Protestors mindlessly shouting

[CDSmith]

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

-- John Stuart Mill





I truly believe this world will be a better place once we are minus one Saddam Insane. Once he's gone, ask the Iraqi people if it was worth it.



Last edited by CDSmith at Mar 27 2003, 12:05 AM

[Vick]

Excellent Quote!!!

[cj]

Originally posted by CDSmith@Mar 27 2003, 01:04 AM
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

-- John Stuart Mill





I truly believe this world will be a better place once we are minus one Saddam Insane. Once he's gone, ask the Iraqi people if it was worth it.
what a contradiction!!

so if you are against war you have nothing to fight for??!?! I'd say the protestors feel they have something to fight for ...

just because someone isn't fighting for the same cause as you, they are miserable with no chance of being free??

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA



:zzz:

[voodooman]

Anyone see Martin Sheen protesting on tv???

hahahaha,


Now, THAT is the single most fucked up thing I have
seen yet from any protester.

The guy plays the President of the United States on
The West Wing, and then protests the war in his spare
time???

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by cj@Mar 27 2003, 01:35 AM
so if you are against war you have nothing to fight for??!?! I'd say the protestors feel they have something to fight for ...

just because someone isn't fighting for the same cause as you, they are miserable with no chance of being free??

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA



:zzz:
Keep laughing fool.


Like most of your kind, you entirely miss the overall point of the message as it applies to this war. Saddam represents opression for his people, that is indesputably true, but he also represents a threat to world peace. Peaceniks are so deluded that they will actually argue on Saddam's behalf citing what a peaceful man he is, when in fact he hates the Jews, he supports and rewards terrorism, and has horded powerful deadly weapons, of which he cannot be safely trusted to own.

Most thinking people know all that.

The point that you missed out on is that some things in this world are worth fighting against. If you don't have the balls to stand up and at least support those who are fighting against all that, if you are the type that shouts for peace at all costs, then you are the subject of what Sir Mill was talking about.

Now continue on your merry way, laughing like a drooling mental patient at medication time.

[Rox]

Peaceniks are so deluded that they will actually argue on Saddam's behalf citing what a peaceful man he is

Citation, please? I've read a LOT of stuff over the past few months, and I've yet to see ONE person or group call Saddam Hussein "peaceful." If you can come up with a reference, I'd love to see it (so I can stay WAY the hell away from whomever this person/these people might be, because they're clearly out of their fucking minds!).

[Alex @ ISPrime]

CD we had the same problem here as well http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/27/sprj.irq....iwar/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/27/sprj.irq.antiwar/index.html)

[kath]

Originally posted by Rox@Mar 27 2003, 05:13 PM
Peaceniks are so deluded that they will actually argue on Saddam's behalf citing what a peaceful man he is

Citation, please? I've read a LOT of stuff over the past few months, and I've yet to see ONE person or group call Saddam Hussein "peaceful." If you can come up with a reference, I'd love to see it (so I can stay WAY the hell away from whomever this person/these people might be, because they're clearly out of their fucking minds!).
All of those who think Saddam is a peaceful man - raise your hands?!?

*quietly and off to the side* Arms....ready!!!!!!

:kapow:
:kapow:
:kapow:

Now that we've got THOSE idiots out of the way...... lol

Yeah....I hadn't heard anyone say that either, but if anyone EVER called Saddam peaceful - they just gotta be shot. We can debate war all day long - hell, all year long - but I don't think there are many who aren't brainwashed by Saddam himself that would call him a peaceful man - lol

:nyanya:

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by CDSmith@Mar 27 2003, 08:06 PM

Most thinking people know all that.

So, you're one of those "thinking" type people just because you wave your China-made flag around and sing "God Bless America" louder than anyone else?

Are you also one of those "thinking" type people who think only your opinion should matter and anyone who's opinion is different is un-American or sucking Sadam's cock?

I love how people try to prove their point by saying such objective things as "obviously, someone with half a brain...." or "someone who's not a complete retard...."

I'm glad you're not only a thinker, but a mindreader and you automatically know what others are thinking...well, we need your type out there on the battlefield son, so suit up and put your thinking and mindreading to use.


I just pray those soldiers fighting over in Iraq now recieve better treatment after this war than previous generations of veterans...another trip to a VA Hospital with my father-in-law and another bit of respect lost for those who are supposed to be taking care of our veterans :( oops, got off topic there again...damn my non-thinking mentality.....

