep us'ns urn n gives it ups to da playas at Acadia.
Iz dun it fer ur on gud. Weez jest tryn to hep at Hustler 'n Vivid...[dont fergit Cashquest too!] Sos eye dint thinks u'd mine if'n sum o'dat mon-ay gut spent covern' hour asses...jess in case this soot mite takes long.
Continues to sends ur traffics to us. In da near futa weez spends it on uther thangs 4 ur on gud.
UR Fiends
@ Hustler 'n Vivid [don't fer git Cashquest too!]
homegrownmof
10-06-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by cj@Oct 6 2003, 07:28 PM
I still read these threads shaking my head ...
the whole concept of patenting something and not making any claims until the industry is too poor & disconnected to fight it - and the companies that are supporting this, what are you thinking?!!? Your own pockets might be protected for a few minutes but ... surely that's not the end of it?!?
Ken, did you REALLY just say that being an affiliate of hustler or vivid will protect webmasters from legal action?!?! All of my paysite exits will immediately be sent to hustler & vivid programs & I expect full protection!!! :P
CJ,
Just be sure to remember that you will be protected for only the biz you do with Hustler/Vivid.
The video content in your actual paysites would be subject to Acacia's license demands.
Also, good point re: the next wave of patent claims- rumors of Wlaters, Piccionelli, FM, Shuster, Gary Kremen all possibly doing similar things
Mike AI
10-06-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Ken+Oct 6 2003, 08:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Oct 6 2003, 08:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Mike AI@Oct 6 2003, 05:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Oct 6 2003, 08:13 PM
This is what bugs me about these ACACIA settlements, not the settlements themselves, it's that those who settle brag about how they are helping all of us.
Look, if I were in the position of an igallery, CE or vivid/hustler, I would probably settle too...hell, probably much cheaper to settle than fight. They're doing it to protect their business, but does ANYONE really think this was done for the betterment of the industry or out of the goodness of their hearts?
Goodness of their wallets yes, but better for the webmasters who send them traffic on a daily basis? nope.
Not that I have any traffic to send to either of these companies anyways....but I'm just troubled by these settlements....especially when they are presented as "in the best interests of the industry and our affiliates"
Oh well, I'm glad I'm basically out of the industry anyways except the new pill proggie and some other adult-related stuff that's not porn.....
This whole post is a pearl!!
People should read it again!
MikeAI,
I disagree. Sykkboy said several things that are simply not true.
1. We never claimed that our settling would help the industry as a whole. I honestly doubt it won't effect it one way or the other. There are much larger threats to the industry than Acacia.
2. We never claimed this was done out of the goodness of our hearts
3. We did say over and over that this was the best choice for Hustler and Vivid, which is true. Part of running a successful business is making sound business decisions. They made the decision that they thought was best for their respective businesses.
4. It remains to be seen whether it will be better for our webmasters, but it certainly is not worse. They can rest assured that they will not be financially harmed by this issue with regard to the business they do with us. Hustler and Vivid have simply ensured that they will be able to continue paying webmasters a heafty comission now and into future.
I understand his point.....but in this case, if you look at the statements made, nothing he said is all that accurate.[/b][/quote]
Ken, I had a 20 paragraph response and break down of you posts. I thought twice about posting it. I would like to talk to you tomorow on the phone. ( I did cut and paste the post and sent it to myself in e-mail :D )
And some people say old dogs can't learn new tricks....
Originally posted by homegrownmof@Oct 6 2003, 05:56 PM
Ken,
If Acacia said from day1 that they weren't going to "double dip" on license fees (i.e. tag the sponsor program and the affiliate member of that program) how is it "nice to bundle that in our deal so our affiliates didn't have to deal with this issue should it ever arise"?
HomeGrownMof,
I'm not sure what Acacia said they would and wouldn't do verbally. But I do know that this clause was not in our original agreement and it took quite a bit of back and fourth to have it inserted in a way that our attorneys were comfortable with.
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 6 2003, 02:58 PM
Ken,
I have a problem with your post...
this is NOT GFY, and you know it!
You can NOT insult Oprano's intelligence,
this is a BIG no-no!
If you posted this shit on GFY and 12 Clicks gave his seal of approval,
I wouldn't say a word, but...
this is OPRANO for Larr...err..Christ sake!
Serge,
Let's see....1/3rd of the posts on this thread are from you....most of them about nothing relevant.
You're right, this is NOT GFY! It's painfully obvious ;)
Far-L
10-06-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Ken@Oct 6 2003, 05:58 PM
I disagree. Sykkboy said several things that are simply not true.
1. We never claimed that our settling would help the industry as a whole. I honestly doubt it won't effect it one way or the other. There are much larger threats to the industry than Acacia.
2. We never claimed this was done out of the goodness of our hearts
3. We did say over and over that this was the best choice for Hustler and Vivid, which is true. Part of running a successful business is making sound business decisions. They made the decision that they thought was best for their respective businesses.
4. It remains to be seen whether it will be better for our webmasters, but it certainly is not worse. They can rest assured that they will not be financially harmed by this issue with regard to the business they do with us. Hustler and Vivid have simply ensured that they will be able to continue paying webmasters a heafty comission now and into future.
I understand his point.....but in this case, if you look at the statements made, nothing he said is all that accurate.
Ken... kindly allow me to retort...
1. That is not correct. I was told that if Hustler/Vivid/Wicked settled that it would be to the benefit of all.
2. Your press release regarding the favor you did your affiliates and the money you spent to do it suggests otherwise.
3. Sound choices and successful business? That must be what finally led Hustler and Vivid to pay you to run their internet show rather than keep doing it themselves... (I have been around long enough to remember Tony Tang and what do you think Vivid paid on that auction site launch?)
4. I am glad you are ok with it. Can I please send all the other patent carpetbaggers to your door?
You know, I really don't remember you ever being part of the discussions about what to do at all before so it is nice to see you so involved now.
Sykkboy expressed an opinion and for you to say that is false is inappropriate, imo. Especially in light of what I know and the questions that I raise.
homegrownmof
10-06-2003, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 6 2003, 07:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 6 2003, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Nickatilynx@Oct 6 2003, 06:58 PM
btw hasn't Brian Shuster of Xpics patented the pop up console?
Nick,
do you know the patents Gary Kremen has ?
few interesting ones are internet related and you know Gary's modus operandi
;-))
you ALL fucked!
;l-))[/b][/quote]
I think Serge actually did make 1 salient comment- see above.
This is a new business model for some people- patent licensing. And not just newbies like Berman. Seasoned web vets.
Will Hustler /Vivid just keep brushing off the last "We're settling!" press release ?
Ken you are one of the brightest around- when are you going to take the reins from Cambria.
For what it's worth :o
ex·tort ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-stôrt)
tr.v. ex·tort·ed, ex·tort·ing, ex·torts
To obtain from another by coercion or intimidation.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=extort
again please bear in mind that Acacia could just be the beginning and companies could find themselves facing these situations repeatedly
Far-L
10-06-2003, 11:12 PM
"We are going to be at $200 million a year without writing a single line of code"
Who said this?
1. An inventor
2. A Gangster
3. An Attorney named Rob Berman, Acacia
Originally posted by Far-L+Oct 6 2003, 06:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Far-L @ Oct 6 2003, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Ken@Oct 6 2003, 05:58 PM
I disagree. Sykkboy said several things that are simply not true.
1. We never claimed that our settling would help the industry as a whole. I honestly doubt it won't effect it one way or the other. There are much larger threats to the industry than Acacia.
2. We never claimed this was done out of the goodness of our hearts
3. We did say over and over that this was the best choice for Hustler and Vivid, which is true. Part of running a successful business is making sound business decisions. They made the decision that they thought was best for their respective businesses.
4. It remains to be seen whether it will be better for our webmasters, but it certainly is not worse. They can rest assured that they will not be financially harmed by this issue with regard to the business they do with us. Hustler and Vivid have simply ensured that they will be able to continue paying webmasters a heafty comission now and into future.
I understand his point.....but in this case, if you look at the statements made, nothing he said is all that accurate.
Ken... kindly allow me to retort...
1. That is not correct. I was told that if Hustler/Vivid/Wicked settled that it would be to the benefit of all.
2. Your press release regarding the favor you did your affiliates and the money you spent to do it suggests otherwise.
3. Sound choices and successful business? That must be what finally led Hustler and Vivid to pay you to run their internet show rather than keep doing it themselves... (I have been around long enough to remember Tony Tang and what do you think Vivid paid on that auction site launch?)
4. I am glad you are ok with it. Can I please send all the other patent carpetbaggers to your door?
You know, I really don't remember you ever being part of the discussions about what to do at all before so it is nice to see you so involved now.
Sykkboy expressed an opinion and for you to say that is false is inappropriate, imo. Especially in light of what I know and the questions that I raise.[/b][/quote]
Far-L,
1. I believe Sykk Boy was commenting on my posts, not on what you were told. I was responding ONLY about my posts and what I stated. If you were told something other than that by someone else, I can not respond to that.
2. I stated facts in the press release. We believe we acted in favor of our affiliates over the long term.
3. Actually, you are exactly correct. It just goes to show you that they are more concerned with doing what is best for their business, rather than feeding their own egos. Lesser companies would have kept trying to do things themselves, instead of focusing on their core businesses. Given that we are talking about Steve H and Larry Flynt, it's amazing that you're even questioning their long term ability to make good decisions for their companies. When you have accomplished half as much maybe someone will take you seriously.
4. It doesn't matter if I'm ok with it or not on a personal level. This is business. I try and check my ego at the door. It helps keep priorities in order. I know you are upset, but there is no reason to make it personal. It's just business.
BTW - Do you still make money from your HomeGrown partnership with Cyberotica? Just curious?
Originally posted by homegrownmof@Oct 6 2003, 06:47 PM
I think Serge actually did make 1 salient comment- see above.
This is a new business model for some people- patent licensing. And not just newbies like Berman. Seasoned web vets.
Will Hustler /Vivid just keep brushing off the last "We're settling!" press release ?
Ken you are one of the brightest around- when are you going to take the reins from Cambria.
homegrownmof,
Don't ever give Serge credit for anything. He'll remember it and use it against you whenever he has a chance ;)
Thanks for the good words, but I'm certainly no attorney. I understand and appreciate the arguement "what about the next company that comes knocking".
I can tell you that Hustler and Vivid do not make a policy of settling lawsuits. If other companies think that this means they are easy targets, they are sadly mistaken. Any future lawsuits will be dealt with on a case by case basis on their own merits.
You know that Hustler was sued a long time ago. They did not just settle quickly. That might be the perception, but that is not what happened.
Far-L
10-06-2003, 11:24 PM
Actually, since I have made money with and for Steve H and Larry H whether or not you take me seriously or not matters very little.
Regarding CE, yes we work with them, but their settlement does not seem to cover us now does it?
This is not about ego, and this is not emotional. This is business. I think our debate on the subject presents a healthy discourse and that is good for business too.
We are both entitled our opinions and the manner in which we choose to run our respective businesses.
Far-L
10-06-2003, 11:27 PM
Time for me to bow out..
Last edited by Far-L at Oct 6 2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Far-L@Oct 6 2003, 07:32 PM
Actually, since I have made money with and for Steve H and Larry H whether or not you take me seriously or not matters very little.
Regarding CE, yes we work with them, but their settlement does not seem to cover us now does it?
This is not about ego, and this is not emotional. This is business. I think our debate on the subject presents a healthy discourse and that is good for business too.
We are both entitled our opinions and the manner in which we choose to run our respective businesses.
I agree that a healthy debate is a good thing. But offering to send all of the "carpetbaggers" to my door was personal. You act as if I simply advised all of my client to settle and it was so.
I find it a little hypocritical that you chose to question Steve and Larry's decision making ability because they chose to use our services when your own site runs through someone elses affiliate program. I find it even more hypocritical that you think we "ran from the battle field", but you are still partners with another company who settled. Maybe your site is not protected, but it certainly benefits from all the traffic that goes through the CE program, doesn't it?
If you are that committed to this cause, why not terminate your partnership with CE since they settled? Just curious as to why you've had a lot more to say about Hustler and Vivid than you did about CE?
Marc De
10-06-2003, 11:58 PM
Ken - thanks for clarifying that statement.
Just so everyone is clear, you can NOT double dip in patent lawsuits. You can't collect damages from infridgers and conducer(s). You may only collect ONE set of damages (from any of the parties), you don't get paid more than once for reasonable fees. Therefore, there should have been virtually NO negotiations on your part to get Acacia to indemnify YOUR affiliates for the traffic they send to Vivid / Hustler since you are now in compliance with their patent (in the form of a license). If there is no patent infridgement (since you have a license) then obviously there is no conducing of infridgement. This really isn't big news. If I signed a settlement all my webmasters would be protected as well since there would no patent infridgement since I am now a licensed party.
Whenever a bully arises someone must confront them and beat them down. ARS is committed to invalidating this patent. Some can argue the best business decision is to settle (it could obviously be cheaper) but I choose not to let this be a precedent for anyone else to beckon my door or this industries door again.
Far-L
10-06-2003, 11:58 PM
Ken: I don't mean any offense and I think you are taking it much too personally.
You are not a hypocrite in the least, nor am I.
You had little to nothing to do with Hustler and Vivid settling. I don't blame you or challenge your business decision in the matter. What I took issue with I was very specific regarding here and at GFY.
I think Steve and Larry made good decisions to go with you. They had mixed success running internet operations previously and so that represented smart business on their part. I don't deny them or you your geniuses and talents in business and I applaud your successes.
I don't have a problem with you settling. I just have a problem with the way you spun it in your announcement.
I am not at liberty to discuss my arrangements with CE. Perhaps you would like to ask Ron directly about what he thinks of us, how much traffic CE is sending, how things are going these days and what is in store for the future.
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 08:06 PM
Ken - thanks for clarifying that statement.
