Mysterious Killer Pneumonia

[Forest]

http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81179,00.html

"Until we can get a grip on it, I don't see how it will slow down," WHO spokesman Dick Thompson said in Geneva. "People are not responding to antibiotics or antivirals, it's a highly contagious disease and it's moving around by jet. It's bad."

anyone read The Stand?

I was reading it while working in NYC and as I would ride in the subway reading the booking sitting next to someone sniffleing or coughing I'd just about hold my breath

lol

[Forest]

SARS has now been confirmed in 51 cases here in the USA

less than 2 weeks after i started this thread.

:(

[Winetalk.com]

Forest,
alcohol kills germs/viruses....

4-8 bottles of Merlot a day would keep you darn healthy
;-))

The Stand is a kick ass book and movie is good too

[Forest]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Mar 28 2003, 04:47 AM
Forest,
alcohol kills germs/viruses....

4-8 bottles of Merlot a day would keep you darn healthy
;-))

The Stand is a kick ass book and movie is good too
i will start drinking NOW!!!!
:P :hic:

The movie was awesome i thought because they took it almost verbatum from the book.

I read the first 1 twice. Then the 2nd edition which like 300+ pages added

that book scared the shit out of me, because it really could or IS happening

Imagine NYC with like 10k people in it and everyone one else dead

:unsure:

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Forest@Mar 28 2003, 07:55 AM


Imagine NYC with like 10k people in it and everyone one else dead

:unsure:
do you mind if I imagine
BAGHDAD with like 10k people in it and everyone one else dead
???

much better visual
;-)))

[Forest]

That looks to be more real at the moment

and yes dead iraqi soldiers is a MUCH better visual than americans

:awinky:

[Almighty Colin]

The Stand. One of my favorite books.

[Almighty Colin]

Everytime these stories break,I think of 1918.

Should be noted that there have been no US deaths out of 51 cases.

Also, there is no known virus associated with it yet as it is currently labeled a syndrome so many reported cases might not even be virally related - if it is a virus.



Last edited by Colin at Mar 28 2003, 08:17 AM

[Forest]

Originally posted by Colin@Mar 28 2003, 05:13 AM
Everytime these stories break,I think of 1918.

Should be noted that there have been no US deaths out of 51 cases.

Also, there is no known virus associated with it yet as it is currently labeled a syndrome so many reported cases might not even be virally related - if it is a virus.
colin on the same note there may be many cases un-diagnosd due to lack of info on this virus or the way it comes on like the flu.

Captain Trips came on like the flu

eireeeee

[Almighty Colin]

Forest,

I'm betting on the opposite though as the death rate in US is 0% so far but was reportedly around 5% in Asia. People that die from pneumonia-like symptoms in US will definitely be suspect.

[Forest]

Originally posted by Colin@Mar 28 2003, 05:35 AM
Forest,

I'm betting on the opposite though as the death rate in US is 0% so far but was reportedly around 5% in Asia. People that die from pneumonia-like symptoms in US will definitely be suspect.
I actually meant that people could be walking around with it and not know it because of the similar symptoms to the flu

[originalheather]

How many people died in 1918, Colin? I can't remember. That was influenza, right?

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by originalheather@Mar 29 2003, 10:49 AM
How many people died in 1918, Colin? I can't remember. That was influenza, right?
More than 20 million world-wide. Nice way to end World War I.

For the US audience:
Americans killed by 1918 flu: 675,000
Americans KIA in WW I: 53,000

[Rox]

According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/transcripts/t030327.htm) on 3/27:

Much laboratory work continues here at CDC and in a WHO-supported network of laboratories working worldwide, to continue to try to sort out the cause of this illness. The evidence in favor of this illness being caused by a previously unrecognized virus in the group of viruses known as corona viruses continues to mount. I'm not prepared that we're ready to say it's definitive evidence yet. Much work remains to be done. But the preponderance of the evidence as it evolves here and in other laboratories around the world is consistent with a previously unrecognized corona virus playing an important role.