[CDSmith]

Well, I read quite a bit on various boards, especially lately. I have read more than a few posts, mostly from the more extreme end of the peace movement, who have said such things as "Saddam/Iraq has never done any harm whatsoever to the USA"..... "Iraq for certain had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11"...... "Saddam Iraq have NO ties to Al Qaida/terrorists".... "Saddam has threatened NO ONE"....... "He is/was complying with the inspectors!!"....... and my personal favorite "There is no proof that Saddam has killed his own people!"

All those quotes and more are on various boards in past threads, such as GFY, porncity, and a few others where "anti-US/wartalk" rages on and on and on. Some of the dumbass mindless drivel and slanted uber-warped arguments are......amazing, to say the least.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Rox@Mar 27 2003, 08:13 PM
Peaceniks are so deluded that they will actually argue on Saddam's behalf citing what a peaceful man he is

Citation, please? I've read a LOT of stuff over the past few months, and I've yet to see ONE person or group call Saddam Hussein "peaceful." If you can come up with a reference, I'd love to see it (so I can stay WAY the hell away from whomever this person/these people might be, because they're clearly out of their fucking minds!).
Don't you get it yet?

1. If you oppose this war you are antiAmerican, antisemitic, and antiwoman, proterrorist and pro-oppression.

2. Fears of Saddam are grounded in fact. Fear of open spectulation by members of the Bush Administration and those close to it about who's next means you are probably described by number 1.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Mar 27 2003, 08:29 PM

[CDSmith]

Syk BOY..... I have looked after and given medical care to more veterans than you'll ever dream of knowing.


And yes, the points I mentioned are known to be true by most people with half a brain.

Let's look at those few points again.....

"Saddam represents opression for his people, that is indesputably true, but he also represents a threat to world peace..... he hates the Jews, he supports and rewards terrorism, and has horded powerful deadly weapons, of which he cannot be safely trusted to own."

Hmm... I don't see where anyone would want to raise a fuckus about anything in that paragraph.



Fact is, I want peace just as much as the next person. I'm not all that big on seeing young people getting killed and injured either, and Syk...... I'm way beyond someone like you calling me "son", so put your dick away.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 27 2003, 07:27 PM
Don't you get it yet?

1. If you oppose this war you are antiAmerican, antisemitic, and antiwoman, proterrorist and pro-oppression.

2. Fears of Saddam are grounded in fact. Fear of open spectulation by members of the Bush Administration and those close to it about who's next means you are probably described by number 1.
Why spew such drivel?


I was actually beginning to respect your opinion on porncity, but man, that's screwed.


Thumbs down doggy.

[CDSmith]

The central point of Mill's quote is that sometimes, just sometimes... there are things in this world worth fighting...... and there are things in this world worth fighting for to preserve.

Period.




If you don't agree that's your right. If you choose to openly degrade and desparage your country's leader(s) and/or throw rocks at your country's service men & women and burn your flag in protest then just be happy you live in a country where others have fought and died to preserve your *right* to do so. Others in less tolerant countries have been killed, mutilated, or had their whole family killed for less.



Last edited by CDSmith at Mar 27 2003, 07:39 PM

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by CDSmith@Mar 27 2003, 08:31 PM
Syk BOY..... I have looked after and given medical care to more veterans than you'll ever dream of knowing.


And yes, the points I mentioned are known to be true by most people with half a brain.

Let's look at those few points again.....

"Saddam represents opression for his people, that is indesputably true, but he also represents a threat to world peace..... he hates the Jews, he supports and rewards terrorism, and has horded powerful deadly weapons, of which he cannot be safely trusted to own."

Hmm... I don't see where anyone would want to raise a fuckus about anything in that paragraph.



Fact is, I want peace just as much as the next person. I'm not all that big on seeing young people getting killed and injured either, and Syk...... I'm way beyond someone like you calling me "son", so put your dick away.
Sorry, I should have seperated the afterthought, that wasn't about you...I just thinks it's fucking disgusting how our veterans get treated in this country while everyone talks about supporting our soldiers...

No one is raising a "fuckus" about what's in the paragraph, but I don't recall seeing anyone ever calling Sadam "peaceful" I, too, would like citations of that...

You're beyond someone like me calling you "son"? nope, sorry, but nobody is beyond that...it's better than "sonofabitch"...it's better than "pinhead"...or is this more of that 'thinking" thing?

[RawAlex]

CDSmith, your sarcasm detector isn't working.

