Payouts Will Be Lowered

[Marc De]

There are many factors involved in programs paying the high rate per sign up they do now. These factors include

$39.99 monthly charges
2 FREE cross sells per page rebilling at $30 to $40 / mo

there are other factors as well but its these factors in specific I would like to address.

Chargebacks occur for a number of reasons but a lot have to do with very high monthly charges. Obviously these prices bring in more money which allows a much higher payout.

In an effort to reduce chargebacks, free cross sells will become single micro $1 payments that rebill at a much lesser rate. Much more importantly monthly rates must drop from the rate of $39.99 to $29.99

Obviously this will drastically hit the top of line of many sponsors (those who choose to take the path of 'correcting' some of the problems in the industry. Because of this cut in revenue payouts of $35 and $40 per trial will no longer exist (again for that group of sponsors who attempt to make the proper changes)

Payout will drop below the $30 range. Also FREE trials (which ARS recently began offering) will no longer exist. These changes will take place in the coming days.

Webmasters use this post as for warning of things to come.

Sponsors use this post as a support for you to follow the necessary trends to correct an escalating problem over the last few years. Its time to fall in line or its time to fall out!

[TheEnforcer]

Well, this thread should become very lively in no time at all!! :blink:

Should be an interesting discussion.

[*KK*]

Excellent post Marc.

[Mike AI]

From LAMike on GFY...

Due to the new Visa regulations we are forced to make some changes to keep ourselves in line with these new regs and still make a profit to not only insure our longevity but the longevity of the industy as a whole.

In the past as I'm sure most of you know we were aloud to have a 2.5 percent chargeback ratio that has now been changed to 1 percent begining october 1st.

Epoch has in turn made some new regulations that we must follow to and make changes on our end. We will now only be offering 1 easy click on our join pages and there will no longer be free ezclick joins. Not only this but the joins can be charged a maximum of $20 per month.

In order to help reduce chagebacks there will be less opportunities for cross sales and we will lower the monthly charge of $39.28 to our members to $29.28. This change will also have to be passed down in order to conduct some sort of profit.

Silvercash will be lowering payouts within the next week to $25 per join and $30 per join for those sending over a certain amount per period.

Its a time of change and the biggest change this industry has seen to date. I'm sure that other programs will follow as there isnt much alternative

[BradShaw]

Marc, I agree. Frees are gone, because they do not count as a transaction toward the 1%. Going to see alot more $1 trials. #'s game that can be managed, but going to be tough and some will not make it for sure.

$30 seems to be where people think trials will settle, I am still running #'s. Will also be interesting to see where CCBILL and Jettis stand on these issues and they will soon follow epochs lead and announce changes.

[Peaches]

As a webmaster, I certainly don't want to see lower payouts, but as a mortgage holder, I'd rather take lower payouts for a longer period time. Longevity is a good thing. :awinky:

Good posts from Marc and LAMike.

[Mike AI]

Free trials have always been a bad idea. They have been abused, as well as the cross sales. We have brought this upon ourselves.

I am very EXCITED about these changes.

One reason PureCash has not launched on time was due to the changes that were coming down. We wanted to make sure that we have the right business model built in, and not try to build on the old model that is being put to sleep.

I think in the long run this will make the industry much more stable. We have enjoyed a drunken orgy of $45 payouts on free trials... reality looks like it is finally setting in.

[Nickatilynx]

Question for you guys.....

Having bought
http://www.firmcontent.com

It may be a moronic idea,But what about offering cds or dvds at like 1or 2 bucks to members?

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2003, 01:32 PM
Question for you guys.....

Having bought
http://www.firmcontent.com

It may be a moronic idea,But what about offering cds or dvds at like 1or 2 bucks to members?
Shipping porn is opening another can of worms.

[Mike AI]

Nick I was thinking about something similair, but not shipping porn.

Selling something else that is nominal, hat, t-shirt, whatever and with every purchase get a few id/password to a website.

You could do re-occuring and send out new t-shirt, hat, every month.

[Nickatilynx]

Oh yeah.(leenogas zip codes etc)

Sorry about that.It was just a mind fart.

:agrin:

[Nickatilynx]

Selling something else that is nominal, hat, t-shirt, whatever and with every purchase get a few id/password to a website.

You could do re-occuring and send out new t-shirt, hat, every month.





Nice one. :)

Some light entertainment.....
http://www.ntv.co.jp/channel/kasoh/kin10.html





Last edited by Nickatilynx at Jul 10 2003, 05:00 PM

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 04:54 PM
Nick I was thinking about something similair, but not shipping porn.

Selling something else that is nominal, hat, t-shirt, whatever and with every purchase get a few id/password to a website.

You could do re-occuring and send out new t-shirt, hat, every month.
Or maybe even travel certs?

I have a friend who's getting out of the telemarketing biz who used to offer travel certs as promo incentives.

The travel agencies he worked with practically gave them away to him.

Very low acquisition cost and could be some intersting upsells. (Anyone here a travel agency? ;-))

I know we used to give away Hawaii certs and the owners of the company got kickbacks from travel agents, who in turn got kickbacks from certain hotels and so on.....

[slavdogg]

what about the free airline tickets that Brad and others used to give away.
how well did that work ???

[BradShaw]

I also think dialers are going to play a larger future in this business than alot of people think.


Lets also not forget checks.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 05:54 PM
Selling something else that is nominal, hat, t-shirt, whatever and with every purchase get a few id/password to a website.
Something like voicemail?

http://www.nationwidevoice.com

:awinky:

Lets also not forget checks.

Something like ACH Debit?

http://www.achdebit.com

(I'm such a little salesperson.....)

[dantheman]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 10 2003, 05:15 PM
I also think dialers are going to play a larger future in this business than alot of people think.


Lets also not forget checks.
So true :wnw: If anyone wants to talk about a dialer solution with great rates let me know :)


:cdance: just feel like dancing :cdance:

[Forest]

this could be verry good for live feed sites that can stay below the 1% cb

More money for the surfer to spend on the live girls



Last edited by Forest at Jul 10 2003, 05:50 PM

[wig]

Originally posted by Peaches+Jul 10 2003, 05:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Jul 10 2003, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 05:54 PM
Selling something else that is nominal, hat, t-shirt, whatever and with every purchase get a few id/password to a website.
Something like voicemail?

http://www.nationwidevoice.com

:awinky:

Lets also not forget checks.

Something like ACH Debit?

http://www.achdebit.com

(I'm such a little salesperson.....)[/b][/quote]
Peaches, but most importantly you are a good friend and neighbor!

Thanks! :okthumb:

[BradShaw]

I think on of the first thing we are going to do when the dust settles is look into pushing checks more, checks with cross sells, etc....

Can't imagine a live feed, billed per min. staying under 1%. That should be interesting as well.

[Sabby]

Originally posted by Forest@Jul 10 2003, 05:49 PM
this could be verry good for live feed sites that can stay below the 1% cb

More money for the surfer to spend on the live girls
Hey that sound GREAT to me! I sold a 3 HOUR long prvt a couple weeks ago! $539.85 that guy paid! woohoo!

Sabby:)

[wig]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 10 2003, 06:11 PM
I think on of the first thing we are going to do when the dust settles is look into pushing checks more, checks with cross sells, etc....

Can't imagine a live feed, billed per min. staying under 1%. That should be interesting as well.
Brad, please feel free to contact Bill or myself if you want to discuss this in more depth. :)

I know Jim and Charles have a good working relationship as well.

[Forest]

interclimax stays below 1%

sabby,

sterling get privates like that once in a while

Got to LOVE the blue guys!!!!!!!!!!!
:wnw: :rokk: :okthumb:

[Sabby]

This particular guy was a 900 user - charged to his phone - not cc. Even better!

Sabby:)

[Forest]

Originally posted by Sabby@Jul 10 2003, 06:32 PM
This particular guy was a 900 user - charged to his phone - not cc. Even better!

Sabby:)
sabby

c and the gang are awesome at billing solutions

good for us and our webmasters Huh

:wnw:

[Sabby]

Oh hell yeah. I closed my personal site months ago. They get me AND all my traffic now too :)


Sabby:)

[Forest]

Originally posted by Sabby@Jul 10 2003, 06:50 PM
Oh hell yeah. I closed my personal site months ago. They get me AND all my traffic now too :)


Sabby:)
naked AND smart

Good Combo!!!

[Platinum Dave]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 10 2003, 02:15 PM
I also think dialers are going to play a larger future in this business than alot of people think.


Lets also not forget checks.
Brad checks I agree with but dialers have there own can of worms they are covering from the rest of us.

[Platinum Dave]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 10 2003, 03:11 PM
I think on of the first thing we are going to do when the dust settles is look into pushing checks more, checks with cross sells, etc....

Can't imagine a live feed, billed per min. staying under 1%. That should be interesting as well.
Brad you do know that like 30-50% of checks bounce.

So much fraud in checks makes credit cards look like like a sweet option.

next option? dialers? ya charging the surfer $1.99-$4.99 a minute is gonna last long term.

[Platinum Dave]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 01:26 PM
Free trials have always been a bad idea. They have been abused, as well as the cross sales. We have brought this upon ourselves.

I am very EXCITED about these changes.

One reason PureCash has not launched on time was due to the changes that were coming down. We wanted to make sure that we have the right business model built in, and not try to build on the old model that is being put to sleep.

I think in the long run this will make the industry much more stable. We have enjoyed a drunken orgy of $45 payouts on free trials... reality looks like it is finally setting in.
Free Trials made everyone more money to be able to pay for the new options webmasters get to have now

- Free Host
- Free hosted content
- $35-50 a signup
- etc.

cross sells to a user is not that bad 3-7 days free to check out two more sites, if you know what your doing as a surfer this is actually a sweet bonus.

The problem was that 50% of them never knew they were accepting the cross sell, thus few months later the C word comes.

[cj]

oooh ya make me feel like dancin YEEEAAAH
:bdance: :bwave: :bjump: :cdance:

big kudos to marc & mike for having the balls to be the first to make this much needed move. :okthumb: :okthumb: :okthumb:

mark this day in the calendar folks!!!

[Forest]

Originally posted by Platinum Dave@Jul 10 2003, 08:22 PM
next option? dialers? ya charging the surfer $1.99-$4.99 a minute is gonna last long term.
It does with live feed

but much different with pay sites

[XXXManager]

Yes. No free trial payments is "very good" for the industry ;) (oh - and also some good for the sponsors). hehe
While we are at it - do you think this change will come along with the end of shaving? :rolleyes: :unsure: (not directed at anyone specific - just as a general "myth" in the industry ;) )
While we are at it, lets make webmasters pay for free hosting, and surfers pay for TGP access :agrin:

seriously now, exogenous changes to the industry forcefuly requires changes at the sponsor side - granted. But I am sure sponsors will have to "play" some more with the figures before they bravely announce $30->$1 per trial. Webmasters won't like loosing 20-80% of their income and might look for an uneducated and brave high-paying sponsor which will exist for sure (as to how long - I can't tell). This is unless sponsors will accidentaly be aligned about this change as the credit-cards companies are accidently synchronized when changing rates and regulations :rolleyes:



Last edited by XXXManager at Jul 11 2003, 01:58 AM

[Hooper]

Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

[slavdogg]

who's gonna be the first one to remove popunders and let webmasters make more sales ???

[Monk]

Looks like there may be a major redistribution of traffic coming..... especially for programs see this as an opportunity to squeeze a little more out of its webmasters.

[Mike AI]

Free Trials made everyone more money to be able to pay for the new options webmasters get to have now

- Free Host
- Free hosted content
- $35-50 a signup
- etc.

Dave I agree with this, however I think most of these things hurt the industry. We as an industry raised a bunch of whiny, over demanding webmasters who think they are owed all of this. It is time that they go back to doing their own work, getting their own hosts, etc...

:D

[Marc De]

Slavik - we could remove our small pop under console but it won't make you any more sales. We tested that long ago before we put it up. In fact, at the end of the day it was worth MORE sales to the webmasters :)

Better yet, its even less of an issue today with AOL doing almost a PERFECT job to stopping pop ups (as well as google bar and Earthlink).

Monk - this isn't programs trying to 'squeeze' more from its webmasters. Christ, what if I told you programs profit 50% less now than they did 18 months ago and have sat around eating that lost profit. Webmasters have been grossly overpaid for quite sometime now.

Anyways, payout drops are NOT about making 'more money' for the programs themselves, it is used to deflect a decrease in monthly charges (which has been MUCH needed for a while now) from $39.99 to $29.99

Our payout rates will drop 20% or less while our monthly rate will drop 25% Whose 'pay day' is really getting hit here?

[Marc De]

Another peice of info - per minute live feed sites truthfully have a zero issue with chargebacks (obviously proper operating conditions must apply). In fact I think a pay as you use paysite product is just the answer we need. *bulb goes off over my head* Oh wait, gimme a couple weeks, thank goodness we've already been in production of this.

[Mike AI]

Monk - this isn't programs trying to 'squeeze' more from its webmasters. Christ, what if I told you programs profit 50% less now than they did 18 months ago and have sat around eating that lost profit. Webmasters have been grossly overpaid for quite sometime now.

AMEN!!!

:rokk: :rokk: :rokk:

[Toolz]

Originally posted by Platinum Dave+Jul 10 2003, 05:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Platinum Dave @ Jul 10 2003, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--BradShaw@Jul 10 2003, 03:11 PM
I think on of the first thing we are going to do when the dust settles is look into pushing checks more, checks with cross sells, etc....

Can't imagine a live feed, billed per min. staying under 1%. That should be interesting as well.
Brad you do know that like 30-50% of checks bounce.

So much fraud in checks makes credit cards look like like a sweet option.

next option? dialers? ya charging the surfer $1.99-$4.99 a minute is gonna last long term.[/b][/quote]
Dave,

Don't shit on a brother on his new venture, most new dialer programs are much more in-line with accurate per-minute charges, with the highest countires topping out at less than $2.00 per minute. Micro-processing (dialer more commonly known) is definetly the wave of the future, and it doesn't rule out broadband either. The ability to charge surfers for what they access makes it very hard to chargeback, and micro-processing is one thing that solves this problem.

[Monk]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 10:11 PM
Monk - this isn't programs trying to 'squeeze' more from its webmasters. Christ, what if I told you programs profit 50% less now than they did 18 months ago and have sat around eating that lost profit. Webmasters have been grossly overpaid for quite sometime now.

AMEN!!!

:rokk: :rokk: :rokk:
I wasn't commenting on ALL sponsors... just that SOME may see it as an opportunity to squeeze extra margin out of their webmasters under the cover of the recent changes.... and that those programs would likely feel the result of that with a smaller portion of the traffic pie than they had before.

[Bestat]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 06:57 PM
Free Trials made everyone more money to be able to pay for the new options webmasters get to have now

- Free Host
- Free hosted content
- $35-50 a signup
- etc.

Dave I agree with this, however I think most of these things hurt the industry. We as an industry raised a bunch of whiny, over demanding webmasters who think they are owed all of this. It is time that they go back to doing their own work, getting their own hosts, etc...

:D
I could not agree more!

B)

[Diamond Jim]

Originally posted by Toolz+Jul 10 2003, 10:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Toolz @ Jul 10 2003, 10:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Platinum Dave@Jul 10 2003, 05:22 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--BradShaw@Jul 10 2003, 03:11 PM
I think on of the first thing we are going to do when the dust settles is look into pushing checks more, checks with cross sells, etc....

Can't imagine a live feed, billed per min. staying under 1%. That should be interesting as well.
Brad you do know that like 30-50% of checks bounce.

So much fraud in checks makes credit cards look like like a sweet option.

next option? dialers? ya charging the surfer $1.99-$4.99 a minute is gonna last long term.
Dave,

Don't shit on a brother on his new venture, most new dialer programs are much more in-line with accurate per-minute charges, with the highest countires topping out at less than $2.00 per minute. Micro-processing (dialer more commonly known) is definetly the wave of the future, and it doesn't rule out broadband either. The ability to charge surfers for what they access makes it very hard to chargeback, and micro-processing is one thing that solves this problem.[/b][/quote]
There are those who never took advantage of free trials with their long-term recurring traffic.....that traffic won't see what they were missing...no disadvantage....

And there are those who never took advantage of dialers....

To those happy folks....this could be an interesting time....

Either way....it should be fascinating.... :ph34r:

Darwin... 'nuff said....

Nice to see some balls on the plate out here.....very manly...

[Winetalk.com]

in the game we call "internet adult entertaintment business"
the one who dies last - wins
;-)

[Forest]

The more i think aboout it the better this becomes for quality live feed companies

our payouts should stay the same, the webmasters make the same money with us, and our customers have more money to burn on the per minute feeds

Looks good all around for us!!!

