View Full Version : What movie/book best describes the human condition
Almighty Colin
06-17-2003, 07:04 PM
What movie or book best describes the human condition?
Metaphorically, etc.
I just mentioned Lord of the Flies in Sykks thread...
not sure if it "describes the human condition" but it definitely explores human nature
Would you mind defining what you mean by desribes the human condition please?
SykkBoy
06-17-2003, 07:27 PM
I was thinking of Lord Of The Flies as well......
I'll make a threesome with the boys on L o t F... I just re-read it last year and it's still completely on the nose.
Of course (and yes, I know a ton of you might start crying about Randism but hey it's still true) ...
Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead go a long way towards describing the 'condition' currently
Diamond Jim
06-17-2003, 10:20 PM
KK in a threesome! Get the camera!
Make that a foursome since I totally agree with her (and the rest on one)...
and not just for us sick fucks of the world ....
"Hannibal"
not to be confused with that cinematic piece of drivel that masqueraded by the same name
I'd welcome you to my memory palace but .....
Well you know
Edit - p.s. after further thought I'm wrong, Hannibal is what the human condition at it's loftiest could or should ascend to,
no where near what it is currently ... and it has nothing to do with cannibalism
I'll have to look at L o t F again (it's been years since I read it), where were the whiney bastards in L o t F crying they should get something for nothing?
Last edited by Vick at Jun 17 2003, 09:45 PM
not sure if this relates to what you mean by 'human condition' but "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle has lots of points relating to the state of mankind and how we interpret & treat the gift of life.
MattK
06-17-2003, 11:16 PM
the Matrix.
how can we tell we're not in it now
:ph34r:
Timon
06-17-2003, 11:16 PM
Bud Spencer and Terrence Hill's "Fists on Safari" definately goes very deep into describing the human condition...
sarettah
06-18-2003, 12:04 AM
Tom Robbin's "Skinny Legs and All" is very appropo to the current human condition...
SykkBoy
06-18-2003, 12:12 AM
I'm working on a book called "All I Know About Life I Learned From The Hispanic Kid That Mows My Lawn" but at the rate I finish shit, it won't be finished until 2033........
:D KK... if Sykk's in consider it a go! back off DJ ;-)
As an Australian I found reading Ayn Rand gave me a new and really interesting perspective on the American Human Condition. I believe the USA is the only culture on earth able to really embrace Randism.. not saying that I think Americans agree with the philosophy, just that the American psyche can accept her more extreme ideas as plausible. Cutting what could be a long post short.. it made me realize that "American Democracy" and how you understand the word democracy is a world apart from "Australian Democracy" and what I have always understood the word to mean. I think this basic "misunderstanding" makes it difficult for Australians to empathise when so many normally friendly American folk start to talk hardline about defending democracy and/or the United States. I don't claim any greater understanding than others but I think post Ayn Rand I definitely find I "get" you guys a lot more than I used to and also find the differences much easier to accept
Has anyone else ever thought AR would be a good pisser? If you have a copy of The Virtue of Selfishness check out chapter 19, "The Argument From Intimidation" It could also be called "Internet Pissing Tactics 101" although people would have thought that was a queer title when she wrote it in 1964 :wnw: it also closely describes some opranouts debating styles to a tee
Diamond Jim
06-18-2003, 02:52 AM
Quit giving away the secrets, Opti...
The first 25 times I read Atlas Shrugged, I considered the ideals and philosophy plausible. As I've gotten older, I've come to realize that wishful thinking really doesn't help much. While I don't believe that anyone can RATIONALLY deny any of the ideals set forth in the novel, wishing the world is different than it is, is a waste of time.
We're kind of in The Shrugging of The Flies....
DamageX
06-18-2003, 05:04 AM
I didn't know being human was a condition... And I think that question is far too vague and covering a whole lot of aspects. Colin is toying with your brains. :D
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 05:07 AM
Damage,
The question is intentionally vague so that answers encapsulate what "the human condition" means to each person. A particular book or movie, for example, may have captured the essence of a particular human quality for someone better than any other.
Last edited by Colin at Jun 18 2003, 04:20 AM
Timon
06-18-2003, 05:15 AM
Colin, what do you plan to do with all the psychological profiles you are building on us?
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 05:24 AM
I'll take Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea".
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Timon@Jun 18 2003, 04:23 AM
Colin, what do you plan to do with all the psychological profiles you are building on us?
Trial database for a new dating site JR and I are working on.
