What Time Is Fiesta Bowl?

[Mutt]

yeah i know i can go look it up in the TV listing or ESPN.com but since i'm here i thought i'd ask :gbounce:

i will root for Ohio State, too hard to root for Miami, student athletes my ass.

[Almighty Colin]

Friday. 8 pm ET.

Mutt,

I think there's a perception that Miami just goes out and finds all these really fast and amazingly talented players and that's all there is to it. Miami had probably the best training program in the country. The program is known for increasing the speed and size of their players quite dramatically while they are there. Jeremy Shockey, an ex Cane now playing for the Giants said that the Hurricanes players work a lot harder than players on NFL teams do. One week after winning the National Championship last year, players were out practicing together for the next season. Fact is, Miami players work harder than anyone else - on the gym, on the field, and in the film room - and that is a good part of the reason why they have won 25% of all the championships in the last 20 years and played for a few others. Consider that every year Miami's recruiting class is ranked about #10 in the nation talent-wise. How do they go from #10 in talent to #1? #1 by the standard of national championships and players sent to the NFL. There's a lot of hard work between start and finish.

A recent interview with Miami Linebacker Jonathan Vilma asked him what his opinion of paying college football players is (a hot debate right now). He said that college football players already received pay in the form of a college education and not having to pay back loans after school. Pay for college players? "That's what the NFL is for" he said.

Miami's graduation rate for football players is above the national average - that despite the fact that they have sent more players into the NFL than any other team in college the past 2 decades - many of them having left school early.

It's a shame that once a team in any sport attains amazing success that people start to find reasons for why they don't deserve it. One does not win 34 games in a row )!) without deserving it. Lots of hard work to attain that streak.



Last edited by Colin at Jan 1 2003, 08:22 AM

[Mutt]

i didn't say they weren't amazing, nor that they don't work hard.

the perception IS that they are nothing but a football factory who recruit great athletes without regard to their academic abilities or character.
I don't follow college football very closely so I get this from reading and listening, every time Miami is mentioned always comes with the innuendo that the program is tainted.

As for graduation rates, kinda meaningless unless you know they are taking legitimate courses, how many hours they put in in class, their exams and papers are marked by the same standards regular students are,
........ not saying i know for a fact Miami is a dirty program but that's the way the national sports media paints them.

their record is amazing, can't take that away, but is the playing field even, that is the question.

NCAA athletic programs are like a snowball rolling downhill gathering steam, once a school gets very good, it becomes easier and easier to recruit the best players because kids wanna go with a winner and get on TV alot. So that does explain alot of their continued success. But why all the shots taken at them then? Why does the media have it in for Miami if you are saying they are as clean as anybody else? You don't get the innuendo when people write or talk about Duke basketball?

NCAA athletes from ghettos and very poor families do deserve money, some kind of stipend, not that much but it's not enough just to provide them a room, textbooks and meals. It's not fair to put a kid on a college campus without enough money to get a pizza and beer, and enough money for a couple lapdances at the titty bar if you're not going to allow him to have a part time job to earn his own money. The money those players produce for the schools is huge - nothing wrong with giving a poor kid $75-100 a week. It's silly, Canadian kids who play junior hockey, which is to the NHL what NCAA is to the NFL, those kids get a voucher for a college education for after their junior careers are over at 19 or 20 plus they get a small amount of money for what I'm talking about.



Last edited by Mutt at Jan 1 2003, 07:47 AM

[Almighty Colin]

Mutt,

Lots of people hate the Dallas Cowboys.
Lots of people hate the New York Yankees.
Lots of people hate the Miami Hurricanes.

It's all the same thing. Win a substantial portion of the championships and this attitude tends to arise.

Most reporting on the Hurricanes is that they used to be a team with a thug-attitude, NOT that they have one now. This is a typical article one finds:

(note the comments by Coker which are exactly what you were referring to).

------------

MULKEYTOWN, Ill. (BP)--Seeing the Miami Hurricanes perched atop the college football rankings again this season is about as exhilarating as the stomach flu. It makes me sick.

I’ve never been a Miami fan. In fact, for most of my life, the Hurricanes have been at or near the top of my “most hated sports teams” list.

My dislike of the Hurricanes was always grounded in the fact that the players were some of the biggest thugs in sports –- guys like Michael Irvin who were hot shots on the field and criminals off it. Then there’s Warren Sapp, who, although not a criminal as far as I know, is still a loudmouth. The list could go on and on.

But those were the Miami Hurricanes of the past. Second-year coach Larry Coker is doing his best to clean up a program that for years had one of the worst reputations around. Coker won a national title in his inaugural season last year, and his Hurricanes seemed poised to repeat as champs.

“I feel blessed just to be a head coach, because it’s pretty hard,” Coker said in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes’ Sharing the Victory magazine. “There are not many jobs out there and to get one is an act of God for me. To have it at a place like Miami, where you have the vehicle to have success, is pretty special. Then, on top of that, to bring it all to fruition, to play well and win a national championship, it’s just been a magical year.”

But championships aren’t the most important thing to Coker. He’s more concerned with restoring integrity to a football program that desperately needed it.

“One thing we really stressed was character,” Coker told Sharing the Victory. “We had to find out about the players, not just their grades or their ability to play the game or the times they ran. We also had to talk with their coaches, talk with their parents, get in their homes, talk with their ministers, find out what type of people they are. From that standpoint, if they’re very similar in ability -- you have to have ability, let’s don’t downplay that -- then we’re going to feel strongly for that player with character.”

Coker’s quest for a second national title won’t be easy. In addition to being a bunch of hoodlums in years past, the Hurricanes also had a bad habit of playing weak teams to pad their record. Not so this year.

Miami will face Florida, Florida State, Tennessee, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Virginia Tech this year -- all formidable opponents. If they make it through that schedule unscathed, the Hurricanes will definitely be deserving of championship accolades.

It will still be hard for me to pull for Miami, though. I guess old habits are hard to abandon. But I respect Coker and don’t begrudge him any of his success -- past or future. The changes he’s making to Miami’s program are admirable.
--30--
Tim Ellsworth writes this column from his home in Mulkeytown, Ill. Write to him at bpsports@sbc.net.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Mutt@Jan 1 2003, 08:46 AM
is the playing field even, that is the question.


Of course not. The playing field is NOT even in college football. The best programs get the best players.

Rutgers does not have the same recruiting ability as the University of Miami.
Mississippi St. cannot get the players Alabama does.

This is not a mystery. This is not the NFL. No parity rules in effect. You build a great program with great coaches and get the best players you can. Everyone has the same opportunity but for the most part only the Nebraska's, Oklahoma's, Florida State's, and Miami's will be playing for the National Championship. South Carolina will not. Vanderbilt willl not.

Like I said, Miami usually has about the tenth best recruiting class. Not the best. Somewhere between that tenth best recruiting class and NFL draft day, those players turn into the best class.



Last edited by Colin at Jan 1 2003, 10:04 AM

[voodooman]

Mutt,

Take OSU and the points for a dime.



:okthumb:

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by voodooman@Jan 1 2003, 10:03 AM
Mutt,

Take OSU and the points for a dime.



:okthumb:
I would bet OSU to cover also. Is the spread still 14?

The original spread was only 10.5 I think.

[voodooman]

12.5 colin.

I would still take it.

Go ahead and parlay it for the under. 50.5

Oklahoma is a 6 point fav, this hurts me,
but I would take Wash St. and the points.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by voodooman@Jan 1 2003, 10:22 AM
12.5 colin.

I would still take it.

Go ahead and parlay it for the under. 50.5

Oklahoma is a 6 point fav, this hurts me,
but I would take Wash St. and the points.
Yeah, I like the under 50 also. I wouldn't EVER bet on or against my favorite team in any sport.

Too easy to get stupid.

[voodooman]

Originally posted by Colin+Jan 1 2003, 10:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Jan 1 2003, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--voodooman@Jan 1 2003, 10:22 AM
12.5 colin.

I would still take it.

Go ahead and parlay it for the under. 50.5

Oklahoma is a 6 point fav, this hurts me,
but I would take Wash St. and the points.
Yeah, I like the under 50 also. I wouldn't EVER bet on or against my favorite team in any sport.

Too easy to get stupid.[/b][/quote]
I wouldnt bet on my fav team period, even if it was a lock.

I just know that Wash St is going to be passing in the
middle, and anyone that knows OU Defense, they cant
defend against it.

[Mutt]

I won't bet this, i haven't watched any college football games, this will be the first of the year.

Yeah Colin great dynasties in sports often become hated just because it's annoying, but usually there is another reason behind it. The Yankees are hated because they have more money to spend. Dallas was hated because they were cocky and had some thugs. There's usually other baggage when great teams are despised. The 49ers were never hated like Dallas. Duke basketball isn't hated like Miami football.

When i said an even playing field, of course I didn't mean an even playing field for everybody. I meant an even playing field for the football powerhouse schools. That's one of the reasons i don't follow college football, so many complete mismatches during the regular season, pointless games. NFL parity is great.

No doubt that they are a great program, if they can take the 10th best recruiting class and perenially be #1.

Do u bet online Voodoo?

[voodooman]

Mutt,

http://www.mysportsbook.com/

Been around since '97'.

I used to pay oddsmakers money for their pics,
and soon found out, I was wasting my time and
money. I can do my own research and pick as well
or better than most people like Sam Weiss, who
will give you 3 games with one lock for 500 bucks.
You have to bet a bundle to cover your handicapper
and juice, because never have they got all 3 games
correct.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Mutt@Jan 1 2003, 10:49 AM
I won't bet this, i haven't watched any college football games, this will be the first of the year.

Yeah Colin great dynasties in sports often become hated just because it's annoying, but usually there is another reason behind it. The Yankees are hated because they have more money to spend. Dallas was hated because they were cocky and had some thugs. There's usually other baggage when great teams are despised. The 49ers were never hated like Dallas. Duke basketball isn't hated like Miami football.

When i said an even playing field, of course I didn't mean an even playing field for everybody. I meant an even playing field for the football powerhouse schools. That's one of the reasons i don't follow college football, so many complete mismatches during the regular season, pointless games. NFL parity is great.

No doubt that they are a great program, if they can take the 10th best recruiting class and perenially be #1.

Do u bet online Voodoo?
As far as Duke - and this is sort of a side-comment - Yes, academically Duke is a top-tier school. U.S. News often has Duke ranked in the top 20 of schools; sometimes top 10. A Duke athlete still has to pass their classes there and Duke is a much better school than UM academically. One might say the same about Stanford.

The chances of a top school having an excellent football program are pretty low. Maybe Washington or Notre Dame might be the best combination. But academically, I would think Oklahoma, Nebraska, Miami, Florida State, Florida - schools like this are very similar as far as academic standards.

[Almighty Colin]

Mutt,

What do you think of OSU star freshman Maurice Clarett who said "I never had that much affection for Ohio State. I came to Ohio State to get an education and to play football, and that's it." ?

Do they want that kid's attitude representing their school? No, but he's a damned good player.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Colin@Jan 1 2003, 09:55 AM
Mutt,

Lots of people hate the Dallas Cowboys.
Lots of people hate the New York Yankees.
Lots of people hate the Miami Hurricanes.

It's all the same thing. Win a substantial portion of the championships and this attitude tends to arise.

Most reporting on the Hurricanes is that they used to be a team with a thug-attitude, NOT that they have one now. This is a typical article one finds:

(note the comments by Coker which are exactly what you were referring to).

------------

MULKEYTOWN, Ill. (BP)--Seeing the Miami Hurricanes perched atop the college football rankings again this season is about as exhilarating as the stomach flu. It makes me sick.

I’ve never been a Miami fan. In fact, for most of my life, the Hurricanes have been at or near the top of my “most hated sports teams” list.

My dislike of the Hurricanes was always grounded in the fact that the players were some of the biggest thugs in sports –- guys like Michael Irvin who were hot shots on the field and criminals off it. Then there’s Warren Sapp, who, although not a criminal as far as I know, is still a loudmouth. The list could go on and on.

But those were the Miami Hurricanes of the past. Second-year coach Larry Coker is doing his best to clean up a program that for years had one of the worst reputations around. Coker won a national title in his inaugural season last year, and his Hurricanes seemed poised to repeat as champs.

“I feel blessed just to be a head coach, because it’s pretty hard,” Coker said in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes’ Sharing the Victory magazine. “There are not many jobs out there and to get one is an act of God for me. To have it at a place like Miami, where you have the vehicle to have success, is pretty special. Then, on top of that, to bring it all to fruition, to play well and win a national championship, it’s just been a magical year.”

But championships aren’t the most important thing to Coker. He’s more concerned with restoring integrity to a football program that desperately needed it.

“One thing we really stressed was character,” Coker told Sharing the Victory. “We had to find out about the players, not just their grades or their ability to play the game or the times they ran. We also had to talk with their coaches, talk with their parents, get in their homes, talk with their ministers, find out what type of people they are. From that standpoint, if they’re very similar in ability -- you have to have ability, let’s don’t downplay that -- then we’re going to feel strongly for that player with character.”

Coker’s quest for a second national title won’t be easy. In addition to being a bunch of hoodlums in years past, the Hurricanes also had a bad habit of playing weak teams to pad their record. Not so this year.

Miami will face Florida, Florida State, Tennessee, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Virginia Tech this year -- all formidable opponents. If they make it through that schedule unscathed, the Hurricanes will definitely be deserving of championship accolades.

It will still be hard for me to pull for Miami, though. I guess old habits are hard to abandon. But I respect Coker and don’t begrudge him any of his success -- past or future. The changes he’s making to Miami’s program are admirable.
--30--
Tim Ellsworth writes this column from his home in Mulkeytown, Ill. Write to him at bpsports@sbc.net.
Article is dead on if you ask me. That doesn't happen to places like Duke and North Carolina in basketball because the players and their coaches always won with grace and class. It's not the winning a program does that causes people to hate them, it's how they act in the process that does it.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Colin@Jan 1 2003, 12:58 PM
Mutt,

What do you think of OSU star freshman Maurice Clarett who said "I never had that much affection for Ohio State. I came to Ohio State to get an education and to play football, and that's it." ?

Do they want that kid's attitude representing their school? No, but he's a damned good player.
No, and I wouldn't want a player like that to play for my college team.

[Almighty Colin]

I'd want Maurice Clarett on my team. I'm not at all an Ohio State fan but that guy is a tremendous player. I'd rather win games and championships than moral victories and ethics awards.

[Almighty Colin]

I retract my earlier statement. Miami does have an unfair recruiting advantage. South Beach.

[T-Rav]

Originally posted by voodooman@Jan 1 2003, 10:22 AM
12.5 colin.

I would still take it.

Go ahead and parlay it for the under. 50.5

Oklahoma is a 6 point fav, this hurts me,
but I would take Wash St. and the points.
voodooman,

it looks like you woulda lost your bet. how 'bout them Sooners? They played out of their minds. And kudos to Hybl for getting MVP honors.

I like and respect Miami's team. This also hurts me to say, because they robbed OU of a couple of Nat'l titles over the years. People hate Miami for the same reason people hate the Sooners. Most people hate to see teams winning and winning and winning. The underdog syndrome, I think it lives in all of us ;))

[voodooman]

T-Rav,

Nice to see ya again.

Your right, I would have lost, but with joy. :awinky:
OU did play pretty well, they had me worried a time
or two though. Although we was penalized 2wice for
illegal blocking on special teams, at least they didnt
catch the 3rd. :)
Still gotta ask yourself, WHAT IF!!!!

Oh well, there is a Rose Bowl championship in the Switzer
Room now, and with 8 returning starters next year, Im
going to go ahead and bet on OU to win the Nat. Championship.
:okthumb: :okthumb:

[dantheman]

Originally posted by voodooman@Jan 2 2003, 02:02 PM
T-Rav,

Nice to see ya again.

Your right, I would have lost, but with joy. :awinky:
OU did play pretty well, they had me worried a time
or two though. Although we was penalized 2wice for
illegal blocking on special teams, at least they didnt
catch the 3rd. :)
Still gotta ask yourself, WHAT IF!!!!

Oh well, there is a Rose Bowl championship in the Switzer
Room now, and with 8 returning starters next year, Im
going to go ahead and bet on OU to win the Nat. Championship.
:okthumb: :okthumb:
They gota come though here first:)

[voodooman]

Hmm, ok, I didnt want to, but you leave me no choice Dan.

Did you watch the Rose bowl last night?

