Winning the war on terror?

[Almighty Colin]

The annual report on terrorism issued by the US State Department recorded the lowest number of terrorist attacks worldwide since the 1960's.

State Department counterterrorism coordinator Cofer Black reported that over 3000 al-Qaeda operatives have been arrested.

According to the report more than 1/2 of al Qaeda's leadership has been killed or captured.
Also noted, most of those operatives were planning new attacked at the time of capture or death.

[Almighty Colin]

On Tuesday, another top al Qaeda operative was captured in Pakistan along with 5 other suspects.

[sextoyking]

Colin,

Right on. Get those suckers.

[Almighty Colin]

Two more.

Police arrested suspected al Qaeda members Jawad al-Bashar and Farzand Shah late Friday in Pakistan's Baluchistan province.

[Torone]

It takes a 'cowboy' to do a roundup...

[Mike AI]

I have NO doubt that we are winning the war on terrorism... However, I think we have a long way to go... the final solution will be to bring stability, prosperity, an some form of democracy/free market economics to the region. That way people have something to do with their lives, besides get mad and want to blow things up.

Bush has done a wonderful job with this respect - anyone who says otherwise is a simple partisan.....

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 3 2003, 12:17 PM
I have NO doubt that we are winning the war on terrorism... However, I think we have a long way to go... the final solution will be to bring stability, prosperity, an some form of democracy/free market economics to the region. That way people have something to do with their lives, besides get mad and want to blow things up.

Bush has done a wonderful job with this respect - anyone who says otherwise is a simple partisan.....
Really? If you only want to look at the very short-term, I suppose you can make arguments to support the statement. If you want to take it further than the end of this year, IMHO it's a very weakly constructed assertion. And I think attempting to dismiss anyone who questions your statement as a partisan is in fact nothing more than an indication of a blatantly partisan attitude on your part.

I am glad to see the numbers of alQuaida suspects being rolled up. I believe that goes a long way toward stemming any immediate danger from THAT element. However, we aren't talking about the Iraqi army here - the foe we're up against is far more elusive. Who the fuck knows what beasts are lurking in the shadows within the shadows?

But concerns like thost Mubarak of Egypt expressed - that the war in and subsequent occupation of Iraq may in fact "spawn 100 bin Ladens" (or words to that effect) are not partisan - they are a different and perhaps more long term approach to the same data. Concerns about how the nature and the shape of the occupation of Iraq affect the overall attitude of the "Arab Street" are not partisan statements - they are a different and perhaps more long-term approach to the same data. Concerns about the ramifications of unleashing previously repressed ethnic/religious/political ideologies and fervor - call it the Iranian or Yugoslavian factor, if you will - are not partisan - they are a different and perhaps more long term approach to the same data. Not all skepticism about Rummy's assertion that the military phase of the Afghanistan operations are over - nor skepticism about the degree of control we or the "government" have over the country - are partisan - they are a different and perhaps more long term approach to the same data.

IMHO blanket rhetorical statements like "the final solution will be to bring stability, prosperity, and some form of democracy/free market economics to the region" don't come close to addressing all the issues involved. I'm not dismissing the idea that greater economic stability and opportunity could over time decrease the appeal of radical fundamentalism, but thinking it is a panacea is simplistic in the extreme. The idea that "some form of democracy" is the answer flies in the face of the political reality in the Arab world, where democracy has been a very effective tool for the very people we are opposing - the radical fundamentalists. IMHO, it just ain’t that simple.

I am not disputing the possibility that Bush has done a wonderful job, and I am certainly not suggesting that the facts indicate that he's done a bad job on this particular issue. I am simply saying that it is way too fucking early to tell how we are doing in the war on terror. This is essentially a guerrilla war, and in that kind of combat short-term victories often turn out to be far less than they seem.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at May 3 2003, 01:23 PM

[Mike AI]

PD you are just a tremendous pessimist.... With you the glass is not HALF empty, hell for YOU the glass is shattered and we are all going to step in the shards, and will all die from massive blood loss.

We can all posulate what COULD happen in the future, hell maybe terrorists will befriend space aliens, and get UFO technology and then fly around obliterating all of us with ray guns.