So far the best matches are:
1. KK and Brad
2. PornoDoggy and Torone
I think it needs tweaking.
Timon
06-18-2003, 05:41 AM
Now I have to ask the burning question... who's MY best match?
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Timon@Jun 18 2003, 04:49 AM
Now I have to ask the burning question... who's MY best match?
We got an "Internet predator" warning flag. Apparently, JR allowed the Christian BBS to be crawled.
Timon
06-18-2003, 05:59 AM
"Internet Predator"
I like that, I might just make that my new nickname ;-)
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 06:56 AM
Opti,
Fascinating analysis.
What book would best give me an interesting perspective on the Australian Human Condition?
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by Timon@Jun 18 2003, 05:07 AM
"Internet Predator"
I like that, I might just make that my new nickname ;-)
Send me 5000 pics of hot Thai chicks in exchange .. wait, nm. You already did that ;-)
Timon
06-18-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Colin@Jun 18 2003, 06:04 AM
What book would best give me an interesting perspective on the Australian Human Condition?
The book is called:
"The Native Deportee" ;-))
Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Jun 18 2003, 05:00 PM
Quit giving away the secrets, Opti...
The first 25 times I read Atlas Shrugged, I considered the ideals and philosophy plausible. As I've gotten older, I've come to realize that wishful thinking really doesn't help much. While I don't believe that anyone can RATIONALLY deny any of the ideals set forth in the novel, wishing the world is different than it is, is a waste of time.
We're kind of in The Shrugging of The Flies....
rofl, I like that. Robin's upbeat message in his pinned thread (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4198) really struck me as a contrast to the general 2003 style forum vibe.... "The Shrugging of the Flies" seems to fit right into 2003 B)
I have a sneaky suspicion that even some of the most fanatical devotees around here feel the same as you do in real life... but its hard to be sure who is playing and who is serious around here at times! ;-)
Colin, I know it will be far easier to point out something that has given me a new personal perspective into another culture than identify something that could do the same for you with mine. Working backward from my experience I think you would first need to pick another country's flag, stick it over the stars corner of your flag and try to conceive being part of a general public that wouldn't find that a problem. For me the root difference between our societies stems from what we "feel" democracy is.. compared to the US ideals of democracy Australia looks closer to an Authoritarian than Democratic model. We have never had to fight anyone for our deomocracy.. the english set the resort up and just left us with the keys to the place one day?!?! :hic:
hmmm what to read.. "They're a Weird Mob" by John OGrady and "The Power of One" by Bryce Courtney are books with themes a lot of Australians relate to.. (both foriegn born authors too) I bet there is something better than those though. Timon sounds like he knows!
I really wish i could come up with a definitive Australian awareness activity now :)
I hope I didn't sound too pompos first up Colin... :awinky: in case it looked otherwise and at the risk of having to wear the brownose hat for the rest of the day... The more I learn about American's for myself the better I like you and the more I respect the culture.
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Opti@Jun 18 2003, 10:18 AM
I hope I didn't sound too pompos first up Colin... :awinky: in case it looked otherwise and at the risk of having to wear the brownose hat for the rest of the day... The more I learn about American's for myself the better I like you and the more I respect the culture.
Definitely not. I thought what you said was interesting.
Dianna Vesta
06-18-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by cj@Jun 17 2003, 10:19 PM
not sure if this relates to what you mean by 'human condition' but "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle has lots of points relating to the state of mankind and how we interpret & treat the gift of life.
That's a great book CJ.
Another I like, not quite a long those lines but very thought provoking in reference to human experiences- "The Experience of Nothingness" by Michael Novak
I can't leave this thread alone :D
Someone will have to nominate The Celestine Prophecies. I remember thinking at 15 years old that it must be full of shit because no two people seemed to agree on exactly what it meant. I later found that it describes group consciousness, a theory that closely matches what I had already felt was a fact for me for some time. It's comforting when I see so many 15 year old boys today are just as pig ignorant as I was :P
This isn't a book or movie but it fits this thread. has anyone ever played the board game Diplomacy (http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Board_Games/War_and_Politics/Diplomacy/)? If you can face finding out just how ruthless you Really are deep down.. get 7 seven good friends together for a game of this baby.. it looks too simple and only takes 1 minute to learn how to play but it is psychologically spine tingling with the right group of people.. Ant, Nick, Brad, JoeE, Aga, ScottPB type match would be cool... but games with a group like Mike, Colin, Ed, Serge, Billy, Buff, Forest are traditionally the ones that people remember..
