CE settles with acacia

[BradShaw]

http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200307/new..._070303_1.shtml (http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200307/newsarchive/news_070303_1.shtml)

I am still trying to digest this myself.

[Forest]

:( :zoinks:

thought fm had bigger balls

[homegrownmof]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 3 2003, 02:40 PM
http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200307/new..._070303_1.shtml (http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200307/newsarchive/news_070303_1.shtml)

I am still trying to digest this myself.


Ditto.

Brad did you get sued by Acacia?

[BradShaw]

No. And thankfully I personally own very little anymore;-) "sold out" at the right time.

[Mike AI]

I am going to just do some speculation, based on how Ron has worked in the past, and reading the press release.

I would bet that Ron cut a deal for himself that is pretty sweet, but puts the rest of the industry in a bad spot. Ron probably cut a deal where he will not pay much ( if at all) in return for agreeing to "liscense" from acacia. Then Acacia will use this agreement to beat up everyone else in the industry, and thus divide and conquer.

Ron is like Stalin when he made a peace treaty with Hitler.... selling out Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe.

Ron has always put his own greedy self interest above ALL.... no matter what his lip service says, and his posts, he is a greedy bastard who would cut anyones throat to save himself.

Of course this is all speculation, but watch what happens.....

Ron just cut a deal, and the rest of the industry will end up paying for it!

Oh and Ron has no real balls, he only has Lee Nogas.... at least she does have prinicpals, and does take stances.

[Jesse_DD]

This has been a pretty fucked up week!

:(

[BradShaw]

Mike, I could not have said it better. Ron is all about $, and himself. He could give a fuck about ths industry. He got a sweet deal one way or another. IF Acacia is able to collect from people, we are talking TENS of MILLIONS of DOLLARS, going back 6 years.

To be fair, if I was backed into a corner, or saw a way to make alot of $ (when times were tough), who knows what I would do. Every man has a price.

I expect to be served with some papers soon, as I have no doubt he will personally turn Acacia on to people.

[BradShaw]

Originally posted by Jesse_DD@Jul 3 2003, 12:21 PM
This has been a pretty fucked up week!

:(
To say the least. Hope it has nothing to do with me coming back to the boards.

[Mike AI]

Brad, I bet that Ron made a deal and will be worth with Acacia to shake down the rest of the industry. This helps Ron by getting himself out of having to pay ( in lawsuits, and for potential liscenses), but also put pressure on his competition. ( by helping Acacia and forcing others to pay).

In Tony Soprano speak, Ron is a "Rat Bastard".... He made a deal, and will roll on the rest of the industry.... Very similiar to what happen with the FTC...

This from a guy who calls himself a player.... he is not a player, he is a sell out!

All the Ron ass kissers out there, I hope they finally wake up!!!

[BradShaw]

Mike, you have to understand that Ron is no longer a "big" guy in this business. I would speculate his income is down 90% from the good ole days. So when you are used to making $1million a month (just throwing these #'s out there) and all the sudden you make $100k a month, people do strange things.

I do things now that I could not see myself doing a few years ago. I think we all do. But, this one may take the cake. Wonder if Ron will show his face in Miami, would not surpise me if he bought/obtained alot of Acacia stock, not kidding.

[homegrownmof]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 3 2003, 03:14 PM
I am going to just do some speculation, based on how Ron has worked in the past, and reading the press release.

I would bet that Ron cut a deal for himself that is pretty sweet, but puts the rest of the industry in a bad spot. Ron probably cut a deal where he will not pay much ( if at all) in return for agreeing to "liscense" from acacia. Then Acacia will use this agreement to beat up everyone else in the industry, and thus divide and conquer.

Ron is like Stalin when he made a peace treaty with Hitler.... selling out Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe.

Ron has always put his own greedy self interest above ALL.... no matter what his lip service says, and his posts, he is a greedy bastard who would cut anyones throat to save himself.

Of course this is all speculation, but watch what happens.....

Ron just cut a deal, and the rest of the industry will end up paying for it!