Just so everyone is clear, you can NOT double dip in patent lawsuits. You can't collect damages from infridgers and conducer(s). You may only collect ONE set of damages (from any of the parties), you don't get paid more than once for reasonable fees. Therefore, there should have been virtually NO negotiations on your part to get Acacia to indemnify YOUR affiliates for the traffic they send to Vivid / Hustler since you are now in compliance with their patent (in the form of a license). If there is no patent infridgement (since you have a license) then obviously there is no conducing of infridgement. This really isn't big news. If I signed a settlement all my webmasters would be protected as well since there would no patent infridgement since I am now a licensed party.
Whenever a bully arises someone must confront them and beat them down. ARS is committed to invalidating this patent. Some can argue the best business decision is to settle (it could obviously be cheaper) but I choose not to let this be a precedent for anyone else to beckon my door or this industries door again.
Marc,
While what you said makes perfect sense, I don't think that is always 100% true. I'm going to get clarification on this issue because I know it was not in the original agreement. I personally asked for it to be added and there was a lot of back and fourth about it. I'm not an attorney, so you very well could be right.
Either way, it's really a non-issue I suppose. Our intention was not and is not to "scare" affiliates into using our programs. Hopefully they will use them for other reasons!
Originally posted by Far-L@Oct 6 2003, 08:06 PM
Ken: I don't mean any offense and I think you are taking it much too personally.
You are not a hypocrite in the least, nor am I.
You had little to nothing to do with Hustler and Vivid settling. I don't blame you or challenge your business decision in the matter. What I took issue with I was very specific regarding here and at GFY.
I think Steve and Larry made good decisions to go with you. They had mixed success running internet operations previously and so that represented smart business on their part. I don't deny them or you your geniuses and talents in business and I applaud your successes.
I don't have a problem with you settling. I just have a problem with the way you spun it in your announcement.
I am not at liberty to discuss my arrangements with CE. Perhaps you would like to ask Ron directly about what he thinks of us, how much traffic CE is sending, how things are going these days and what is in store for the future.
Fair enough.....no offense taken. I think we've both made our points.
I absolutely wish you guys the best in your effots and would like to chat sometime soon about us financially participating in your future efforts through the IMPA.
Marc De
10-07-2003, 12:24 AM
Ken - I'm no lawyer either but I think its a hard case to file against affiliates of a program that are in compliance with a license attempting to prove they are conducing the infridgement of a patent that not being infridged upon. What a mouthful.
*thinking out loud* It might be a good idea for me to sponsor a 1 hour radio show, question and answer with my IP lawyer. It would be nice for all these webmasters currently without counsel to hear some 'opinions' from a qualified lawyer. Education can only help the industry... Something I know 'someone' is afraid of. Fortunately we're not a bunch of uneducated, weak willed, wanna-be-businessmen as 'someone' may have initially thought :D
Mike AI
10-07-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 11:32 PM
Ken - I'm no lawyer either but I think its a hard case to file against affiliates of a program that are in compliance with a license attempting to prove they are conducing the infridgement of a patent that not being infridged upon. What a mouthful.
*thinking out loud* It might be a good idea for me to sponsor a 1 hour radio show, question and answer with my IP lawyer. It would be nice for all these webmasters currently without counsel to hear some 'opinions' from a qualified lawyer. Education can only help the industry... Something I know 'someone' is afraid of. Fortunately we're not a bunch of uneducated, weak willed, wanna-be-businessmen as 'someone' may have initially thought :D
Marc, lets talk tommorow - I think we should be able to help you arrange this.
Far-L... I think you definitely are a hypocrite on this issue... I called you on your silence over R-n settling.. and you were just fine with it!
In fact You and a tide of other people wanted to shout me down when I said R-n had shafted you and now everyone else would be forced into the position of having to settle... Why didn't you complain about CE settling like you are about Ken?? Money involved for you was it?? Business decision to shut up that time maybe?
I am sure your initial intentions were good and i applauded you at the start.. but you corrupted your entire effort imho when you wimped out on calling R-n out for the backstabbing scumbag he was.
Why didn't you attack the real person who ruined your chances of putting up a proper bi-partisan industry fight? R-n Shafted your fighting fund when it mattered... YOU didnt want to bitch about that then for your own reasons....... it looks like these guys made a smart business decision that had to be made to me...
The companies with something to protect will all be forced to settle now imho.... I predict many of us wont be sending traffic to those that dont settle by the end of this year.. will be too dangerous.. why would I want to risk being taken out for sending traffic to ARS once Acacia is finished this round and starts attacking all the non-compliant program's traffic sources?
Sorry Marc.. but unless you know something special I can't see you being able to stick to this line of "fight till the death" for long.
Acacia simply divided and conquered... it's over... move on and make sure we dont let it happen next time... I cant wait until R-n starts attempting his version of "VoiceAcacia" .. will you have a fighting fund against that one too Far-L?
Marc De
10-07-2003, 12:44 AM
Opti - again, Acacia can sue everyone they want but IF (that is one big if) they win, they'll only get ONE settlement, not multiple. You can assume what you like... Affiliates should not be scared to do business with anyone, including companies that have not settled.
Far-L's defense fund took a hit when Ron settled? How is that? I also fail to see how Acacia divided and conquered? CE / Hustler / Vivid do NOT make up a huge portion of this industry... The signing of those 3 companies truthfully doesn't mean much of anything to me or my will to invalidate this patent or defend myself. The good news is I know I'm not alone.
Nickatilynx
10-07-2003, 12:50 AM
Damn!!!
All I can say , is I now understand how/why Marc De has reached the position he has in this biz.
I am very very impressed. :)
:inlove:
SykkBoy
10-07-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by Ken+Oct 6 2003, 08:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Oct 6 2003, 08:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Mike AI@Oct 6 2003, 05:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--SykkBoy@Oct 6 2003, 08:13 PM
This is what bugs me about these ACACIA settlements, not the settlements themselves, it's that those who settle brag about how they are helping all of us.
Look, if I were in the position of an igallery, CE or vivid/hustler, I would probably settle too...hell, probably much cheaper to settle than fight. They're doing it to protect their business, but does ANYONE really think this was done for the betterment of the industry or out of the goodness of their hearts?
Goodness of their wallets yes, but better for the webmasters who send them traffic on a daily basis? nope.
Not that I have any traffic to send to either of these companies anyways....but I'm just troubled by these settlements....especially when they are presented as "in the best interests of the industry and our affiliates"
Oh well, I'm glad I'm basically out of the industry anyways except the new pill proggie and some other adult-related stuff that's not porn.....
This whole post is a pearl!!
People should read it again!
MikeAI,
I disagree. Sykkboy said several things that are simply not true.
1. We never claimed that our settling would help the industry as a whole. I honestly doubt it won't effect it one way or the other. There are much larger threats to the industry than Acacia.
2. We never claimed this was done out of the goodness of our hearts
3. We did say over and over that this was the best choice for Hustler and Vivid, which is true. Part of running a successful business is making sound business decisions. They made the decision that they thought was best for their respective businesses.
4. It remains to be seen whether it will be better for our webmasters, but it certainly is not worse. They can rest assured that they will not be financially harmed by this issue with regard to the business they do with us. Hustler and Vivid have simply ensured that they will be able to continue paying webmasters a heafty comission now and into future.
