Bin Laden Is Dead

[LA Mike]

I saw the other post and made me think of this. I know this comes up regularaly but comon.. Bin Laden is dead.

There is no way you could have shut him up this long. He is too full of himself and there is no way he wouldnt be talking all kinds of crap right now about how he avoided our "U.S." invasion.

Either that or he is just really fricken scared and is going to hide out for 2 years. Its going to be hard for him to hide out and not be noticed considering he is so tall.

I just think he is burried in some cave!


:agrin:

[Rolo]

I think he got blown up by all the US bombing that hit his caves... he is not dead, but he is probably so messed up, that they don´t dare to show his face on TV, and kill the image the world have of him :ph34r:

[LA Mike]

I dont doubt that at all

[Mike AI]

I think this is pretty accurate. Bin laden loved the camera, he was always on it. Most meglomanics do.... if he was alive or in good shape, he would be cranking out more videos proving he is in good shape, and making certain the video notes specific date so the US cannot say it is old.

[VooMan]

I wonder if perhaps he's laying low to make us wonder whether or not we got him. Even though he's a publicity hound he's crazy like a fox and just might like the fact that we don't know for sure...

[Sword]

Well al qaeda is releasing audio they claim is him, so why would he not release video? If the audio is legit (which I dont think it is), then he isn't trying to keep it a secret wether he is alive or dead. So it really makes no sense to say he isn't doing video to keep people guessing on his status.

There's one reason it's audio and not video IMHO. It's a lot easier to fake an audio recording than a video of him. He's dead. Dead or so fucked up he looks like Darkman.

I personally think the audio coming out, is desperate measures from al qaeda, faking his voice and trying to pretend he is alive. A good question would be, if it is fake, why does the USA go along with it and say they think the recordings are legit? Is it in our interests to have the public assume he is alive at this point?

I thought there was technology that could match a voice almost as precisely as a fingerprint or DNA?

[RawAlex]

Sword: There are a couple of issues with this tape that I have problems with:

It's too good quality. Everything else from bin laden, even the stuff from his personal video crew, has sounded and looked like super cheap amateur porn tapes. Filmed / recorded in poor locations, noisy audio, etc. This new tape (from what I have heard of it) is quite clear, low noise, seemly recorded somewhere relatively noise free.

Which brings point 2, timing. This tape has been released "just in time" for Bush in his dealings with certain less cooperative allies. For the first time I can remember, Colin Powell pre-announced the tape by a few hours - very odd, to say the least.

I am not saying that this one is a plant, but, damn, it's not like all the others.

If Bin Ladin is alive, I am SURE 100% that he would appear in video and audio form, no matter his condition. He wants to be a Martyr for the cause, so a wound wouldn't be a negative issue. Look at the amount of hate and horseshit coming from the hook handed cleric in England.

I just find that as time goes on, I am not trusting EITHER side anymore.

Alex

[<IMX>]

I think the Al Qaeda issue is a matter of conveince. We implicate Saddam in Al Qeada, then do a switcheroo and say he has chemical weapons. However, the Bush administration consistently mix two distinct issues, as fuse Saddam with Osama.

Having a good enemy i.e. one that you can take a "moral" position against, can do great things for a president--it did wonders for Ronald Reagan's popularity.

The war in Iraq allows a permenant presence for the next 40-50 years right next to the Saudis and within striking distance of Syria, Jordan and Iran. Given a permenant presence, how much anti-US posturing can the Saudis do in the muslim world?

The long term strategy is probably in the best interest of the United States. However, the short term reasons are pure bullshit.

[JR]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 12 2003, 05:45 PM
Sword: There are a couple of issues with this tape that I have problems with:

It's too good quality. Everything else from bin laden, even the stuff from his personal video crew, has sounded and looked like super cheap amateur porn tapes. Filmed / recorded in poor locations, noisy audio, etc. This new tape (from what I have heard of it) is quite clear, low noise, seemly recorded somewhere relatively noise free.

Which brings point 2, timing. This tape has been released "just in time" for Bush in his dealings with certain less cooperative allies. For the first time I can remember, Colin Powell pre-announced the tape by a few hours - very odd, to say the least.

I am not saying that this one is a plant, but, damn, it's not like all the others.

If Bin Ladin is alive, I am SURE 100% that he would appear in video and audio form, no matter his condition. He wants to be a Martyr for the cause, so a wound wouldn't be a negative issue. Look at the amount of hate and horseshit coming from the hook handed cleric in England.

I just find that as time goes on, I am not trusting EITHER side anymore.

Alex
RawAlex, i think you have it backwards. the previous Bin Laden Videos were professional and of good quality. the only video released after 9/11 that was of poor quality is of the one that shows him talking about 9/11 in the room with a couple other guys which looks like it was shot with a cam corder in a poorly lit room. the other vidoes were professionally done, with professional cameras and professional lighting.

you say the last audio tape is of too good of quality. it was not good quality. it was poor quality and as such and due to the echo and other quirks, it is suspected to have been recorded over the phone. i dont know what would make you think it was of good quality, much less "better than the rest"

the tape said one thing that was a little odd and that was the remark saying something like "even thier smart weapons are useless against your bunkers". of course during the course of Afghanistan, they released a new "bunker buster" bomb which was certainly not useless.