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze4r2c2/Diplomacy/WHOG-1974-C.jpg
Could be seen as a Lord of the Flies simulation too I just realised.
Sharpie
06-18-2003, 06:36 PM
CJ & Dianne - I have to agree that 'the power of NOW is a facinating book. I have loaned my copy out to a couple of other people...........
It has dramaticqlly helped my STRESS LEVEL........... I wish I had read it 5 years ago!. Although I don't agree with all the Philosphy in it - there was still some great parts. I would recommend it to anyone who is having a problem with stress.
Originally posted by Opti+Jun 18 2003, 10:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Opti @ Jun 18 2003, 10:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Diamond Jim@Jun 18 2003, 05:00 PM
Quit giving away the secrets, Opti...
The first 25 times I read Atlas Shrugged, I considered the ideals and philosophy plausible. As I've gotten older, I've come to realize that wishful thinking really doesn't help much. While I don't believe that anyone can RATIONALLY deny any of the ideals set forth in the novel, wishing the world is different than it is, is a waste of time.
We're kind of in The Shrugging of The Flies....
rofl, I like that. Robin's upbeat message in his pinned thread (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4198) really struck me as a contrast to the general 2003 style forum vibe.... "The Shrugging of the Flies" seems to fit right into 2003 B)
I have a sneaky suspicion that even some of the most fanatical devotees around here feel the same as you do in real life... but its hard to be sure who is playing and who is serious around here at times! ;-)
Colin, I know it will be far easier to point out something that has given me a new personal perspective into another culture than identify something that could do the same for you with mine. Working backward from my experience I think you would first need to pick another country's flag, stick it over the stars corner of your flag and try to conceive being part of a general public that wouldn't find that a problem. For me the root difference between our societies stems from what we "feel" democracy is.. compared to the US ideals of democracy Australia looks closer to an Authoritarian than Democratic model. We have never had to fight anyone for our deomocracy.. the english set the resort up and just left us with the keys to the place one day?!?! :hic:
hmmm what to read.. "They're a Weird Mob" by John OGrady and "The Power of One" by Bryce Courtney are books with themes a lot of Australians relate to.. (both foriegn born authors too) I bet there is something better than those though. Timon sounds like he knows!
I really wish i could come up with a definitive Australian awareness activity now :)
I hope I didn't sound too pompos first up Colin... :awinky: in case it looked otherwise and at the risk of having to wear the brownose hat for the rest of the day... The more I learn about American's for myself the better I like you and the more I respect the culture.[/b][/quote]
Opti, I think you have pinned the right author to give the best idea of the australian human condition ....
Bryce Courtney, although he writes fiction, is the most incredible author. His accuracy and attention to detail is that of a biographer although his stories are only loosely based on real events.
I have read the power of one, but I think that "Four Fires" has a broader range of australian themes, probably just cause its do damn long ... his books all have 'underdog triumphs' stories, which we refer to in Australia as 'The Aussie Battlers' - every day australians who bust their ass in blue collar jobs, trying to support a family, etc. Four Fires covers several generations of an australian family living in a rural small town, the family runs the garbage truck run in the town, 17 year old daughter gets pregnant, one of the sons is gay .... the book shows the social and personal struggles these issues bring in the 50's, 60's & 70's through to modern day australia.
Like opti said though, its hard to pin point a book from your own culture that makes sense to another.
Sharpie, reading that book has formed part of my 'life change' LOL
I have had such a complete turn around in my thinking, and how I manage myself on a daily basis. It makes you want to share it with others ... but like it says in the book, if you aren't ready for the information, it won't help you ...
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by cj@Jun 18 2003, 06:28 PM
Opti, I think you have pinned the right author to give the best idea of the australian human condition ....
Bryce Courtney, although he writes fiction, is the most incredible author. His accuracy and attention to detail is that of a biographer although his stories are only loosely based on real events.
My reading list is growing faster than I can read 'em.
Ironhorse
06-18-2003, 07:24 PM
JRR Tolkien - The Silmarillion
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by cj@Jun 18 2003, 06:28 PM
Like opti said though, its hard to pin point a book from your own culture that makes sense to another.
Approximations welcome. :-)
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Ironhorse@Jun 18 2003, 06:32 PM
JRR Tolkien - The Silmarillion
Haven't read it. Why so?