I understand his point.....but in this case, if you look at the statements made, nothing he said is all that accurate.[/b][/quote]
Ken, I didn't mean any personal opffense and my post was simply my feelings on the subject.
You know that I respect you more than just about anyone else in this business. The underlying theme to your post and from what I've seen posted from CE was "well, we settled with them but here's what we did for you".
While I understand why Steve and Larry did what was in their best interests and in their spot, I would have done the same thing, I simply see the section I interpret as "look at what we're doing for our affiliates", when this was based on a business decision and not a "we love our affiliates, look at what we've done decision".
I simply felt we were being "spun". Who wouldn't agree to pay $1500 or whatever small fee to ACACIA over spenidng hundreds of thiousands on a drawn out legal battle? I sure as fuck would, but I wouldn't spin it as if I were doing it for my affiliates. That was my point.
This post wasn't all 100% at you either, it was an amalgam of frustration over what's happening in this industry.
You have to udnerstand, every day we seem to be told how much companies are doing for this industry and how they do it out of the goodness of their heart. Just tell it straight, it's a business decision, it'll make Company X this much more money. Just be honest, don't spin us, we've seen it all before.
Again, that's not directed at you personally, just everyone in general who makes a business decision and acts like they are being some sort of savior.
Sorry for not replying sooner, it's my wedding anniversary, so went out for awhile.
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Oct 6 2003, 08:59 PM
Ken, I didn't mean any personal opffense and my post was simply my feelings on the subject.
You know that I respect you more than just about anyone else in this business. The underlying theme to your post and from what I've seen posted from CE was "well, we settled with them but here's what we did for you".
While I understand why Steve and Larry did what was in their best interests and in their spot, I would have done the same thing, I simply see the section I interpret as "look at what we're doing for our affiliates", when this was based on a business decision and not a "we love our affiliates, look at what we've done decision".
I simply felt we were being "spun". Who wouldn't agree to pay $1500 or whatever small fee to ACACIA over spenidng hundreds of thiousands on a drawn out legal battle? I sure as fuck would, but I wouldn't spin it as if I were doing it for my affiliates. That was my point.
This post wasn't all 100% at you either, it was an amalgam of frustration over what's happening in this industry.
You have to udnerstand, every day we seem to be told how much companies are doing for this industry and how they do it out of the goodness of their heart. Just tell it straight, it's a business decision, it'll make Company X this much more money. Just be honest, don't spin us, we've seen it all before.
Again, that's not directed at you personally, just everyone in general who makes a business decision and acts like they are being some sort of savior.
Sorry for not replying sooner, it's my wedding anniversary, so went out for awhile.
SykkBoy,
Thanks man....I knew it wasn't personal. I understand your frustration and feelings on the subject.
Most businesses do make decisions based on what is best for their them and that is what Hustler and Vivid did. However, those decisions, in my opinion will have a positive impact on their affiliates over the long term.
Look at it this way. If they made a bad decision and were financially impacted by it, they might need to pass on the financial impact to affiliates in the form of lower payouts. By settling, they have taken the risk factor away from their affiliates in terms of their potential liability and in terms of possibly having to lower payouts, etc.
Affiliates are a very important part of their business, therefore it IS in theirr best interest to protect them and look after their best interests. Did they make the decision to settle just to help their affiliates? Or course not. But I do think they will benefit from this in the long run.
Now get back to your wife and Happy Anniversary! ;)
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 7 2003, 02:52 PM
Opti - again, Acacia can sue everyone they want but IF (that is one big if) they win, they'll only get ONE settlement, not multiple. You can assume what you like... Affiliates should not be scared to do business with anyone, including companies that have not settled.
Far-L's defense fund took a hit when Ron settled? How is that? I also fail to see how Acacia divided and conquered? CE / Hustler / Vivid do NOT make up a huge portion of this industry... The signing of those 3 companies truthfully doesn't mean much of anything to me or my will to invalidate this patent or defend myself. The good news is I know I'm not alone.
It's all IFs.. ie: IF Acacia send me a notice threatening me if I send traffic to ARS what will I do... You or Far-L and every lawyer in the land can tell me they wont win... but will I still be sending traffic to ARS or maybe switching to CE or Hustler? That's the reality of the what will happen.
IFs are what is causing our downfall.. Acacia play the game of IFs far better than our industry has so far..
We are here to make money... lets cut a deal... make money and let the likes of the recording industry fight this if they want... I'm not here to save the world.. just make some cash. imho adult failed to stand together and has already lost this fight. Add it to your list of bottom line costs.. pass it on and lets go forward! Our industry has the first opportunity to cut a deal with Acacia... even if they dont get our market segment they will go for another one... and then we wont be in bargaining position any longer.
As far as those companies proving to be enough of a foot in the door to break the industry resolve.. Maybe I underestimate the ulturism of our industry "leaders".. but once Acacia start scaring the traffic away we will find out for sure.
Persoanlly, I think CE was a major turning point no matter how much $$ they turn over compared to other majors. They shifted opinion and made sure most webmasters wont trust ANY company on this issue..
btw Marc.. you get my highest respect for standing by what you believe in.. but dont get left holding the baton alone :\
Marc De
10-07-2003, 02:16 AM
Opti - I appreciate your take on this. I can say IF Acacia threatened affiliates sending traffic to 'certain' programs including ARS with a law suit you can bet they would be served as well. I have no problem fighting fire with fire :)
There still is a great group of companies besides ARS who are not standing down on this. I'm not alone and I doubt ever will be!
Marc De
10-07-2003, 02:20 AM
I also reflect back to my comment on education. There is a lot of educating that needs to take place so smaller affiliates aren't 'scared' of Acacia. The more educated we are the better decisions we'll make.
Paul Markham
10-07-2003, 02:23 AM
This is cut and dried a business decision.
What they want to do is safeguard themselves and not spend money fighting the cause. While they hope others who are fighting the cause and paying for it win, so they will no longer have to pay for the licenses.
Seems very clear.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that Acacia was counting on this to go exactly as it is right now and that they are stronger for each "licensing agreement" they sign.... and settling with them while may be in the interests of the companies that do so, its definately not in the interest of anyone else in this business. in fact, trying to spin it as a positive thing is both insulting and offensive and is a little like making and selling ammunition to the army that is attacking you and saying "we just sell lead and gun powder while creating jobs and growing the economy, nothing more"
Lets not forget the possible negative costs industry wide of these "settlements" and how they come at the expense of everyone who has an interest in fighting and who knows who else.
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by Ken@Oct 6 2003, 08:47 PM
Marc,
As Serge pointed out and you know very well, we can't post our contract.
why?
I have no problems posting ALL the contracts I EVER made in this life,
business and personal, including all real estate transactions, divorce decrees, traffic brokering, my cemetery plot terms, etc, etc, etc....
I am a shaver and a goat fucker, of course, but I don't mind even posting my contract with a Devil!
and to pre-empty your argument about:
"you are piece of shit with no $$$ to compare with LF and Vivid",
I can bet YOU the same million I bet Marc that the value of all my contracts I made over the life time is bigger than the $$ value of the contract between Acacia and the interests you represent....
Here is your chance to grab a mil without writing one single line of code
;-))))))
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 7 2003, 02:00 AM
Here is your chance to grab a mil without writing one single line of code
;-))))))
People should be required to write a line of code before they make $200 million/year.