One of the things I have noticed especially here on Oprano is the use of the "the you must be" arguement.

if you are against legislation banning abortion, "then you must be a baby killer".

if you don't support bush, "then you must be a commie"

if you don't support the war in Iraq, "the you must be saddam bum buddy"

I am seeing more and more extremism, and people trying to push that extremism onto others. Some people have a VERY extreme point about bush, the war, whatever - but because I don't ENTIRELY agree with you doesn't make me a polar opposite. Wake up and realize that between the two points, there is a TON of great...

I don't like Bush (I don't like the way the election worked out...), I am not a big fan of the war, although I think it had to be done. For me it is a matter of timing, this didn't have to happen NOW, it could have happened next month.... nobody has really brought any proof to the table to support the date (and when I say nobody, I am taking about the US and British Administrations, those people sponsoring this bomb-fest).

None of this makes me a commie or saddam's bum buddy or anything else. I am just living in the grey area of reality.

Alex

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by CDSmith+Mar 27 2003, 08:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CDSmith @ Mar 27 2003, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Mar 27 2003, 07:27 PM
Don't you get it yet?

1. If you oppose this war you are antiAmerican, antisemitic, and antiwoman, proterrorist and pro-oppression.

2. Fears of Saddam are grounded in fact. Fear of open spectulation by members of the Bush Administration and those close to it about who's next means you are probably described by number 1.
Why spew such drivel?


I was actually beginning to respect your opinion on porncity, but man, that's screwed.


Thumbs down doggy.[/b][/quote]
Drivel? Is there really a higher percentage of drivel in my post than there is in "Now continue on your merry way, laughing like a drooling mental patient at medication time" in your response to CJ?

I agree with this point whole-heartedly, btw: "Some of the dumbass mindless drivel and slanted uber-warped arguments are......amazing, to say the least."

The thing about it is, dumbass mindless drivel is not limited to the anitwar side. I'm not saying yours are - but they are there.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Mar 27 2003, 08:42 PM

You're beyond someone like me calling you "son"? nope, sorry, but nobody is beyond that...it's better than "sonofabitch"...it's better than "pinhead"...or is this more of that 'thinking" thing?
Mind you, I'm not calling you those names either ;)
I re-read that and see how that can be misconstrued...

[Rox]

Sykk, I hear ya... My father was a disabled vet (2 wars, mind you), and I've always had nothing but PRIDE and LOVE for our troops. We ought to be ashamed of what little they get in return for their service and defense. This is a sore spot for me...

Here's my reply this morning to my older sis (and everyone on her FWD list too LOL), to that "the average soldier is 19" email that's going around:

<span style='color:red'>Let's hope this war-that's-not-a-war ends soon and these boys (and girls) can come home safe & sound. They need every bit of support we can give them -- right now and even more when they return ($15 billon in Veterans' Affairs cuts to make room for the proposed tax cuts -- which help the RICH? Nice way to thank our soldiers, resident Bush!).

http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/001091.php

Whether or not you support the POLICY that put our loved ones in harm's way (I don't), please write to your Congresscritters and make it clear to them that the men and women who fight under the Stars & Stripes deserve better than they receive from the government whose ideals they've sworn to uphold.

http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Prayers are always good. Exercising your Constitutional right of free speech to bring your grievances to the attention of your elected representatives is even better. Of all the things our soldiers fight for, it is the most important -- and also the most threatened these days.

On another note, does anybody remember the song, "19" by Paul Hardcastle, from the 80s? If you want to hear it, the MP3 is here:

http://www.mp3dimension.com/dl/9196/19.mp3

And here are the lyrics (some frightening statistics!)
[snipped -- Opranauts are smart enough to find the lyrics themselves]

For their commitment and their sacrifices, the troops fighting today and all those who have fought and died throughout the history of our great nation have my undying support and gratitude (though I will not say the same for the politicians who start wars and never risk their own asses or those of their children). Whatever we may do for our military men & women will never come close to what they deserve in repayment for their defense. KICK ASS, America's Finest! YOU are the best this country has to offer! Come home soon and safe...</span>

As for the wit & wisdom of the average American (gad, much less someone from GFY), well, I don't doubt that they're misinformed, misled and egregiously undereducated. If half of these people made the effort to think for themselves, it might not be so painful to try and hold a conversation with them.

I generally don't care if someone's on "my" side of any issue or not. All I care about is that whatever opinion they hold, they've arrived there by actually DOING the work, research or whatever and THINKING it through for themselves. That deserves respect. Mindless parroting of a bunch of media crap and mudslinging isn't worth my time & effort to engage in debate.

What's that saying? "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person!"

For the record CD, I don't count you among them, btw. :rokk:



Last edited by Rox at Mar 27 2003, 06:58 PM

[cj]

Originally posted by CDSmith@Mar 27 2003, 08:06 PM
Keep laughing fool.


