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sarettah
03-16-2003, 10:09 PM
This is from http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/...2003031537.html (http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030315/2003031537.html) but it takes so frigging long to load, I decided to cut and paste the whole thing... My comments will be in another post
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UN resolution to eject the United States from the United Nations
Regional-USA, Analysis, 3/15/2003

In its effort to gain support for war against Iraq, the US has failed to make a convincing case and failed in its effort to gain the support of the UN Security Council. Having failed, the US is threatening to act alone and outside the framework of the United Nations. This is the ultimate threat the US is using to intimidate and coerce world countries to gain their support. The tactics the US is using are those of despots, and dictatorships that always go beyond the law and will use any means to achieve their interests -- bribe, lie, intimidate, and if all else fails, use force. That is the state of affairs the world is in today.

The US is the dominant power in political, economic, and military affairs and holds a choke hold on many of the international institutions. As such, this political, economic and military monopoly is causing great damage to world development -- as should be expected from a monopoly. But the extent of damage has become so great that this state of affair should no longer be tolerated.

The US is giving the world an ultimatum: Either follow us and do as we say, or else we will do what we want anyway. Many countries in the world may feel helpless against such intimidating power for fear of US reprisal against them politically, economically, or even militarily. They have been conditioned to this mentality, and have accepted the status quo for a long time, with the US managing to outflank any real efforts that limits its power. But the US is now challenging the world on a grand scale, defiant of its institutions -- institutions that it has helped develop and used herself over and over again to its advantage.

So the world is before a choice: to cower and give in to the USA and let things proceed as they have in the past -- with much greater potential of degeneration as the US becomes even much more dominant, or the world can very simply and calmly reply to the US ultimatum with one of its own: If you will not respect the UN decisions and will, then get out of the UN or we will kick you out. This message should be acted on Monday, even if only symbolically as a quick start, toward achieving this goal.

The UN has been handicapped for too long by the UN Security Council, which had been totally handicapped and dominated by the USA. The world needs to have true and effective democratic institutions -- with the true sense of the word -- to resolve conflicts and manage its affairs. Nothing less than the standards of domestic institutions will suffice at the international level as well.

The biggest obstacle to this development has been the United States of America. The United States, itself, is incapable of extricating itself from the position it is in. It is a monopoly that enjoys the position it is in, and would naturally not relinquish this position by itself, while at the same time, the US knows that monopolies are not good. Clearly, there needs to be an outside force to change this situation. So let us give the United States a helping hand in forcing it to do what is right. It will not be easy and it will require courage, but it is the right thing to do, and it will produce the kind of results many want.

It is time to kick the USA out of the UN Security Council for starters, or out of the United Nations if need be. The world can do without such bullies and war mongers and international dictators. No more ultimatums to the UN. If you don't like the United Nations, then get out of it; Tomorrow is a good day to announce this. And if the USA does not announce this itself, then the countries of the world should seize the moment and understand what is going on and act. Make no mistake about it, this issue, at its core, has little to do with Iraq. This is a grandiose game that its details are not the subject of this article. In short, this is about the kind of future the world wants for itself. Here is a chance to show that you don't support dictators and their methods. Kick the USA out of the UN. Enough autocracy, let the world know true international democracy, and let the world see how fast peace and economic progress will flow everywhere; They will wonder why they waited this long; Of course, they felt they could not, because the USA was in the way, and it still is.

Time for the USA to get out of the UN. If not, it should be kicked out. This should be Monday's proposed resolutions at the UN security Council and at the UN General Assembly. Time for the United Nations to grow up and become independent of the USA, and it is time for democratic international institutions. Let a new era of world development begins.

Editor's note: we have compiled a small list of relevant stories related to this subject in the links bellow. If you are serious about getting informed about this subject, then consider reading these links for views that you may find be informative.

sarettah
03-16-2003, 10:28 PM
Ok, so we (the U.S.) have been such big bad guys we should be expelled from the U.N. eh ??

Hmmm... Let's see, we tried to gather support for our pending military action against Iraq in the U.N.... We didn't get it... Now, from the gitgo, Bush said he would go it alone if needed, so everyone and their brother had fair warning on this.... But because we might go it alone (or with just a few allies, thank you Britain, Australia, Spain, whoever else) we should be thrown out of the U.N. ???

Now, it seems to me that in the 58 years or so since the end of WWII and the establishment of the U.N., quite a few other countries have "gone it alone"... The Soviets went into czechoslavakia and Poland (among others), China went into Tibet, All the Mideastern Arab countries attacked Israel, and the start of the whole mess we are in now was Iraq invading Kuwait.... From my remembrances (which may be foggy) NONE of these actions had U.N. approval prior to happening.... Edit: damn, I almost forgot, our good friends (sarcasm intended) in France went into Vietnam and Algeria....

And yet, Nobody yelled.... Kick em out of the U.N......

In fact, if my facts are right, the U.S. has been the ONLY country to go in front of the U.N. and ask for PERMISSION to but it's head into another country... In Korea, Bosnia and the Persian Gulf War, the U.S. went and got permission before hand.....

But, oh my god, now we are threatening to "go it alone" in order to protect what the current administration considers to be "in our national interest" and we should be kicked out....

Go for it motherfuckers, kick us out.... see what the fuck we care......

You guys can pay for controlling the Northern and Southern no fly zones over Iraq into perpetuity... You guys can pay the price of keeping Saddam Hussein contained while he kills his own people.... You guys can pay the price of your freedom....