Originally posted by Ken@Oct 6 2003, 12:30 PM
Who do you think will survive and who will be able to make their affiliate payouts, regardless of what comes their way?
My bet is on the europeans and russians - they have shown excellent survival skills thru history, and they are not threaten by all of these US lawsuites.
Acacia´s "posterboy campaign" continues, and I was a bit disappointed to see yet more big names beg for mercy from Acacia... Just go to show you that most who "get big" did not take a journey "full of glory" and "kicking ass", which can be made into a Hollywood movie, but rather a journey which was "full of compromises" and "kissing ass".
Uncompromising people are rare, and I admire them, since they are the ones who will truly "be there" regardless of what comes their way...
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by Rolo+Oct 7 2003, 02:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Oct 7 2003, 02:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Ken@Oct 6 2003, 12:30 PM
Who do you think will survive and who will be able to make their affiliate payouts, regardless of what comes their way?
My bet is on the europeans and russians - they have shown excellent survival skills thru history, and they are not threaten by all of these US lawsuites.
Acacia´s "posterboy campaign" continues, and I was a bit disappointed to see yet more big names beg for mercy from Acacia... Just go to show you that most who "get big" did not take a journey "full of glory" and "kicking ass", which can be made into a Hollywood movie, but rather a journey which was "full of compromises" and "kissing ass".
Uncompromising people are rare, and I admire them, since they are the ones who will truly "be there" regardless of what comes their way...[/b][/quote]
Funny you say that...
Larry Flynt made it all the way to Hollywood being "uncompromised"....
but...
I guess money and compromises come and go and are subject of age
;-)))
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by KC+Oct 7 2003, 02:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Oct 7 2003, 02:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Oct 7 2003, 02:00 AM
Here is your chance to grab a mil without writing one single line of code
;-))))))
People should be required to write a line of code before they make $200 million/year.[/b][/quote]
why do you say that?
I don't follow the drift, it's early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee yet
;-)
kmanrox
10-07-2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 6 2003, 02:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 6 2003, 02:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 05:22 PM
Hey Ken, can you post your contract with Acacia so all your affiliates are aware what type of 'protection' is being offered by being a Hustler / Vivid affiliate? I'm sure there are some loopholes set by Acacia and you really should identify those. You wouldn't want an affiliate assuming they are covered from sending traffic to Hustler / Vivid and then still be sued by Acacia. That could get very costly for Hustler / Vivd themselves (law suits from your affiliate against you because you claimed indemnification and it was false because of loophole a, b, or c)
That is a good move on your part and assuming you have a good agreement I'll be one VERY happy camper ;)
MarcDE,
I know you good for your money and therefore I offer you a friendly bet...
I bet you $1,000,000 US thta you'll never see those contracts posted on the boards....the parties will claim "confidentiality clauses".
Give me the number of your escrow agent and I'll wire up the funds if you accept the bet...[/b][/quote]
there's escrow companies that facilitate illegal betting? =)
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by kmanrox@Oct 7 2003, 03:00 AM
there's escrow companies that facilitate illegal betting? =)
this is NOT an Illegal Betting,
this is just a FRIENDLY BET!
;-)))
Paul Markham
10-07-2003, 06:31 AM
It's no wonder that the EEC Parliment is thinking long and hard about Software Patents. What will Acacia do to companies working in Europe, will the "licensed" companies insist only those with the license can sell videos?
And as for the argument of settling and moving on until someone else brings this down for us. That is what those who have signed up are hoping. They do not want to spend the money fighting, they want someone else to do and pay for it, then they can carry on as before having paid out nothing. What would be their reaction if they knew that they could not sell videos IF Acacia lost. Nice when you can play both sides with immunity.
I think this has been a test of integrity and some have come out badly.
If you think these patents are solid, then come out and tell us what reasearch was done to reach that decision and the results. There is some confusion over whether the lawyers know if "Double Dipping" is allowed in patent cases. Maybe it's not and therefore is not required to be in a license, or can be put in very easily. Or "Double"Dipping" is legal and a concession was gained.
Or was this just a commercial decision, which was carried out by the Accountants and not the legal department. They would look simply at bottom line and little else.
It will cost xzy to fight
It will cost xyz to settle
Can we still sell videos if Acacia lose?
Can we sell videos if they win?
Morals, ethics and reputation do not show up on a balance sheet.
Nickatilynx
10-07-2003, 06:37 AM
Morals, ethics and reputation do not show up on a balance sheet.
pearl!! :)
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 7 2003, 05:45 AM
Morals, ethics and reputation do not show up on a balance sheet.
pearl!! :)
d i t t o!
Nickatilynx
10-07-2003, 06:41 AM
And for me , a new mantra :)
Morning Serge :)
I sleep little , do you sleep at all? ;)
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 7 2003, 05:49 AM
And for me , a new mantra :)
Morning Serge :)
I sleep little , do you sleep at all? ;)
I sleep alot!
I sleep with my wife, her girlfriend, my friend, her friend and few hitchhikers....
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 06:46 AM
c'mon, Nick, we all know that sleep is for the weak ones
;-)))
Nickatilynx
10-07-2003, 06:53 AM
I sleep with my wife, her girlfriend, my friend, her friend and few hitchhikers....
Damn! Keeps you out of mischief I guess ;-))
c'mon, Nick, we all know that sleep is for the weak ones
I hear the :
1.) just
2.) content
3.) the clear of conscience
all sleep well.
Couldn't confirm this , myself , however. ;-))
spanno
10-07-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 6 2003, 11:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 6 2003, 11:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--spanno@Oct 6 2003, 05:59 PM
i bet you a million dollars you wouldn't pay up if he won
spanno,
only insolvent person like you would make a bet like you did...what a pity...or was it intended to be pithy?
;-)))[/b][/quote]
bet you a million dollars my broke ass is worth more than you at 27 you crazy old man :o)
Paul - good post :)
I do not think Acacia will be in Europe anytime soon, and when/if they come to Europe, then they are in for a surprise, since the european legal system(s) doesn´t quit work the same way as in the US. Heck, Acacia do not even have patents in many of the new countries/states joining the EU next year.
If Acacia or any other patent parasite are looking for a real battle, then come to Europe... their whole legal system is build by socialists :rolleyes:
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by spanno+Oct 7 2003, 06:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (spanno @ Oct 7 2003, 06:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Oct 6 2003, 11:03 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--spanno@Oct 6 2003, 05:59 PM
i bet you a million dollars you wouldn't pay up if he won
spanno,
only insolvent person like you would make a bet like you did...what a pity...or was it intended to be pithy?
;-)))
bet you a million dollars my broke ass is worth more than you at 27 you crazy old man :o)[/b][/quote]
hmmm...are you trying to make a bet with 27 years old Serge?
you are 18 years too late...
come back in 50 years....
Peaches
10-07-2003, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 7 2003, 03:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 7 2003, 03:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Ken@Oct 6 2003, 08:47 PM
Marc,
As Serge pointed out and you know very well, we can't post our contract.
why?