Oh and Ron has no real balls, he only has Lee Nogas.... at least she does have prinicpals, and does take stances.




No comment on Ron's business decision, but the IMPA could use more support .

Contact spike@newdig.com. He can let you know what the status is, what the IMPA is, etc

[BradShaw]

How much does the IMPA feel it will take to "fight" Acacia? $

[homegrownmof]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 3 2003, 04:00 PM
How much does the IMPA feel it will take to "fight" Acacia? $


Hard to say. There are many variables.

The #1 patent law firm in the country, Fish & Richardson has been retained.

Of course, if more companies backed the IMPA it would be an easier pill to swallow.

btw, the IMPA is about more than just the Acacia issue.

contact Spike or Greg Clayman.

[Mike AI]

Moffit, can you send me their contact info in e-mail?

I have not been served yet, but I am sure they will eventually get to me, so might as well join the good fight!

[homegrownmof]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 3 2003, 04:13 PM
Moffit, can you send me their contact info in e-mail?

I have not been served yet, but I am sure they will eventually get to me, so might as well join the good fight!


Done.

And thanks!


:salute:

[Winetalk.com]

Ron,
you did settle and left everybody dry???

I don't know about you, folks, but I am boycotting Ron's funeral,
don't look for me there!
;-)))

meanwhile,
if any of you wanna come to mine,
I have "advance tickets sale" going as we speak!
;-)))

[sharky]

I wouldn't expect anything less.

Times are different now. No longer can one say he will take one for the good of the industry.

MikeAI's analogy of Stalin and Hitler is a good one!

[BradShaw]

Lets see if Ron is hiding in Miami, if he even goes. He may need to call JoeE and get some bodyguards. Anyone doing biz with him deserves what they get, fucked.

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 3 2003, 08:21 PM
meanwhile,
if any of you wanna come to mine,
I have "advance tickets sale" going as we speak!
;-)))
I think Jen and I want tickets.....

What day is it on ??

:yowsa:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 3 2003, 06:01 PM
Lets see if Ron is hiding in Miami, if he even goes. He may need to call JoeE and get some bodyguards. Anyone doing biz with him deserves what they get, fucked.
Word has it that Kaiser wont be going to Internext.

I think Ron has retained the services of the Sawanee Electric Company as bodyguards. They scare you so much you go fucking crazy!

[cj]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 3 2003, 03:49 PM
would not surpise me if he bought/obtained alot of Acacia stock, not kidding.
it would surprise me if he didn't ...

hopefully the rest of the industry can form enough of an alliance to put both acacia and their sole supporter on their ass ...

[BradShaw]

CJ, after everyone pools $ to fight acacia, we can maybe to an auction to get you laid. I will call pattycake!

[cj]

Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 3 2003, 10:55 PM
CJ, after everyone pools $ to fight acacia, we can maybe to an auction to get you laid. I will call pattycake!
hey brad, i think shawcutie just filled another of your credit cards ... better get her another one :okthumb:

it must suck having to pay chicks to sleep with you :(

[Timon]

ooops...

I hope the asshole who holds the patent to the Internet affiliate program didn't read that article ;-(

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Timon@Jul 4 2003, 12:03 AM
ooops...

I hope the asshole who holds the patent to the Internet affiliate program didn't read that article ;-(
I believe that's Amazon.

[BradShaw]

Geez, whats in that water in oz.

[Timon]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 4 2003, 12:28 AM

I believe that's Amazon.
And you are correct
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US06029141__

[Rolo]

This looks like deja vu - didn´t CE hand over Maxcash to the FTC or am I remembering wrong?

[Rolo]

Originally posted by homegrownmof@Jul 3 2003, 12:57 PM
the IMPA could use more support.
How about a website with information, and some ads (sig buttons, banners etc.) so we can spread the word (sig buttons, banners etc.), and make small webmasters/companies do small/big donations online (paypal and epassport)?