Rad's Coronavirus page (http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/corona/virushome.html)

Considering the rate of prescription for antibiotic and immunosuppressant drugs (Prednisone, anyone? Cures whatever ails ya! Just ask your doctor!), along with the overuse of anti-bacterial soaps, it's no wonder viruses are mutating into new resistant strains.

What I'd like to know is what's up in Asia that these killer bugs almost always originate there? I heard someone on the news call this Hong Kong Flu -- which I remember from like 30 years ago or so!

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Rox@Mar 29 2003, 02:08 PM
What I'd like to know is what's up in Asia that these killer bugs almost always originate there? I heard someone on the news call this Hong Kong Flu -- which I remember from like 30 years ago or so!
It's just cheaper to make EVERYTHING in China! :nyanya:

[kath]

Originally posted by Rox@Mar 29 2003, 10:08 AM
According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/transcripts/t030327.htm) on 3/27:

Much laboratory work continues here at CDC and in a WHO-supported network of laboratories working worldwide, to continue to try to sort out the cause of this illness. The evidence in favor of this illness being caused by a previously unrecognized virus in the group of viruses known as corona viruses continues to mount. I'm not prepared that we're ready to say it's definitive evidence yet. Much work remains to be done. But the preponderance of the evidence as it evolves here and in other laboratories around the world is consistent with a previously unrecognized corona virus playing an important role.

Rad's Coronavirus page (http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/corona/virushome.html)

Considering the rate of prescription for antibiotic and immunosuppressant drugs (Prednisone, anyone? Cures whatever ails ya! Just ask your doctor!), along with the overuse of anti-bacterial soaps, it's no wonder viruses are mutating into new resistant strains.

What I'd like to know is what's up in Asia that these killer bugs almost always originate there? I heard someone on the news call this Hong Kong Flu -- which I remember from like 30 years ago or so!
Rox -

Weird - I hadn't heard of coronavirus before yesterday and now I've heard it 3 times. Here, on the news and from our vet. The new puppy got sick and they tested him for parvovirus (negative! :rokk: ) and coronavirus (negative! :rokk: ). Was reading up on all this stuff last night on peteducation.com. I had no idea so many viral things like this can go from dog (or other animals) to humans.

The good news is that the pup is keeping down solids and pedialite now - I think with round the clock care this weekend, he'll pull through. Doc thinks it's a bacterial-based thing. No wonder - like you said, we over use anti-bacterial soaps, hand lotions, etc. - I just noticed that a face scrub I bought claims to be anti-bacterial too. Talk about too much of a good thing!

Everything is educational - the things I've learned about pups in the past couple of days are just amazing.

[Vick]

If I start dreaming about Mother Abigail I'll let you know or maybe I'll dream about the man in black


For Stephen King Fans
Wolves of the Calla
(Volume V of The Dark Tower series)
Scheduled for a November 2003 release

Song of Susannah
(Volume VI of The Dark Tower series)
Scheduled for a June 2004 release

The Dark Tower
(Volume VII of The Dark Tower Series)
Scheduled for a November 2004 release

I can only hope

[PornoDoggy]

I'm pretty sure that Torone told me this was caused by Germany, Hillary Clinton, France, Bill Clinton, Syria, George Clinton, China, Al Gore, Russia, Al Bundy, Saddam Hussein, Ted Bundy, and the whole damn Marshall Tucker Band.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Mar 29 2003, 01:51 PM

[Vick]

Hey leave Al Bundy out of this
He's an American Icon!!!!!!

Could you blame Al if he did start spreading germs , he had to sleep with Peg and Marcy Darcy was his damn neighbor

PD - I am ashamed, I thought you might be a card carrying member of NO'MAAM
:P

[Rox]

Originally posted by kath@Mar 29 2003, 10:41 AM
Rox -

Weird - I hadn't heard of coronavirus before yesterday and now I've heard it 3 times. Here, on the news and from our vet. The new puppy got sick and they tested him for parvovirus (negative! :rokk: ) and coronavirus (negative! :rokk: ). Was reading up on all this stuff last night on peteducation.com. I had no idea so many viral things like this can go from dog (or other animals) to humans.

