Tony Blair

[JR]

Watched him speak to Congress. He is my favorite leader. He is one of the better speakers of any leader on the planet right now... on par with Churchill. really amazing.

[sarah_webinc]

when you don't have to deal with domestic politics it is easy to make someone your faveorite leader.

[JR]

how is he a bad leader? a bad politician?

[=^..^=]

..just ask the dead guy :agrin:

[JR]

Originally posted by =^..^=@Jul 18 2003, 04:15 AM
..just ask the dead guy :agrin:
i cant. he is dead. besides, he missed the speech.

[=^..^=]

Originally posted by JR+Jul 18 2003, 04:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Jul 18 2003, 04:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--=^..^=@Jul 18 2003, 04:15 AM
..just ask the dead guy :agrin:
i cant. he is dead. besides, he missed the speech.[/b][/quote]
unless he's dead "sadam-style" :yowsa:

[JR]

its not enough that enough people hate freedom so much that they would defend Saddam Hussein for 12 years.... but now we have to accuse the Prime Minister of murdering a PM?

i am not sure what you are suggesting

[=^..^=]

take no notice of me - I have Friday Night Pizza Psychosis


to tell the truth I think I've only ever heard Blair speak twice - and once was this mornign

for a country living under british Rule - autralia really doesnt give him any air time
we get Bush nonstop though

[Almighty Colin]

I completely agree with you JR.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by sarah_webinc@Jul 18 2003, 06:47 AM
when you don't have to deal with domestic politics it is easy to make someone your faveorite leader.
Are you saying it's easier for a non-American to like George Bush than an American because they don't have to deal with his domestic policies?

[Trev]

I fully support every choice Blair made in the conflict and I still stand right behind him now... as for what he's done for say our health care or taxes is where he starts to lose my support...

Oh yeah and I don't want to be part of the damn Euro either, I like my money just the way it is, in Pounds and Pence... but he's a firm single monetary Europe supporter!!

[JR]

Originally posted by Trev@Jul 18 2003, 05:07 AM
I fully support every choice Blair made in the conflict and I still stand right behind him now... as for what he's done for say our health care or taxes is where he starts to lose my support...

Oh yeah and I don't want to be part of the damn Euro either, I like my money just the way it is, in Pounds and Pence... but he's a firm single monetary Europe supporter!!
whats the deal with the Euro? i mean i understand the conflict, the arguments, the "tests" etc... but i was in London and i went to watch 8 Mile when it came out and there was a massive commercial at the beginning of the movie against the Euro. i was a little shocked at how viscious it was. who pays for that stuff and is campaigning so hard against the Euro?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by JR@Jul 18 2003, 07:36 AM
Watched him speak to Congress. He is my favorite leader. He is one of the better speakers of any leader on the planet right now... on par with Churchill. really amazing.
I've only caught snippets of the news, but aren't his constituents complaining loudly against him regarding Iraq like the whiners here in the US?

And BTW, not only is he smart and a great speaker, he's also darned cute. :inlove:

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Peaches+Jul 18 2003, 08:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Jul 18 2003, 08:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JR@Jul 18 2003, 07:36 AM
Watched him speak to Congress. He is my favorite leader. He is one of the better speakers of any leader on the planet right now... on par with Churchill. really amazing.
I've only caught snippets of the news, but aren't his constituents complaining loudly against him regarding Iraq like the whiners here in the US?

And BTW, not only is he smart and a great speaker, he's also darned cute. :inlove:[/b][/quote]
Yeah. but would you MARRY him? ;-)

[Trev]

Personally I'm against the Euro because I'm a very loyalist kind of person, the Queens (or our future Kings) head should be on every thing I spend, well here at home any way...

Pound = British, fish and chips, roast beef dinners, Yorkshire puddings...
Euro = NOT BRITISH, German, Swiss, Spanish, Italian and worst of all FRENCH

I do know that most of the opposition to the Euro gets huge backing from some private sector companies but I have no clue who they are...