[Far-L]

There will be a site up and a way to donate asap.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Far-L@Jul 4 2003, 08:34 AM
There will be a site up and a way to donate asap.
There goes the neighborhood.
Mr. Giffy girl himself!


Seriously Far -L will you guys be having anything about this in the booth at Internext? I know you guys have been pushing fighting this thing for a year so I know this isnt good news of anyone settling.

Guess hes got a lot of "Big Time Green" to throw around....I guess everywhere except for ANS!

[Hell Puppy]

Actually, it certainly appears he took the path to NOT throw around any of that big time green.

He could've joined the fight to shoot down a bullshit patent that is bad for the industry. Instead he chose to settle. And I concur with the speculation that by settling early, he likely cut a sweetheart of a deal for himself just to allow Acacia to list CE as a licensee....it adds validity to their claim.

If you're looking out only for yourself, that's not a bad business decision. He wins either way. If the patent is upheld, he no doubt has carved himself out a much better deal than anyone else will get. If the patent is shot down, he's out nothing and didn't spend any money fighting it. Either is an advantage for him over competitors in a market with shrinking margins. You gotta give the devil his due.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 4 2003, 05:40 PM
If you're looking out only for yourself, that's not a bad business decision. He wins either way. If the patent is upheld, he no doubt has carved himself out a much better deal than anyone else will get. If the patent is shot down, he's out nothing and didn't spend any money fighting it. Either is an advantage for him over competitors in a market with shrinking margins. You gotta give the devil his due.
From what he's said on GFY, he's still paying to fight it.

I was reading the thread there this AM and in my VERY uneducated-about-this head thought he'd basically bought an insurance policy.

But there is SO much I don't know about the technology, who has it, what makes it different from other internet video stuff, why/when they got a patent on it, etc. that a laypersons take on it may be all wrong. :unsure:

(and if anyone thinks they CAN explain the technical side of it to me, don't waste your time. My Dad's been trying to explain football downs to me for 30+ years and I still don't get it. :awinky: )

[Hell Puppy]

Well, if it's true that he's licensed AND fighting it, I have a bit more respect for his position.

You dont really have to understand the technical aspects, this is about intellectual property and patent law.

The patent system in the U.S. is screwed. It forces you to use the court system. You can patent absolutely anything, no matter how ludicrous it is. If there wasn't already a patent on file for the television set, I could go file one right now. I could then demand everyone selling television sets to pay my license and royalty fees to use my technology.

You see, the patent office doesn't do any screening of the patents. No matter how obviously full of shit the guy filing it is, they'll take it. They leave it up to the courts to decide whether it is valid. So if you have a valid patent, you need an army of lawyers to defend it. Likewise if someone comes after you for infringing upon a bullshit patent, you need lawyers to fight it and get it invalidated. See a trend here as to who the only real winner is?

If you're granted a patent, you must pursue those who infringe upon it to enforce it's validity. This is done via licensing and law suits. Likewise if someone comes after you for infringing upon their patent, your only recourse is either pay them or fight them in court.

A good patent can be worth a fortune, but you may have to spend millions in lawyer fees before you ever begin to reap the benefits. This is why many marginal patents get sold to companies like Acacia. But on the other hand, the patent law system is wide open to being treated almost like extortion. If you can grab a patent for something that everyone is using and cant live without, then you can put everyone in the position of either having to pay you or pay lawyers.

Easiest way to fix it would be same you fix a lot of problems with our court systems. Implement a law whereby "loser pays" for all court and lawyer fee's. You'd get a lot less bullshit in the court system.

[Peaches]

Playing Devil's Advocate: If YOU had a patent for something, wouldn't YOU fight to make others that were using the product/technology/idea be responsible to pay you for it?

Easiest way to fix it would be same you fix a lot of problems with our court systems. Implement a law whereby "loser pays" for all court and lawyer fee's. You'd get a lot less bullshit in the court system.

Yep and I'd also rally for laws that would make it a LOT more difficult to get a patent on something you had no involvement with inventing. This could be an awfully large Pandora's Box that needs the top put back on. :angry:

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Peaches@Jul 4 2003, 05:49 PM
Playing Devil's Advocate: If YOU had a patent for something, wouldn't YOU fight to make others that were using the product/technology/idea be responsible to pay you for it?