Many of us here in the U.S. would be extremely happy with a nice isolationist view of the world... Let Europe handle Europe's problems.... Let Asia handle Asian problems..... We would be quite content to sit here and sell our friends our products and say SCREW OFF to the rest of you....

As far as the Middle East goes... I would be more than happy at this moment to cut Israel loose and let them kick some ass... We have held them in check too long..... There is not an Arab country that's going to have a chance against them..... And when they are done, Europe, you had better watch out because the people in Israel still remember how much you protected their ass during WWII....

So like I said, go ahead and throw us out... Your fucking building is taking up prime real estate in Manhattan anyway.....

edit: I hope my liberal bias did not show through too much.....



Last edited by sarettah at Mar 16 2003, 10:55 PM

Mike AI
03-16-2003, 10:36 PM
I read some articles from College Professors, and a few Law School Professors in the US are pushing for the UN General Assembly to put sanctions on the United States, and if need be, raise an Army to defeat our militarism.

Sounds to me like these guys need to be rounded up for sedition....

Of course we know they are all loons.... with way to much time on their hands.

sarettah
03-16-2003, 10:55 PM
Mike...shhhhh... you aren't supposed to be agreeing with me....

damn, I'm not gonna have any liberal credibility left at all......

:rolleyes:

Vick
03-16-2003, 10:55 PM
It's a great idea
Please ask the USA to leave the UN - I wholeheartedly agree

Beyond that if you want a "true international democracy" please realize that means 51% of the people in that international democracy could vote the other 49% into slavery
The USA is a republic by virtue of our constitutional representative government

But really that's just mincing words but it illustrates where the writer's lack of knowledge sits ... or does it?

Spent time reading today various websites and watching TV and saw a lot of peace marches
Ironic when you're demonstrating for peace (or anti-war) and the marchers are burning American Flags and violently shouting (anti-American) slogans
Is that kind of like fucking for virginity?

No wants to see a war, the American rallies today aren't to support a war, there are to show support for our troops abroad

Maybe instead of protesting we could come up with a better solution of the crisis at hand.
Is there even a solution available?
We can go on about how Iraq has weapons they were prohibited from building and harbor terrorists - so what do we do now. Dance around a few more months or years?

Truthfully I don't have the answers and I really wish I did. It's absolutely crazy shit and our world has already changed
There is going to be death, it comes down to who is going to be the causalities


p.s. I believe the USA built and paid for building the UN is in
Would the last UN rep out please turn off the lights?

Mike AI
03-16-2003, 11:52 PM
Sarattah, to me the issues I have with liberals, and Democrats END at the waters end. I think honest liberals, and honest Democrats - those who put the Nation first should be respected, and are fellow Citizens.....

http://www.skeptician.com/skeptician/skeptician.nsf/rsrc/D9D357677F9CA4F486256CE600013231/$file/un.gif

Almighty Colin
03-17-2003, 06:17 AM
Sarettah,

Wow!

Torone
03-17-2003, 07:28 AM
Some things to think about...
The U.N ran the Korean war, Viet Nam, Bosnia, The Gulf War (and I probably missed one or two); and look how those turned out.

If I took the time, I could make a damned good case that the U.N. is a has-been with dreams of world domination. Bush is trying to give them a chance to mean something. Hussein has been defying them since the Gulf War. So far, he has ignored 17 resolutions, and will continue to do so unless he gets slapped down. Still, the U.N. continues to waffle about enforcing even this latest resolution. Meanwhile, Saddam has purchased nuclear technology and weapons-grade uranium from France, chemical and biological technology from Germany, Scuds from N. Korea, and who knows what from China and Russia (with the money he has made from the oil he's not supposed to sell).

Personally, I think that now is the time to politely with withdraw from the U.N. and give them notice that their lease is no longer renewable...

Almighty Colin
03-17-2003, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Torone@Mar 17 2003, 07:36 AM
The Gulf War ; and look how those turned out.


A great success. How can one measure success against any other criteria than one's goals? The original goal was to protect Saudi Arabia. Only later did the strategy of liberating Kuwait materialize.
The original goals were well exceeded.

Torone
03-17-2003, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by Colin+Mar 17 2003, 07:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Mar 17 2003, 07:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Torone@Mar 17 2003, 07:36 AM
The Gulf War ; and look how those turned out.


A great success. How can one measure success against any other criteria than one's goals? The original goal was to protect Saudi Arabia. Only later did the strategy of liberating Kuwait materialize.
The original goals were well exceeded.[/b][/quote]
But, because the U.N. set the rules, a fanatical, genocidal dictator was left in place.

Almighty Colin
03-17-2003, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by Torone+Mar 17 2003, 08:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Torone @ Mar 17 2003, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Colin@Mar 17 2003, 07:50 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Torone@Mar 17 2003, 07:36 AM
The Gulf War ; and look how those turned out.


A great success. How can one measure success against any other criteria than one's goals? The original goal was to protect Saudi Arabia. Only later did the strategy of liberating Kuwait materialize.
The original goals were well exceeded.
But, because the U.N. set the rules, a fanatical, genocidal dictator was left in place.[/b][/quote]
I think it was the best decision at the time. Bush Sr. had been the US ambassador to the UN and that certainly was his mindset - and rightly so at the time. Having the support of the other Arab countries was much more difficult to get 10 years ago than today. Those whose support we did have were most likely opposed to a move on Baghdad - especially Saudi Arabia. The situation was very tentative with Saudi Arabia at the time and the relationship was and is very important.

Today, most of the Arab countries are supportive. We are in Jordan, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain [Maybe I forgot one].

Times are different in that regard.