The good news is that the pup is keeping down solids and pedialite now - I think with round the clock care this weekend, he'll pull through. Doc thinks it's a bacterial-based thing. No wonder - like you said, we over use anti-bacterial soaps, hand lotions, etc. - I just noticed that a face scrub I bought claims to be anti-bacterial too. Talk about too much of a good thing!

Everything is educational - the things I've learned about pups in the past couple of days are just amazing.
Kath, the little guy could also just be a little stressed out from all the changes. Also, if he got shots, he could be having a bit of a reaction. I hope he feels better soon, poor li'l guy.

It's nearly impossible to shop in your local grocery store for hygiene products that don't contain chemicals that are suspect, and there are people all over the place warning against overuse of antibacterial products and antibiotics.

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/23/anti_bacterials.htm

http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/

[Forest]

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 29 2003, 10:43 AM
If I start dreaming about Mother Abigail I'll let you know or maybe I'll dream about the man in black


For Stephen King Fans
Wolves of the Calla
(Volume V of The Dark Tower series)
Scheduled for a November 2003 release

Song of Susannah
(Volume VI of The Dark Tower series)
Scheduled for a June 2004 release

The Dark Tower
(Volume VII of The Dark Tower Series)
Scheduled for a November 2004 release

I can only hope
:cdance: :gbounce: :bjump: :bwave: :bdance: :okthumb:

[Peaches]

I rarely use anti-bacterial soaps (I keep some in the kitchen for when I touch meat) because I have a septic tank and it kills the "good" bacteria in it.

My Mom's a nurse and has always extolled the virtues of "your body can heal itself" and told us years ago about the dangers of the overuse of antibiotics and anti-bacterial items. She also suggests that unless it's a young child, someone with an immune problem, or an older person (and of course, common sense tells you there are other exceptions), you shouldn't take anything to bring a fever down of under 101 or to stop simple instances of nausea or diarrhea as it's usually just your body's way of getting fixed. So far, so good as we're all still alive :awinky:

It's interesting to read about these new strains that are immune to anything we currently have to protect ourselves. Simple evolution, I suppose.

[Rox]

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 29 2003, 11:18 AM
I rarely use anti-bacterial soaps (I keep some in the kitchen for when I touch meat) because I have a septic tank and it kills the "good" bacteria in it.

My Mom's a nurse and has always extolled the virtues of "your body can heal itself" and told us years ago about the dangers of the overuse of antibiotics and anti-bacterial items. She also suggests that unless it's a young child, someone with an immune problem, or an older person (and of course, common sense tells you there are other exceptions), you shouldn't take anything to bring a fever down of under 101 or to stop simple instances of nausea or diarrhea as it's usually just your body's way of getting fixed. So far, so good as we're all still alive :awinky:

It's interesting to read about these new strains that are immune to anything we currently have to protect ourselves. Simple evolution, I suppose.
Peaches, your mom has it right. It's really difficult for me to hold my tongue sometimes with some of the parents of my daughter's friends. These people take their kids to the doctor for every little sniffle or case of the runs. Hell, my kid has an actual auto-immune related disorder, and I avoid giving her any kind of over-the-counter or pharmaceutical medicine or taking her to the doctor unless she's been sick for more than two days, or is clearly ill enough to warrant something stronger than chicken soup.

The gal who watches her for me after school has 5 kids, and I swear, those kids are sick ALL the time and are constantly on antibiotics for one thing or another. How the hell are they supposed to develop a functioning immune system if it's never allowed to do its job?

And I couldn't believe that another of Cat's friends, who's TWELVE, is currently on Paxil! WTF?

Does anyone remember the crazy pharmacist sketch on that show in the 80s, "Fridays?" It appears the American way is the same... something bothering you? "TAKE A PILL!"