I have no problems posting ALL the contracts I EVER made in this life,
business and personal, including all real estate transactions, divorce decrees, traffic brokering, my cemetery plot terms, etc, etc, etc....
[/b][/quote]
That's because they're YOUR contracts. This isn't Ken's contract. :)
Far-L
10-07-2003, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Opti@Oct 6 2003, 08:43 PM
Far-L... I think you definitely are a hypocrite on this issue... I called you on your silence over R-n settling.. and you were just fine with it!
In fact You and a tide of other people wanted to shout me down when I said R-n had shafted you and now everyone else would be forced into the position of having to settle... Why didn't you complain about CE settling like you are about Ken?? Money involved for you was it?? Business decision to shut up that time maybe?
I am sure your initial intentions were good and i applauded you at the start.. but you corrupted your entire effort imho when you wimped out on calling R-n out for the backstabbing scumbag he was.
Why didn't you attack the real person who ruined your chances of putting up a proper bi-partisan industry fight? R-n Shafted your fighting fund when it mattered... YOU didnt want to bitch about that then for your own reasons....... it looks like these guys made a smart business decision that had to be made to me...
The companies with something to protect will all be forced to settle now imho.... I predict many of us wont be sending traffic to those that dont settle by the end of this year.. will be too dangerous.. why would I want to risk being taken out for sending traffic to ARS once Acacia is finished this round and starts attacking all the non-compliant program's traffic sources?
Sorry Marc.. but unless you know something special I can't see you being able to stick to this line of "fight till the death" for long.
Acacia simply divided and conquered... it's over... move on and make sure we dont let it happen next time... I cant wait until R-n starts attempting his version of "VoiceAcacia" .. will you have a fighting fund against that one too Far-L?
Opti: You are entitled to your opinion.
I don't remember you "calling me out", but allow me to answer to it now.
Personally, I am not happy about CE settling. The one nice thing about it is how can Acacia claim that I am head of conspiracy to prevent licensing when I cannot even convince our marketing partner not to license?
I have taken quite a bit of abuse about our relationship with CE under the circumstances. It sucks but I am not the kind of person to complain publicly about a partner regardless.
Does that make me a hypocrite?
No, it makes me a solid partner.
Besides, CE is not funding our defense at all, nor does their license apply to us. Ron is not my Daddy and he is not going to come to the rescue.
You think I am a hypocrite? How much have you spent protecting the industry from this type of abuse?
Ulitimately, Ron said the "truth will come out and surprise everyone". I can't wait.... but of course I won't be surprised at all.
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Peaches+Oct 7 2003, 08:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Oct 7 2003, 08:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Oct 7 2003, 03:00 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Ken@Oct 6 2003, 08:47 PM
Marc,
As Serge pointed out and you know very well, we can't post our contract.
why?
I have no problems posting ALL the contracts I EVER made in this life,
business and personal, including all real estate transactions, divorce decrees, traffic brokering, my cemetery plot terms, etc, etc, etc....
That's because they're YOUR contracts. This isn't Ken's contract. :)[/b][/quote]
you right, Peaches....
as a matter of fact,
I took a vitamin E and recalled that I basically did the same thing with sexia.com and Cohen.
and one shouldn't poke other eyes when one has a sore in his mown,
you are 100% right and I withdraw my bet and just sit on the sideline, thanks for letting me to see the light
Peaches
10-07-2003, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 7 2003, 09:38 AM
you are 100% right and I withdraw my bet and just sit on the sideline, thanks for letting me to see the light
I am copying, pasting, bolding, italicizing, changing this into a huge font and will send it to everyone I know. I suspect this is the first time anyone has ever said these words to me. :okthumb:
Far-L
10-07-2003, 09:44 AM
Opti: Homegrown, ARS, Video Secrets, Topbucks, etc... are all commited to the fight and we look forward to our day in court.
You do what you like. Acacia is not about to force us to do anything.
Hey... Halloween is coming...
Think I will go out as Acacia...
Sue! I mean, Boo!
DrGuile
10-07-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Far-L@Oct 7 2003, 08:52 AM
Hey... Halloween is coming...
Think I will go out as Acacia...
Sue! I mean, Boo!
I laughed out loud at this one...
Great to see you are keeping your sense of humor.
On a side note, Im happy to see some people standing up.
Best business decision is to license with Acacia?
Well, best business decision might also have been to side with the Nazis in WWII...
(Ok, kind of an extreme example, but you see my point.)
Also, Im not so sure its such a good and sound business decision to sign an agreement for an invalid and non-enforcable patent.
:ph34r:
Nickatilynx
10-07-2003, 10:34 AM
You ain't see nothing yet!!!!
Brian Shuster's Company (http://www.ideaflood.com/)
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Peaches+Oct 7 2003, 08:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Oct 7 2003, 08:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Oct 7 2003, 09:38 AM
you are 100% right and I withdraw my bet and just sit on the sideline, thanks for letting me to see the light
I am copying, pasting, bolding, italicizing, changing this into a huge font and will send it to everyone I know. I suspect this is the first time anyone has ever said these words to me. :okthumb:[/b][/quote]
Peaches,
the difference between the Homo Sapience and just a "homo",
is that the Homo Sapience can say:
"I was WRONG"! and thank the person who made it aparent.
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 7 2003, 09:42 AM
You ain't see nothing yet!!!!
Brian Shuster's Company (http://www.ideaflood.com/)
Jesus Christ..
The US PTO Needs a serious enema.
The US IP law is so fucked up everything should be scrapped and they should start from scratch.
Nickatilynx
10-07-2003, 10:56 AM
I've got a cunning plan I think....
Its so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a fox!!!
1.) You get a patent on something . Anything. Anything at all
2.) Get a war chest together. Or offer a % to a patent lawyer
3.) Fold it into a publicly traded vehicle.
4.) Protect your patent strongly
5.) Get some people to agree to liscense it for peanuts rather than expend huge sums to fight it.
6.) Watch your stock price rise.
7.) Caaaaching!!!
What do you think of this idea?
Feasible?
Nawwwww .....
It couldn't work.
;-)))
Far-L
10-07-2003, 11:12 AM
Nickatilynx: Yes... quite innovative... in fact it even has a name...
"The Lemelson Situation"
The Mother of all Patent Abusers (http://www.machinevisiononline.org/public/articles/articlesdetails.cfm?id=407)
Mike AI
10-07-2003, 11:17 AM
Far-L is Spike going to be in the office later this afternoon? I would like to talk to him.
Ken, I know you made some snide comments about Oprano as oposed to GFY - I have been to both threads.... I think this one is definately better. Of course I am a little biased. :D
Far-L
10-07-2003, 11:24 AM
MikeAI: Today is Spike's birthday and he is going to take most of the day off but it would be great to talk before he takes off. If you could call in about half an hour that would be ideal since we are on some conference calls right now (9:15 PST)
Far-L
10-07-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 7 2003, 06:42 AM
You ain't see nothing yet!!!!
Brian Shuster's Company (http://www.ideaflood.com/)
Like we keep saying... Acacia is simply the first but certainly not the last that will do this. Don't forget who else says he would like to be in the same business either...
Thanks for the link! More homework for IMPA.
Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 7 2003, 07:25 AM
Ken, I know you made some snide comments about Oprano as oposed to GFY - I have been to both threads.... I think this one is definately better. Of course I am a little biased. :D
Mike,
Those remarks were directed towards Serge more than the other people posting on Oprano. I think you know that ;)
If Serge opens a door, you can't blame me for walking through it ;)
Just having a little fun with old Serge ;)
Mike AI
10-07-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Ken+Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Oct 7 2003, 07:25 AM
Ken, I know you made some snide comments about Oprano as oposed to GFY - I have been to both threads.... I think this one is definately better. Of course I am a little biased. :D
Mike,
Those remarks were directed towards Serge more than the other people posting on Oprano. I think you know that ;)
If Serge opens a door, you can't blame me for walking through it ;)
Just having a little fun with old Serge ;)[/b][/quote]
I figured, I was just making sure... with Jesus of Jettis heading over here, I do not want to have to kidnap him, and start sending various body parts back to Cali.... :rolleyes:
I find it funny, and entertaining. I consider you both good friends, and value ya'll opinions.
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Ken+Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Oct 7 2003, 07:25 AM
Ken, I know you made some snide comments about Oprano as oposed to GFY - I have been to both threads.... I think this one is definately better. Of course I am a little biased. :D
Mike,
Those remarks were directed towards Serge more than the other people posting on Oprano. I think you know that ;)
If Serge opens a door, you can't blame me for walking through it ;)
Just having a little fun with old Serge ;)[/b][/quote]
aqnd how the fuck did I miss 'em all?
where did you post them?
You know how much I enjoy busting your balls, don't ya?
;-))
Bring 'em in!
;-))
and we'll devise the plan together to save webmasters from the tirany!
ha!
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Ken@Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM
Just having a little fun with old Serge ;)
having fun with "young Ken" was much more fun...according to The Hun
;-)))
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 7 2003, 08:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 7 2003, 08:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Ken@Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM
Just having a little fun with old Serge ;)
having fun with "young Ken" was much more fun...according to The Hun
;-)))[/b][/quote]
yep....I've become boring in my old age. Sorry.... :agrin:
Far-L
10-07-2003, 01:35 PM
MikeAI: Let's do a conference call together with Spike tomorrow if that is convenient for you. What time works best for you?
Mike AI
10-07-2003, 01:40 PM
Tommorow is cool, would be best in around 10 your time ( noon mine).
michael at hirise dot com
I will send you my cell #.
dig420
10-07-2003, 03:50 PM
Affiliates are a very important part of their business, therefore it IS in theirr best interest to protect them and look after their best interests. Did they make the decision to settle just to help their affiliates? Or course not. But I do think they will benefit from this in the long run.
----------------
You're helping your affiliates by handing Acacia a bat to beat them with? how are you helping your webmasters by increasing Acacia's power to extort them out of the money they've made?
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Ken+Oct 7 2003, 12:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Oct 7 2003, 12:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Oct 7 2003, 08:52 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Ken@Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM
Just having a little fun with old Serge ;)
having fun with "young Ken" was much more fun...according to The Hun
;-)))
yep....I've become boring in my old age. Sorry.... :agrin:[/b][/quote]
on the contrary....you show consistency
;-)
Hun..Acacia...links of the same fence
;-)))
you would have won with Hun, you know
;-)))
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 7 2003, 12:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 7 2003, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Ken@Oct 7 2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Oct 7 2003, 08:52 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Ken@Oct 7 2003, 11:10 AM
Just having a little fun with old Serge ;)
having fun with "young Ken" was much more fun...according to The Hun
;-)))
yep....I've become boring in my old age. Sorry.... :agrin:
on the contrary....you show consistency
;-)
Hun..Acacia...links of the same fence
;-)))
you would have won with Hun, you know
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Serge,
It's all about choosing your battles wisely. You know that....
I like to spend my time moving forward, not fighting about things that in the big picture are not going to mean much. Not enough time in the day........
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 04:29 PM
Serge,
It's all about choosing your battles wisely. You know that....
I like to spend my time moving forward, not fighting about things that in the big picture are not going to mean much. Not enough time in the day........[/QUOTE]
which brings us back to the first page of this thread:
SMELL THE FUCKING COFFEE!
you don't wanna be the richest corps at the cemetery
;-))
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 04:33 PM
you are my "younger brother" and I am concrened about you...
I want you enjoy YOUR life to the fuliest
;_)))
Far-L
10-07-2003, 04:36 PM
Ken: IMO, the big picture is that many companies are going to try and take advantage of these preditory litigations on IP. Acacia is only one but they won't be the last.
I know you did not want to settle and the decision came from higher up. I respect you for walking out to deal with that decision so straightforwardly, no matter the reaction.
I think it is important for us to set the perimeter and send the right message out to those that would attempt these types of lawsuits. It is worth it for our industry to show its resolve and not be considered "low hanging fruit" to every tom dick and harry carpetbagging company trying to abuse loopholes in the Patent Process and reconstrue non-applicable patents improperly.
We all have to ask ourselves "when is enough enough" then balance that by "where will my company be in ten years" and "what do I stand to lose" and the weight of that impacts our choices on whether we fight or settle. At this time, in this fight, we are resolved and firm in our convictions. We look forward to our day in court.
Last edited by Far-L at Oct 7 2003, 12:47 PM
Hooper
10-07-2003, 04:44 PM
this thread is STILL going on???
why didnt anybody else get as much shit when they announced a settlement?
Far-L
10-07-2003, 04:54 PM
Flynt is seen since the movie about his First Amendment case as being a "saviour" of the adult industry.
I think a touch of existential reality hit and it was like saying "God is dead"... riots occured as a result and the entire balance of the natural order of the universe came into dispute.
gonzo
10-07-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Far-L@Oct 7 2003, 01:02 PM
Flynt is seen since the movie about his First Amendment case as being a "saviour" of the adult industry.
I think a touch of existential reality hit and it was like saying "God is dead"... riots occured as a result and the entire balance of the natural order of the universe came into dispute.
Did Ron die? I thought he was God.
Hooper
10-07-2003, 05:01 PM
it's R-n.
you're just begging for his wrath now arent you.
Winetalk.com
10-07-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Far-L@Oct 7 2003, 04:02 PM
Flynt is seen since the movie about his First Amendment case as being a "saviour" of the adult industry.
I think a touch of existential reality hit and it was like saying "God is dead"... riots occured as a result and the entire balance of the natural order of the universe came into dispute.
I concur...
Bestat
10-07-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Marc De@Oct 6 2003, 10:28 PM
I also reflect back to my comment on education. There is a lot of educating that needs to take place so smaller affiliates aren't 'scared' of Acacia. The more educated we are the better decisions we'll make.
I could not agree more Marc, and I think the idea of the radio show in an excellent one! Far too many people are in a panic without finding out the facts. Information is a powerful weapon, unfortunately mis-information is as well, it is just one we use on ourselves.B)
I would agree the well known brands and personalities took a beating in many webmasters minds, however thats part of the price which one have to pay when signing with Acacia, since Acacia celebrates each new licensor with press releases to the world!