If so, you seen how your Bama team will be playing (wash st)
because Im sure as a bama fan, you know that Price, from wash
st. is now the head coach of bama.

Ok, I think I have drawn a pretty vivid picture for you.

Enjoy!!!


:D

[dantheman]

there's a couple of differences with bama and wast st.
I'll be glad to point them out to ya:)

1. its bama
2. top 5 defence in the nation
3.RUNNING GAME (we have it wash st doesnt)
3.its bama
4.QB with a cannon (just what price likes:)
5.its bama

will be fun :rokk:

[voodooman]

We will def have to wait and see, but as you very well know, OU's defense doenst allow the run.
Plus, Price mentioned last night he will be running the same plays as he has been in Wash St.

In anycase,
Will be a very interesting year, and I cant wait for it.

[dantheman]

Originally posted by voodooman@Jan 2 2003, 03:22 PM
Price mentioned last night he will be running the same plays as he has been in Wash St.

In anycase,
Will be a very interesting year, and I cant wait for it.
He might be, and it might work out great I really hope so. Wash st doesnt get the same caliber of players that bama has. Thats the main reason wash st only has 3 10 win seasons and bama as had 12 national champinships.
We get our share of bluechip prospects. now its up to Price to make them champions :rokk:

T-rav is coming down in sept for the game, you should plan to make it down also.

T-Town is going to :rokk:

[voodooman]

Im sorry Dan,

I would NEVER say this if OU didnt win last night, or if I thought
you didnt have a sense of humor, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

What bowl game was bama in this year???

hahaha
:nyanya: :nyanya:

BTW, Thanks for the invite, I think it will be a great time.
Sept is a long ways away though, remind me again. :D

[dantheman]

OUCH :cryin:

I'll remind you:)

[ulfie]

You guys are all pretenders. Pitt is going to win the NCAA championship in hoops this season then follow it up in football next year. :P

[dantheman]

quick, somebody slap ulfie and wake him up :biglaugh:



Last edited by dantheman at Jan 2 2003, 04:19 PM

[T-Rav]

voodooman, on something like that you just have to commit to going. September is a long time from now, but if you commit ahead of time it becomes much tougher to make excuses when the time comes. The OU/Bama game should be a fun game.

Also, I believe we have 10 starters returning on Defense, that is just plain scary. As well as 8 starters returning on offense.

ulfie, OU will win the basketball championship and follow it up with a football championship. OU was ESPN's #1 pick to win the basketball championship this year. We blew it in '87 when OU was in the National Championship for Basketball and Football in the same year. We won't let that happen this year :))

[voodooman]

Originally posted by ulfie@Jan 2 2003, 04:03 PM
You guys are all pretenders. Pitt is going to win the NCAA championship in hoops this season then follow it up in football next year. :P
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Now THATS the funniest thing I have heard all year.

:D

[ulfie]

1. Duke
2. Pittsburgh
3. Alabama
4. Arizona
5. Conneticut

Not dreaming on the hoops part, probably am on the football part though. Pitt's basketball team is awesome this year. I'm not a big fan but I have watched a few of their games this year and their defense is incredible plus everyone can score. Long season, we will see. ;)

[dantheman]

yeah its going to be a fun year for sure, polls dont mean shit this time of the year, but it was cool for bama to gets its first ever number 1 ranking last week.
Just hope we can climb back up there in march :rokk:

[voodooman]

Originally posted by ulfie@Jan 2 2003, 04:24 PM
I'm not a big fan but I have watched a few of their games this year and their defense is incredibly bad plus everyone can score on them. Long season, we will see. ;)
:nyanya:

Can you spot why Im laughing this time?

:D

[ulfie]

Gay men giggle, they don't laugh. :)

[voodooman]

Originally posted by ulfie@Jan 2 2003, 04:34 PM
Gay men giggle, they don't laugh. :)
Ohh you got me JR, errr Serge, errr Ulfie.


:P

[ulfie]

Don't lump me with them, I'm not in on the vast conspiracy against dig. hahaha

[voodooman]

Ulfie,

YET!!!!

There is hope for everyone.

:P

[voodooman]

I hope everyone followed my advice for the Fiesta Bowl and bet
their life savings on Ohio State and the points.

I love it when Im right.

:D :okthumb: :D :okthumb: :D