:agrin:

[Forest]

Originally posted by Marc De@Jul 10 2003, 10:11 PM
Another peice of info - per minute live feed sites truthfully have a zero issue with chargebacks (obviously proper operating conditions must apply). In fact I think a pay as you use paysite product is just the answer we need. *bulb goes off over my head* Oh wait, gimme a couple weeks, thank goodness we've already been in production of this.
why am I not surprised marc

You are truly an industry innovator



Last edited by Forest at Jul 11 2003, 05:33 AM

[Sabby]

Originally posted by Forest@Jul 11 2003, 05:30 AM
The more i think aboout it the better this becomes for quality live feed companies

our payouts should stay the same, the webmasters make the same money with us, and our customers have more money to burn on the per minute feeds

Looks good all around for us!!!

:agrin:
Forest, I had a guy say this the other night in my chat:

"Oh, why did SHE have to be on tonight? I could have just spanked it to porn"

hahaha

Sabby:)

[Forest]

Originally posted by Sabby+Jul 11 2003, 05:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sabby @ Jul 11 2003, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Forest@Jul 11 2003, 05:30 AM
The more i think aboout it the better this becomes for quality live feed companies

our payouts should stay the same, the webmasters make the same money with us, and our customers have more money to burn on the per minute feeds

Looks good all around for us!!!

:agrin:
Forest, I had a guy say this the other night in my chat:

"Oh, why did SHE have to be on tonight? I could have just spanked it to porn"

hahaha

Sabby:)[/b][/quote]
sabby

the BEST part of live feed is that it is truely On demand

U cant get THAT specific content anywhere esle but with that girl

and soo many guys get hooked emotionaly to you girls send you gifts, money, ect. ect.

Emotions then play a part with our sales where with paysites and video its strcitly a physical need

emotions keep them comming back gain and again

I cant tell you how many customers my girls have that take them private for an hour and NEVER ask them to take a peice of clothing off

They just sit and chat about their day, dreams, love,

and the gifts they buy from the online store. $200 perfume, $175 breakfast in bed, $100 worth of toys

GOD BLESS LIVE FEEDS and guys in LOVE!!!!

:inlove: :rokk:

[Sabby]

Hey how come I never get those guys that just want to chat?


Sabby:)

[Forest]

Originally posted by Sabby@Jul 11 2003, 06:21 AM
Hey how come I never get those guys that just want to chat?


Sabby:)
cause your too fucking HOT!!!

:P :wnw:

[Sabby]

I get all the really WEIRD ones.

Sabby:)

[Forest]

Originally posted by Sabby@Jul 11 2003, 06:33 AM
I get all the really WEIRD ones.

Sabby:)
sweety you know why right?

cause you will do just about anything!!!!!
:rokk: :wnw: :rokk:

you make sooo much more than the average model on that site for that verry reason

wish you worked for me

LOL

[Sabby]

My favorite is the small penis guy that comes in all the time and just wants me to make fun of him and laugh at his tiny little dick.

Me and him have a GREAT time together!!!

Sabby:)

[Opti]

Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM
Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

I commend them all too...

Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please? :matey:

[Monk]

Originally posted by Opti+Jul 11 2003, 06:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Opti @ Jul 11 2003, 06:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM
Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

I commend them all too...

Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please? :matey:[/b][/quote]
:okthumb:

[Toolz]

Originally posted by Opti+Jul 11 2003, 03:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Opti @ Jul 11 2003, 03:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM
Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

I commend them all too...

Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please? :matey:[/b][/quote]
Not sure that this is much help to the problem. Basically what's gonna happen is the last ones holding their payouts up high will be the first ones to be but on the Visa TMF list. Once this happens whatever higher % you were making weather it be 10-15% more with them you can kiss goodbye as they'll be out of biz.

Don't view the drop in credit card processor payments as a bad thing, programs will continue to innovate and find ways to put more money in your pocket and their pocket, just expect the days of $40 payouts to go bye bye, if the top dogs in the industry are at 28-30 I'd be suprised as I expect this number to be closer to 23-$26 per credit card signup realistically. Will there still be people at $40 per signup? Yeah probably, but I don't trust em with my money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Opti]

hehe if for nothing else, you gotta love FM for seeing an opportunity

A major processor today announced that they are stopping Free Trials. The good news is CECash is not stopping Free Trials.

Many large affiliate programs out there have announced they are lowering their Webmaster payouts, the good news is CECash is not lowering their Webmaster payouts!

CECASH will continue their Free Trial Sign Ups. Free Trial Sign Ups have never been a problem when theye handled with the proper disclosure. CECASH has always used the proper disclosure and their chargeback rates are right in line with the current new processing parameters.

Here is a little explanation of why Free Trials elpkeep chargebacks down when properly disclosed.

If you have 100 Free Trial sign ups, 60 percent cancel, you only put 40 percent of monthly members thru the banking system, or 40 transactions.

If you have 100 Paid Trial sign ups, 60 percent cancel, you process at total of 140 percent of transactions for trials and monthly members thru the banking system, or 140 transactions.

That 78 percent more transactions for paid trials than free trials put thru the banking system in a given month. This highly increases your exposure for chargebacks from the bank.

Another reason that CECash does not have a chargeback problem is because their are real cancel links in all members sections which make it very easy to cancel a membership, this has always been like this.

CECASH will not reduce their payouts.

~~ some snipped ~~

Peace Out!

fm

[Monk]

How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.

[Opti]

Originally posted by Monk@Jul 12 2003, 12:04 AM
How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.
And there is a lot of webmasters with lots of "infa-structure" built around free pass signups..

Wonder who wants this business .. and thinks they can stay in biz :-)

(damn was it only less than 12 months ago we were copping $70 a free trial signup???)

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 05:26 PM
Free trials have always been a bad idea. They have been abused, as well as the cross sales. We have brought this upon ourselves.

I am very EXCITED about these changes.

One reason PureCash has not launched on time was due to the changes that were coming down. We wanted to make sure that we have the right business model built in, and not try to build on the old model that is being put to sleep.

I think in the long run this will make the industry much more stable. We have enjoyed a drunken orgy of $45 payouts on free trials... reality looks like it is finally setting in.
For once I agree 100% with you Mike. FINALLY we are seeing per-signup payouts going down instead of up. It's going to force everyone to play on a fair level with everyone else. Shadiness is about to get a little sunlight.

Revshare programs are about to see more money in their pockets too.

[Mike AI]

Will there still be people at $40 per signup? Yeah probably, but I don't trust em with my money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


People will still offer $40 - $45 sales... and they will prance around, an say look at me, I am a player and paying out this much....

I have one word that sums this up: GILETTE!

The sad this is many webmasters will fall for it.

How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.

This is the bullshit they will feed people like Monk, and claim to be paying him $40 cause they have innovated new income streams, yadda, yadda, but what that really will be doing is realying on the Mach III - and there will be webmasters who will just smile, and post praises of these people....

Will be funny to watch..... Webmasters will want to relive the glory days, the drunken orgy where it was a free for all.... Those days are over. It is time for everyone to sober up, and realize the industry will not last to long if we keep shafting the surfer ( our customer).

[Toolz]

Originally posted by Monk@Jul 11 2003, 06:04 AM
How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.
Gimme two weeks, it's almost done :)

[Mike AI]

Evil Chris, I have been waiting for this day to come for almost 7 years now... I had originally hoped and an industry we would figure out we have to grow up and stop playing games. Stop cramming surfers credit cards, stop slamming them on dialers, stop misleading customers....

But it never happened, thus VISA had to step in....

The cockholsters are going to hopefully reform, or be put out of business!!!

This is a new dawn for this industry.... and I am EXTREMELY excited!!

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 11 2003, 10:38 AM
Evil Chris, I have been waiting for this day to come for almost 7 years now... I had originally hoped and an industry we would figure out we have to grow up and stop playing games. Stop cramming surfers credit cards, stop slamming them on dialers, stop misleading customers....

But it never happened, thus VISA had to step in....

The cockholsters are going to hopefully reform, or be put out of business!!!

This is a new dawn for this industry.... and I am EXTREMELY excited!!
Word playa! :P

[Monk]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 11 2003, 09:33 AM
This is the bullshit they will feed people like Monk, and claim to be paying him $40 cause they have innovated new income streams, yadda, yadda, but what that really will be doing is realying on the Mach III - and there will be webmasters who will just smile, and post praises of these people....