Like most of your kind,
there's your first mistake, 'my kind' happens to be something you know nothing about ... obviously.

my post said nothing that should have sent you off on a mindless rant about how saddam has to be stoppped ... i was pointing out that the logic in your quote was silly, it contridicted itself in the same sentence. you just started randomly babbling the same old crap we've all heard a thousand times. The soapbox is getting worn out.

I never once said anything about whether I want peace or war or whether I am a terrorist or a nun ... you assumed immediately that I was a 'peacenik', because I pointed out a lack of logic in your post ...

And you finish it off by calling me a drooling mental patient?!? I think somebody needs to go back to school and learn how to read!

:bwave:


its YOUR KIND that prevents progress and free thinking because you automatically jump on the ass of ANYONE who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with your narrow minded view of life.

read back over my post, I'd love to hear you explain what on earth you read into it that made you launch into the 'suddam must go' babble? Oh and feel free to give points and reasons with your explanation, and see if you can do it without resorting to name calling. I love trying to understand the views of others - even those with too much time on the soapbox.

[originalheather]

I'm not against this war, really, and I disagree with CJ on some things, but CD...if you want to be taken seriously, change your attitude. You made yourself and others that might have agreed with you look bad.

One thing CJ is NOT is a fool.

That was a stupid, tactless and totally unfounded remark.

[Almighty Colin]

Saddam is not peaceful but no nation has been entirely peaceful that I am aware of.

Certainly not the nations that most of us are in.

The coalition is not attacking Saddam to make the world more peaceful. It is attacking Saddam so he can't attack us or our interests, which is itself a non-peaceful act.

There is no good and evil. Just "us" and "them".



Last edited by Colin at Mar 28 2003, 05:46 AM

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by originalheather@Mar 28 2003, 01:07 AM
I'm not against this war, really, and I disagree with CJ on some things, but CD...if you want to be taken seriously, change your attitude. You made yourself and others that might have agreed with you look bad.

One thing CJ is NOT is a fool.

That was a stupid, tactless and totally unfounded remark.
Riiight.... I post a quote that is a direct commentary on the mindset of some of those extreme protestors out there that actually DO appear to be mindless parrots, whereupon this CJ person jumps in laughing, mocking and scoffing, and *I* am the one that risks not being taken seriously?


Uh, okay.


I've been posting regularly on about 8 different webmaster boards dating back to early 99, and have had no trouble whatsoever being taken "seriously". This is the first time I've seen anything from this CJ. What should that tell you?

[PornoDoggy]

That you haven't been posting here very long?

[ulfie]

CD, it's a good idea to learn the players before entering the game. CJ's been around a long time and made a lot of money for a lot of people including herself I'm sure. I like you, I like her, I'm just telling you, don't jump to the conclusion somebody is a "nobody" because you've never heard of them.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Colin@Mar 28 2003, 04:42 AM
The coalition is not attacking Saddam to make the world more peaceful. It is attacking Saddam so he can't attack us or our interests, which is itself a non-peaceful act.
I think you're wrong. The coalition certainly IS removing Saddam in order to better ensure peace in the future. That is, however, just one reason among several, which includes the reason you just mentioned.

I'm sure the list of reasons is quite huge by now.


Your comment "which in itself is a non-peaceful act" grates a little too. The piece I quoted above goes directly to that point...... the fact that SOME things in life are worth fighting for. Preservation of future peace and freedom in the world are such things.

[CDSmith]

Okay, whatever.

I obviously didn't care for the mocking laughing foolish tone of CJ's first reply to me here. That much is plain. Anyone that knows me knows that when I post something of a seriious nature I don't react with great respect to those that don't show me the same courtesy.


I pretty much give what I get.


I'm usually never willing to slam the door completely shut on anyone though.




Sykkboy ---- Fair enough, I must have misread your tone to me as well then. Fact is, I hold our elderly war vets in very high regard. Many of my family's ranks are or were vets. I agree with your point on that.

The focus of this post was pointed at certain protestors, some of whom have their thinking and priorities way out of whack on this war issue. Throwing rocks at nat'l guardsmen, provoking police officers, likening their president to Hitler etc etc..... of course the above quote was for them.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 28 2003, 04:59 PM
That you haven't been posting here very long?
You have no clue how long I've been reading this board.

None.