I also know in the back of my mind that being in the Euro would bring the UK back to being a competitive nation, as the price we pay for Sterling being so high in the exchange is most companies have turned to countries such as Hungary and Bulgaria for their purchasing and development.

Would any American here support any plans to remove the Dollar?

I don't think so :D

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Colin@Jul 18 2003, 09:40 AM
Yeah. but would you MARRY him? ;-)
:nyanya:

[Trev]

Originally posted by Peaches+Jul 18 2003, 02:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Jul 18 2003, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Colin@Jul 18 2003, 09:40 AM
Yeah. but would you MARRY him? ;-)
:nyanya:[/b][/quote]
is that a maybe :D

[JR]

Originally posted by Trev@Jul 18 2003, 05:40 AM
Personally I'm against the Euro because I'm a very loyalist kind of person, the Queens (or our future Kings) head should be on every thing I spend, well here at home any way...

Pound = British, fish and chips, roast beef dinners, Yorkshire puddings...
Euro = NOT BRITISH, German, Swiss, Spanish, Italian and worst of all FRENCH

I do know that most of the opposition to the Euro gets huge backing from some private sector companies but I have no clue who they are...

I also know in the back of my mind that being in the Euro would bring the UK back to being a competitive nation, as the price we pay for Sterling being so high in the exchange is most companies have turned to countries such as Hungary and Bulgaria for their purchasing and development.

Would any American here support any plans to remove the Dollar?

I don't think so :D
i think its a pretty big leap to take for one of the worlds financial centers. its not doing the rest of Europe much good. first it lost 40% of its value... then strengthened to become stronger than the dollar and crippled exports to the US.

i think it will be ok. its a tough call to leap off that bridge ... not knowing how far you will fall. thats a lot of investors to spook. i believe in the future of the Euro because of its necessity for cross border European trade. i have more faith in the future of the Euro than i do the EU.

[Trev]

Originally posted by JR@Jul 18 2003, 02:50 PM
i think its a pretty big leap to take for one of the worlds financial centers. its not doing the rest of Europe much good. first it lost 40% of its value... then strengthened to become stronger than the dollar and crippled exports to the US.

i think it will be ok. its a tough call to leap off that bridge ... not knowing how far you will fall. thats a lot of investors to spook. i believe in the future of the Euro because of its necessity for cross border European trade. i have more faith in the future of the Euro than i do the EU.
I believe your right but as I've stated in another post on here on Oprano's I'm old fashioned, and as you say I'm very nervous about the transition of going from something that’s been there all my life, to something foreign... maybe it's because I class it as foreign that it worries me...

[Almighty Colin]

I was surprised when the Germans gave up the Mark.

[Mike AI]

I am not sure about Blair's domestic policies... but I did gain a LOT of respect for him on the Iraq issue. He speaks very well, and is very compelling!! Bush is lucky to have him as a friend!

:okthumb:

[sarah_webinc]

Yes, he is a good speaker and when you are used to listening to Bush I would imagine why he stands out. Afterall, keep in mind that Blair has to debate live on tv every week (Prime Minister's Question Time) and saying stuff like 'all i know is they are bad guys' would have him ousted by the end of the year. So, he has very good writers and he is skilled at public speaking.

I also think he gets a bit of a bad rap over here because everyone loves to hate the leader of the day. There are issues such as social care reforms, tuition fees, that have had negitive effects on the people of the UK. However, what will undo him is the spin and his relationship with his spokesperson Alastair Campbell. It is getting to the point where people don't belive what he says because everything is so carefully spun and now things that he 'spun' years ago are starting to come back and bite him in the bum. 'Oh what a tangled we we weave...'

That said, I like him a great deal more than any of the other party leaders in the UK. The Torry leader, Ian Duncan Smith, doesn't have a hope in hell of winning anything. The Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy lost it for me big time during the build up to the war. It was just too blatantly obvious that he was jumping on whatever band wagon.

As far as the war goes I think we should be happy there was a Blair. Hopefully he balanced out a bit of the gun-hoe from Bush's side. Problem is that as liberal as I am I feel he has lost touch with his electorate and he needs to do something rather quick to gain back their trust.