Absolutely!

It's not legitimate patents that piss me off. It's the guys with the bullshit patents that I hate. In many cases, the only original thought they had was to be the first to think to patent something everyone has been using for years. In that case, it is not their intellectual property and they do not deserve to be compensated for it.

However, the only way to settle it is go to court. And these typically aren't fast cases. One of the ones I had first hand involvement with way back took about 6 years to settle.

[funkmaster]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 4 2003, 01:38 AM
This looks like deja vu - didn´t CE hand over Maxcash to the FTC or am I remembering wrong?
... rumors on the streets say ron is about to compile a new list to hand out to arcacia.

[Hooper]

I dont personally have any respect for ron now that he's done this, as he is financially supporting the enemy.

But from a numbers position it's obvious why he would do it:

a) from 96-Today he has grossed 9 figures.
B) the retroactive license fees on that would be high 7/low 8 figures.
c) is anybody promoting ce anymore? so now all he has to do is pay a small percentage of the gross on his program that is 1/100th of what it once was.

If i was Acacia guys like fm are the only people i wouldnt let have retroactive pardons.... their prior revenue would be what is worth persuing... retroactive pardons would only be issued to growing companies.

So yes, it's smart of ron to pay their fees.

What I dont like is his answer on GFY about his newly acquired stock in Acacia. Smells fishy to me.

[Mike AI]

What I dont like is his answer on GFY about his newly acquired stock in Acacia. Smells fishy to me.


Does this surprise anyone?

Ron is a very smart guy. There is no doubt about that... This could be the best more for him personally. This I do not doubt.

But Ron is the person who has always held himself up asa leader in the indusry, a founder, the person who innovates and created the industry we all make out living in. While he was there in the begining, he has always overstated his role. This move by Ron proves that he is not an industry leader.... and that he used his position, and lots of lackeys to create a fiction.

For every good thing Ron has done for the industry there are 3-4 other bad things...

Chalk this up as a bad thing....

I hope this ends the debate of Ron's posistion in the industry, and excactly who he is looking out for.

[The Truth Hurts]

This is like watching a bitter ex-girlfriends convention in progress.. too bad they all live in extremely fragile glass houses..



Last edited by The Truth Hurts at Jul 4 2003, 10:02 PM

[cj]

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts@Jul 4 2003, 10:02 PM
This is like watching a bitter ex-girlfriends convention in progress.. too bad they all live in extremely fragile glass houses..
that sounds a lot like a threat! :zoinks:

[The Truth Hurts]

Originally posted by cj+Jul 4 2003, 10:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Jul 4 2003, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--The Truth Hurts@Jul 4 2003, 10:02 PM
This is like watching a bitter ex-girlfriends convention in progress.. too bad they all live in extremely fragile glass houses..
that sounds a lot like a threat! :zoinks:[/b][/quote]
no threats.
just the truth.

[Mike AI]

This is like watching a bitter ex-girlfriends convention in progress..

Wouldn't that be bitter ex-wife and ex-partner convention? :D

TTH - Could you tell me what a Forensic Auditor is and how it effects the man you defend? ( as an anon)

[cj]

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

[The Truth Hurts]

I'm not here to defend anyone.
Ron is more than capable of taking care of himself.
I'm just calling bullshit on all the fucking hypocrites that jump on his ass with every single move he makes.

And, for the record, I've been in this biz every day since early 96.
I may be "anon", but I haven't been wearing blinders.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts@Jul 4 2003, 07:33 PM
I'm not here to defend anyone.
Ron is more than capable of taking care of himself.
I'm just calling bullshit on all the fucking hypocrites that jump on his ass with every single move he makes.

And, for the record, I've been in this biz every day since early 96.
I may be "anon", but I haven't been wearing blinders.
Fucking newbies...

[Timon]

Oh well... business is business.