Colin Powell may or may not have announced the existence of the tape first, but like all others, it came from Al Jazeera... not Rush Limbaugh.

you say that the timing is "suspicious". why? isnt it the perfect time for him to take advantage of the situation and stir up more shit against the US? seems like a time that was well chosen to me... right at the height of dissagreement amongst allies over Iraq. What would be a better time?

if he is alive, its not like he can just pick up a bullhorn and stand on the street and scream "down with Infidels" all day long. any attempt at any sort of contact with the outside world would compromise his location. i would not expect that the most hunted man in the world and experienced military leader to be bragging about where he is.

I would not say it is unreasonable for him to release audio only. he was visably thinner, battered and worn on the last video he released after Tora Bora. He has serious kidney problems and he was in the center of an area that was mercilously bombed to shit for weeks on end. Was i the only one watching Taliban fighters walking out of caves with blood pouring out of their ears and noses from the continual bombing?

he has not been proven to be dead. no country has offered info that he is dead. the prior videos were thought by the world to prove that he was alive after Tora Bora.

[Mojo]

When/if he's dead he becomes a "martyr" and his enlightend masses of followers will be whipped into an even more frevent frenzy.

Of course he'll be in heaven with his 72 virgins. (or is it 62 virgins?) :wnw:

[Mike AI]

JR some people are going to be thinking conspiracy no matter what.

The evidence that Powell showed the world at the UN did not convince one country/person who was against the war.

Of course they are going to say it is circumstantial, that the US faked the evidence because the US wants to go to war, to take over Iraqs oil!!!

Come on JR wake up!!!

[JR]

i am not saying i am for or against war. it just struck me as being odd to see the remark supporting an arguement that the audio tape that was released was of good quality. the opposite is true. it was poor quality.

other than that, i dont care. i care less and less everyday. there is no right or wrong answer. i think all parties outside Iraq are right. but i think that in the end, there is only the will and determination to survive. i believe in Darwinism. the strong survive and evolve. The weak end up wandering around a sun baked desert, only to take breaks from worshipping "holy" sticks and rocks to kick their wives around and shoot at each other in the name of their "god".

i dont believe in any inherent good in people. i think that people deeply overestimate the permanence of change. i think people are deeply irrational and too often driven by emotion, causing history to repeat itself time and time again. i dont have any romantic ideas about global peace and unity and cats and dogs living together in harmony. todays situation will be over and a new one will begin elsewhere.

for each person who is willing to be noble, to stand up and pray for peace... there is another person waiting to slide his cock up that guys ass just because he was foolish enough to turn his back.

there will always be war. people are never satisfied that everything is ok or that everything is fair. there will always be "oppression"... there will always be an "oppressor" and their will always be "victems". it will never matter if any one of those or all 3 are real or imagined. they are ideas that have always existed no matter what the circumstances are... and serve only to provide a vehicle for whacked out and deeply flawed people to channel agression and anger and project it outward.

history classes 100 years from now, will only show a record of current events as the "war of i dont care"... it will be a nothing more than a little red dot on a 20,000 year time line of people, religions, nations and cultures slaughtering each other... being tought to kids who are preoccupied with getting stoned, the party friday night, screwing a cheerleader, acne creams or worrying about who has the nicest wheels on their car.



Last edited by JR at Feb 13 2003, 07:28 AM

[Ironhorse]

Originally posted by JR@Feb 13 2003, 09:20 AM
history classes 100 years from now, will only show a record of current events as the "war of i dont care"... it will be a nothing more than a little red dot on a 20,000 year time line of people, religions, nations and cultures slaughtering each other... being tought to kids who are preoccupied with getting stoned, the party friday night, screwing a cheerleader, acne creams or worrying about who has the nicest wheels on their car.
I agree completely, but will the record be in arabic or english? :yowsa:

[JR]

Originally posted by Ironhorse+Feb 13 2003, 07:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ironhorse @ Feb 13 2003, 07:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JR@Feb 13 2003, 09:20 AM
history classes 100 years from now, will only show a record of current events as the "war of i dont care"... it will be a nothing more than a little red dot on a 20,000 year time line of people, religions, nations and cultures slaughtering each other... being tought to kids who are preoccupied with getting stoned, the party friday night, screwing a cheerleader, acne creams or worrying about who has the nicest wheels on their car.
I agree completely, but will the record be in arabic or english? :yowsa:[/b][/quote]
as always, it will be in the language of the victor.

[RawAlex]

JR: http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.htm...105&sid=1627978 (http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=1627978)


The most recent tape was actually listenable. The previous tape, November 12th, was of such poor quality as to suggest it was made with a hand held micro tape recorder held up to record someone 20 feet away. The current tape is MUCH better quality.