[Peaches]

I have to admit, she's actually my stepmother (and not even that, legally, but that's another story :awinky: ) but she and my Dad have been together for 16+ years, so I consider her my "Mom".

My actual birth mother, OTOH, took full advantage of my Dad having some of the best health insurance out there. If we so much as sneezed, had a sniffle, our temp went to 99, etc. off we went to the doctor. As a teen, I went to a dermatologist 2 times a week for SUNLAMP (!!) treatments :zoinks: and took tetracycline (sp) like it was candy. And I didn't have any thing more than normal teenage pimples. Heck, I had my ears pierced by the family doctor at his office, lol! I finally had to call my old doctor she kept dragging my son to whenever he visited her and explain to him that he ALWAYS ran a fever every time he got a new tooth. He needed Tylenol, not Amoxicillan (again - sp). :blink:

Thankfully I was so broke when my son was young, that I couldn't afford to take him to the doctor unless he was REALLY, REALLY sick - in hindsight, it worked out for the best :okthumb:

[originalheather]

We had an intelligent pediatrician growing up, and my mom wasn't any dummy either, so if we had a cold, we got chicken soup. The doctor didn't want to see us unless the fever was over 101 and we had other symptoms.

I've tried telling my friends that run to the doc for an antibiotic shot every time they have a cold that a) it won't work and B) they're fucking up their immune systems.

I still find it hard to believe that doctors will give these people antiobiotics for viruses, it's cowardly of them, or just lazy. They should, instead, explain to people the difference between a viral and bacteriological infection and that the best treatment for a cold is homemade chicken soup and some nasal spray. I also use Eucalyptus bath crystals in a warm tub.

I think that this new pneumonia we're seeing is the direct result of antibiotic abuse worldwide. This is just the tip of the iceberg, I'm afraid. There are tons of viruses mutating out there now and someone had better come up with some new antibiotics or lots of people are gonna die. :cryin:



Last edited by originalheather at Mar 29 2003, 01:14 PM

[LadyLaw]

http://www.interestalert.com/brand/siteia....ss&Fid=BUSINESS (http://www.interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/03290000aaa01177.upi&Sys=1stcounsel&Type=News&Filter=Business&Fid=BUSINESS)


"Carlo Urbani, the Italian doctor who first identified a new deadly respiratory illness has himself died of the disease, the World Health Organization said Saturday.

Urbani, who detected the outbreak of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, or SARS, was 46."
*********************************************

This SARS scares me to death. May the good Dr. rest in peace.

[Mutt]

10 years ago I saw a TV program with leading scientists and doctors in the fields of immunology, virology, infectious diseases etc predicting this was just around the corner. They were already seeing viruses and infections that antibiotics and anti viral drugs couldn't control in small numbers.

Everybody's to blame, patients and doctors. Doctors just gave in to whiney patients who demanded they be given some pills for whatever they had, half the time they have nothing more than the sniffles.

World is doomed one way or another.

[slavdogg]

got SARS ?
put some tussin on it
or better yet spay some windex


:D

[*KK*]

Interestingly enough one of my close friends got sick a few weeks ago and they could not figure out what was wrong with her. Same sort of symptoms, near death experience, and no one could figure out what she had, only what she didn't have. She had been traveling in the Pacific Rim just before she came home and got sick, so who knows what it was. She's on the slow road to recovery now, they had to cut an enormous incision under her arm to drain the fluid out of her chest and that's as debilitating as having been sick.

Interestingly enough though, none of her doctors or visitors got sick...

[cj]

unfortunately for doctors, many of us go to them begging them to 'fix' us so we can get back to treating ourselves like shit and getting sick all over again ...

like has been said here lots, chicken soup & bedrest is the best cure for most illnesses ...but when flu drug companies release products with ad campaigns like 'soldier on with codral soldier on' (only the aussies will get that probably) ... an entire campaign dedicated to a drug that allows you to 'keep going' even when your body is crying out for you to slow down for just a minute and let your body fight the 48 hours of symptoms naturally.