But as of right now, there are a lot more dead bad guys, we are rolling up a lot of top al quada operatives, and have people wanting to work with us. ( not because they like us, but they fear us, and want to keep power of their countries and not end up like the last 2 enemies of the US)

The Bush team has done an outstanding job on the war on terrorism... better then any democrate would do.

You can criticze Bush for many things.... economy, civil rights, and other domestic issues, but the handling of National Security and war on terrorism has been SPLENDID!!!

You really think we would be safe if we had Gore as President? HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mike AI]

Oh and I am not deluded that stablizing Iraq will be easy - we will probably lose more American soldiers keeping the peach and rebuilding the rest of this year then we did in the actual war.

OUr military is awesome at breaking things and killing people, but rebuilding places like Iraq is a huge mess... but one we will eventually get straight - even if it takes 30 years.

And to be honest, if we have to deal with terrorist attacks in Iraq and Afganistan ( taking pop shots), it is better then having to deal with terrorist attacks on OUR OWN SOIL!!!

PD you will never change your mind - you are a pessimist, and your vision of the world is clouded with partisanship....

One day I hope you can learn to be OPTIMISTIC.... fortunately most Americans do not share your views... Amercians by our very nature are Optimisitic and hopeful people...

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 3 2003, 01:49 PM
PD you are just a tremendous pessimist.... With you the glass is not HALF empty, hell for YOU the glass is shattered and we are all going to step in the shards, and will all die from massive blood loss.

We can all posulate what COULD happen in the future, hell maybe terrorists will befriend space aliens, and get UFO technology and then fly around obliterating all of us with ray guns.

But as of right now, there are a lot more dead bad guys, we are rolling up a lot of top al quada operatives, and have people wanting to work with us. ( not because they like us, but they fear us, and want to keep power of their countries and not end up like the last 2 enemies of the US)

The Bush team has done an outstanding job on the war on terrorism... better then any democrate would do.

You can criticze Bush for many things.... economy, civil rights, and other domestic issues, but the handling of National Security and war on terrorism has been SPLENDID!!!

You really think we would be safe if we had Gore as President? HAHAHAHAHAHA
Mike ... take the implicit advice you gave the other day when you pointed out that Dig posts rather than reads. Reread what I wrote, and pretend that it was written by someone new to the board. Please note that I SIMPLY STATED THAT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE POINT OF VIEW. You seem to be accusing me of being a pessimist in this instance simply because I do not accept your premise that Bush's handling of the war on terror cannot be criticized or questioned. I’ve always thought that realism exists someplace in between optimism and pessimism; I’ve also noticed that it’s an idea that is disputed by folks so blindly partisan or so simple minded that they can’t see the world as anything but black and white, good or bad, right or wrong. Once again – just an opinion.

If I had made the statement that the Bush Administration had "doomed the fate of the country by its foolhardy policies in Iraq" I could understand your response. If I had said that the Administration had "engaged in grossly misdirected conduct of the war on terror" I could understand your response. What I said is that it is far too early in the war on terror to begin to declare victory, or to even appropriately label policies "good" or "bad." The strongest personal opinion I expressed in that post is "<u>IMHO, it just ain’t that simple."</u> I didn’t say what Bush has done hasn’t worked, or won’t work – I said it was far too early to start heaping extravagant praise. That will probably not be acceptable to those who consider GW the next best thing to the (first or second, depending upon your personal beliefs) coming of the Messiah. As long as it’s equally unacceptable to the people who believe that GW is the anti-Messiah, I’m quite comfortable with my attitude.

I'm going to leave the entire Toronesque "terrorists will befriend space aliens" statement alone - well, mostly alone. :D If I had speculated that the reason Powell was in Syria was to stabilize the situation in the Middle East so we can invade Canada and prevent them from threatening our national security by decriminalizing marijuana, your comment might have made some sense.

As far as the trite and blatantly partisan "You really think we would be safe if we had Gore as President?" - I think that’s a line of discussion that only morons and ideologues would feel comfortable engaging in. However, since it’s out there I think that if Al Gore were President today, IMHO conservatives would revert back to being just as hysterically shrill – as pessimistic, if you will – as they were four years ago.

In other words, they would trade places with the left, put on their sackcloth and sit in the ashes, and wail and lament the impending doom. Just like they will in 18 months.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at May 3 2003, 03:45 PM