MikeAI,

It will be obvious if new billing solutions are implemented or not.

Also, I send my traffic where it makes the most money. PERIOD. Wherever, my traffic garners the biggest cheque is where it will end up.

I don't have to decide whether I should believe one sponsor's bullshit about why they don't have to reduce payout rates or another sponsr's bullshit about why they do.

[Monk]

Originally posted by Toolz+Jul 11 2003, 09:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Toolz @ Jul 11 2003, 09:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Monk@Jul 11 2003, 06:04 AM
How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.
Gimme two weeks, it's almost done :)[/b][/quote]
SEE!! Now there's a guy making lemonade with his lemons!!

[el pres]

I've been looking into pay per download, billed via SMS,
this seems to be working well for some people.

Finally managed to get nearly the whole of Europe covered.

[Mike AI]

Also, I send my traffic where it makes the most money. PERIOD. Wherever, my traffic garners the biggest cheque is where it will end up.


Of course Monk, and you have enough experience to track this and really know what each click is making. However, there are many webmasters who will see $45 a signup and will rush over and send traffic. Shaving has become a pretty sophisticated science....

[Monk]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 11 2003, 09:52 AM
Of course Monk, and you have enough experience to track this and really know what each click is making. However, there are many webmasters who will see $45 a signup and will rush over and send traffic. Shaving has become a pretty sophisticated science....
"This is the bullshit they will feed people like Monk"


Forgive me for my confusion. :stout:

[Mike AI]

HAHA No confusion Monk.... they will feed it to you, its up to you to beleive it or not. I would like to think you have been around the block enough, you know what is hype, and what is reality....

But if you are clammering for people to innovate, and keep payouts high, you will be the prime target of the bullshit.

It is still early in the morning for me, so I may not be being as suscint as I normally am! <_<

[Opti]

Is there such a beast as a dialer system to make a one off charge rather than timed based?

ie: ring this number and type the code you hear into this login box.. and the surfer is charged $29.99 for the month?

I thought Aga was doing something like this?

[el pres]

Originally posted by Opti@Jul 11 2003, 09:59 AM
Is there such a beast as a dialer system to make a one off charge rather than timed based?

ie: ring this number and type the code you hear into this login box.. and the surfer is charged $29.99 for the month?

I thought Aga was doing something like this?
You've got 1 off monthly charges for the US and Germany.

With countries that use SMS you can make someone send multiple messages to the value of whatever you want, ARS does it with UK traffic for a daily trial, you have to send 3 SMS messages.

[Opti]

Originally posted by el pres@Jul 12 2003, 01:04 AM
With countries that use SMS you can make someone send multiple messages to the value of whatever you want, ARS does it with UK traffic for a daily trial, you have to send 3 SMS messages.
SMS type billing sounds like the credit card companies biggest potential competitor for online business.

Having to send 3 messages isn't quite "there" yet though :\

One issue I don't really understand with dialers/sms is that they provide a way to bill but don't have the built in "age verification" of a CC..

[Hooper]

I dont think this is a big bright shiny day for revshare programs as some people think.

Webmasters like things to be simple and revshare just isnt as simple as knowing that you earn x number of dollars for each new customer you send.

I do think that membres areas will see a significant improvement however.

[Hooper]

sms is such a cool feature but right now imho it's still in it's infancy. I can only bill a buck at a time (or a pound or euro or whatever that is) which to me is hardly worth it.

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 11:18 AM
I dont think this is a big bright shiny day for revshare programs as some people think.

Webmasters like things to be simple and revshare just isnt as simple as knowing that you earn x number of dollars for each new customer you send.

I do think that membres areas will see a significant improvement however.
You know what's simple? How I receive my CCBill cheque weekly without fail from all of the collective revshare programs I send to.

I check the numbers a couple times a month, and have yet to find a significant problem. I do believe it is a good thing for revshare programs.

[el pres]

Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 10:19 AM
sms is such a cool feature but right now imho it's still in it's infancy. I can only bill a buck at a time (or a pound or euro or whatever that is) which to me is hardly worth it.
Hooper,

With Aga's system you can multi message bill, not sure if there's a limit.


It's opening up a new market to you though, alot of Euro and Asian countries that can't/won't use CC's and dialers.

You can use it to bill a pay per view system, easiest way to target different languages aswell.
No need for billing/member support as its a one time download fee.

[Kacy]

I never thought the day would come either EvilChris, but I also agree with MikeAI's thoughts and opinions on all of this
:biglaugh:

As I kept reading these posts, I was saying "Why do I keep agreeing with Mike? Weird"

Deep down I guess I always knew he was right hehe :)

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by Evil Chris+Jul 11 2003, 06:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Evil Chris @ Jul 11 2003, 06:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 05:26 PM
Free trials have always been a bad idea. They have been abused, as well as the cross sales. We have brought this upon ourselves.

I am very EXCITED about these changes.

One reason PureCash has not launched on time was due to the changes that were coming down. We wanted to make sure that we have the right business model built in, and not try to build on the old model that is being put to sleep.

I think in the long run this will make the industry much more stable. We have enjoyed a drunken orgy of $45 payouts on free trials... reality looks like it is finally setting in.
For once I agree 100% with you Mike. FINALLY we are seeing per-signup payouts going down instead of up. It's going to force everyone to play on a fair level with everyone else. Shadiness is about to get a little sunlight.

Revshare programs are about to see more money in their pockets too.[/b][/quote]
Chris, people are not going to play on the same field. Python and CE have already said they are not lowering payouts. They both have beeen around the block with CC companies many times, and know how to play the merchant account game well.

[Mike AI]

Deep down I guess I always knew he was right hehe

Can I get this sent to me in writing and signed? :D

Seriously though, I think people who come from the Amateur side of the market understand what is going on, and should be able to capitalize on the change. We have always done things differently then the big programs....

[Mike AI]

Brad you are right, the companies who have always pushed the envelope - (the ones who led the way in putting the industry in this situation )- will still carry on business as usual....

It will be interesting to see if VISA can catch on to their games....

Hell for a small consulting fee, I would be more then happy to help VISA. These are the cockholsters who put all of our futures at risk!

[gregtx]

I just opened my vinyl banner, flyer, and biz card re-printing company .. so that all of you can redo your internext literature... !!! lol

Sabby you weren't supposed to talk about my small penis in a public forum.. i'm never coming back to visit you anymore!

In general.. not sure customer loyalty is as good as it was 2 years ago... how much is a revshare worth these days??? and why aren't all of them retired???

[Toolz]

Originally posted by Evil Chris+Jul 11 2003, 07:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Evil Chris @ Jul 11 2003, 07:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 11:18 AM
I dont think this is a big bright shiny day for revshare programs as some people think.

Webmasters like things to be simple and revshare just isnt as simple as knowing that you earn x number of dollars for each new customer you send.

I do think that membres areas will see a significant improvement however.
You know what's simple? How I receive my CCBill cheque weekly without fail from all of the collective revshare programs I send to.

I check the numbers a couple times a month, and have yet to find a significant problem. I do believe it is a good thing for revshare programs.[/b][/quote]
Ugh, misguiding the newbies again, will someone with a partnership program put up some ACTUAL retention #'s? However there is a caveat, if you're not doing 200+ signups a day you don't have enough data to form a solid conclusion, imho. If there's a revshare program out there that would like to share some of this info and change our forever jaded minds that revshare is crap then please enlighten us. For what it's worth, if you come on here trying to push 60-70% retention I'll keep lmao all the way to the bank even at $25 a signup on PPS. Not sure if you read the boards at all but Lou, from Karups, you've probably got the best retention, care to share some #'s :)

[BradShaw]

Toolz, I agree partner programs are not the answers. Retention sucks (nothing we can do it going to help this trend dramatically), and it takes dialers, exits, upsells, email etc to turn a nice profit, not 50% partnership long term.

I challenge someone to post some #'s. I have never sent traffic to a partner program, I could be wrong, but that would be rare.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Sabby@Jul 11 2003, 06:37 AM
My favorite is the small penis guy that comes in all the time and just wants me to make fun of him and laugh at his tiny little dick.

Me and him have a GREAT time together!!!

Sabby:)
Mike Ai, you better hope Sabby doesn't spill the beans to Katie about this!!! :lol:

[Mike AI]

Mike Ai, you better hope Sabby doesn't spill the beans to Katie about this!!!

This is a very sensitive subject for me. I would not pay any girl to insult my dick size... I can get them to do it for free!!

:D

[BradShaw]

Keep that thing in your pants please. Thank you.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 11 2003, 02:50 PM
Keep that thing in your pants please. Thank you.
since when you became so modest?????
;-)))

[Winetalk.com]

and as ALWAYS,
ANY ISSUE in this industry can be wrapped with the regular
T&A and penis discussion
;-)))

Long live Oprano's "peter-meter"
;-))))

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 11 2003, 03:00 PM
Toolz, I agree partner programs are not the answers. Retention sucks (nothing we can do it going to help this trend dramatically), and it takes dialers, exits, upsells, email etc to turn a nice profit, not 50% partnership long term.

I challenge someone to post some #'s. I have never sent traffic to a partner program, I could be wrong, but that would be rare.
My hat is off to you Brad, for commenting purely on something you know about, and nothing you don't know about.

Nobody is going to post any numbers. If you were the savvy businessman you profess to be, you would know there is more money in the long run for affiliate programs that run purely on revshare. It's been said a hundred thousand times over, but a $35 payout on a 7.95 trial doesn't make sense. Never has. Yes I know that it's probably too complicated for me to understand that you make that money back up by cleverly using exits, and spamming yourself... but I'm learing.

Retention is just fine on sites that create their own content, and do not sell it to others. Obviously, sites with purely licensed content can't compete with that.

[Mike AI]

Chris the most important point about sending traffic to Rev Share is to send it to QUALITY sites, with great members areas. Custom content is also key. It is important to know the program, and the people running it - to know they are commited to 100% customer satisfaction!

They do not call it "Partnership" programs for nothing.... make sure you "KNOW" your partner, and that they are working with you! ( not just taking your traffic)

[BradShaw]

Chris, answer this. What has made more millionaires, PPS or partnership prorgrams?

You think Fm, RB, Marc De, Aussies, etc got rich off partnership programs, no.

Surf around to the biggest players in the biz exit consoles (ars, nasrty dollars, top bucks, etc), what do you see, 95% links to PPS programs, not partnership programs. These guys need to MAXIMIZE every dime, they must know what they are doing?

Success leaves clues, call me magnum pi.

I am sure they have a place in the industry, I just have not found it. Times may be changing, but for now I stick to same story.



Last edited by BradShaw at Jul 11 2003, 12:47 PM

[Marc De]

Evil Chris - I'm not posting this to dog you, but even a PPS program paying $25-30 is (in most cases) going to make more ON AVERAGE (I'm not talking 2 or 3 sign ups that rebill for 10 months, that is all figured into the average) than a 50% partnership program.

You can have exclusive content but that doesn't change the fact that SURFERS KNOW THE GAME. Sign up and cancel - that is it and that is how it works. At 50% to beat a one time $30 referral your memberships would have to be worth almost $75 and we all know that is near impossible across anyone's entire portfolio (let me do the math, 75% - 18% of chargebacks, refunds, and processing fees = $61.50 and 50% of that is $30.75)

Partnership programs are great for people who have absolute superior traffic that will refer members that retain far outside the industry average, otherwise PPS is the way to go and still will be. There is one MAJOR reason the largest programs are PPS and that is because they PAY MORE MONEY per click / membership! :)



Last edited by Marc De at Jul 11 2003, 01:28 PM

[BradShaw]

Yeah, what Marc De is saying;-)

[dantheman]

We're very excited about where revshare is and where it appears to be heading. I'm sure there's more bumps in the road but I have a solid vehicle:) I'm also excited about our dialer/web900/sms solution that we have along with wig's ACH program.

I think things are well with revshare as long as the owners are interested in retention.

anyhow, Go join wepayu.com and let us pay u :rokk:

[Evil Chris]

Some good points here... and I can especially relate to Mike's comment on the quality of sites. Revshare programs need this in particular.

I don't want to get into the nudge nudge wink wink aspects of running a pps program that pays $40+ per free signup, though. Those kinds of numbers have never made any sense no matter what spin you put on it.

Marc, at Triplexcash (for example), all the sites contain exclusive content with almost no 3rd party content. Retention is good because the surfers get something unique on every update. Also, most of our traffic is from the TGP circle of webmasters and the conversions would impress you. These are surfers who know the game better than any others, I'm sure you would agree. Also, you shouldn't base all your calculations on 50%. I can offer you 60% and we'll both make a lot of money.

[Evil Chris]

Brad... the bottom line here is you will have to lower your pps payouts, and therefore you'll be forced to compete with revshare programs. Your customer support is probably already good, but will need to step it up once again. But most importantly, the sites need to be beyond reproach. The member needs to be impressed with that they've paid for more than even now. So releasing 12 new sites a month will be almost impossible if they are to be profitable.

And by the way, most revshare programs will offer a pps, just not on trials.



Last edited by Evil Chris at Jul 11 2003, 05:05 PM

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 11 2003, 02:46 PM
Mike Ai, you better hope Sabby doesn't spill the beans to Katie about this!!!

This is a very sensitive subject for me. I would not pay any girl to insult my dick size... I can get them to do it for free!!

:D
Hahahahaha!!! :okthumb:

[Mike AI]

RevShare has there place. But realisticly they are run by people who do not have the money ( or do not want to spend the money) to do PPS.

PPS programs are the biggest, and will be the biggest. It is good business practie to get your money immediately ( that is why people always take that option with lotterys). One big reason is RISK. Which is a major issue in this industry....

As a webmaster, one should have a good portfolio of sites to promote.... but I would stick to PPS programs for at least 85% of my traffic.

The only RevShare programs I send traffic to are run by friends, or amateur girls.....

[Carrie]

Originally posted by Platinum Dave@Jul 10 2003, 08:25 PM
Free Trials made everyone more money to be able to pay for the new options webmasters get to have now

- Free Host
- Free hosted content
- $35-50 a signup
- etc.

Is this a roundabout way of saying that we'll see sponsors' free hosting going away soon?
It must certainly be an *expensive* thing to run.

And I agree, Mike - I am also EXCITED about the changes coming around. About damn time! And I'm loving watching the sheeple panicking, while the "playas" fight for court time and announce they're not lowering payouts - hell they're nearly breaking their necks to draw over those horrible ratio webmasters, LOL

The past 24 hours have been fun as all hell!! :bjump:

[Forest]

Originally posted by Carrie@Jul 11 2003, 04:29 PM
And I agree, Mike - I am also EXCITED about the changes coming around. About damn time! And I'm loving watching the sheeple panicking, while the "playas" fight for court time and announce they're not lowering payouts - hell they're nearly breaking their necks to draw over those horrible ratio webmasters, LOL

The past 24 hours have been fun as all hell!! :bjump:
:okthumb: :okthumb:

[Dianna Vesta]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 10 2003, 05:15 PM
I also think dialers are going to play a larger future in this business than alot of people think.


Lets also not forget checks.

I agree on the dialers. For sure, but think about the problems with 900 billing. It became less attractive once the telco’s didn’t force collections. Someone has to collect for them.

I’d like to see an aggressive billing company that used dialer technology but capture the ANI to do direct billing to the customer. The phone companies do it. Look at 1010220. When they don’t pay you cut them off and or have your collections dept start making calls.

Bradshaw I couldn’t help but notice your very realistic comments about payouts dropping and that you were still running numbers? Weren't you the one giving me shit about not having a HUGE fucking bank roll to do high payouts? Lol- Yea you got the secret key alright! I do also remember your rant about cross selling and how to make it work… lol- or was that Hooper? Looks like another side step that came back to bite you in the ass.

MikeAI, I’m sticking to my guns and I too look forward to business being conducted with some better regulations. It all kinda remind me of horse racing… you’ve got the ones that are fast the start but slow to the finish. The ones that pace themselves win, win, win and they’re in it for the long haul.

[slavdogg]

Chris, if you want to compete with PPS programs better
raise your rev share to something like 70 or 80% split cuz thats what a PPS program pays out if not more.

[BradShaw]

Cross sells can work, our CB's are under 1% year to date. I say they are working. Some people have gone overboard. Like couple of the big guys. Join their site via epoch, takes you to a page with a full page ad, click that, and another click and you joined another site. No members link, that comes in email.

We have to live by the rules that Epoch sets, life goes on, we will still find a way to make a profit.

Dianne, I am a businessman. This business is not childs play. I have looked at spreadsheets today that are over an inch thick. It is alot to digest.



Last edited by BradShaw at Jul 11 2003, 02:23 PM

[Dianna Vesta]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 11 2003, 05:22 PM
Dianne, I am a businessman. This business is not childs play. I have looked at spreadsheets today that are over an inch thick. It is alot to digest.
You know what? I really beleive that you are. Perhaps once you digest all that you'll tell us your predictions.

Perhaps my $20.00 payout and 50% ongoing won't seem like child's play after all. Then again, who knows, the industry just might fool us all. Won't be the first time.

hey does anyone wanna sell something REALLY REALLY FUCKING FREAKY?

[dantheman]

Originally posted by slavdogg@Jul 11 2003, 05:19 PM
Chris, if you want to compete with PPS programs better
raise your rev share to something like 70 or 80% split cuz thats what a PPS program pays out if not more.
someone say 70/80% I know where you can find some of that action:)

slav, if you decide to try a higher revshare, gives us a looksee :)

[Nickatilynx]

So is this just a great excuse to turn up the shave? ;-)))

[Forest]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 11 2003, 05:49 PM
So is this just a great excuse to turn up the shave? ;-)))
hahaha nick

what isnt a good excuse?

[Nickatilynx]

True,Forest ,very true.;-)))

Its July! Lets turn up the shave! LOL

New angle this time.Lower pps rates. ;-)))

End of the day...$20 per/30 per/40 per.....

Its all about the cheque you cash at the end of the week.

:-))

I had affiliates once....bastards,all of them ;-)))



Last edited by Nickatilynx at Jul 11 2003, 05:57 PM

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by dantheman+Jul 11 2003, 05:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dantheman @ Jul 11 2003, 05:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--slavdogg@Jul 11 2003, 05:19 PM
Chris, if you want to compete with PPS programs better
raise your rev share to something like 70 or 80% split cuz thats what a PPS program pays out if not more.
someone say 70/80% I know where you can find some of that action:)

slav, if you decide to try a higher revshare, gives us a looksee :)[/b][/quote]
dan, i signed up last night
was gonna put the links up today
but than i got drunk last night and i cant remember the name of your program. Your confirmation email doesnt say anything.

help me out :)

[slavdogg]

nevermind i see it in your cig

[dantheman]

sorry for that, yeah the confirmation letter epoch sends out isnt real clear, we setting up one of our own now. the url is wepayu.com
you'll get the 80% from now on.

Thanks for giving us a shot:)

[Hooper]

but than i got drunk last night and i cant remember the name of your program.


Pearl!!!

(been there done that)

[Forest]

Originally posted by slavdogg@Jul 11 2003, 05:59 PM
dan, i signed up last night
was gonna put the links up today
but than i got drunk last night and i cant remember the name of your program. Your confirmation email doesnt say anything.

help me out :)
hahahahaha

slav

verry funny

:wnw:

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 11 2003, 06:22 PM
Cross sells can work, our CB's are under 1% year to date. I say they are working. Some people have gone overboard. Like couple of the big guys. Join their site via epoch, takes you to a page with a full page ad, click that, and another click and you joined another site. No members link, that comes in email.

We have to live by the rules that Epoch sets, life goes on, we will still find a way to make a profit.

Dianne, I am a businessman. This business is not childs play. I have looked at spreadsheets today that are over an inch thick. It is alot to digest.
CB's under 1%? Well then you won't have to drop your monthly membership fee to something lower than the $39.95 per month that you are charging now. Do you think you'll have to do this anytime soon though?

Are you using Paycom? Didn't I read somewhere that they will not be processing for anyone who is also using IBill?

[BradShaw]

We process no new transactions with Ibill. Have not for a while.

[Evil Chris]

Hmmm... I think you do. You better check this out.

http://link.siccash.com/cgi-bin/welcome2ki....cgi/raw_5978/A (http://link.siccash.com/cgi-bin/welcome2kinkybrunettes.cgi/raw_5978/A)

This URL shows it better:
http://www.kinkybrunettes.com/tour3.html



Last edited by Evil Chris at Jul 11 2003, 11:03 PM

[LeeNoga]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2003, 01:56 PM
Oh yeah.(leenogas zip codes etc)

Sorry about that.It was just a mind fart.

:agrin:
Nick your rotten but I count on that! I wish I owned that zipcode list.

[LeeNoga]

Flynt Digital just announced pay increases effective July 16th in response to this sponsor dropping payouts, and CECash announced a nice bonus bump.

[Timon]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 11 2003, 05:54 PM
I had affiliates once....bastards,all of them ;-)))
HAHAHAHAHAHA I just spat my coffee all over my monitor ;-))

[Rolo]

Those who increases their payout are probably just looking for attention... I hope they do not attract the wrong kind of attention (scammers, and CBs).

Another point is that most of the programs saying they will not lower their payout, are programs that already have low payout... so why should they change?

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 12 2003, 04:27 AM
Those who increases their payout are probably just looking for attention... I hope they do not attract the wrong kind of attention (scammers, and CBs).

Another point is that most of the programs saying they will not lower their payout, are programs that already have low payout... so why should they change?
Since payouts lag a good month+ behind, it would be possible for people to maintain/increase payouts until about Sept 15 (based on using epoch). I think you are going to see some people doing this short term, hoping to increase market share, but I think by Oct. 1, if these changes stick payouts will settle down.

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Evil Chris@Jul 11 2003, 10:49 PM
Hmmm... I think you do. You better check this out.

http://link.siccash.com/cgi-bin/welcome2ki....cgi/raw_5978/A (http://link.siccash.com/cgi-bin/welcome2kinkybrunettes.cgi/raw_5978/A)

This URL shows it better:
http://www.kinkybrunettes.com/tour3.html
Strange to quote myself... but it's just a reminder to Brad.
So what's the deal, are you processing with IBILL or not?

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 06:07 PM
but than i got drunk last night and i cant remember the name of your program.


Pearl!!!

(been there done that)
Second that motion. I'm falling off the rocker I will be in when I become an old man.

[gigi]

Originally posted by LeeNoga@Jul 11 2003, 07:11 PM
Flynt Digital just announced pay increases effective July 16th in response to this sponsor dropping payouts, and CECash announced a nice bonus bump.
Yes, Flynt Digital has raised payouts for all sites to $40 per paid trial.

As Amber said on GFY, FD makes no apologies for being able to raise payouts at a time when other affiliate programs are dropping theirs.

Our sites have higher than average retention due to the unique content they contain...it's really quite simple.

We all know that a unique, quality site will kick ass over any cookie cutter with plug ins time and time again. THAT is where FD shines.

[Marc De]

ARS will only lower payouts if we decide to lower the monthly rate from $39.99 to $29.99. We are still running numbers and looking at all possibilities. We will have final word on Wednesday in a press release.

[gregtx]

Originally posted by Evil Chris@Jul 11 2003, 06:49 PM
Hmmm... I think you do. You better check this out.

http://link.siccash.com/cgi-bin/welcome2ki....cgi/raw_5978/A (http://link.siccash.com/cgi-bin/welcome2kinkybrunettes.cgi/raw_5978/A)

This URL shows it better:
http://www.kinkybrunettes.com/tour3.html
the only way to get to ibill on this particular tour http://www.kinkybrunettes.com/tour3.html

would be to do a typein... including the /tour3.html... not sure that is really that popular. (if so.. Maybe Diamond JIm would be interested??) . non the less we removed those old ibill pages from our server... so not to confuse anyone ;)

as we have not used ibill as primary since early 2002

[Ken]

Originally posted by Toolz+Jul 11 2003, 05:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Toolz @ Jul 11 2003, 05:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Opti@Jul 11 2003, 03:45 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM
Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

I commend them all too...

Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please? :matey:
Not sure that this is much help to the problem. Basically what's gonna happen is the last ones holding their payouts up high will be the first ones to be but on the Visa TMF list. Once this happens whatever higher % you were making weather it be 10-15% more with them you can kiss goodbye as they'll be out of biz.

Don't view the drop in credit card processor payments as a bad thing, programs will continue to innovate and find ways to put more money in your pocket and their pocket, just expect the days of $40 payouts to go bye bye, if the top dogs in the industry are at 28-30 I'd be suprised as I expect this number to be closer to 23-$26 per credit card signup realistically. Will there still be people at $40 per signup? Yeah probably, but I don't trust em with my money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.[/b][/quote]
Tooz,

Hate to disagaree with you man, but FlyntDigital is in a position to pay a legitiamate $40 per join, even if we dropped our cross sells completely. In addition, we've never charged 39.99 a month like many others, so we don't have to deal with a huge drop in revenue.