I started taking an acidophilus capsule when my digestive system packed it in, because of a whole bunch of other 'illnesses' i started getting because my system wasn't fighting them. its got 20 billion organisms of bacteria in it - its goal is to increase the systems defenses by replacing the bacteria we try to kill in our bodies that is there for a reason.

yoghurt and yakult products are good also, but the capsule is the only way to get 20 billion good soldiers in ya gut at once.

you can get it from most health food stores and probably pharmacies, i take a dairy free version ... for those of you who suffer dairy blues!!

[kath]

Originally posted by Rox@Mar 29 2003, 11:05 AM
Kath, the little guy could also just be a little stressed out from all the changes. Also, if he got shots, he could be having a bit of a reaction. I hope he feels better soon, poor li'l guy.

It's nearly impossible to shop in your local grocery store for hygiene products that don't contain chemicals that are suspect, and there are people all over the place warning against overuse of antibacterial products and antibiotics.

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/23/anti_bacterials.htm

http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/
I'm hoping that's all it is...he's doing much better today - eating well and everything. Had to call the vet to make sure he wasn't eating TOO much! lol I agree - I think stress/shots is a major factor. I just heard parvo and freaked!

Thanks for the links Rox - forwarded the first to my mom (the anti-bacterial soap queen!) and am still wading through the second one myself. LOTS of great information there.

:okthumb:

[kath]

Originally posted by Forest+Mar 29 2003, 11:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Forest @ Mar 29 2003, 11:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@Mar 29 2003, 10:43 AM
If I start dreaming about Mother Abigail I'll let you know or maybe I'll dream about the man in black


For Stephen King Fans
Wolves of the Calla
(Volume V of The Dark Tower series)
Scheduled for a November 2003 release

Song of Susannah
(Volume VI of The Dark Tower series)
Scheduled for a June 2004 release

The Dark Tower
(Volume VII of The Dark Tower Series)
Scheduled for a November 2004 release

I can only hope
:cdance: :gbounce: :bjump: :bwave: :bdance: :okthumb:[/b][/quote]
This warranted another happy dance! Woooohoooooo! Been waiting for these books for a LONNNNNGGGGG time. I must confess I was really really bad - when I heard SK got in that car accident I thought "OMG, now we'll never ever read the end of the Dark Tower series!"

That disgusts me....I mean, I know I don't know him as a person, but I had no idea I was that obsessed that would cast aside all compassion and just think about my reading addictions! Ack! :unsure:

[ulfie]

begin rant

We have a pretty big crisis where I live regarding malpractice insurance. Doctors are leaving the state or moving to lower risk positions because of it. My mother's neuroseurgeon, who is one of the best in the world, told me he pays almost $500,000/year in malpractice insurance and he's never had a claim filed against him in 30 years. The reason I bring this up is because I was asking him about what he thought about all the advertising drug companies were doing. He told me that he felt that was the primary reason so many drugs were being prescribed needlessly. He said a patient sees some drug on tv or in a magazine ad and is convinced that is what they need. The doctor, even if they don't think that is what they need, will prescribe it anyway because they are so afraid of malpractice claims. It was really eye opening talking to him. We have entire counties here now that don't have pediatricians, heart surgeons, etc. because they can't afford malpractice insurance. To his credit, our new governor says he's going to propose some new legislation but since he's a lawyer I doubt he's going to hurt his own. I really can't wait to get out of this state sometimes. Did I mention it's SNOWING here today as well. :grrr:

end rant

[Peaches]