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Opti@Jun 18 2003, 04:59 PM
This isn't a book or movie but it fits this thread. has anyone ever played the board game Diplomacy (http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Board_Games/War_and_Politics/Diplomacy/)?
I've never played but heard about it years ago and have always been interested in playing. Do you have to have 7 players or can you play with less?
How long does it take to play a game?
Peaches
06-18-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Colin@Jun 18 2003, 07:30 PM
My reading list is growing faster than I can read 'em.
Hehehe - ditto! "Four Fires" looks like it might be a tough one to get locally though. :angry:
Almighty Colin
06-18-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Peaches+Jun 18 2003, 06:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Jun 18 2003, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Colin@Jun 18 2003, 07:30 PM
My reading list is growing faster than I can read 'em.
Hehehe - ditto! "Four Fires" looks like it might be a tough one to get locally though. :angry:[/b][/quote]
Peaches,
There's this new thing called the internet and you can order books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670910627/qid=1055982169/sr=12-11/102-5328959-6598539?v=glance&s=books) on it.
:-P
LOL
ya just beat me ..
it appears as though opti and i spelt the name wrong ... or he's been renamed!
792 pages
HAHAHAHHAHA
sorry colin :P
Peaches
06-18-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Colin@Jun 18 2003, 08:10 PM
There's this new thing called the internet and you can order books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670910627/qid=1055982169/sr=12-11/102-5328959-6598539?v=glance&s=books) on it.
:-P
Yes, Goober (and Gooberette to cj :awinky: ), I know that, but when I pulled it up (your link's not working) it was out of stock and the 2 places it showed to buy it new from didn't have many ratings (IOW, I'm a little hesitant about sending my CC number to them.....). :nyanya:
Four Fires
by Bryce Courtenay <--- -1
***
I would normally back Amazon to spell an authors name correctly ahead of us Cj... can't believe I have been underestimating us like that :)
And I think I would have said Four Fires too if I had been able to recall the name!
Colin, I've just been surfing for an online version of the game and had a recollection of the the very first thing I ever did with the internet (and it wasnt type SEX into the addressbar)
I got on the web about 3 hours after windows95 was officially launched on August 24, 1995.. but using Win3.12 ... I remember it was that night becasue people were lined up outside Hardly Normal stores waiting for midnight so they could buy the first copies available anywhere in the world. I think the price was AU$187 as I almost went and got it myself as at least it promised "easier internet connection".. (I still thought windows was a slow menu system for stupid people at the time and paying any price for it was silly) So I take the smart option and spend six hours dicking around to get windows 3 installed and internet connected (I had stayed DOS up until that night too) everything would have been OK but this idiot mate kept insisting the pc needed a Wind Sock to get onto the internet... of course I dismissed him as a lunatic.. but eventually did DIR the flight simulator diskettes just in case there was a Wind Sock there that could somehow make it all better... Thankgod my lunatic friend finally got jack of me telephoning and drove over with a shiny new winsock.dll file on diskette and at 3.00am he explained that http://altavista.digital.com was the source of all knowledge... I pushed that sucker out of the way still jabbering about gophers and how I must know all about the archies or I would be totally lost on the web... I typed "diplomacy" into the email subscribe form and waited a few minutes whilst the error message screen painted itself.. I repeated that maybe 5 times before I read the error message, and did my search for diplomacy in the search form.... I may as well of stuck with my first search using the email subscribe form as I recall.. then I typed SEX into the address bar. :agrin:
What was your question again? ;-))
there is 7 entities players can be... Russia, Germany, Turkey, Italy, France and England. some are strategically weaker than others... and I think we found the best low number of players was 5 people with 2 people controlling 2 countries instead of 1. I think the most we ever played at once would have about 25 people in 7 teams of 3 or 4..
A typical game lasts about 3 hours.. An epic could be stretched out to 5 or 6 hours if I recall... but I am worried about my memories... it is a very easy game to play but the rules are maybe a bit more than the 1 minutes learning time I suggested for a new player earlier Diplomacy Tutorial (http://ry4an.org/diptutor/mgp00001.html) I guess we never taught anyone... they could watch and work it out.
We started playing Diplomacy as about 10 of us would always meet up for for a drink on saturdays after cricket during summer and it's the sort of game you can still play whilst eating and drinking and talking and hanging out listening to music. Sometimes 20 or 30 people would turn up and friends kept it up on and off for 12-15 years.