If Ron only looks out for #1 and makes a choice which will make him more money at the expense of his competitors the only thing he can be accused of is being a shrude business man.

Ron is in this game to make money just like everyone else, you can't blame him for making a move that is in his own best interest.

Survival of the fittest.

[Rolo]

I do not know how smart it was - seams like CE is getting alot of bad press. And it will not go away as long as Acacia is still active.

If it had been a smart move (thinking that CE still likes to receive traffic from webmasters), then they would have signed, and made Acacia keep their name out of the press like the "other adult companies" who have signed.

[Timon]

Rolo, those are only assumptions and it's usually not wise to make assumptions, because they make you look stupid when you're wrong.

However, if I'd have to make an assumption I'd assume Ron did what was in his best interest, and I think he is in a much better position to judge what is in his best interest than you are.

[Rolo]

I agree, he can do whatever pleases him - it is his own business.

But since Acacia made it public, that CE signed the deal, then CE should expect some heat... This will not help their brand long term.

[Mike AI]

And, for the record, I've been in this biz every day since early 96.
I may be "anon", but I haven't been wearing blinders.

Fore the record, you only come and and post to defend Ron and CE. I have no doubt you have been around for a long time, maybe as long as Ron has.... BUt you are still anon..... :D

Timon - you are right. Ron should look after his own interest, that is what I would have done. The issue I have is Ron always holds him self out as the savior, founder, _____________ (fill in blenk) of adult internet industry.

Of course we all know its BS, but many other fell for it.... so now, it is clearly exposed that Ron is about himsel, and no one else. ( again this si fine, but don't blow smoke up our asses)

That is all.....

[*KK*]

I don't know anyone in this business who isn't in it for themselves. This isn't a welfare state lol...

I wonder just how many people would have made the same choice that Ron did, given the opportunity.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 5 2003, 09:31 AM
I don't know anyone in this business who isn't in it for themselves. This isn't a welfare state lol...

I wonder just how many people would have made the same choice that Ron did, given the opportunity.
Obviously homegrown has certainly had the longest chance and hasnt done so. So theres one that could of...but didnt.

ANd yes it all about business but the same could be said for those were guilty of coming in and making the quick buck for themselves and then leaving just as fast as they blew into town.

If you look back I dont htink many people over all wish folks like Crescent, Seth etc well.

And then you have those stupid fucks that just make a negative impace on the biz by picking up waifs at the Greyhound station and fucking them and putting it up on Toledo web pages. Thats not even thinking with your wallet thats thinking with your dick-- and certainly putting more heat on the industry over all.

Business is indeed business ... but do you think its right for someone to poison the well we all are drinking from?

[Mike AI]

I don't know anyone in this business who isn't in it for themselves. This isn't a welfare state

Depending on what the deal was, I would think anyone would have taken it. Economic Man looks out for himself, if everyone does that it makes the economy work at optimal levels.

Ron probably made the best decision.... and I would have done the same thing.

Difference is, I do not hold myself out as the leader/founder/king/pimp/player of the adult industry.

I am merely a guy trying to make a living....

Ron has always done things that benefit himself, but yet puts the industry in a tough spot - but he always managed to convince many people in the business that he was doing things not for himself, but for ALL OF US!

That is the only myth I am trying to destroy.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 5 2003, 08:13 AM
And, for the record, I've been in this biz every day since early 96.
I may be "anon", but I haven't been wearing blinders.

Fore the record, you only come and and post to defend Ron and CE. I have no doubt you have been around for a long time, maybe as long as Ron has.... BUt you are still anon..... :D

Timon - you are right. Ron should look after his own interest, that is what I would have done. The issue I have is Ron always holds him self out as the savior, founder, _____________ (fill in blenk) of adult internet industry.

Of course we all know its BS, but many other fell for it.... so now, it is clearly exposed that Ron is about himsel, and no one else. ( again this si fine, but don't blow smoke up our asses)

That is all.....
I didnt know Ron worked with AL Gore.....