Originally posted by ulfie@Mar 30 2003, 07:03 PM
begin rant

We have a pretty big crisis where I live regarding malpractice insurance. Doctors are leaving the state or moving to lower risk positions because of it. My mother's neuroseurgeon, who is one of the best in the world, told me he pays almost $500,000/year in malpractice insurance and he's never had a claim filed against him in 30 years. The reason I bring this up is because I was asking him about what he thought about all the advertising drug companies were doing. He told me that he felt that was the primary reason so many drugs were being prescribed needlessly. He said a patient sees some drug on tv or in a magazine ad and is convinced that is what they need. The doctor, even if they don't think that is what they need, will prescribe it anyway because they are so afraid of malpractice claims. It was really eye opening talking to him. We have entire counties here now that don't have pediatricians, heart surgeons, etc. because they can't afford malpractice insurance. To his credit, our new governor says he's going to propose some new legislation but since he's a lawyer I doubt he's going to hurt his own. I really can't wait to get out of this state sometimes. Did I mention it's SNOWING here today as well. :grrr:

end rant
HOWEVER COMMA :awinky: The more articles I read about the malpractice insurance going up, the more it looks like the insurance companies are doing it more to recoup their losses post 9/11 than actual damages being awarded in malpractice cases :angry: Your Mom's neurosurgeon is a perfect example, since he's never had a claim filed against him but his rates keep going up. I'm not saying that they aren't over prescribing in order to protect themselves, just wondering out loud if it's going to really do any actual good. :(

BTW, the rural areas here are in such crisis that many of the doctors and hospitals are dropping their malpractice insurance completely and making patients sign papers agreeing not to sue them. It's the only way they can keep the doors open.

And it's snowing here, too! Just a few flakes, but I'm happy! :bjump: )

[kath]

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 30 2003, 03:28 PM
And it's snowing here, too! Just a few flakes, but I'm happy! :bjump: )
Snowing? At Peaches' log cabin? That sounds AWESOME!

:yowsa:

That's it - I'm moving in. Tell Meg that Dodger & I are on our way. lol Sounds awesome! We had to close the house up today because it got over 90 and the puppy was panting. :(

I want SNOW!!!!!!! :rokk:

[originalheather]

BTW, the rural areas here are in such crisis that many of the doctors and hospitals are dropping their malpractice insurance completely and making patients sign papers agreeing not to sue them.

Actually, not a bad idea. The US is so freaking litigous that it's taking health care out of the reach of most people who can't get group health plans. Even with them, you're "managed" to the point where it seems life-threatening at times. Look at what Pattyecake is going through with her back!

Here in Mexico, they'd have better taken out the wrong kidney before you think about suing. I actually think it's better for everyone that way. I have a real problem with someone who gets a few million dollars because their doctor failed to diagnose that hangnail or they put hot coffee between their legs in a car.

[kath]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/30/healt...reut/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/30/health.pneumonia.infection.reut/index.html)

Well...at least they didn't say "use anti-bacterial soap" - but I bet 80% of the folks reading this have all anti-bacterial products anyway. *sigh*

It was nice that they offered other preventative options as well...

:unsure:

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by slavdogg@Mar 29 2003, 07:18 PM
spray some windex


:D
:rokk:

[Forest]

Originally posted by kath@Mar 31 2003, 12:30 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/30/healt...reut/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/30/health.pneumonia.infection.reut/index.html)

Well...at least they didn't say "use anti-bacterial soap" - but I bet 80% of the folks reading this have all anti-bacterial products anyway. *sigh*

It was nice that they offered other preventative options as well...

:unsure:
kath

years ago when they first strated talking about resistant strains due to all the overuse of anitbactierial stuff and antibiotics I stopped useing all of them

No soap cleaners ect ect

and i havent taken an antibotic in 15 years at least

echinacia (sp)

the natural way to boost your immune system
30days on 30days off

havent had a serious cold or flu in 4 years (knock wood)

[originalheather]

Latest news on CNN has SARS in 15 countries, including 62 reported cases in the US.

It's not the reason why I cancelled my trip to Phoenix, but I'm kinda glad I'm not getting on an airplane this week.

