Profit Margins

[BradShaw]

Anyone care to share some #'s? I have heard rumblings of profit margins under 10%. Companies spending $1million a month to make under $100k a month. Our margins are 15-20+%, but I run a very tight ship, and do not have the highest payouts.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Oct 1 2003, 10:12 AM
Anyone care to share some #'s? I have heard rumblings of profit margins under 10%. Companies spending $1million a month to make under $100k a month. Our margins are 15-20+%, but I run a very tight ship, and do not have the highest payouts.
our profit margins remain as they were since the day one....99.99%
except...the gross went down 50% from the top.

and the worst part is....I can't fuckin shave anybody
;-((((

what to do? what to do???
I am at a looss....
;-)))

[Buff]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 1 2003, 09:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 1 2003, 09:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--BradShaw@Oct 1 2003, 10:12 AM
Anyone care to share some #'s? I have heard rumblings of profit margins under 10%. Companies spending $1million a month to make under $100k a month. Our margins are 15-20+%, but I run a very tight ship, and do not have the highest payouts.
our profit margins remain as they were since the day one....99.99%
except...the gross went down 50% from the top.

and the worst part is....I can't fuckin shave anybody
;-((((

what to do? what to do???
I am at a looss....
;-)))[/b][/quote]
With profit margins like that, the last thing you're at is a loss. Take this thing public and let me in on the IPO!

[Nickatilynx]

and the worst part is....I can't fuckin shave anybody
;-((((

what to do? what to do???
I am at a looss....
;-)))

Just wait. ;-)))
Patience is a virtue in this game. :-)))
You never know whats round the corner.But in order to find out,you have to be here :-)))

Brad,
Fuck margins.I'm interested in the Net,net ;-))

My net has risen dramatically since I stopped partying and thus reduced overheads. ;-))

To maintain margins/net at this time,I think it is easier to reduce overheads than it is to increase the gross.

Back to sound business basics....no fancy parties,no $2000 dinners etc...

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Buff+Oct 1 2003, 10:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Buff @ Oct 1 2003, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Oct 1 2003, 09:28 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--BradShaw@Oct 1 2003, 10:12 AM
Anyone care to share some #'s? I have heard rumblings of profit margins under 10%. Companies spending $1million a month to make under $100k a month. Our margins are 15-20+%, but I run a very tight ship, and do not have the highest payouts.
our profit margins remain as they were since the day one....99.99%
except...the gross went down 50% from the top.

and the worst part is....I can't fuckin shave anybody
;-((((

what to do? what to do???
I am at a looss....
;-)))
With profit margins like that, the last thing you're at is a loss. Take this thing public and let me in on the IPO![/b][/quote]
Buff, not true...

1) I am at a loss what to do, not at a loss physically

2) Stop laughing at my problems...they might be small to you, but they are MINE nevertheless!
;-)))

[Nickatilynx]

With profit margins like that, the last thing you're at is a loss. Take this thing public and let me in on the IPO!


When you try it,make sure no one on the management team has a pandering conviction. ;-)))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 10:41 AM
and the worst part is....I can't fuckin shave anybody
;-((((

what to do? what to do???
I am at a looss....
;-)))

Just wait. ;-)))
Patience is a virtue in this game. :-)))
You never know whats round the corner.But in order to find out,you have to be here :-)))

Brad,
Fuck margins.I'm interested in the Net,net ;-))

My net has risen dramatically since I stopped partying and thus reduced overheads. ;-))

To maintain margins/net at this time,I think it is easier to reduce overheads than it is to increase the gross.

Back to sound business basics....no fancy parties,no $2000 dinners etc...
hmmm...I never been at your parties, EVER, so you won't save much on me
;-))))

I think you ALWAYS been saving time not using space bar/bad key board,
you frugulness is legendary, Nickolas
;-))))

[BradShaw]

I have always been a cheap fuck. I am happy to go to other peoples parties and dinners, but you will not see me spending big bucks!

Amazing that companies still spend money on those parties, booths, etc. We may bring back the inflatable sofas for vegas!

[Nickatilynx]

I think you ALWAYS been saving time not using space bar/bad key board,
you frugulness is legendary, Nickolas
;-))))

Great! Typing criticisms from Serge! ;-))
(better ? ) ;-)))

And comments on frugulness from a man who could fight over a penny and make copper wire !