I guess if you are company number 100 to sign with Acacia, then it will get easier, since webmasters will be used to the news by then.... that is unless Acacia decides to buy all ads spots on oprano, gfy etc. to celebrate
their licensor # 100 :zoinks:
Mike AI
10-07-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Rolo@Oct 7 2003, 05:23 PM
I would agree the well known brands and personalities took a beating in many webmasters minds, however thats part of the price which one have to pay when signing with Acacia, since Acacia celebrates each new licensor with press releases to the world!
I guess if you are company number 100 to sign with Acacia, then it will get easier, since webmasters will be used to the news by then.... that is unless Acacia decides to buy all ads spots on oprano, gfy etc. to celebrate
their licensor # 100 :zoinks:
Think they will give anything away for the 100th customer?
:D
This whole thing has me pretty depressed....
If you think Acacia is the end of it, think again....
http://www.ideaflood.com/apps.asp
I have heard that R-n is trying to acquire some of Shuster's patents to unleash a reign of tyranny on the adult net...like the exit console one.
That and Serge has mentioned the patents that GaryK has.
I think it is time to stop the go along to get along BS, and people start telling the truth.
Larry Flynt is a defender of NOTHING but Larry Flynt... everything else is a fictionalized Hollywood versions. ( I have been saying this from day one.) There is nothing wrong with Flynt looking out for himself, that is what people do - but when others praise him for looking out for others... well, I think this post makes it abudently clear what the deal is.
We have got to step up, or next thing we know 20% of gross will be heading out the door to all these cockholsters.
Get Educated and fight back!
The internet is like water - it shapes its course around/above/below the objects which blocks the flow.
There might be room for 1 or 2 patent parasites in the US without the internet changing its course, but put 10 or 20 patent parasites in the water, and it will block any business from being done from the US, and then the "hosts" they had invaded will die along with the patent parasites...
However this will not stop the real money being made from the internet - it will just happende from places where patent parasites have no claims.
So dear Mr. Patent Parasite, you might think that you can control your patents, but reality is that you are fighting a battle which is already lost - not because of the courts, but because of the evalution of the internet.
SykkBoy
10-07-2003, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 7 2003, 05:39 PM
If you think Acacia is the end of it, think again....
http://www.ideaflood.com/apps.asp
I have heard that R-n is trying to acquire some of Shuster's patents to unleash a reign of tyranny on the adult net...like the exit console one.
That and Serge has mentioned the patents that GaryK has.
I guess these things happen when your webmaster program is no longer in the Top 5 and that piece of Internet property you worked so hard to get back is worth half of what it was when it was owned by a crook........
Far-L
10-07-2003, 11:11 PM
Sykkboy: Couldn't agree with you more...
In fact it gave me nightmares... visions of an apocalyptic future...revelations...
I see a Demon that doth bear two faces one that is snarling in rage and the other with blunted teeth trying to take a bite out of the frail and meek lambs that run in terror before it... it ravages the countryside and holds all accountable to it promising to take back the bounty it claims to have once dispersed and demands that interest be paid in flesh and blood.
Look upon the storm that rapes the infinite blue skies and offends the chastity of the honest souls! Gaze in horror and do not look away!
The cataclysm follows the terrifying beast and lays fires from lightning that strikes without warning and the thunder breaks the resolve of the weak hearted into a hundred shards for which there is no repair.
The faint hearted are consumed by the pious, who ridicule the sacrifices made by the meek then gorge on the fruits of their labors.
Greed breaks wind and laughs all the way to the bank to make a deposit of blood, sweat, and tears, the wages of sin and profited at the expense of syncophantic leeches that spit rather than swallow their shame.
Hark! Look upon the devastation and fear it not! There are knights in silken pajamas carrying sharp swords! There is a covenant of the faithful who know no fear of this beast and will stand against it as a mountain stands before a storm. There are angels that come to reinforce the will of the good!
There will be pain, sacrifice, and defeat, but in the end the faithful will know the glory of justice and truth will once again step forth across the land and make us all rich the old fashioned way... that is... it will be earned by those most deserving... and so the true believers have little to fear.
At least that is the way it went down in my Dream Circle...
Last edited by Far-L at Oct 7 2003, 07:21 PM
gonzo
10-07-2003, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Hooper@Oct 7 2003, 01:09 PM
it's R-n.
you're just begging for his wrath now arent you.
Nah he likes me Hoop.
Just last year I was drinking at the same table with him and a few guys from Matrix.
He said that I should consult with his friend Kaiser on how to do biz on the web...he could help me out a lot!
I had to cut the visit short though. I nearly choked to death on my drink and an ice cube.
BradShaw
10-08-2003, 12:57 AM
Wow.
Looks like a good time to get out of this biz. I have heard rumors of former big guys buying patents as well.
Companies are doing what is best for them, with no thought or concern of the industry as a whole. But, hard to say I would not/have not done the same thing.
Mike AI
10-08-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 8 2003, 12:05 AM
Wow.
Looks like a good time to get out of this biz. I have heard rumors of former big guys buying patents as well.
Companies are doing what is best for them, with no thought or concern of the industry as a whole. But, hard to say I would not/have not done the same thing.
Brad you are right, I understand people making best deals they can. I just don't want to see anything else about heros, and fighting the good fight, we owe them everything, they are leaders, etc....
I might have done same thing... it was business decision....
OF course there are some that are working against the industry, who want to rape it for as much as they can. These are the real snakes that need to be outed, and vilified!
Hooper
10-08-2003, 01:10 AM
who?
Hell Puppy
10-08-2003, 01:13 AM
All of this is exactly why Acacia went after the adult industry.
There's money here. But the industry is not organized and in fact the big players are so competitive and untrusting of one another that they are prone to stab each other in the back just to make a couple of extra points. Far-L, Spike and crew are fighting the good fight, but we're obviously seeing more and more big players cave and look out for self interests.
I do not fault them, just saying that this is exactly what Acacia is counting on.
Someone needs to put 'em on the stand in front of a judge and ask them why they haven't gone after such huge blatent offenders as Real, Microsoft, AOLTW, Disney, et al. It's obvious this is a shake down, but the system favors the patent holder if you do not fight them.
Far-L
10-08-2003, 02:27 AM
Brad: I have huge respect for your stand on this. Enough said because I will never be able to say enough.
I also have to say the we, as well as many others, are involved in generating patents. It is one thing to be the legitimate inventor of something and patenting it vs. being an Acaica and blatantly misenforcing a non-applicable patent that should not be valid in the first place.
Hell Puppy: Thanks for the kind words. I have to say that I did not get into this to be a hero. I did not get into this to improve business. I got into this to defend MY company from losing income. I simply came to separate conclusions about what would be good for us than the others that settled came to.
My reasoning came down to a number of factors. Money, obviously, but also seeing that this was a rising trend and a problem that would become endemic to business overall. I thought also "if my customers have less money to spend then they have less money to buy" and that is what helped me to realize what is universally at stake here for all of us. Imagine if Acacia pulls 2 to 200 million out of the industry every year? What is the next shakedown going to be taking out?
So that is how I got myself into this mess... and why I have no intention of getting out until it is cleaned up as much as I am able with the others that have chosen a similar path.
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