I will say that the British love to build someone up and then tear them down. It is almost a national sport and something that does annoy me at times. So, it was only a matter of time until Blair would be come the face of everything that is wrong with the country.

I would expect Blair to make it to the next election but once it is over here will either step down as leader or there will be a vote of confidence called. Get familiar with the name Gordon Brown.

[sarettah]

I think one of the commentators on CNN or Fox (I was flipping :)) said it best yesterday:

"The British accent give him a 10 point head start here in the U.S."

:yowsa:

[Trev]

Sarah very well said :okthumb:

[wargames]

very true sarah

[Hooper]

I think he would be much more likable if he pulled his nose out of gw's ass. He's shot himself in the foot with this even more than gw did. His approval ratings are in the toilet in the uk. People think he is america's lapdog.. and they are right.

If you're from the uk.. you're really just a second class american citizen anyways. :nyanya:

[KC]

Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 18 2003, 02:56 PM
I think he would be much more likable if he pulled his nose out of gw's ass. He's shot himself in the foot with this even more than gw did. His approval ratings are in the toilet in the uk. People think he is america's lapdog.. and they are right.

If you're from the uk.. you're really just a second class american citizen anyways. :nyanya:
Hahaha :)

Tony Blair is such an articulate speaker it's a lot of fun to listen to him.

You won't hear Blair saying something along the lines of: "Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice.... You can't get fooled again."

[sarah_webinc]

Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 18 2003, 11:56 AM


If you're from the uk.. you're really just a second class american citizen anyways. :nyanya:
What about those of us that are American citizens AND live in the UK ?

[PornoDoggy]

Blair is articulate, particularly for a lapdog. However, with debate skills honed in Parliament, most PMs are more articulate than American Presidents are.

I must say I laughed out loud over the comparison to Churchill; while the comparison is not quite as absurd as comparing Bush to Roosevelt (either), it's still a great stretch.

Maybe if Roosevelt and Churchill had decided to invade Franco's Spain in response to attacks by the Axis, I could understand those comparisons.

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by KC@Jul 18 2003, 03:21 PM

You won't hear Blair saying something along the lines of: "Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice.... You can't get fooled again."
hhahaha that is classic
can't believe i this hasnt been made more fun of

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by =^..^=@Jul 18 2003, 07:39 AM
for a country living under british Rule - autralia really doesnt give him any air time
we get Bush nonstop though

AUSTRALIA has been urged to seriously consider becoming the 51st state of the US.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...255E421,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6760977%255E421,00.html)


funny how US media has yet to mention this.

[=^..^=]

I read this article
i dont see australians embracing it any time soon
especially the older generations (and within the next 5 years 20% of the population of OZ will be over 60)

the oldies here are monarchists
the middle aged are a mix if monarchists and republicans

i think the majority of ppl wanting to become a US state would be under 25 - and believe it will make Australai like hollywood.

Sure there would be a LOT of benefits to becoming part of the US
but there are more reasons not too
the first big reason:

we're situated within Asia
our closest neighbouring country is made up of 60million + muslims
- talk to anyone living in the far far north of australia and they'll tell you about the "armys" that are bing formed ready for an invasion
Nobody in Australia wants to piss Indonesia off
there's a lot of Anti US sentiment amongst Muslim communties right now - and in Indonesia this is very evident from the Bali Bombings
if Australia were the 51st state - we'd be even more of a target

Right now people in the city I live in are in fear that the US will go to war with North Korea and that Australia will be involved.
If that happens - this city is the first on the Nuke List in Australia because we are a US naval port - and a strategic port of US operations within Asia and the Pacific
Australian soldiers in recent times have always acted as peace keepers under UN direction
this is what the public wanted during Iraq - the majority of the public were against Australia playing an active role in the attacks

I see more Australians calling for a rebulic in light of the recent events in Iraq and the possibilites of wars closer to home in near future.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by slavdogg+Jul 18 2003, 05:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Jul 18 2003, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--=^..^=@Jul 18 2003, 07:39 AM
for a country living under british Rule - autralia really doesnt give him any air time
we get Bush nonstop though

AUSTRALIA has been urged to seriously consider becoming the 51st state of the US.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...255E421,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6760977%255E421,00.html)


funny how US media has yet to mention this.[/b][/quote]
I'll keep my bet with Puerto Rico.

