Some Mothers Son

[sarettah]

Some mother's son lies in a field
Someone has killed some mother's son today
Head blown up by some soldier's gun
While all the mothers stand and wait
Some mother's son ain't coming home today
Some mothers son ain't got no grave

Two soldiers fighting in a trench
One soldier glances up to see the sun
And dreams of games he played when he was young
And then his friend calls out his name
It stops his dream and as he turns his head
A second later he is dead

Some mother's son lies in a field
Back home they put his picture in a frame
But all dead soldiers look the same
While all the parents stand and wait
To meet their children coming home from school
Some mother's son is lying dead

Somewhere someone is crying
Someone is trying to be so brave
But still the world keeps turning
Though all the children have gone away

Some mother's son lies in a field
But in his mother's eyes he looks the same
As on the day he went away

They put his picture on the wall
They put flowers in the picture frame
Some mothers memory remains

(Davies 67 ?)
http://lyrics.net.ua/song/59753

[Vick]

sarettah - I have to ask why you posted this?

There is no doubt that war is hell, at it's most base the trading of lives for real estate ...
But that solider who made the supreme sacrifice for their country (and not just sons but daughters too) has my support, utmost respect, admiration, honor and gratitude

Beyond that as sad as it is, that solider who made the supreme sacrifice has worked to ensure the well being, prosperity and peace that may follow this conflict. That solider has made the supreme sacrifice so that countless others may live in peace

They gave their lives for what they believed in, they have the courage of their convictions - again for that I give my utmost respect, admiration, honor and gratitude - for their families my deepest sympathies and condolences

I wish the world was different, that we didn't have to fight for what we believe in or to liberate others or to stop unacceptable practices

I really believe that it's things like you posted here that help cause some of the misunderstanding that leads to the awful protests and conflicts we have here and around the world. A blind look at horror without considering the things I have touched on in this post

Yes War is awful .......... but the alternatives are even worse. To sit by and just watch ......

and that America flag you have as your icon can be seen as insulting especially at a time when the USA is at war, you have the symbol of our nation with cartoon characters on it

My flag wasn't made for someone to put cartoon characters on or to be made light of, especially when Americans are fighting and dying

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 23 2003, 01:55 PM


>sarettah - I have to ask why you posted this?
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I felt/feel that is a very appropriate post on a day of sadness such as this when our first casualties have been identified. When our POWs have been put on TV. A day when we should alll be aware that these brave souls fighting for us are our sons and daughters and that for each one killed There are many here in the states feeling pain and loss.

I posted it becauyse it has been running through my head since I first turned CNN back on this morning.
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>There is no doubt that war is hell, at it's most base the >trading of lives for real estate ...
>But that solider who made the supreme sacrifice for >their country (and not just sons but daughters too) >has my support, utmost respect, admiration, honor >and gratitude
**********************************************
As they do mine. I served 8 years in the Navy, my son is presently serving aboard ship in the Navy.

Where in the lyrics that I posted is there even a shred of disrespect. There is mourning, there is loss, but I find absolutely No disrespect in the words I posted.
**********************************************
>Beyond that as sad as it is, that solider who made the >supreme sacrifice has worked to ensure the well >being, prosperity and peace that may follow this >conflict. That solider has made the supreme sacrifice >so that countless others may live in peace
**********************************************

Yes, they have. Where in the song does it imply that a life was wasted?

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>They gave their lives for what they believed in, they >have the courage of their convictions - again for that I >give my utmost respect, admiration, honor and >gratitude - for their families my deepest sympathies >and condolences

>I wish the world was different, that we didn't have to >fight for what we believe in or to liberate others or to >stop unacceptable practices

>I really believe that it's things like you posted here >that help cause some of the misunderstanding that >leads to the awful protests and conflicts we have here >and around the world. A blind look at horror without >considering the things I have touched on in this post
**********************************************

But, when a mother loses a son, whether for good causes or for bad causes. Whether in the name of righteousness or in the name of evil. It is blind horror for the parent.

You seem uncomfortable at the idea of seeing that horror, of recognizing that horror. It is a hard reality to face when you look at it, even when it can be rationalized as being righteous and moral.

**********************************************

>Yes War is awful .......... but the alternatives are even >worse. To sit by and just watch ......
**********************************************

I agree and nothing I have posted across the past month or so has disagreed with this.
**********************************************

>and that America flag you have as your icon can be >seen as insulting especially at a time when the USA is >at war, you have the symbol of our nation with >cartoon characters on it

>My flag wasn't made for someone to put cartoon >characters on or to be made light of, especially when >Americans are fighting and dying

**********************************************

Your Flag eh... I am glad to see you think you have exclusive rights to it.

I served 8 years serving my country. I often carried the American flag in honor guards and at funerals. I served under the American flag proudly and my Son continues to serve under it at this very moment (and I am extremely proud of him btw). But, the flag is merely a piece of cloth in the long run. It represents an ideal, that ideal being the United States of America. That the version that I found which has pictures of 5 cartoon characters that I feel also represent America is neither meant as disrespectful or insulting. It is my viewpoint of America and only my viewpoint of America.

To treat anything as sacred causes us to lose track of why it is sacred. Blind loyalty to an icon is dangerous IMHO, when we place the emphasis on the symbol, rather than what the symbol represents, we end up doing things that are contrary to the ideal in order to protect the image.



Last edited by sarettah at Mar 23 2003, 02:35 PM

[sarettah]

and that America flag you have as your icon can be seen as insulting especially at a time when the USA is at war, you have the symbol of our nation with cartoon characters on it
************************************************** *****

Just to clarify after going back and staring at my blinking icon for a moment.

When I started using that, a week or two ago, it was meant to show the flag with all american kids on it... just like the kids fighting for us (and yes, they are men and women but as the bulk of them are 22 years of age and below and I have twin 21 year old kids, they are kids to me)...

Underneath then I placed an image of Satan with his arms around saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden.....

So the image of the evil beings blinks on first and then the image of the flag and the all american Southpark kids covers them, as if defeating them....

Does that make it any less insulting....

[Vick]

sarettah - thanks for your response

My point here is those lyrics only present one aspect of war, the grief and loss, not the honor nor the other things I posted about
and to only look at one aspect is dangerous and perhaps leads to the undermining of our efforts

I never alluded to even a shred of disrespect in those words, just maybe not the best representation in these times
Maybe we should honor as well as grieve

about the flag, I see what you are saying (and actually in a way it is sort of cool) but still it is a desecration no matter the intent

Where this is all coming from - I am seeing huge problems and challenges with some of the so called peace protests - and I think that part of the problem is caused by only looking at one aspect of our current conflict

I see so many kids (like sarettah, if you're in your 20's your a kid to me) who just see that war is bad and don't understand the entire reasoning behind our efforts
So they go blindly protesting something they aren't fully comprehending and instead of offering solutions to the conflict they are adding challenges and more conflict

Our country enables us to peacefully gather and demonstrate to express our opinions - what I've seen over the past 4 days is not peaceful nor positive nor doing anything to further the cause of peace

[sarettah]

Vick, I am not/ was not/ will not be protesting anything at least at this time and place. I have not marched anywhere against or for anything since 1972 (went to a Nixon rally..lol).

I respect the right of those that are against the war to march and proclaim so ever loudly they want that they are against the war as much as I respect those that are in support of our country "right or wrong". Eventhough, I personally would never even consider burning or shredding a flag, I respect the right of those who feel that it is an acceptable way to express their viewpoint.

I spent 8 years sworn to protect their rights to do so and was raised to believe that it was my duty and honor to do so. (my mother had me under the mistaken belief, for a long long time that it was in the constitution that every able bodied man was required to serve at least 2 years in the armed forces)

If there is any doubt, here is my backyard, circa 15 minutes ago, those flags have been there for the better part of 2 years. The first flag has been there since I moved in (June 2000), the second one went up right after 9/11.

http://www.pptb.net/images/backyard.jpg

As far as desecration goes, I maintain that desecration can only occur when something is held as sacred. Feeling that the flag is sacred becomes dangerous in my opinion.

Look at the things that are held sacred. The Hindu cow is sacred, why is it sacred? because it gave milk, food, it's skin provided clothing and shelter... So, they appreciated the cow so much that they made it sacred... and now, because it is sacred, they neither kill or eat cows, so instead we now see starving people with a bunch of cows wandering around the cities... They (the Hindus) lost track of WHY the cow was sacred....\

The Flag is nowhere near as important as the Country and Ideas that it represents. You can burn a flag, you can shred a flag, you can tapdance and piss on a flag.... But you can never burn down, tear down, shred or destoy the ideas, ideals and People that ythe American Flag represents.



Last edited by sarettah at Mar 23 2003, 03:29 PM

[Vick]

sarettah -Cool pix.
I certainly don't doubt your patriotism but again my issue is with the lyrics you posted only showing one tragic aspect of war and when only showing one aspect the problems that may arise
We need to grieve, we also need to honor

[sarettah]

The Battle Cry of Freedom
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Oh, we'll ral-ly 'round the flag, boys,
we'll ral-ly once a-gain, Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.
We will fal-ly from the hill-side, we'll gath-er from the plain,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.

The U - nion for-ev-er, hur-rah, boys, hur-rah!
Down with the trai-tor, up with the star.
While we ral-ly 'round the flag, boys, ral-ly once again,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.

We are spring-ing to the call of our broth-ers gone before,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.
And we'll fill the vac-ant ranks with a mil-lion free-men more,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.

The U - nion for-ev-er, hur-rah, boys, hur-rah!
Down with the trai-tor, up with the star.
While we ral-ly 'round the flag, boys, ral-ly once again,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.

We wil welcome to our num-bers the loyal, true and brave,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.
And al-though they may be poor not a man shall be a slave,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.

The U - nion for-ev-er, hur-rah, boys, hur-rah!
Down with the trai-tor, up with the star.
While we ral-ly 'round the flag, boys, ral-ly once again,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.

So we're spring-ing to the call from the East and from the West,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.
And we'll hurl the Rebel crew from the land we love the best,
Shout-ing the bat-tle cry of free - dom.

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is that better ?? :)

[Vick]

He he he
:D

[MikeW]

Since we're posting song lyrics .. one of my all time favorites from back in 1985:

"Fuck the Middle East" - by S.O.D (Stormtroopers Of Death)
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Fuck the Middle East
There's too many problems
They just get in the way
We could sure live without them
They hijack our planes
They raise our oil prices
We'll kill em all and have a ball
And end their fuckin crisis

BEIRUT, LEBANON, won't exist once we're done
LIBYA, IRAN, we'll flush those bastards down the can
SYRIANS and SHIITES, we'll crush their faces with our might
Then Israel and Egypt can live in peace without these dicks

:rokk: :rokk: :rokk: