Freedom Of Speech

[RawAlex]

I don't agree with the setiments of the shirt (not exactly) but I find it funny that in the land of free speech, an opposing viewpoint is not acceptable in a place of learning.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/19/a...t.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/19/antibush.tshirt.ap/index.html)

Alex

[Peaches]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 08:06 PM
I don't agree with the setiments of the shirt (not exactly) but I find it funny that in the land of free speech, an opposing viewpoint is not acceptable in a place of learning.
Alex, school systems have a lot of rules for clothing :) In my son's, you also couldn't wear clothing that had illegal substances shown on them or advertised cigarettes or alcohol. And let's not start in on the dress codes at private schools B) It has nothing to do with free speech, IMHO.

Not to mention, as I told my kid - at 16, he HAD no rights except the right to do exactly what I or any other adults in charge told him to do :okthumb:

[Almighty Colin]

Come on, Peaches. Come out and say what you really think. Alex is an American hating communist that takes cheap shots at America any time he can. The constant twisting and turning of every news story into "America is supposed to be *insert keywords here* but really isn't" is getting old. If you don't say it, I will.



Last edited by Colin at Feb 19 2003, 07:27 PM

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Colin@Feb 19 2003, 08:26 PM
Alex is an American hating communist that takes cheap shots at America any time he can.

If you don't say it, I will.
We can get you a T-shirt that says it!! :bjump:

(I'm still trying to find out if the McDonald's Hot Apple Pie boxes in Canada don't have the "Hot Filling" warning...... :awinky:)

[RawAlex]

Peaches, the boxes in ALL Mcdonalds worldwide have the warning - McLegal is all powerful...

Colin, climb back into your hole, dude. I am picking these stories up off of american media - it is enough of an issue to all people... on your side of the border.

The title of the thread comes from an American music artist.

You don't like the truth, too freakin' bad... but don't try to pawn everything off as some "american hating" conspiracy. It is really freakin' tiring to read out of you, it certainly limits my desire to post anything after you... you don't even look at the issues anymore, you just say "Alex is a communist that hates American" and think it covers everything. The only thing it covers is your ignorance and small, closed minded view of the world.

Alex



Last edited by RawAlex at Feb 19 2003, 07:44 PM

[Almighty Colin]

Alex,

The story itself is fine. Your sniper-like snide snips and snipes at the USA are not. They are both obvious and transparent, obtuse and tragic.

Your short commentary on the story is loaded from "I find it funny" to your usage of the phrase "land of free speech" to the cheapish well, sheepish "not exactly".

You say I don't even look at the issues anymore and yet over and over again you spew forth anti-American sentiment. It's obvious from the choice of articles that you post to your comments on them. You've been doing it for years.

Peaches gets it. (" It has nothing to do with free speech." )

You don't.



Last edited by Colin at Feb 19 2003, 08:10 PM

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 07:44 PM
I am picking these stories up off of american media
If I post 12 articles that I read at a New Guinean news site and comment on each of them pointing out the "problem with New Guinea", in the end I can't say "What are you talking about? I am picking these stories up off of New Guinean media".

Choice of articles + Commentary on articles = an overall pattern.

[gigi]

*enters ducking to avoid the sh*t flying from the fan*

Although it isn't clearly a case of 'free speech', it's also not about a dress code of sorts.

Schools spokesman Dave Mustonen said students have the right to freedom of expression, but educators are sensitive to tensions caused by the conflict with Iraq.

According the school spokesman, the student was sent home because they were afraid the shirt would cause an uprise at a school in a community where 55% of the population is Arab-American.

Just an observation....you may continue to sling sh*t now..... :ph34r:

[PornoDoggy]

Alex ... got a question for you. An Ontario judge recently sentenced an individual convicted of possession and distribution of child pornography to the laughable sentence of 14 months house arrest 3 months probation. Can I infer from that incident that Canada is a haven for child pornographers?

You and I tend to agree (at least in part) on a lot of issues, but the constant haranguing you've been doing lately is very likely to get you appointed the antiTorone.

There are many schools with the U.S. where a student would be allowed to wear that shirt. Legally, the school is on somewhat questionable ground in view of a 1969 Supreme Court case called Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District. The main reason I know of the case is that the one of the named plaintiffs later became a friend of mine in high school. However, the courts have also given schools wide latitude over maintaining order and discipline, and have consistently not given children the same rights as adults. So, as usually happens, it boils down to interpretation.

Me? I think it was political speech and should have been protected - the kid should have been allowed to wear it. But to view this incident - at one school in one of the 553 school districts in the Michigan - as an indication of the lack of freedom of speech in America is a statement right up there with "all liberals are traitors" in the rarified air of the Moron Zone.

[RawAlex]

Colin, your hatred for hearing anything bad about america is shocking.

You, the man of free speech, of gonzo marketing... I would think you would have a more critical view of the world. Instead, you appear to be sucked up the teat of "America the Perfect"... and your getting a full dose of the happy milk.

I posted this thread because it is a DOUBLE kicker - not just about freedom of speech, but the content of that speech. If the student came to school with "Clinton did it", you would praise it... and it probably wouldn't be news right now.

Sadly, you don't seem to be able to see that this isn't some grand scheme by a single Canadian to talk bad about your country, but rather a multi layer peek inside the real america that is all around you... where your rights, your actions, and your views, and those of other citizens collide...

Yes, I have an opinion, and if you don't like it, too fucking bad. I am as equally disgusted listening and reading people saying that America is the model for the rest of the world... that somehow America is perfect. It isn't, democracies are rarely perfect, and those imperfects are what makes them go. But America doesn't have the market cornered on perfection...

Again, you don't like the truth, too fucking bad.

Perhpas I just need to add a Colin & JR filter... ?

Alex

[RawAlex]

Pornodoggy, I was one of (hopefully) many people who sent a letter to our Federal Justice minister asking him to look into this issue. It is disgusting, especially considering our courts have quite clearly defined child porn and make it very easy to punish.

There is public outage in many parts of Canada as a result. It sucks. But, ya see, Canada doesn't claim to be perfect or to be the model for the world... so when we have a wart, we can all look at it and say "wart" without having to offend someone on the left of Rush Limbaugh.

The story is all about free speech, and as Gigi pointed out, the school is 55% arab american - I like the idea that they might be getting less freedom of speech because of who they are... that the arab part is more important than the american part... like I said, there is alot more to this story than WHAT they were trying to say...

The suggestion is that this same T-shirt might not be offensive in another school with less arabs... it's odd to look at.

Alex



Last edited by RawAlex at Feb 19 2003, 08:56 PM

[RawAlex]

Alex ... got a question for you. An Ontario judge recently sentenced an individual convicted of possession and distribution of child pornography to the laughable sentence of 14 months house arrest 3 months probation. Can I infer from that incident that Canada is a haven for child pornographers?


PD, sadly, from this, yes you can... and none of us are very proud of it. Makes me ashamed to admit I live here when shit like this happens.

Alex

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 08:28 PM
If the student came to school with "Clinton did it", you would praise it... and it probably wouldn't be news right now.


As PornoDoggy knows, I am a fan of Bill Clinton's. I think he was one of the best presidents in the past few decades. You're confused. Try again.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Feb 19 2003, 08:19 PM
You and I tend to agree (at least in part) on a lot of issues, but the constant haranguing you've been doing lately is very likely to get you appointed the antiTorone.

:rokk:

[gigi]

Originally posted by Colin+Feb 19 2003, 09:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Feb 19 2003, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@Feb 19 2003, 08:19 PM
You and I tend to agree (at least in part) on a lot of issues, but the constant haranguing you've been doing lately is very likely to get you appointed the antiTorone.

:rokk:[/b][/quote]
I think it's good in a way....we have two polar opposites here.....makes it easier to find somewhere in the middle.

:awinky:

[edited for twitty typo...]



Last edited by gigi at Feb 19 2003, 09:19 PM

[Nickatilynx]

Yet again I find myself agreeing with Alex!

This MUST change.

:agrin:

[RawAlex]

Nick, this is getting weird... apparently one of us isn't taking out medication! :-)

Alex

[Nickatilynx]

Whast I take is neither here nor there. :)

But I am prescribed nothing ;)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 08:28 PM
Colin, your hatred for hearing anything bad about america is shocking.

You, the man of free speech, of gonzo marketing... I would think you would have a more critical view of the world. Instead, you appear to be sucked up the teat of "America the Perfect"... and your getting a full dose of the happy milk.

....

Sadly, you don't seem to be able to see that this isn't some grand scheme by a single Canadian to talk bad about your country, but rather a multi layer peek inside the real america that is all around you... where your rights, your actions, and your views, and those of other citizens collide...


Sorry, Alex but there is a big difference between fair criticism and a continual pattern of twisting and turning every news story into "see what's wrong with America". Your twisted tricky trifle is not truth but conjecture.

"What's wrong with America"? It's a theme that you constantly revert to and can't seem to get away from. As I said yesterday, you can be sure you are reading the conspiracy websites when you keep repeating phrases such as "inside the real america".

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 19 2003, 09:18 PM
Yet again I find myself agreeing with Alex!

This MUST change.

:agrin:
Nick agrees with Alex.
Anthony works for Dig.

The communist invasion has begun.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 09:20 PM
Nick, this is getting weird... apparently one of us isn't taking out medication! :-)

Alex
I'd say you've over-medicated, Alex.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by gigi@Feb 19 2003, 09:13 PM
I think it's good in a way....we have two polar opposites here.....makes it easier to find somewhere in the middle.

:awinky:

[edited for twitty typo...]
Navigation points.

I'm already in the middle. Alex is far left.

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Colin+Feb 19 2003, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Feb 19 2003, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Nickatilynx@Feb 19 2003, 09:18 PM
Yet again I find myself agreeing with Alex!

This MUST change.

:agrin:
Nick agrees with Alex.
Anthony works for Dig.

The communist invasion has begun.[/b][/quote]
There's something strange in that, Colin? =o)

[RawAlex]

Colin, my medication is coffee...

We could talk about life in a small african nation, but honestly, it might not be stories that have much effect on your life or mine... unless that small african nation suddenly decides to take unilateral miltary action on Florida.