[cj]

The focus of this post was pointed at certain protestors, some of whom have their thinking and priorities way out of whack on this war issue. Throwing rocks at nat'l guardsmen, provoking police officers, likening their president to Hitler etc etc..... of course the above quote was for them.
------

CD, I entirely agree
Many of them are complete morons with nothing better to do with their time than vandalize public property with the excuse that its 'a free country and we can protest whenever we want'

Unfortunately for the peace movement, and for the few who do have a good argument, they will rarely be heard over the extremists. But it doesn't make their fight for what they believe any less valid than those of us who do support the war.

[Anthony]

I heard there are Emu farms up there in Manitoba.

Anyone thinking of getting in with me on a farm?

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by CDSmith@Mar 28 2003, 05:58 PM
This is the first time I've seen anything from this CJ. What should that tell you?


Well, CD, I'm not sure how the above fits with You have no clue how long I've been reading this board. , but I'll take your word for it.

Frankly, you make sweeping generalizations about the peace movement and anyone who disagrees with you position on the subject, and then become vitriolic when someone questions your view.

Equating everyone who opposes this war with someone who would defend Saddam's regime is no more valid than those who point out the connections between Bush/Cheney/et al., the oil industry, and Iraq.

There are peace demonstrators who resort to violence in the cause of peace. I will resist the temptation to compare that to a war to prevent war (or a greater war), and simply point out that there are "patriots" who have killed innocent Arabs (and shiks, who are not even of Arab extraction) in their rage over 9/11.

There are morons on all sides of the political spectrum. If you start trying to play a guilt by association game, you run the risk of being painted with the same brush.

[Vick]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 28 2003, 09:34 PM
There are peace demonstrators who resort to violence in the cause of peace. I will resist the temptation to compare that to a war to prevent war
I guess we can count you out of the Fucking for Virginity program then :P

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Vick+Mar 28 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Mar 28 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Mar 28 2003, 09:34 PM
There are peace demonstrators who resort to violence in the cause of peace. I will resist the temptation to compare that to a war to prevent war
I guess we can count you out of the Fucking for Virginity program then :P[/b][/quote]
I be down for dat ...

[voodooman]

Originally posted by Vick+Mar 28 2003, 08:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Mar 28 2003, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Mar 28 2003, 09:34 PM
There are peace demonstrators who resort to violence in the cause of peace. I will resist the temptation to compare that to a war to prevent war
I guess we can count you out of the Fucking for Virginity program then :P[/b][/quote]
Count me IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bjump: :bdance: :bjump: :bdance: :bjump: :bdance:

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Mar 28 2003, 08:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Mar 28 2003, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--CDSmith@Mar 28 2003, 05:58 PM
This is the first time I've seen anything from this CJ. What should that tell you?


Well, CD, I'm not sure how the above fits with You have no clue how long I've been reading this board. , but I'll take your word for it.

Frankly, you make sweeping generalizations about the peace movement and anyone who disagrees with you position on the subject, and then become vitriolic when someone questions your view.

Equating everyone who opposes this war with someone who would defend Saddam's regime is no more valid than those who point out the connections between Bush/Cheney/et al., the oil industry, and Iraq.

There are peace demonstrators who resort to violence in the cause of peace. I will resist the temptation to compare that to a war to prevent war (or a greater war), and simply point out that there are "patriots" who have killed innocent Arabs (and shiks, who are not even of Arab extraction) in their rage over 9/11.

There are morons on all sides of the political spectrum. If you start trying to play a guilt by association game, you run the risk of being painted with the same brush.[/b][/quote]
I'll go through your points one by one.


1) I meant that this is the first post from this CJ I've seen directed at me.


2) If my post was merely "questioned" that would have been fine. It wasn't "merely questoned" though... the reply had a scoffing mocking tone to it. A little "vitriol" I felt was called for. Tell me you.... the great stoic pornodoggy, haven't done the same on many threads of many boards. Don't make out like you're "above all that" dude.


3) If you haven't yet seen this, have a look:

http://brain-terminal.com/video/nyc-2003-0...wsmedia-hq.html (http://brain-terminal.com/video/nyc-2003-02-15/windowsmedia-hq.html)

Start painting.

[Vick]

CDSmith - that is a great video
http://brain-terminal.com/video/nyc-2003-0...wsmedia-hq.html (http://brain-terminal.com/video/nyc-2003-02-15/windowsmedia-hq.html)

Many of the peace protesters are well intentioned (the road to ruin is lined with good intentions) but they don't have any alternatives or solutions

Not really calling them sheep .... but if the wool fits

In my mind I'm uncertain if we should be in Iraq but what I know for certain is the decision has been made and we are there.
We have to complete our objectives