[*KK*]

Michael, you've done business with Ron in the past, and you know he's going to do what suits him. Period. Lord knows he and I have a somewhat vitriolic past but I still don't see where he has 'poisoned the well' as someone said.

If that's all the poison that ever got into this well then it would be a different business entirely. One that didn't make anyone a damn dime I bet.

[BradShaw]

Funny thing is that Ron says he no longer owns ce or cecash. So why would he settle with them, would they not be after the "real" owners? haha

[gonzo]

Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 5 2003, 06:03 PM
Michael, you've done business with Ron in the past, and you know he's going to do what suits him. Period. Lord knows he and I have a somewhat vitriolic past but I still don't see where he has 'poisoned the well' as someone said.

If that's all the poison that ever got into this well then it would be a different business entirely. One that didn't make anyone a damn dime I bet.

Im with mike and Far L and even Brad on this one...we are all trying to make a living and leave being the "icon" of the industry to others.

Besides...I cant piss in the well. My dick is too small to be going around waving let alone long enough to hanging out.

Does this mean the piggy back rides are off KK?
It was a rhetorical statement as far as poisoning the well.

I was refering specifically to Ron but more in reference to the cumulate effect of all the greed heads who do drive by in this business.

Ron himself alone does little more than to piss in the well.

That alone aint gonna turn it "Big Time Green".

[BradShaw]

Odds on FM making it to Miami? I would bet he does not show his face.



Last edited by BradShaw at Jul 5 2003, 07:17 PM

[Timon]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 5 2003, 11:13 AM
Timon - you are right. Ron should look after his own interest, that is what I would have done. The issue I have is Ron always holds him self out as the savior, founder, _____________ (fill in blenk) of adult internet industry.
Good PR is just another ingredient of a successful business, can't blame someone for marketing himself as good as he can.

But you're right, he's definitely not the angel he made himself out to be and anyone stupid enough to buy his angel act in the past can clearly see the true Ron now ;-)

[Mike AI]

But you're right, he's definitely not the angel he made himself out to be and anyone stupid enough to buy his angel act in the past can clearly see the true Ron now ;-)




Only point I was making.....

[Opti]

Any regular here that has done any business with ron has probably been shafted in one way or another.. I know he has got me twice.

Whoever that anon is must be living with their head up someone's ass... People don't speak up about ron's antics often enough.. It's refeshing to see some credible people happy to post what a backstabbing untrustworthy asshole he is.

That's a funny one about how he claims he doesn't own CEcash at the first sign of any heat.. anyone remember him spouting that same line about when his scam to spam agecheck prior to selling it fell apart too. There was no shortage of money at that time.. but he still made greedy self serving decisions and left a bunch of "his people" out in the cold.. much like what he appears to have done again now.

Someone suggested other people might have done the same thing in the same position.. Where does that come from? A few might think it seems like an advantage in hindsight.. but over the last year there hasn't been a hint of any other old name shafting the industry like this.. and it is a shaft.. I hope it turns sideways on him personally :lol:

Dont let him have anything to do with your fight far-l/moff.. he will only be looking for opportunites to shaft you further.. Best defense is a good offence.. could you attack acacia on basis of Ron's agreement with them.. Don't know much about the US fair trading or restraint of trade laws, but if they can offer that deal to CE can acacia be forced to apply it industry wide possibly? At least that way everyone gets to enjoy the benefit of "ron's insurance policy"

If those non-disclosure agreements could be ruled invalid.. I wouldn't mind betting a dollar that the details in there wouldn't help acacia's long term cause either :D

[The Truth Hurts]

Whoever that anon is must be living with their head up someone's ass... People don't speak up about ron's antics often enough.. It's refeshing to see some credible people happy to post what a backstabbing untrustworthy asshole he is.


You didn't actually use the word "credible" in this thread did you?

[Timon]

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts@Jul 6 2003, 03:49 PM
You didn't actually use the word "credible" in this thread did you?
What were you thinking Opti??

TTH and "credible" don't go in the same thread!