I am sure it sounds like a geeky way for 20 somethings to spend a saturday night but I can assure you with all the negotiation, sleazing, deal making, gambling, backstabbing and changing alliances happening as a sub text all night those Saturdays were always entertaining. Especially when new people would first play :-) Most people find it surprisingly enlightening. And, it makes everyone communicate with everyone else that is there :)
Damn I am want to have one of those nights again!
http://ry4an.org/diptutor/mgp00002.png
My daughter Liana is 12 today.. I'm off for some birthday cake ;-)
I might even return with another essay for this thread in time for breakfast (maybe a point will form just like dreyfus and mash if I press on!) :bwave:
sarettah
06-19-2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Opti@Jun 18 2003, 04:59 PM
IThis isn't a book or movie but it fits this thread. has anyone ever played the board game Diplomacy (http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Board_Games/War_and_Politics/Diplomacy/)?
Used to play that a lot with some of my friends... Long long time ago...Like 1981-82....
Yes, ruthlessness defintiely comes in..lol....
Originally posted by sarettah+Jun 19 2003, 02:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ Jun 19 2003, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Opti@Jun 18 2003, 04:59 PM
IThis isn't a book or movie but it fits this thread. has anyone ever played the board game Diplomacy (http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Board_Games/War_and_Politics/Diplomacy/)?
Used to play that a lot with some of my friends... Long long time ago...Like 1981-82....
Yes, ruthlessness defintiely comes in..lol....[/b][/quote]
:rokk: exxxxxcellent Sarettah... '81 was when I discovered it.
I wasn't going to post this.. but I keep finding myself thinking about it. Having actually played, I can bounce the idea off you without too much confusing background explanation too. :wnw:
There is a fairly active community of online players, mostly based on a free sourcecode script that manages turns, game phase timelimits, processes player's orders emails and calculates the score. The script license allows any usage, including renaming and reselling it.
Most Diplomacy sites are using a move by email format. Being so anonomyous, players backstab each other too often, games take weeks and players drop out regularly.. On Line Versions are good in most aspects. They just miss out on the personality interaction and reliable game speed of the board version.
Using the same engine and rule structure, what about a game that starts in 1991 instead of 1901? And is loosely based around the internet porn industry.
There could be battle scenarios like "first team to get a pay per click affiliate proggy online".. Everyone would start with just 1 videotext service.. 300 cam/phone operators and a warez BBS in Fall of 1991 and have to do it before 97... or the game ends with no winner and FM moons those that dared to try :moon:
Use the same shape of europe and same 18 strategic positions to fight over but present it as a map of soemthing else.. (more on what later)
Instead of countries the 7 main player identities are webmaster portals/boards like Oprano, Xbiz, GG&Jim, GFY, ANS, PLR, Netpond, Voltars, Porn City et al... each teams orders can be automated based on voting of the team. The existing script already provides for 3 levels of team member.. which would be something like troops, war council and Commander in Chief (just using mil terms for understanding.. I was thinking more along lines of a 5oprano theme of Hitmen, Wiseguys and the Don)
Each team has to have one Commander/Don who alone has personal moral responsibility for control of the button to make and break alliances and deals.. If FM promises Lensman support for an attack against Oprano but betrays that to help Serge wipe out the GFY attackers... it wont feel like "just a game" for very long (hopefully) >:)))
The war council/Wise Guys are the teams authorised reps to negotiate deals with other teams. The team Commander decides how many war council members are used.. and how much extra value to use on their votes.
Treason is punishible by DOS but each team gets one spy with a license to sleeze.
Aaaargh lots more than planned is spewing forth, too much more to go and this is already more than I can usaully take reading from one person so will leave it there for now.
Oh yeah... if Gary reads this, I would really like to launch the board game version under brand name SEX.COM ... you bring the domain and 40% of this could be all yours!
PORNOGRAPHY.COM would be a nice name too Webfather!! ;)
sarettah
06-22-2003, 08:01 PM
sorry I missed this the first time around Opti...lol....
It could work... possibly a limited market...
Don't forget to throw Crescent and all that in there... Have to have FTC hitting folks for dialers periodically, things like that...
Don't forget the CC companies and processors too... lol.....
Could get real complicated real fast :)
Yeah that was just an online game.. the SEX.COM board game would have different market sectors as the playas I would think :)) Be good to talk about this over a beer sometime.. I love the idea that is rattling around in my head :D
I am off to a Chinese restuarant for lunch with a couple of webmasters... the plan is to gorge ourselves and drink much beer.. I guess that's it for my Monday.. :cryin:
:bwave:
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