You cannot on one side say "American is great, free and open" and then shoot anyone who dares question it. The title of the thread comes from a US artist talking about the anti-naughty music panel lead by Tipper Gore many moons ago... that isn't some communist commenting on your country, it is a fellow countryman expressing his opinion. In my mind, the phrase is very appropriate considering the subject matter at hand (Ice-T, or those who wonder).

This story is making the tour... CNN, Drudge linked to a version in a UK news paper, saw it on the wires... It ain't me, Colin, quit trying to pin it on me... if I hadn't posted it, someone else would have.

Your just trying to bait me, trying to back me into saying something you can point at and laugh. Well, too fucking bad, I won't do it. I at least HAVE an opinion... your just doing what Rush and his clones do best, which is say nothing but belittle the opposition, not adding to the debate but attempting to win be removing the oppositions credibility. It's stupid, it's petty, and it doesn't help to come to a better solution - it just makes people shut up. The problem is once your petty little game is exposed, it doesn't work anymore.

Enjoy.

Alex

[RawAlex]

Originally posted by Colin@Feb 19 2003, 09:33 PM
Navigation points.

I'm already in the middle. Alex is far left.
I am surprsed you can see me, considering Rush Limbaugh is between you and me.

:o

Alex

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Anthony@Feb 19 2003, 09:39 PM

There's something strange in that, Colin? =o)
:ph34r:

[Diamond Jim]

Has anyone else noticed that Alex kind of looks like his avatar?

[Nickatilynx]

DJ,

hahahahahaha I used to be "King Penguin" on other boards ;)

[Vick]

A) - the shirt is in inappropriate to wear to school. It is a place of learning, not a place to make political statements

B) - as an American I will staunchly defend the right of someone to wear that shirt, however as a (somewhat right wing) patrotic American I may feel the need to put a foot in the ass of anyone wearing that shirt

C) - Alex does tend to occasionally come off with what can be seen as anti-American sentiments, however these statement are often tempered with prefaces or explanations of why he feels that way, and while I may not agree with many of those sentiments (and think the US should annex Montreal for the tit bars and to make Alex a US citizen since he is very concerned with the doings of the USA) it does get tiresome after a few years

[gigi]

Did you know that while you are reading this I'm having a fantasy where Jesus Christ is jackhammering Mickey Mouse in the doo-doo hole with a lawn dart as Garth Brooks gives birth to something resembling a cheddar cheese log with almonds on Santa Claus's tummy-tum

:blink:

[Vick]

"Did you know that while you are reading this I'm having a fantasy where Jesus Christ is jackhammering Mickey Mouse in the doo-doo hole with a lawn dart as Garth Brooks gives birth to something resembling a cheddar cheese log with almonds on Santa Claus's tummy-tum"

gigi - it's from the Bloodhound Gang classic
"A Lap Dance is so much better when the stripper is crying"

[gigi]

Ohhhhhh...lol....I almost stopped reading to spare you from such a fantasy... :P

[ulfie]

In America I have the right to call Alex a moron but I would fight to the death to preserve his right to be one.

[JR]

Alex you are a total fucking idiot.

i find it real difficult to believe that you would approve of people running around with shirts that say "rawalex" is a terrorist. its liabel... correct? you would be pissing and moaning and squealing like a bitch that "the system was failing to protect your rights" and that "the US - the land of law and order is bullshit"

Not that its any of your fucking business but where does it say in the Constitution that "freedom of speech" means you can say anything about anything? when did "freedom of speech" begin to mean that i can go on TV saying that RawAlex rapes children? in case you are not aware, you cannot say anything about anything and anyone. there are laws to protect people rights on both sides.

What does "America, land of the free" or "just watch what you say" have to do with the decision of a school administrator or principal who made a decision about what may or may not be appropriate attire for school given the specific demographics in the area and existing racial tensions? in case you are not aware (and not that its any of your fucking business) most schools have dress codes to some extent... but your really not bitching about that are you?

so Alex, are you saying that a shirt saying "I hate niggers" is ok for a 13 year old to wear to school in Oakland, CA?

oh... your not? you mean that somewhere there may be a border between acceptable and unnaceptable, appropriate and innapropriate? how would that decision be made?... by a person perhaps? maybe by a person acting within his right and within the law and within the guidlines set by the schoolboard?

is it just a simple question of freedom of speech to be able to go to school with a graphic t-shirt of mutilated babies?

dont be a retard. but DO stay in Canada.

[RawAlex]

JR, did you go to the Colin school of don't add anything, just belittle anyone with an opinion not like yours? All you have done is pump useless non-related buzzwords into the discussion, and try to fuzzy people's vision by getting them excited about the buzzwords, not the facts.

We ain't talking about hate speech or anything anti any ethnic group, so your anti-racial slurs ain't worth the time to talk about.

How about you start with facts? The T-shirt was a legitimate political expression - if it was on a picket sign carried by an adult in front of the white house, it would be "news"... it's free speech (your amendment #1, if I remember correctly).

"School officials ordered a 16-year-old student to either take off a T-shirt emblazoned with the words ``International Terrorist'' and a picture of President Bush or go home, saying they worried it would inflame passions at the school where a majority of students are Arab-American.

The student, Bretton Barber, chose to go home. He said he wore the shirt Monday to express his anti-war position and for a class assignment in which he wrote a compare-contrast essay on Bush and Iraq President Saddam Hussein. "

So they weren't worried about offending bush, they weren't afraid of getting sued because the whitehouse didn't like the shirt, but they shut someone's right to free speech down because some people might be 'inflamed'. No guidelines, no standards...

That sucks, and it sucks enough to have been read around the world... think about that. If nothing else, it means at least a few people, like writers, editors, and such figured that there was something there.

There is a big difference between political opinion and groundless bullshit. Your obviously too ignorant to see the difference. No wait, your not ignorant, your just using the same bullshit debating style that says "I don't have a better answer, but I am going to make fun of your answer" and fill your discussion with total bullshit in an attempt to make yoruself look brilliant.

Well, you don't. You just look like a stupid child incapable of bringing anything to the table, and incapable of seeing the shades of grey in the middle of the discussion.

It's sad, you and Colin deserve each other...

Alex

[JR]

and to top it off Alex, you spent two days trying to explain the massive US Government conspiracy to control US media, peoples opinions, beliefs and interpretations of events and the brainwash American public... you tried exhaustively to explain how irrelevant US news is as well as American political opinions. you continue to attack those who dissagree with you as such (brainwashed etc) by making references to Rush Limbaugh (identifying nothing more that your own far left views)

then,.. you continue by try to make an inflamatory point about the US (a country which you seem to hate and resent) by referring to a one paragraph snippet from CNN about a "heard it all before" story that happens at least everyday in some town somewhere in the US. Its a story that if it was in printed, could only be found somewhere between an editorial on lawn care and help wanted ads.

... and presumably in direct contradiction to your other rants... this story is not a part of the massive Government/Media conspiracy, only because you can identify with it and it supports your fucked up, semi-communist, leftist, ultra liberal views that put down someones attempt a negative political statement about the one person you fear most in the world... George W Bush Jr.

it must suck to be you.

you dumbass.



Last edited by JR at Feb 20 2003, 01:19 AM

[JR]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 01:11 AM


The student, Bretton Barber, chose to go home. He said he wore the shirt Monday to express his anti-war position and for a class assignment in which he wrote a compare-contrast essay on Bush and Iraq President Saddam Hussein. "

your a fucking retard.

so, i can make a shirt with a false statement saying "RawAlex is a murdering terrorist" and then justify it by claiming my intent is to simply express my opinion on proper grammar and sentence structure.

that should make it ok right?



Last edited by JR at Feb 20 2003, 09:20 AM

[RawAlex]

JR, your a fucking moron beyond morons... and you can stop posting comments like that about me, okay? You have seriously crossed the line, to a point I don't want to have to go. I would kindly suggest you edit your posts.

Fuckheads like you make boards like this a real waste of time.

I left the discussion about politics because it goes nowhere... debating you and Colin is nothing more that putting up ideas to watch you be insulting and moronic. No new ideas, no discussion, just "your a fucking retard".

Well, have some of your own back, fuckwad.

Your a waste of time. and a waste I won't make with you or Colin anymore. GFY.

thanks,

Alex

[JR]

alex, you are just an ass. i dont love Bush or Republicans and i dont care about the good or bad fashion sense.

you made a lot of decisions with a flimsy story. you were able to read into everyones motivations - namely the school board and school principal and concerned faculty, even though none of them were interviewed. its a pretty one sided piece that you are using to make a really pointed political point about the perfectly flawed US Constitution.

you know nothing about the kid. you dont know that he was not warned 50 times for wearing similar clothes. you know nothing about the dress codes of that school (most schools have dress codes) - you really dont know a fucking thing about anything and you are disecting an insignificant story to make a broader point about the Constitution.

you drew conclusions

1) "The T-shirt was a legitimate political expression"
but you dont want to talk about if its illegal to call someone a terrorist

2) "He said he wore the shirt Monday to express his anti-war position and for a class assignment"

- ok... "he said" usually there is two sides to a story right? where is the second?

3) "So they weren't worried about offending bush?"
- who knows what they were worried about you fucking moron... this is JUST AN ASSUMPTION ON YOUR PART

4) "but they shut someone's right to free speech down because some people might be 'inflamed'. No guidelines, no standards..."

what guidlines and standards? is there a statement from the principal? the school board? is there a statement by the school? a copy of the school dress code policies?

there is nothing there... you are making all these horrific assumptions with only a fraction of the story and then calling it "facts"


RawAlex, you are the best case i have seen yet for moving the age of abortion from second trimester to 40 years old.

[RawAlex]

JR, you have mail.

Your obvious inability to read, and to discuss anything without insult, without libelous comments makes any further discussion useless. You have shown your true colors today, and it is sad.

have a good one.

Alex



Last edited by RawAlex at Feb 20 2003, 05:02 AM

[JR]

Alex, insults are insults. Its just as insulting to hear day after day to hear "why you guys are so fucked up, by RawAlex"

its not "a political discussion"
its a pattern of abusive and insulting behavior, missleading and inflamatory remarks that are unfair, innacurate and VERY biased to the FAR left by anyones definition.

your "conclusions" and "facts" below are a good example of where your head is at. i cant speak for Colin, but i know that he thinks quite a bit like i do in most cases. i would look at that story and tell you that there is not enough info there to make an opinion about anything except that the school administration had a problem with his shirt. ... even that is an assumption because there is only one side of the story and what there is of a "story" is not much.

you took some incomplete information, and less than half of a story and extrapolated into a massive infringement of Constitutional rights.

thats not balanced, intelligent or fair. the "story" is not a basis for political discussion since there are no facts to discuss and the entire discussion is based on conjecture and assumptions. drawing conclusions from the information you quoted about complex Constitutional issues, The President of the US, the motivations of the school administration and State law as well as other facts that may exist but were not presented is just bizarre, reactionary and delusional.



Last edited by JR at Feb 20 2003, 02:02 AM

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Anthony@Feb 19 2003, 09:39 PM

There's something strange in that, Colin? =o)
No, I dig dig! .. and you. You guys are gonna make a fortune.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 09:47 PM
your just doing what Rush and his clones do best, which is say nothing but belittle the opposition
That's your second Rush Limbaugh reference in just a few hours. Not only that, you're so flustered that your normally gracious grammar is falling to pieces.

If you're gonna play in this game you need to step up. Repeating the same old tired "Rush
Limbaugh" lines that you read at GFY won't cut it. On the political spectrum, you come
across as a cross between Robin Hood and Peter Pan, prancing around merrily wanting to take
from the rich and give to the poor.

[Torone]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 07:06 PM
I don't agree with the setiments of the shirt (not exactly) but I find it funny that in the land of free speech, an opposing viewpoint is not acceptable in a place of learning.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/19/a...t.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/19/antibush.tshirt.ap/index.html)

Alex
Want something even funnier? The schools here (public and some private) are being run by Leftist Utopians, otherwise known as ultra-Liberal indoctrinators. :nyanya: :nyanya: :nyanya:

[Torone]

Originally posted by Colin@Feb 20 2003, 07:27 AM
[QUOTE=RawAlex,Feb 19 2003, 09:47 PM]If you're gonna play in this game you need to step up. Repeating the same old tired "Rush
Limbaugh" lines that you read at GFY won't cut it. On the political spectrum, you come
across as a cross between Robin Hood and Peter Pan, prancing around merrily wanting to take
from the rich and give to the poor.
And BTW, Robin Hood didn't rob the rich. He took from the gov't (represented by the Sheriff of Nottingham) and gave back to the people (sort of a tax rebate.) :ph34r: :nyanya:

[Mike AI]

[QUOTE]i am going to wear my "RawAlex molested my daughter for 10 years" shirt to express my opinion on proper grammar and sentence structure.[QUOTE]


JR this comment was a little bit much.... I have been knowing Alex for a long time, this incudes many in person meetings and such. He is a cool guy, I know you were making a point with sarcasim... but maybe you could have gone with another one liner rather then dealing with sexual abuse of a minor.... that is probably going over the line.


Alex, you have strong opinion, not everyone will agree with them but you represent them well.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Torone@Feb 20 2003, 08:55 AM
And BTW, Robin Hood didn't rob the rich. He took from the gov't (represented by the Sheriff of Nottingham) and gave back to the people (sort of a tax rebate.) :ph34r: :nyanya:
Haha.

And then there's this. From some site somewhere ...

Some think that "the first genuine appearance of Robyn Hod in printed form occurs in A Lytell Jeste of Robyn Hode, a poem telling the story of an outlaw and his adventures. This ballad was written down by a man named Wynken de Worde in 1489 and is preserved today at the public library in Cambridge, England.

This poem dates from the late 15th century (printed by Worde at end of the 15th but was actually from the 14th), and it was widely read in its printed language of Olde English at that time. The tale takes place in Barnsdale Forest in Yorkshire. Robyn and his band of men resided in this forest, robbing passers-by on Watling Street near the River Went, a street leading straight to London in the South—a street full of rich travelers."

[JR]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 20 2003, 06:54 AM
[QUOTE]i am going to wear my "RawAlex molested my daughter for 10 years" shirt to express my opinion on proper grammar and sentence structure.[QUOTE]


JR this comment was a little bit much.... I have been knowing Alex for a long time, this incudes many in person meetings and such. He is a cool guy, I know you were making a point with sarcasim... but maybe you could have gone with another one liner rather then dealing with sexual abuse of a minor.... that is probably going over the line.

this is precisely my point Mike.

there are boundaries as to what is acceptable and not acceptable. Alex is making the argument that the school was wrong... but not acknowledging where those boundaries may lie... much less the existence of such boundaries, be they Constitutional, moral, legal or not. There is Federal, State, local law as well as in this case, a school board policy and a school policy... and on top of that, it was a decision that was more or less made by the principal his/herself. There are many things that are considered when deciding what may be appropriate and innapropriate behavior in any given situation.

it would be VERY wrong of me to wear a shirt like that. i agree. that was the point of saying it. And i think that we both agree that to wear a shirt like that and for their to be controversy about it, would not have be indicative of some Government conspiracy to trample on the First Amendment. And i want to point out that its not just a "government conspiracy" Alex is afraid of.. .its a Republican government conspiracy.

By Alex's logic, my right to wear such a shirt is protected "freedom of speech" and for Alex to be consistent with his own logic and argument, he has to defend my right to wear such a shirt.

Alex may be a cool guy. i dont know him. a message board is just pixels.
Non-stop posts about "why America and Americans suck, by RawAlex" is fine with me. but it should not be expected that people dont fire back. being extremely provacative, offensive and insulting again and again does not give him the right to say "hey man, its just a political discussion"

I dont have any particular insecurities about my heritage, my ethnicity or origins or where i live. I dont fear my own government whether it is Republican or Democrat and i dont feel that each new day is worst that the last as some people seem to. I certainly dont feel a burning need to engulf myself in the internal affairs of Iceland, Lichtenstein or Guam or anywhere else because they exist only to make me feel worse about myself due to some sort of Freudian trainwreck of a personality that causes me to live in deep fear of an invisible boogeyman and the 250,000,000 million neighbors that are just too stupid to "get it".

if Alex wants to keep calling Americans stupid, which he calls "harmless political discussion" - then Alex should be right here taking the heat for it.

if anyone wants to know a T-shirt story - here is a good one.

when i was a punk ass teen, i had a T-Shirt that said "Adolf Hitlers World Tour 39-45" showing a map of Europe and the dates of their attacks on different cities. it was a mock shirt of typical bands to show their tour, where they played etc.

i was standing in line in a store in Anchorage Alaska and an old man walked up to me and said with a tear in his eye "i am happy that you did not lose your whole family in that war like i did. its why you can laugh about the worlds greatest tragedy"

i went home and threw the shirt away.

Why?

it was in poor taste. it was innapropriate. it was not "free speech" - it was just an 18 year old kid with his head up his ass trying to piss people off. the President did not make me do it. and i certainly did not wear it to school because the reaction would have been very predictable.

to this day, i am still ashamed at some of the things i did like that. ashamed of the hurt that it caused others and ashamed that i was so ignorant and full of myself that i did not mind hurting people in the deepest and most offensive way.

but i dont blame the President. I dont blame the School board. i dont blame the Constitution. I blame myself... and i am greatful that someone had the courage to walk up to me and say something about it.

[RawAlex]

JR, quite simply, there is "heat" and there is libel.

You crossed the line. I have sent you mail, and I have asked nice - you need to edit your posts to remove the problem phrase. In our industry we don't even JOKE about attacking children. Taken at a glance, people could form an opinion of me, and greatly affect my livelyhood.

I consulted. It is actionable. I'm being nice about it right now.

Call me a moron, and asshole, whatever... that is just name calling and who cares. You clearly suggested that I committed a horrible act,without any proof to back it up. You posted it in a public forum. I already have had email on the subject.

It made me physically ill.

I asked you in private, and I will ask you in public. Be a man, realize you are out of line, and fix the problem. This is the last request.

The next one will be alot more expensive - and I don't want to have to go that way.

thanks

Alex

[JR]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 09:02 AM
JR, quite simply, there is "heat" and there is libel.

You crossed the line. I have sent you mail, and I have asked nice - you need to edit your posts to remove the problem phrase. In our industry we don't even JOKE about attacking children. Taken at a glance, people could form an opinion of me, and greatly affect my livelyhood.

I consulted. It is actionable. I'm being nice about it right now.

Call me a moron, and asshole, whatever... that is just name calling and who cares. You clearly suggested that I committed a horrible act,without any proof to back it up. You posted it in a public forum. I already have had email on the subject.

It made me physically ill.

I asked you in private, and I will ask you in public. Be a man, realize you are out of line, and fix the problem. This is the last request.

The next one will be alot more expensive - and I don't want to have to go that way.

thanks

Alex
anything is "actionable" Alex, thats why the US is the most litigeous country in the world.

nice final arguement in your "political discussion"

call the President of the United States a terrorist=Freedom of Speech.
joke about RawAlex=threat from RawAlex

[RawAlex]

JR, I gave you the chance. I am sorry for whatever else comes of this.

You obviously are not able to tell when you have crossed a line. Some stuff you don't joke about.

I really am sorry for you.

[DrGuile]

Originally posted by JR@Feb 20 2003, 12:16 PM
nice final arguement in your "political discussion"

call the President of the United States a terrorist=Freedom of Speech.
joke about RawAlex=threat from RawAlex
I've heard better jokes...

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by DrGuile+Feb 20 2003, 12:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DrGuile @ Feb 20 2003, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JR@Feb 20 2003, 12:16 PM
nice final arguement in your "political discussion"

call the President of the United States a terrorist=Freedom of Speech.
joke about RawAlex=threat from RawAlex
I've heard better jokes...[/b][/quote]
Q: What´s black and white and goes round and around?
A: A Penguin in a revolving door.

[JR]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 09:20 AM
JR, I gave you the chance. I am sorry for whatever else comes of this.

You obviously are not able to tell when you have crossed a line. Some stuff you don't joke about.

I really am sorry for you.
i modified the post some time ago.

so you are free to change your diaper, find your pacifier and get back to work with more of your "why America sucks" posts.

[JR]

its also like the 10th time you have replied to me after promising you will not reply to me anymore.

where can my attorney send the C&D ?

[The Other Steve]

Sorry JR but for those of us who have children who have been molested it was no joke - and never will be.

[JR]

Originally posted by The Other Steve@Feb 20 2003, 09:39 AM
Sorry JR but for those of us who have children who have been molested it was no joke - and never will be.
i do not find humor in it. it was not intended to be humorous. i dont think that anyone who could have read it would have reasonably thought it was a serious remark.

i said it to make the simple point that was made perfectly by Alex's threats to me. there are boundaries to acceptable behavior and it is not an issue of "free speech" nor is it necessarily a republican government conspiracy to show what a biased flake he is.

sometimes people say and do dumb shit and it just does not mean anything.

the kid did it.
i did it.
and alex couldn't stop himself from doing it even if he was locked in a padded bank vault and unconscious.



Last edited by JR at Feb 20 2003, 09:48 AM

[RawAlex]

Jr, as I mentioned in mail, moving me from one criminal offence to another isn't exactly fixing the problem.

I have commited no crimes of a sexual nature.

I have not murdered anyone.

Heck, I had a bondage girl complain that I don't spank hard enough.

Please keep working your edits. your getting closer to not being in a very bad position.

Alex

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 12:20 PM
JR, I gave you the chance. I am sorry for whatever else comes of this.
Are you going to kill him and prove him right?

[JR]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 10:41 AM
Jr, as I mentioned in mail, moving me from one criminal offence to another isn't exactly fixing the problem.

I have commited no crimes of a sexual nature.

I have not murdered anyone.

Heck, I had a bondage girl complain that I don't spank hard enough.

Please keep working your edits. your getting closer to not being in a very bad position.

Alex
i am sorry Alex, i thought there was a specific remark or referrence that offended you. it was removed.

i am confused on this free speech thing and your interpretation of it.

is you threatening to hurt my family as you did in e-mail free speech?

please clarify.

[Sword]

There needs to be a "popcorn" smiley for me to interject into a thread like this one.

In the meantime this will have to do:

:stout:

[Almighty Colin]

Alex,

You pussy! Sending me messages that my company might be responsible for making libelous statements against you and that I need to get it straightened out is harassment. Keep it up or send me one more such message and you'll need a bodyguard and a restraining order at the next show too.

Add that to your lawsuit, asshole. I'm sure that will be enough to make you cry, get sick, clean the toilet and call your lawyer. I really don't give a shit.

There isn't a single person here who thinks you are a murderer just because JR said "i can make a shirt with a false statement saying "RawAlex is a murdering terrorist" and then justify it by claiming my intent is to simply express my opinion on proper grammar and sentence structure".

Jesus, pull the rod out of your ass and fucking lighten up. It's sad that this is all you had left in the debate. Threatening lawsuits.

[RawAlex]

Colin, you know me, I always have more to contibute to a debate... as I stated, I don't really care what you call me in the "name" department, that is all bluster and crap... who cares.

I am not a criminal, don't want to be labeled as one, especially not for the type of crimes your partner has suggested.

My understanding of the US legal system made me want to contact you, hoping that your more level head would help to encourage your partner to do the right thing.

The rod in my ass is there because your partner put it there. I wouldn't have it there otherwise, you know me, I ain't much for lawyers and I sure ain't much for courtrooms. I wouldn't want to have to go down that road, it is ugly and nobody wins... but JR does need to know where the line in the sand is that marks the end of playful and moves over to serious.

Alex

[Diamond Jim]

What if we thought Alex was a murdering terrorist before reading it on Oprano? Does that count?

[RawAlex]

DJ: It's an amazing world, you can have a personal opinion... but you cannot state it as fact when it ain't true.

That's just how the game is played. :-)

Alex

[Diamond Jim]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 04:04 PM
DJ: It's an amazing world, you can have a personal opinion... but you cannot state it as fact when it ain't true.

That's just how the game is played. :-)

Alex
In other words, you should not be able to wear a t-shirt calling the President an "International Terrorist", because some people may read that shirt and ASSUME that it's true rather than merely a personal opinion...

Glad we have come to an agreement on at least one issue...

[Peaches]

I don't have a dog in this fight and I'm honestly not picking sides, but in reading this, a dumb legal question came to mind:

How libelous is "Raw Alex is ANYTHING" since Raw Alex isn't a legal entity? Contrary to popular belief, my birth name wasn't Peaches. I daresay, Diamond Jim's wasn't Diamond Jim (though I could be wrong :awinky: ), MikeAI probably isn't really MikeAI, and I'm thinking Raw Alex isn't on anyone's birth certificate, driver's license, business records, tax certificates, etc.

I'm not asking to stir up trouble, I'm honestly curious as to where a "username" starts and stops being something you can legally defame.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 04:04 PM
DJ: It's an amazing world, you can have a personal opinion... but you cannot state it as fact when it ain't true.

That's just how the game is played. :-)

Alex
I hardly call a hypothetical point made ONLY to demonstrate the absurdity of your statement an attempt to present something as a fact that is not true. The point was by it's very nature intended to be absurd in order to demonstrate the silliness of your proposition. That is all.

If you really think JR was trying to convince people that you are a murderer or that you molested his daughter (who is 28 years old and adopted anyway. Those Alaskans are strange with their Russian-bride "contracts". ) - then you are awful at reading people's intentions. If you further think anyone believed it, you are even worse.

[Almighty Colin]

I know the real Peaches and am glad to say I do.

For the record .. I am the real Colin. :groucho:

[RawAlex]

DJ: Actually, there is a car that was blown up in the middle of Yemen by a US miliary device. The US has not declared war on Yemen, but took military action. If someone from Yemen did the same in the US, you could label him a terrorist.

While the comment is not popular, it isn't 100% out of line either.

It is one of those things, you know?

Alex

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Colin@Feb 20 2003, 05:18 PM
I know the real Peaches and am glad to say I do.
Hehehe - here's a long, funny story:

Was born one name. Got married, changed name, got divorced, went back to maiden name, divorce attorney screwed up so my "maiden" name is different than my birth certificate and I have no middle name now - just an initial.

My son - I changed his name when I got divorced so HIS name isn't the same as his birth certificate. What fun getting passports, going through customs, getting gun permit, getting into school, sports teams, etc. is - especially when it's the two of us together. I'm sure we look like a couple of blue eyed terrorists (which I can say, since I'm saying it against myself, and I know I don't own anything so suing me will net nothing :awinky: )

[RawAlex]

Colin, the problem comes from people who read comments like that and then take them out of context. Alot of people just skim boards... like, say Luke Ford. Suddenly, there is a headline on Luke Ford: JR says Rawalex is a ******* and will be making up t-shirts to sell in protest". He would be taking an offhand comment, turning it into a publish fact that, even after 100 retractions, would still leave that opinion in people's minds.

Then my reputation, my ability to do business with people would be affected forever.

It also has to do with debate and discussion. Already, calling people names isn't exactly productive (24 years ago, it was determined that any message board post that started with "Hey asshole" usually wouldn't be read. You may not like my opinions, so debate them, but don't mock the person - that is pointless.

Alex

[JR]

freedom of speech... just watch what you say!
alex said it best.
:rolleyes:

[Vick]

Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 20 2003, 04:13 PM
Contrary to popular belief, my birth name wasn't Peaches. I daresay, Diamond Jim's wasn't Diamond Jim (though I could be wrong :awinky: ), MikeAI probably isn't really MikeAI, and I'm thinking Raw Alex isn't on anyone's birth certificate, driver's license, business records, tax certificates, etc.

But I am really Vick, well at least according to my birth certificate (which I could be personally unsure of as I was not of sound mind and body at the time of it's issuance
Not Victor, Not Vicki or Vicky (except for those "special" nights) :groucho:

Now this whole ball of wax is getting :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: so the combants please take viarga, grease up and sword fight or :inlove: :inlove: :hic: :hic: :barfon: :barfon: then :stout: more and :barfon: again and then :wankit: till you :barfon:

[Sword]

As an observer of this debacle, I'd like to say that JR said the insulting line once. You have repeated it about 20 times Alex. It seems to me if you were worried about people reading it as you say, you wouldn't have turned one instance of it into a dozen or more. Further you have demanded he remove it, yet the countless times you repeated it are still there. Are you worried the people "skimming" as you say, will still see it and misunderstand?

No, this is about ego and overreaction in my humble opinion. Nothing more.

That being said, I have overreacted many times on boards myself. It's easy to do.

My 2 cents anyways.

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 20 2003, 04:22 PM
DJ: Actually, there is a car that was blown up in the middle of Yemen by a US miliary device. The US has not declared war on Yemen, but took military action. If someone from Yemen did the same in the US, you could label him a terrorist.


Alex, only you can twist shit and make something out of nothing.

Attack by a US drone on a car full of Al Qaida WANTED terrorists was appproved by the president of Yemen. He got a lot of heat for it when that was leaked out through the press. Unlike your friends the French, Yemen gives us permission to fly over their air space.

and btw, we did not take military action against Yemen. Stop making shit up.

and what does this have to do with anything ??

[$tanDaMan]

Does anyone have any info on who exactly was murdered by RawAlex?

Thats the good Juice! C'mon Colin, give it up! :)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by $tanDaMan@Feb 22 2003, 03:49 PM
Does anyone have any info on who exactly was murdered by RawAlex?

Thats the good Juice! C'mon Colin, give it up! :)
He killed the radio star.

[Torone]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 19 2003, 07:06 PM
I don't agree with the setiments of the shirt (not exactly) but I find it funny that in the land of free speech, an opposing viewpoint is not acceptable in a place of learning.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/19/a...t.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/19/antibush.tshirt.ap/index.html)

Alex
The First Amendment only bars the gov't from infringeing upon the right of free speech. If we're face to face and you call me a name and I mess you up, you can have me arrested for assault; but NOT for violating your civil rights.