[KC]

50 is such a nice round number though.

we can't have 51 stars on our flag!

[Hooper]

I think we could afford to add a few states yes keep the 50 stars. it'd be easy.

1. Get rid of new mexico. Nothing much there anyways.
2. North Dakota + South Dakota become just "Dakota"... is there really some kind of major division between the northern dakotans and souther dakotans????
3. Oklahoma. Does anybody really need it? Naah. Just give it to Kansas so that they have somewhere else to keep cattle.

I think that pretty much does it. Then we can go ahead and add the uk, australia and officially add puerto rico.

[Hooper]

Anybody else notice the ARS banner up above? Advertising Revenue Service ?

[PornoDoggy]

I dunno, Hooper ... the Oklahoma aspect of your suggestion could get the Kansas and Texas National Guards fighting over it ...

the loser would have to keep it.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Jul 18 2003, 11:12 PM

[JR]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 18 2003, 02:26 PM
Blair is articulate, particularly for a lapdog. However, with debate skills honed in Parliament, most PMs are more articulate than American Presidents are.

I must say I laughed out loud over the comparison to Churchill; while the comparison is not quite as absurd as comparing Bush to Roosevelt (either), it's still a great stretch.

Maybe if Roosevelt and Churchill had decided to invade Franco's Spain in response to attacks by the Axis, I could understand those comparisons.
whether he has his nose up Bush's ass or not does not change the fact that he is a very compelling and articulate speaker. ... it just makes you feel better to make those remarks so i will leave it alone.

i just read Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism by Ann Coulter.

i bet you would not laugh out loud if you read that book. you would be breaking furniture.

[PornoDoggy]

I don't disagree that Blair is very articulate. I think the comparisson to Churchill is ridiculous, that's all.

Actually, I would be laughing out loud if I were to waste my time reading it - although I doubt that there is much original in it. Phyllis Schafly, among others, has been beating on that drum since shortly after she ghost-wrote Barry Goldwater's campaign book in '62 or '63.

Well, I'll have to qualify the laughing out loud with a certain sadness that the state of political debate in this country has degenerated to the point where that kind of mindless garbage has become acceptable in mainstream dialouge. Probably has come about because of floridation in the water ... :rolleyes:

[JR]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 18 2003, 11:26 PM
I don't disagree that Blair is very articulate. I think the comparisson to Churchill is ridiculous, that's all.

but why? Churchill is one of my greatest idols of all time. i have most of his best speeches on audio and listen to them quite a bit.

why is it a rediculous comparison?

i watch European news all the time. i watch British Parliment all the time because its usually pretty comical and often like sketch comedy. it takes a quick wit, a sharp tounge and excellent speaking skills to stand in British Parliment and be attacked from every angle by experienced politicians with the manners of drunk college kids.

[sarah_webinc]

Churchill was a great war time leader but when it came to domestics he got kicked out. Maybe that is the way in which they are being compared.

[slavdogg]

we do need the 51 state
California should be split
Northern Cali and Southern

[Torone]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 19 2003, 02:26 AM
Well, I'll have to qualify the laughing out loud with a certain sadness that the state of political debate in this country has degenerated to the point where that kind of mindless garbage has become acceptable in mainstream dialouge. Probably has come about because of floridation in the water ... :rolleyes:
We know, PD...If it wasn't written by a Clinton (or Marx), it's mindless drivel.

For the time being, consider this as a finger smilie... :nyanya:

I do believe that the flouride has caused problems, though.

[PornoDoggy]

It doesn't have to be written by a Clinton or a Marx, Torone ...

In this case I am dismissing Ms. Coulter as mindless drivel in that there is nothing new there - it's the same happy horseshit that the extreme right has been spewing since before the Korean War.

The main difference between you and Ann is that she has slightly updated her rhetoric...

[JR]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 19 2003, 07:13 AM


In this case I am dismissing Ms. Coulter as mindless drivel in that there is nothing new there
is it the same type of mindless drivel as A Living History?

it cant be "extreme right" if it is topping best seller lists and #7 on Amazon compared to Hillarys #19.

that sounds more like mainstream to me.

[Vick]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 19 2003, 10:13 AM
The main difference between you and Ann is that she has slightly updated her rhetoric...
PD - we disagree again

The main difference is given the opportunity I'd have sex with Ann but not with Torone


:groucho:

[Torone]

Originally posted by Vick+Jul 19 2003, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Jul 19 2003, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Jul 19 2003, 10:13 AM
The main difference between you and Ann is that she has slightly updated her rhetoric...
PD - we disagree again

The main difference is given the opportunity I'd have sex with Ann but not with Torone


:groucho:[/b][/quote]
You're damned right, unless your real name is Vicki or Victoria, etc... :agrin:

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by JR+Jul 19 2003, 11:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Jul 19 2003, 11:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Jul 19 2003, 07:13 AM


In this case I am dismissing Ms. Coulter as mindless drivel in that there is nothing new there
is it the same type of mindless drivel as A Living History?

it cant be "extreme right" if it is topping best seller lists and #7 on Amazon compared to Hillarys #19.

that sounds more like mainstream to me.[/b][/quote]
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not going to defend Hillary's book - I put First Lady memoirs in the same category as butler memoirs, driver memoirs, and memoirs by the cook for ... I would also note that the "biography" of a horse that's been dead for 60+ years is ranked higher on Amazon than either book you mentioned - which must say something about something ... :o

I repeat what I said before - it's unfortunate that things have degenerated to the point where the likes of Coulter are regarded as mainstream.

What's REALLY got me pissed off is now I gotta go down to the library and get the *&^%$# book - I could use a good laugh (and some new office furniture). :D (that's the right-wing bitch's book, not the other)

And one last try on the Churchill comparison - NOBODY living is "on par with Churchill". I don't happen to have any audio of his, but I never miss an opportunity to listen to him, and have read a great deal of his written works. Blair is good - I believe I said earlier that PMs tend to be better than American Presidents because of thier experience as/dealing with MPs - but you can't go straight from AA ball to the Hall of Fame.

BTW - I used to live about 30 miles from Fulton, Missouri, where he made his "Iron Curtain" speech. My children - who are now adults - can still get that glazed look of boredom in their eyes from the times I forced them to endure the memorial, etc.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Vick+Jul 19 2003, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Jul 19 2003, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Jul 19 2003, 10:13 AM
The main difference between you and Ann is that she has slightly updated her rhetoric...
PD - we disagree again

The main difference is given the opportunity I'd have sex with Ann but not with Torone


:groucho:[/b][/quote]
Very valid point.

[Almighty Colin]

Ann Coulter. Can't say I'm interested in reading her book, I've never heard her speak, and I read two paragraphs of an article she wrote before I go bored. JR did tell me a great quote from her book though; "Journalists write the first draft of history". :okthumb:

It's pretty easy for most of us when thinking of any political organization to think of a long list of things you disagree on, whether that organization is The United States, the Democrats, the Republicans, the EU, Australia, Canada, or France. It's pretty simple also to think of a list of errors made by any of those groups.

Some people seem to get stuck in that mode. As long as political organizations have millions of adherents there sure is never going to be a shortage of lunacy to keep that approach fueled.

With admittedly very limited experience with Ann Coulter's works, whether verbal or written, it seems she is of the type that has chosen a particular position (American conservative) and pretty much gone all the way with "this is what is wrong with them" and never taking a breath to ask "what is wrong with us"?

From the two paragraphs I read she writes very well.

The fact that anyone can say SOMETHING bad about any political leader or party - and if you can't you're showing a lack of imagination - says something more to the effect that people are not perfect than anything else.

Yup, yet another "why I think party politics sucks post" ;-)