The pre 9/11 tapes of Bin Ladin were all quite good, basically home move quality stuff. The last video of him as a grey haired man was poorer quality, but still reasonable and the words intelligable. Since that video, everything has been very low quality stuff.

This most recent tape is MUCH better, clearer, and there is no debate to the words on it. Nobody is suggesting that Rush Limbaugh is making fake tapes, but why was it Colin Powell announcing a tape, rather than the usual Al Jazera deal?

I am not going to suggest that this tape was "created" to prove a point, but i think it is something that has been on file for a few weeks, and was pulled out only as needed to make points. It's ramadam(sp?) few crissake, a good muslim don't have time to be making threats... it's a holy time of the year. I would have expected something like this maybe another week or two from now... as we get nearer the new moon.

Alex

[JR]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 13 2003, 07:57 AM
JR: http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.htm...105&sid=1627978 (http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=1627978)


The most recent tape was actually listenable. The previous tape, November 12th, was of such poor quality as to suggest it was made with a hand held micro tape recorder held up to record someone 20 feet away. The current tape is MUCH better quality.

The pre 9/11 tapes of Bin Ladin were all quite good, basically home move quality stuff. The last video of him as a grey haired man was poorer quality, but still reasonable and the words intelligable. Since that video, everything has been very low quality stuff.

This most recent tape is MUCH better, clearer, and there is no debate to the words on it. Nobody is suggesting that Rush Limbaugh is making fake tapes, but why was it Colin Powell announcing a tape, rather than the usual Al Jazera deal?

I am not going to suggest that this tape was "created" to prove a point, but i think it is something that has been on file for a few weeks, and was pulled out only as needed to make points. It's ramadam(sp?) few crissake, a good muslim don't have time to be making threats... it's a holy time of the year. I would have expected something like this maybe another week or two from now... as we get nearer the new moon.

Alex
so the basis of your argument is that this tape is better than a previous tape?

there were two audio tapes and one is better than the other?

why did Powell announce it? why did Al Jazeera deny it at first, then say they had it? I imagine Powell announced it because the timing was politically good.

Ramadan is in October by the way

[JR]

and what the heck is "swissinfo.org"

there is better information on Jihadis and the people that love them at www.greenland-village-whalers.org

its right between the articles "1001 ways to dry a fish" and "techniques for fighting off sea gulls while scavenging the beach for food"



Last edited by JR at Feb 13 2003, 08:19 AM

[RawAlex]

JR, I pulled the link off the front of Drudge. Take it for what it is worth, 5.9 million people will see it today.

sorry, not ramadam, it is that hadj(sp)? High holy time... pilgramage to mecca, etc.

it isn't a big time to get people worked up, they are too busy. 2 weeks from now would have been much better.

Just weird, that's all I am saying.

Alex

[Almighty Colin]

I don't think it matters whether the quality of the tape changed and I don't think we can learn much from it. One can intentionally change such things for effect by causing second guessing, conspiracy theories, and increased media exposure of the MYSTERY.

Why an audio tape rather than video? To throw everyone off, because he had plastic surgery, because he is missing an arm. Who knows?

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 13 2003, 10:57 AM
I am not going to suggest that this tape was "created" to prove a point, but i think it is something that has been on file for a few weeks, and was pulled out only as needed to make points. It's ramadam(sp?) few crissake, a good muslim don't have time to be making threats... it's a holy time of the year. I would have expected something like this maybe another week or two from now... as we get nearer the new moon.

Alex
Maybe I'm still tired from my recent trip and still hallucinating after snorting too much NO-DOZ but it sounds like just the opposite, that you ARE suggesting it.

Oh, shit, You're a conspiracist, Alex! I should have known.

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Colin@Feb 13 2003, 01:08 PM
increased media exposure of the MYSTERY
7 years ago Bin Laden was maybe a 10-20 sec. news flash - today the world listens and analysis every word he speaks... his name is branded all over the world and he is a hero in most arabic/muslim countries.

I wonder how big he will be in 7 years (2010), if he can keep the mystery alive...

[Mike AI]

I read somewhere that Bin Laden was saying he was goinng to be a martyr this year... I think this may be a sign that he is in failing health, and would like to go out in some kind of large action, to try and increase his stature.

Or that he is dead already, and al quada knows they cannot keep chirade on forever, so they will stage something and then issue a statement that he died in the attack or something.

[JR]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 13 2003, 03:52 PM
I read somewhere that Bin Laden was saying he was goinng to be a martyr this year... I think this may be a sign that he is in failing health, and would like to go out in some kind of large action, to try and increase his stature.

Or that he is dead already, and al quada knows they cannot keep chirade on forever, so they will stage something and then issue a statement that he died in the attack or something.
its a little unfair of him to be leading the "Holy War" and preach about fighting to the death and the duty of Muslims to do so... while hiding in a cave in the mountains watching people get decimated by laser guided missiles and AC-130 gun ships.

maybe his conscience is bothering him?