I used to think that I got sick at the conventions (and it's been EVERY convention since 2K), but since plane travel and that recycled, unfiltered air spreads germs better than french-kissing Serge :P, I think I've actually been getting sick on the planes. There are a lot of viruses with 3-4 day incubation periods and I seem to get sick on the last day of the conventions every time.

I lead such a sheltered life aside from conventions that when I get on a plane, I'm open season for whatever's running around out there.



Last edited by originalheather at Mar 31 2003, 06:37 AM

[LadyLaw]

Originally posted by originalheather@Mar 30 2003, 11:11 PM
Here in Mexico, they'd have better taken out the wrong kidney before you think about suing. I actually think it's better for everyone that way. I have a real problem with someone who gets a few million dollars because their doctor failed to diagnose that hangnail or they put hot coffee between their legs in a car.
Just to set the record straight on the McDonald's coffee case, which pops up everywhere as proof of the frivolous nature of the American legal system:

At trial, the jury discovered that McDonald's knew they were serving their coffee hot enough to cause THIRD degree burns, were serving the scalding hot coffee in shitty little McDonald's cups, and that over 700 people had already reported serious burns in the ten years prior, and they still REFUSED to take action, because:

1. They could use substandard cheap coffee, and less of it, because it was served too hot for anyone to tell what kind of coffee they were serving, saving them lots of money per year;
2. The super-heated coffee took so long to cool that by the time it cooled enough to drink the average consumer who was eating at a McDonald's facility had already eaten his/her fast meal and was unlikely to stick around (taking up valuable seat space) to ask for a refill, saving McDonald's money as well.

Stella Liebeck, the 79 year old woman involved, didn't just suffer little burns, she was hospitalized for a week, dropped from 113 pounds to 83 pounds, and later had to have skin grafts due to extensive third degree burns. She was not driving at the time: the car she was a passenger in was stopped.

She offered to settle for medical costs alone, plus $2000 for her daughter's time to take care of her for three weeks after she got out of the hospital, but McDonald's only offered $800.

And.....the $2.7 million award was reduced a month later to $640K....which the Judge said was "appropriate to punish and deter" McDonald''s corporate coffee policy. A McDonald''s Quality Control manager testified that McDonald''s knew of the risk of dangerously hot coffee and had no plans to either turn down the heat or warn their customers, even though most customers wouldn't be aware of the scalding danger.

I totally agree there are frivolous lawsuits out there, but the McDonald's case is not one of them, in my humble opinion.

[Almighty Colin]

LL, very interesting. Thanks! :awinky:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by LadyLaw@Mar 31 2003, 11:23 AM
I totally agree there are frivolous lawsuits out there, but the McDonald's case is not one of them, in my humble opinion.
LL, I've read up on this one also and agree completely.

Here's an interesting link:

http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm

[kath]

Originally posted by LadyLaw@Mar 31 2003, 07:23 AM
At trial, the jury discovered that McDonald's knew they were serving their coffee hot enough to cause THIRD degree burns, were serving the scalding hot coffee in shitty little McDonald's cups, and that over 700 people had already reported serious burns in the ten years prior, and they still REFUSED to take action, because:

1. They could use substandard cheap coffee, and less of it, because it was served too hot for anyone to tell what kind of coffee they were serving, saving them lots of money per year;
2. The super-heated coffee took so long to cool that by the time it cooled enough to drink the average consumer who was eating at a McDonald's facility had already eaten his/her fast meal and was unlikely to stick around (taking up valuable seat space) to ask for a refill, saving McDonald's money as well.

It helps to get the insider info on stuff like this from someone who knows their shit - LL you're an asset to anyone who comes in contact with you. I had never heard all the details on this case - just the jokes on Leno and as you said, the references to this case as a perfect example of the frivilous lawsuit.

Now...the fast food suit from that guy who claims they "made him fat" - that is utter BS, right? I mean - there's no merit in that case that we haven't heard about through our filtered media - is there? :blink:

Thanks for the info...this is better than Urban Legends debunking sites! :rokk: