I-bill Down For The Count?

[Mike AI]

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=icpt&d=v1



http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030109/1624000702_1.html


Chief executive John W. Collins blamed the expected earnings shortfall on " poor performance in our merchant division, as well as weakness in our financial institutions division."

The company's iBill operations suffered a large loss of merchant customers after a new credit-card association rule took effect in mid-November, the CEO said.

A number of iBill's web merchants declined to pay a registration fee mandated by the new rule, resulting not only in reduced revenue from InterCept's portion of the registration fee but also lost transaction processing fees from the departed merchants, Mr. Collins said.


MORE

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030109/tech_interc..._outlook_2.html (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030109/tech_intercept_outlook_2.html)


InterCept Chairman and Chief Executive John Collins blamed the shortfall on the poor performance of the company's merchant, or credit card processing, division mostly due to a large loss of merchant customers in its iBill operations following the implementation of a new credit card association rule in mid-November.

[sextoyking]

Mike,

just read those posts.

not good news for ibill.

what do you think is gonna happen??

[Rolo]

Don´t think IBill will go anywhere, however there might be some changes in their operation size (which I actual think will be good - imho. they have lost the dynamic of the adult processing, when they got big in mainstream)...

Looking at their processing from mid December and the first few days of January it was not good, however the last few days have been good, so maybe they have gotten their act together. IBill have always have less "country" based scrubbing, than any of the other big processors, dunno if that could have caused some major chargeback fines from visa - anyhow they still accept cc from most countries in the world :okthumb:
They also lost alot of small clients because of the visa fees and technical issues (people getting paid late etc.). But as I said then it looks like they have gotten the technical issued solved :D

ARS, and Maxcash still uses them, and I don´t think they would be processing with them, if they thought IBill was going bust.

[Rolo]

Here are some more links regarding the situation:

http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadli...43001.26808.htm (http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/prn/atth020.P1.01092003143001.26808.htm)

http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadli...NLINE000702.htm (http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/djh/200301091624DOWJONESDJONLINE000702.htm)

[iBill-Cathy]

Just so things don't get out of control here. We missed our 4Q 2002 projections. iBill is profitable, is growing, and plans to remain in this business. Cathy

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by iBill-Cathy@Jan 10 2003, 10:10 AM
and plans to remain in this business. Cathy
so does Worldcom
;-)))

[Rolo]

iBill-Cathy - since you are here.... will IBill add other payment solutions like national/bank debit cards, european online checks, e-cash, giro, sms etc.
The news say that much of the blame for this situation is because of visa´s new rules - getting a bigger % of none visa/mc transactions would probably put IBill in a stronger position next time visa will make new rules :okthumb:

[Vick]

Few thoughts

If companies that are processing significant amounts through Ibill were to suddenly cease processing with Ibill it could cause such a change in the revenue stream and revenue structure of Ibill that drastic results may occur (think downsizing/closing) and result in huge amounts of lost revenue FOR ALL PARTIES!

What % of clients do you speculate Ibill actually lost of the Visa fees and of the clients Ibill lost how many we actually worth having?
Am thinking Ibill mostly lost some mom and pops ........
Don't know why that loss is being blamed in the articles, or maybe it is more than I'm speculating

If a company had any reasonable amount of rebills tied up with Ibill they paid their fee regardless or lose the rebill revenue
I haven't activity processed with Ibill in almost a year and haven't used Ibill as a primary processing solution for almost 2 years but still paid the fees rather than lose the rebilling income - was an easy (but distasteful) decision

Am I still concerned about the solvency of Ibill? Yes, for various reasons

[Mike AI]

Vick I do not have much faith in IBill.... the rats are already jumping off ship.

I personally do not send any business there way, nor do I send any traffic to any program that used them in a rev share program.

Can they turn it around liek Epoch did? Maybe, but I doubt it. Epoch had a lot of personal interest in making sure they made it... where as IBill is a small part of some large publicly traded company.

[wethoney]

Maybe....I"m behind schedule here but I thought people were jumping the IBILL ship like the titantic. :matey:

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 10 2003, 06:28 PM
Vick I do not have much faith in IBill.... the rats are already jumping off ship.

I personally do not send any business there way, nor do I send any traffic to any program that used them in a rev share program.

Can they turn it around liek Epoch did? Maybe, but I doubt it. Epoch had a lot of personal interest in making sure they made it... where as IBill is a small part of some large publicly traded company.
ICPT is not all that large really. I've seen their operations here in Atlanta, they're tiny compared to say a S1 or CKFR. They specializing in dealing with small regional banks for outsourcing stuff like check imaging (view your cancelled check online, etc).

[Vick]

Please understand I am in no way defending Ibill or saying they are a viable 3rd party processing option
In fact I have more disdain for them than most

But what is not adding up to me in the articles posted here is ICPT blaming Ibill for "The company's iBill operations suffered a large loss of merchant customers after a new credit-card association rule took effect in mid-November, the CEO said."

How much business did they really lose over just the Visa fees?
Some mom and Pop operations?
Did Ibill lose more business over the way they handled the Visa registration?
Is Ibill a partial scapegoat for ICPT overall poor performance?

The trick with Ibill now is if you still have operations with them to leave in an orderly fashion, if everyone pulled out from Ibill at once they may collapse and no one gets paid .... and that is what is looks like is going on, some seem to be leaving in an orderly fashion

I don't think Ibill can turn it's self around, they lost touch with their client base years ago and have serious data management, personnel, support and image issues that they have not taken steps to overcome
5 years ago Ibill was a good 3rd party billing solution, Ibill stopped being an acceptable primary 3rd party billing solution about 2.5 years ago - today, they scare me

[cj]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 10 2003, 06:28 PM
Can they turn it around liek Epoch did? Maybe, but I doubt it. Epoch had a lot of personal interest in making sure they made it... where as IBill is a small part of some large publicly traded company.
Mike, you obviously weren't one of the people who got fucked over by epoch when they mysteriously weren't able to pay people due to their own bad management of a situation. or one of the 100's of webmasters who went out of business due to not being paid the money they had rightfully earned. They may have turned it around, but it was at the expense of a lot of others who went out of business so they could eventually return. I am still struggling to trust them ... but clay is impressive, i'll give them that ;-)

lets not forget that when we are here trashing ibill and comparing them to the now seemingly perfect epoch ... ibill has only ever missed 1 payment to me in 4 years, i keep wanting to leave but i just can't find anyone better and NOTHING has happened (yet) that has encouraged me to leave there for long. every 3rd party processor on the market right now has the potential to fall over tomorrow ... my bet for who goes first isn't ibill, but i wouldn't be surprised by any outcome right now ...

Few thoughts
What % of clients do you speculate Ibill actually lost of the Visa fees and of the clients Ibill lost how many we actually worth having?
Am thinking Ibill mostly lost some mom and pops ........
Don't know why that loss is being blamed in the articles, or maybe it is more than I'm speculating


Trying to present information to a stock market and shareholders about a company that processes porn transactions ... LOL ... the 'media relations person' who has nothing to do with the running of ibill, and doesn't even know what a web site is, presented it in a way the public can understand. you are all in the industry, you know things about this company that the shareholders don't, both good and bad ... just because its too hard to explain to the ma & pa shareholders. ignore the media spin and do your research at the main source of revenue, the adult industry ...

Speaking to people about this situation, the 2 most common reasons for not paying the fee to register were 'cant afford it' or 'fuck registering a business, too hard, i'm going to globill'

Vick, I believe that most of the business that was lost was not significant, and with the recent losses of merchant accounts all round with some of the 'big guys', look at how many of the major traffic companies are back using ibill in the last 2 - 3 months ...

I'd say they lost less than 10% of their business over the registration, and i know the potential percentage of the companies that *have* switched back, is significantly larger than 10%

ibill's biggest problem right now is epoch, who are snagging the big companies with good hooks ...

If a company had any reasonable amount of rebills tied up with Ibill they paid their fee regardless or lose the rebill revenue
I haven't activity processed with Ibill in almost a year and haven't used Ibill as a primary processing solution for almost 2 years but still paid the fees rather than lose the rebilling income - was an easy (but distasteful) decision


Think about how many companies didn't bother ... 100's of companies with a few hundred in recurring each month ... nice extra revenue stream for ibill. think about the logic, these companies have only left ibill from 30 - 90 days ago ... rebills are still strong for the first month, good in 2nd ... they won't have lost *that* much money from that yet.


Am I still concerned about the solvency of Ibill? Yes, for various reasons


me too, but i'm just as concerned about the stability of every other 3rd party processor ... i've been hearing 'inside information' about ibill 'about to collapse' for years, if/when it happens, i'll press a button and switch to another processor.

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by cj@Jan 11 2003, 05:02 AM
i've been hearing 'inside information' about ibill 'about to collapse' for years, if/when it happens, i'll press a button and switch to another processor.
hey cj, i understand what you're saying
BUT if or when you'll have to press that magic button by that time it might be too late. What are you gonna do if ibill looses merchant accounts or accounts get frozen and you're unable to move the reccuring database ?





Has it been 2 years since the last major CC exodus ?
if one was to fallow those trends we're about due for another one...
I personally would hate to see ibill choke right now, i got too much tied to ibill these days.

[originalheather]

I don't think Ibill can turn it's self around, they lost touch with their client base years ago and have serious data management, personnel, support and image issues that they have not taken steps to overcome

No kidding. Not only don't I agree with their accounting methods, the DI has not worked properly in months, the CMI is constantly screwed up, their support sucks, they don't answer the phone in premium, they make promises they have zero intention of keeping and overall, they're headed down the drain.

They refuse to give me my recurring database, though they were more than happy to take mine when I joined them 3 years ago after WTSbank lost their merchant account. WTS at least gave me my database. Bob Cox allowed me to use it with Ibill, which saved my site at the time. Bob Cox is no longer with Ibill, their loss indeed. The current people really don't seem to care. The only time they paid attention was when I was chasing people out of their booth at the show. I wasn't about to see other people go through what I've been suffering with them since September.

I had to have a friend pull strings with them to get me the Visa info after my moronic sales rep kept giving me all the wrong answers to my questions. He never even glanced at my account before sending canned responses to my inquiries. I'm supposedly a premium account? Please...we're treated as badly as everyone else. My tech hasn't been paid since November. He declined the Visa processing, the took the money anyway and he hasn't seen a check since 11/1. I had to send him extra money so he could eat at Xmas.

I personally will speak my mind about Ibill anytime I see them post. They SUCK. :angry:

[Winetalk.com]

Heather,
ICPT shareholders fully agree with you...stock lost 75% in 2 days!

[President]

I don't care what any of you say, quit wishing them the death kiss!

They still have a bunch of recurring for a lot of us! :(

Long live Ibill :rokk:

[Mike AI]

CJ Epoch paid me all the money they owed me. I also do not know anyone else who has not been fulling paid what they were owed by Epoch.

I am not saying what Epoch did was good, infact it was terrible - something like what IBill is doing now. However, Epoch has rebounded to become a very solid processor, one that is DEFINATELY the most innovative processor going right now.

Can IBill bounce back like Epoch? Time will tell....

[Winetalk.com]

I saw ScottPB shaking Dan's (former Epoch shareholder) hand,
seems like even he was finally paid
;-)))

[President]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jan 11 2003, 04:15 PM
I saw ScottPB shaking Dan's (former Epoch shareholder) hand,

Serge, ScottPB was "shaking" A LOT of hands at the show :redance:

[slavdogg]

i didnt know ScottPB was in Vegas ? never got a chanse to meet him.
same with you President,

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by President+Jan 11 2003, 04:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (President @ Jan 11 2003, 04:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jan 11 2003, 04:15 PM
I saw ScottPB shaking Dan's (former Epoch shareholder) hand,

Serge, ScottPB was "shaking" A LOT of hands at the show :redance:[/b][/quote]
with bolt cutters???
;-)))

[*KK*]

Ah well if anyone can predict the future, stop selling porn and start sending out MsCleo2 emails ;)

It appears to be a mess over there, but then again, who really knows other than Garrett and a couple other true insiders?