;-))

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 10:41 AM
My net has risen dramatically since I stopped partying and thus reduced overheads. ;-))
I could have shaved webmasters but then I got high.

[Hooper]

i havent seen a significant change in margins over the past year. definitely lower than it was in 2000. but not any kind of decline.

i agree with nick though. i think margins are irrelevant, in fact taking lower margins will often increase ones net significantly. fat margins are great if you're withdrawing cash a lot though.

[Nickatilynx]

I could have shaved webmasters but then I got high.

:agrin: :wnw:

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 10:50 AM
I think you ALWAYS been saving time not using space bar/bad key board,
you frugulness is legendary, Nickolas
;-))))

Great! Typing criticisms from Serge! ;-))
(better ? ) ;-)))

And comments on frugulness from a man who could fight over a penny and make copper wire !

;-))
as always,
half truth wrapped in misdirection...I taught you well, my student!
;-))))))

YES, it was a penny,
BUT...on 2 millions clicks a day!!!!!

we are not talking copper wire here,
we are talking MAJOR gold foil!!!!
;-))))

[Nickatilynx]

as always,
half truth wrapped in misdirection...

Why would you say that?
( You did teach me well , didn't you! )

;-))

YES, it was a penny,
BUT...on 2 millions clicks a day!!!!!

we are not talking copper wire here,
we are talking MAJOR gold foil!!!!
;-))))

I think in May/June those days may return.

Someone told me...."The only thing matters...traffic" ;-))

Someone will ALWAYS want it.

I no longer have water, but noodles,and big lumps of chicken ;-)))

Admit it!!! You need to broker some traffic again....its in your blood. Its like an itch you need to scatch!;-)))

I truly believe that those who avoid the falling sky may see the "super profits" of 1999/2000 again. :-)

[Mike AI]

Margin is definately smaller for all the old HiRise prperties, but have stabilized....

For PureCash, being a new program and having signups start rolling in, we are still upside down, but I doubt it is as much as a lost of new programs ( we spent a long time in planning this).... Of course we knew this to be the case, and have a nice warchest to get us through until we get profitable....

I think those who make it into 2005 will reap a lot of benefits....

[Nickatilynx]

I think those who make it into 2005 will reap a lot of benefits....


I agree 100%

Who will still be here is the question.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 11:31 AM


I think in May/June those days may return.

Someone told me...."The only thing matters...traffic" ;-))

Someone will ALWAYS want it.

I no longer have water, but noodles,and big lumps of chicken ;-)))

Admit it!!! You need to broker some traffic again....its in your blood. Its like an itch you need to scatch!;-)))

I truly believe that those who avoid the falling sky may see the "super profits" of 1999/2000 again. :-)
Nick, I swear, I DO NOT!!!!!

well, only when I wanna stick my dick into somebody and give 'em financial spanking (using Gary Kremen's words)
;-))))

I can't work anymore and brokerage requires A LOT of WORK...

[Nickatilynx]

Nick, I swear, I DO NOT!!!!!

well, only when I wanna stick my dick into somebody and give 'em financial spanking (using Gary Kremen's words)
;-))))

I can't work anymore and brokerage requires A LOT of WORK...


Nice half truth and misdirection yourself there , master ;-)))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 11:46 AM
Nick, I swear, I DO NOT!!!!!

well, only when I wanna stick my dick into somebody and give 'em financial spanking (using Gary Kremen's words)
;-))))

I can't work anymore and brokerage requires A LOT of WORK...


Nice half truth and misdirection yourself there , master ;-)))
Nick,
YES, sometimes I DO feel the urge but...calm down and come to my sences.

LIFE IS TOO SHORT to spend it all working.
Reading stories here and there how guys hit the bucket at the age 50-60 is making my choices in life clear:
travel, enjoy it while it lasts and quit thinking of the old narcotics like "power and world domination"
;-))))

[Nickatilynx]

quit thinking of the old narcotics like "power and world domination"

To think like that is merely human nature. :)

But power is fleeting , owning a work of art is historic. ;-)

Go on be devil......


Just a tiny little one (http://www.coastgalleries.com/chagall/collection.php?newpage=0001000400070012&cid=chagall-original-paintings)

:devil:

Marc Chagall - "Great art picks up where nature ends"

;-)))

It does take money though.



Last edited by Nickatilynx at Oct 1 2003, 09:25 AM

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 12:19 PM
quit thinking of the old narcotics like "power and world domination"

To think like that is merely human nature. :)

But power is fleeting , owning a work of art is historic. ;-)

Go on be devil......


Just a tiny little one (http://www.coastgalleries.com/chagall/collection.php?newpage=0001000400070012&cid=chagall-original-paintings)

:devil:

Marc Chagall - "Great art picks up where nature ends"

;-)))

It does take money though.
darn,
you are right on the money with this one
;-))))

get a hold of this...

we are in Milan, last nite, at the restaurant,
and I see this on the wall:

http://cotac.com/wow.JPG

I am INSTANTLY falling in love,
for me,
it's a clown from Picasso pink period drinking like the girl from his blue period!
I have no clue who this is and...I offer the restaurant owner $1000..
he say NO, it's NOT for sale.

Every time I am odering Averna after the dinner, I offer him ..$500 more and still..
\Not for sale"

I left offer on my credit card bill of..
$10,000 and my cell number..
still no calls
;-(((

you think I can find some Russian painter who can make me a copy for $500? I think I can...
"work smart" as we say in this business
;-)))

[Mike AI]

Somone posted this on GFY http://www.uaac.com.hk/news.html

Looked interesting - said they can do custom work at good prices. Might be something to look into Serge. Ready to open a gallery?

[*KK*]

Depending on how the Visa fallout comes down the line, profit margins could very easily go up tremendously for those that make it through the cut.

The only real cost for most programs in doing business is advertising, and that to me includes webmaster payouts.

If you could cut that expense by a huge percentage, whether willingly or because you had no choice, things would be dandy for alot of the site owners.

The system is changing, and its picking up speed as it changes, just like any other downhill slide.

Will be interesting to see who's in Vegas in January with the Hanco booth ;)

[Nickatilynx]

The only real cost for most programs in doing business is advertising, and that to me includes webmaster payouts.

Concentrate on generating your own traffic is key :-)))

[*KK*]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 12:46 PM
The only real cost for most programs in doing business is advertising, and that to me includes webmaster payouts.

Concentrate on generating your own traffic is key :-)))
It soon may be the only option...

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Oct 1 2003, 03:46 PM
Concentrate on generating your own traffic is key :-)))
And doing so with a bit of automation never hurts either. :)

[Brad_wishing]

I don't know that the visa deal will be as bad as some say. At the same time, I am scared shitless about the possibilities.

I just wonder how it is going to pan out.

[Hooper]

Anybody who is willing to play by the rules will be fine imho. It's unfortunate though... i have a feeling that many people are going to start abusing the new "nooks & crannies" of the rules.

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by Hooper@Oct 1 2003, 05:33 PM
Anybody who is willing to play by the rules will be fine imho. It's unfortunate though... i have a feeling that many people are going to start abusing the new "nooks & crannies" of the rules.
Start? A few are already well on there way.

[Carrie]

Brad I'd be interested in who you think will still be here - and who won't - come February or so of next year?

[Rolo]

I´m sure VISA/MC have already selected who they do not want to see here anymore.

VISA is attacking crossborder billers and major programs, MC is attacking 3rd party billers and major programs.

At the same time they are also upping the price for being in the game, so the small/medium programs have to open their wallets... Try and get an adult merchant account today compare with 3 years ago - doesn´t matter if its in the US or Europe, the rules and prices change almost daily, and the number of banks who want to play are getting fewer.... Things have changed, and VISA/MC wants to have less players in the game.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Rolo@Oct 2 2003, 02:21 AM
Things have changed, and VISA/MC wants to have less players in the game.
yeap, they took care of me all right...I was outed by 'em in 1997!
;-))))

[Rolo]

Serge, since you were one of the first, then you will stay a legend :wnw:

Companies/webmasters today will face oblivion, if it should ever happende to them :zoinks:

[Rolo]

So, anyone dare to predict how their profit margins will be in the 6-12 months from now?

Higher, Same, Lower?

I actual think our paysite profits will be lower in 2004... new backends to stay ahead of the problems, danger of more rules or sanctions/fines from the banks, and lets not forget the possible Ashcroft, ACACIA etc. lawsuites... seams like alot of places which can take money from you without paying anything back.