I don't know everyones numbers, but FlyntDigital has the conversions and retention to justify an honest $40 payout......

FlyntDigital.com paying $40 per join starting July 16th!

[*KK*]

Revshare programs leave too much up to someone else in order for there to be a good long term payout. PPS still are -- even if payouts dropped by 1/3 -- the most profitable way to manage traffic for the average affiliate.

You can do math all you want to, but when you factor in the time it takes to get paid this supposedly larger payout with revshare then you simply must take that into account as having a negative impact on the bottom line as far as payouts go.

[Hooper]

good for fd if they can do it.

but than i got drunk last night and i cant remember the name of your program.

i wonder if anybody has every forgotten the name of their own program? ;-)

[Toolz]

Originally posted by Ken+Jul 14 2003, 10:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Jul 14 2003, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Toolz@Jul 11 2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by -Opti@Jul 11 2003, 03:45 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM
Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

I commend them all too...

Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please? :matey:
Not sure that this is much help to the problem. Basically what's gonna happen is the last ones holding their payouts up high will be the first ones to be but on the Visa TMF list. Once this happens whatever higher % you were making weather it be 10-15% more with them you can kiss goodbye as they'll be out of biz.

Don't view the drop in credit card processor payments as a bad thing, programs will continue to innovate and find ways to put more money in your pocket and their pocket, just expect the days of $40 payouts to go bye bye, if the top dogs in the industry are at 28-30 I'd be suprised as I expect this number to be closer to 23-$26 per credit card signup realistically. Will there still be people at $40 per signup? Yeah probably, but I don't trust em with my money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Tooz,

Hate to disagaree with you man, but FlyntDigital is in a position to pay a legitiamate $40 per join, even if we dropped our cross sells completely. In addition, we've never charged 39.99 a month like many others, so we don't have to deal with a huge drop in revenue.

I don't know everyones numbers, but FlyntDigital has the conversions and retention to justify an honest $40 payout......

FlyntDigital.com paying $40 per join starting July 16th![/b][/quote]
Ken,

You run a tight ship and given that I haven't had legit #'s in front of me in some months I don't disagree that you may be able to do this. What I've seen with other's retention #'s leaves a lot to be desired and a $10 drop in monthly price will definetly coincide with a drop in webmasters payout. I see you're at $34.95 with 2 cross-sells. I can pay $40 per on this all day long :) Was referring to programs that will be at $29.95 with no cross-sells, can you still pay $40 on that? :)

[*KK*]

I cannot believe that revshare programs would have even a thought that this will not affect them negatively.

Even if you have a .25% cb rate and you are a recurring program you will still see the impact if you run a reseller program.

The processors are going to be looking way more closely at individual resellers in the coming weeks, I'll bet, and overall scrub is going to tighten, no matter who you are -- Brad mentioned in another thread a comment about what Visa would go to next --- and these processors didn't get where they are without knowing that Visa will probably tighten up again next year - and they have to be prepared -- you simply cannot run your cb level right up to the limit and think that you'll be safe if the limit drops again.

Visa US overall cb rate as of April this year was .05% and that includes all the businesses they process for.

Things are going to get tighter all the way around, and saying that revshare wont suffer right along with every other type of system is bullshit.

[Ken]

Originally posted by Toolz+Jul 14 2003, 12:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Toolz @ Jul 14 2003, 12:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Ken@Jul 14 2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by -Toolz@Jul 11 2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by -Opti@Jul 11 2003, 03:45 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM
Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

I commend them all too...

Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please? :matey:
Not sure that this is much help to the problem. Basically what's gonna happen is the last ones holding their payouts up high will be the first ones to be but on the Visa TMF list. Once this happens whatever higher % you were making weather it be 10-15% more with them you can kiss goodbye as they'll be out of biz.

Don't view the drop in credit card processor payments as a bad thing, programs will continue to innovate and find ways to put more money in your pocket and their pocket, just expect the days of $40 payouts to go bye bye, if the top dogs in the industry are at 28-30 I'd be suprised as I expect this number to be closer to 23-$26 per credit card signup realistically. Will there still be people at $40 per signup? Yeah probably, but I don't trust em with my money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Tooz,

Hate to disagaree with you man, but FlyntDigital is in a position to pay a legitiamate $40 per join, even if we dropped our cross sells completely. In addition, we've never charged 39.99 a month like many others, so we don't have to deal with a huge drop in revenue.

I don't know everyones numbers, but FlyntDigital has the conversions and retention to justify an honest $40 payout......

FlyntDigital.com paying $40 per join starting July 16th!
Ken,

You run a tight ship and given that I haven't had legit #'s in front of me in some months I don't disagree that you may be able to do this. What I've seen with other's retention #'s leaves a lot to be desired and a $10 drop in monthly price will definetly coincide with a drop in webmasters payout. I see you're at $34.95 with 2 cross-sells. I can pay $40 per on this all day long :) Was referring to programs that will be at $29.95 with no cross-sells, can you still pay $40 on that? :)[/b][/quote]
Toolz.....we sure can. Hustler in particular has very high trial/conversion and retention numbers which will allow us to pay more than others over the long term......even without the cross sells.

This industry shakeout is going to put the focus back on quality content and providing value. We're already doing that, so we're ahead of the game :)

[KC]

Originally posted by Ken+Jul 14 2003, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ken @ Jul 14 2003, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Toolz@Jul 14 2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by -Ken@Jul 14 2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by -Toolz@Jul 11 2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by -Opti@Jul 11 2003, 03:45 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM
Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.

I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.

I commend them all too...

Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please? :matey:
Not sure that this is much help to the problem. Basically what's gonna happen is the last ones holding their payouts up high will be the first ones to be but on the Visa TMF list. Once this happens whatever higher % you were making weather it be 10-15% more with them you can kiss goodbye as they'll be out of biz.

Don't view the drop in credit card processor payments as a bad thing, programs will continue to innovate and find ways to put more money in your pocket and their pocket, just expect the days of $40 payouts to go bye bye, if the top dogs in the industry are at 28-30 I'd be suprised as I expect this number to be closer to 23-$26 per credit card signup realistically. Will there still be people at $40 per signup? Yeah probably, but I don't trust em with my money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Tooz,

Hate to disagaree with you man, but FlyntDigital is in a position to pay a legitiamate $40 per join, even if we dropped our cross sells completely. In addition, we've never charged 39.99 a month like many others, so we don't have to deal with a huge drop in revenue.

I don't know everyones numbers, but FlyntDigital has the conversions and retention to justify an honest $40 payout......

FlyntDigital.com paying $40 per join starting July 16th!
Ken,

You run a tight ship and given that I haven't had legit #'s in front of me in some months I don't disagree that you may be able to do this. What I've seen with other's retention #'s leaves a lot to be desired and a $10 drop in monthly price will definetly coincide with a drop in webmasters payout. I see you're at $34.95 with 2 cross-sells. I can pay $40 per on this all day long :) Was referring to programs that will be at $29.95 with no cross-sells, can you still pay $40 on that? :)
Toolz.....we sure can. Hustler in particular has very high trial/conversion and retention numbers which will allow us to pay more than others over the long term......even without the cross sells.

This industry shakeout is going to put the focus back on quality content and providing value. We're already doing that, so we're ahead of the game :)[/b][/quote]
Ken,

Please bring some bongo cash to Miami. I've jut about worn out my first set!!

-KC

[Mike AI]

Ooooppppaaaa!!!!

[Rolo]

Originally posted by gigi@Jul 14 2003, 08:34 AM
We all know that a unique, quality site will kick ass over any cookie cutter with plug ins time and time again.
Lets try and hold "Hustler" brand site out from this (many webmasters have traffic, which do not convert on pornstar/general type sites - they need something alittle more "niche" to convert), so lets focus on the "cookie cutter with plug ins" sites - ex. CashQuest and ARS:

I see that CashQuest are paying $28 per signup on sites which have:

- entry console with 4 large consoles
- frontpage e-mail newsletter signup box
- trial $4.95/3 days ~ recurring $29.95/30 days
- pre checked 1 free day cross sale ~ recurring $19.95/30 days
- pre checked 1 free day cross sale ~ recurring $14.95/30 days
- pre checked e-mail newsletter signup

ARS is currently paying $35 per signup on sites which have:

- entry console with 1 console
- exit console with 5 consoles
- trial $4.95/5 days ~ recurring $39.95/30 days
- pre checked $1/3 days cross sale ~ recurring $39.76/30 days

When I looked at ARS suggestions, then they will pay $29 per signup on sites which have (they have NOT said they will lower - they are still looking at numbers):

- entry console with 1 console
- exit console with 5 consoles
- trial $4.95/5 days ~ recurring $29.95/30 days
- pre checked $1/3 days cross sale ~ recurring $19.95/30 days (I guess it will be around $20)

Mind you, I know nothing about CashQuest or ARS conversions from trial/recurring, how much they make from other billing options etc.... just looking at the programs and trying to compare from a "webmaster" point of view... It looks like the current CashQuest, and the possible new ARS setup pays almost the same?

So how does CashQuest do these days... are you happy with your current setup (pricing, cross sell etc.) or will there also be changes here?

Just wondering...



Last edited by Rolo at Jul 15 2003, 05:52 AM

[Ken]

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 15 2003, 05:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 15 2003, 05:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--gigi@Jul 14 2003, 08:34 AM
We all know that a unique, quality site will kick ass over any cookie cutter with plug ins time and time again.
Lets try and hold "Hustler" brand site out from this (many webmasters have traffic, which do not convert on pornstar/general type sites - they need something alittle more "niche" to convert), so lets focus on the "cookie cutter with plug ins" sites - ex. CashQuest and ARS:

I see that CashQuest are paying $28 per signup on sites which have:

- entry console with 4 large consoles
- frontpage e-mail newsletter signup box
- trial $4.95/3 days ~ recurring $29.95/30 days
- pre checked 1 free day cross sale ~ recurring $19.95/30 days
- pre checked 1 free day cross sale ~ recurring $14.95/30 days
- pre checked e-mail newsletter signup

ARS is currently paying $35 per signup on sites which have:

- entry console with 1 console
- exit console with 5 consoles
- trial $4.95/5 days ~ recurring $39.95/30 days
- pre checked $1/3 days cross sale ~ recurring $39.76/30 days

When I looked at ARS suggestions, then they will pay $29 per signup on sites which have (they have NOT said they will lower - they are still looking at numbers):

- entry console with 1 console
- exit console with 5 consoles
- trial $4.95/5 days ~ recurring $29.95/30 days
- pre checked $1/3 days cross sale ~ recurring $19.95/30 days (I guess it will be around $20)

Mind you, I know nothing about CashQuest or ARS conversions from trial/recurring, how much they make from other billing options etc.... just looking at the programs and trying to compare from a "webmaster" point of view... It looks like the current CashQuest, and the possible new ARS setup pays almost the same?

So how does CashQuest do these days... are you happy with your current setup (pricing, cross sell etc.) or will there also be changes here?

Just wondering...[/b][/quote]
Rolo,

Good Question! CashQuest will be changing our cross sells slightly, but as you can see, we are cross selling to sites with very low price points, so we won't need to make significant changes.

Also, we are looking at raising payouts on CashQuest as well. It won't be a substantial raise, but will be very competitive with anything else out there.

The thing CashQuest has that most sites don't is VERY high quality members areas. Each site has very niche specific content that we have built up for years, a lot of which is exclusive.

CashQuest still does very well, but we have not been aggresive in marketing to affiliates the last couple of years because we were not willing to do certain things to compete. Now the playing field is leveled and we are going to step things up!

Give CQ a try.....I'm sure you'll be very pleased :)

Having said that, I'm sure ARS will also remain very competitive headed into the future.

[Rolo]

Thanks Ken for answering my question :-)

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 15 2003, 05:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 15 2003, 05:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--gigi@Jul 14 2003, 08:34 AM
We all know that a unique, quality site will kick ass over any cookie cutter with plug ins time and time again.
Lets try and hold "Hustler" brand site out from this (many webmasters have traffic, which do not convert on pornstar/general type sites - they need something alittle more "niche" to convert), so lets focus on the "cookie cutter with plug ins" sites - ex. CashQuest and ARS:

I see that CashQuest are paying $28 per signup on sites which have:

- entry console with 4 large consoles
- frontpage e-mail newsletter signup box
- trial $4.95/3 days ~ recurring $29.95/30 days
- pre checked 1 free day cross sale ~ recurring $19.95/30 days
- pre checked 1 free day cross sale ~ recurring $14.95/30 days
- pre checked e-mail newsletter signup

ARS is currently paying $35 per signup on sites which have:

- entry console with 1 console
- exit console with 5 consoles
- trial $4.95/5 days ~ recurring $39.95/30 days
- pre checked $1/3 days cross sale ~ recurring $39.76/30 days

When I looked at ARS suggestions, then they will pay $29 per signup on sites which have (they have NOT said they will lower - they are still looking at numbers):

- entry console with 1 console
- exit console with 5 consoles
- trial $4.95/5 days ~ recurring $29.95/30 days
- pre checked $1/3 days cross sale ~ recurring $19.95/30 days (I guess it will be around $20)

Mind you, I know nothing about CashQuest or ARS conversions from trial/recurring, how much they make from other billing options etc.... just looking at the programs and trying to compare from a "webmaster" point of view... It looks like the current CashQuest, and the possible new ARS setup pays almost the same?

So how does CashQuest do these days... are you happy with your current setup (pricing, cross sell etc.) or will there also be changes here?

Just wondering...[/b][/quote]
Ed Powers used to convert 1:20 for me...and thats no bull shit.
Of course somthing changed at tthe first of the year and Ed aint making any sales for me now.

So I say fuck Ed and Ill do my own paysite.



Last edited by gonzo at Jul 16 2003, 05:36 AM

[mojobill]

There are many factors involved in programs paying the high rate per sign up they do now. These factors include

$39.99 monthly charges
2 FREE cross sells per page rebilling at $30 to $40 / mo

there are other factors as well but its these factors in specific I would like to address.

Chargebacks occur for a number of reasons but a lot have to do with very high monthly charges. Obviously these prices bring in more money which allows a much higher payout.

In an effort to reduce chargebacks, free cross sells will become single micro $1 payments that rebill at a much lesser rate. Much more importantly monthly rates must drop from the rate of $39.99 to $29.99

Obviously this will drastically hit the top of line of many sponsors (those who choose to take the path of 'correcting' some of the problems in the industry. Because of this cut in revenue payouts of $35 and $40 per trial will no longer exist (again for that group of sponsors who attempt to make the proper changes)

Payout will drop below the $30 range. Also FREE trials (which ARS recently began offering) will no longer exist. These changes will take place in the coming days.

Webmasters use this post as for warning of things to come.


This was the original post on this tread... or at least the majority of it...

This is from the ARS website members area:

In an effort to keep charge-backs to a minimum in light of Visa's new ruling of 1% domestic c/b levels effective 10/1/03, we will have to discontinue free trials. Free trials will automatically be set to a $1, 3 day trial payment option. There will still be (4) membership options for you to promote. They are the $1, 3 day trial, $2.99 trial which will now be a 4 day trial, the $4.99, 5 day trial and the $39.99 monthly memberships. Payouts reamain unchanged with the $1 trials receiving what the free trials were paying. The effective change date has not yet been determined, but it will happen before Oct 1.

I'm confused....

I thought the $39.95 Monthly was supposed to drop to help with this issue

Much more importantly monthly rates must drop from the rate of $39.99 to $29.99

I'm sure I'm missing something.. so figured I'd ask....

:zoinks:

[LushBoobs]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2003, 01:32 PM
Question for you guys.....

Having bought
http://www.firmcontent.com

It may be a moronic idea,But what about offering cds or dvds at like 1or 2 bucks to members?

Nick - What was the process when you purchased content from firmcontent.com ? Did they email you with your ftp information right after your billing confirmation came from the billing company? Did you ever have to email support, or call the company?

I'm having some issues with them and I'm concerned. I ordered content from them after following your link in this thread - but that was 9 days ago and I have recieved no contact or content from them whatsoever - no replies to my inquiries, they have no fax machine working but they do list a fax #, and the main line has a machine that is complately full and no one ever answers the phone.

How did your experience go with them?


thanks,

~Liana



Last edited by LushBoobs at Jul 29 2003, 11:01 AM