[Rolo]

All the processors I have seen gone out of business have always been because they have lost their merchant account or gotten very heavy fines. Since the IBill problem seams to be a operation costs issue at first, then they can act and downsize (quick solution), or win back some business (probably not going to happen short term, but with the right business plan + they already got the name recognition, then they can expand just as fast as Epoch... if people in this business can smell money, then they easy forgive and forget :groucho: ).

We also got paid ALL money owed by Epoch, and today they are one of our main processsors! When companies/persons pull themself up from the gutter and even expand their business, then they get my respect :wnw:

Processing for adult sites is not an easy game - if it was, then we would all have our own merchant accounts...

[DAMNMAN]

Since Ibill's rep is here I'd like to ask one question.

How come Ibill, CCbill and Epoch are charging $250.00 additional to what VISA is charging for it's new fees?:grrr: :grrr:

I know that Card Services is only charging the $500.00 that VISA wants and not adding an aditional dealer premium. :barfon:



What's up with that?????? (Oh that's two questions now)

[Toolz]

Anyone listen to the complete conference call that Intercept had? I had it on in the background and picked out a few key points.

#1. CEO claims he doesn't know what % of Ibill is adult, later question is asked again and questioner asks if 90% of Ibill is adult, CEO says he doesn't know COO or whomever else was in the room says yes.

#2. Not sure what the reported purchase of Ibill was initially but in the conference call the CEO put it at 118 million

#3. One of the callers (I assume the callers are industry analysts but who knows) Says that since Intercept acquired Ibill and they lost their largest client purportedly in the beginning and then they screwed up again with the Visa regs thing why doesn't Intercept just right them off as a loss.

Entire call is here, warning it's over an hour but well worth the listen as 80% of it pertains to Ibill and will give you a better understanding of processing in general. BTW, EPX that they keep referring to was initially Ibill's processor but with the new Visa regs they had to switch it to offshore. EPX was owned by Intercept and they make reference to lost profits that they could have gained by getting the $750 registration fees from all the merchants processing under Ibill.

http://biz.yahoo.com/cc/3/25083.html

Oh and I know this is an old thread but I thought I dig it up cause I wasn't sure if anyone had bothered to listen to the whole conference call but me :)

[*KK*]

I thought IBill was with FDR group, moved to EPX due to the buyout and then went back to FDR group?

[Toolz]

Not sure, and I don't think I could stand to listen to that damn hour long conversation again :)

[Winetalk.com]

since ICPT bought Ibill,
the stock went down from 33 to 7.

I am looking for GE to buy Oprano,
so I can short the stock
;-)))

[Dianna Vesta]

CJ you had good luck with Ibill, this may be true but all have not. I signed up with IBill when they FIRST came one, back when they were still known as Logicom - solutions for BBS's. For a few years all was well and then too many unexplained things began to happen. Does it piss you off that on every signup they have a checked box asking people to donate money- you can barely see it. I have a real problem with this kind of shit especially when I don't get answers.

I had the problem with CCbill upsell their HornyBees to my signups and cancels and countless other things I find out.

They all suck or can't control the sucky people that work for them. My advice is to watch your stats closely and always run test signups.

The chick with Ibill.... I don't know who she is but over half the people that are there now are new trying to pick up all the broken pieces. That's a fact and there are plently of ex-Ibill staff down here in Florida who will gladly speak about the crap at Ibill. Ibill is a dead dog who will keep down sizing until they figure out how to re-do their business model. Like a race horse they are quick when the gate opens but slow the finish. They were a little late in releasing programs to help their webmasters.

So far my solution is to use Jettis and my own merchant accounts. I'll focus on offering good customer service & try and keep my charge backs down. The truth is that when we did use our own merchant accounts in the past we had fewer.

My two cents.

DV