[*KK*]

My money's on the margins for the survivors being better than they have in 3 years.

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 1 2003, 10:28 PM
Brad I'd be interested in who you think will still be here - and who won't - come February or so of next year?
The scammers will be here next year, they are smart. There will be a few casualties, but I think overall, programs will find ways to weasel around the rules. Once again, VISA will fail at whatever they are trying to do. If they want to clean up the biz, they need to hire MikeAI and I.

[Hooper]

I wouldnt doubt that margins will be better in a few years... but more imporantly.. will the profits be as good?

[Carrie]

I think they will, Hooper. After the cleaning-out, there'll be bigger slices of pie to go around. Shades of old times.

Unless of course Brad's prediction comes true and the cockroaches are the ones left standing.

[Rolo]

Yes, scammers will be here, and I think that VISA/MC will be more quick to adapt new rules in the future to target them, however scammers will probably be just as quick to change their systems... If this continues to happen, then it could lead to VISA/MC changing the billing options available
for adult products, which will really hurt profits short term for all of us.
VISA/MC do not see the different shapes we come in - to them we are all just porn pendlers - including the scammers :blink:

[LeeNoga]

Is exhibiting at Internext really necessary in 2004? I am seeing the big players cut way back, and honestly if they did not do the show I do not think they will be none the worse.

I think Internext played its part but is not as crucial as it once was, but thats my opinion.

Anyone none the worst cutting back on doing shows?

[gonzo]

Originally posted by LeeNoga@Oct 3 2003, 06:48 AM
Is exhibiting at Internext really necessary in 2004? I am seeing the big players cut way back, and honestly if they did not do the show I do not think they will be none the worse.

I think Internext played its part but is not as crucial as it once was, but thats my opinion.

Anyone none the worst cutting back on doing shows?
I know Jack Rickard isnt....

[Mike AI]

Unfortunately, I think Brad is right. The cockholsters who got us to this posistion will still survive. The big guys have the ability to hire the best attorneys, CPAs, and spend a lot of time planning to exploit the new VISA rules.

Infact, I have pretty good idea how its going to be done.... I call it the "Pick a Patsy game".... They are bifercating companies... creating 1 master company that takes in money, and sends out the traffic. It will be the "marketing company" it will own no websites, not content, and will even claim to market for other thngs beside porn.

Then there will be multible satelitte companies that will actually own clusters of sites. Each one of these companies will be disposable, run by the Patsy. ( Need someone to take the heat for getting knocked out by VISA). Of course Visa moves pretty slowly, so each company could last from 6 months to a year.... when it gets to bad, they move on to the next company that has been set up for months, already has sites ( different tours, different names, probably same back ends). Then the process continues.... Welcome to "Pick a Patsy"

Look around at how many new small "programs" have opened up.... I promise you, many are owned by the big boys in anticpation of the new rules.

[Nickatilynx]

Mike,

Judging by how it used to be that no one sent spam , except for cockholsters , a couple of years back.

What you have just described will be the industry norm in a year or two.

Playing within the rules is how you win.

If they want to clean up the biz, they need to hire MikeAI and I.


Brad,
Look out!!! You have a strong chance of dissappearing up your own ass!!

ahahahahahaha

[Vick]

MikeAI - the problem with Pick-a-Patsy you outlined is revenues lost when fined

Today we don't know even if Visa will terminate anyone for being over 1%CB, if I understand correctly they have reserved the right but won't have to (it's their ball so they make the rules)

Ergo - I think the problem may end up being the weight of the fines. For that much Visa/MC could just keep all the revenue of cockholsters and say you broke our rules - see ya in court

If some cockholsters start mucking around like you've outlined we may see larger holdback's or a lag time to payment (say net 45 days as opposed to what it is now)

[Mike AI]

Very good points Vick, the "Pick a Patsy" is not a perfect system, but its what people are doing.

Also under 100 CBs brings you to a 2.5% CB rate.... so maybe they load balance the traffic to limit CBs on each "program".

There are ways to stop it, but I am not sure VISA is ready to really slam the door on these people.

[Vick]

I believe it Mike

and if cockholsters muck around (like they will) look for Visa/MC to get even tighter ....ouch. Wednesday October 1 could well be just the beginning