View Full Version : Department Of Homeland Security
Just to shift gears, I heard yesterday in the Times that they did pass the department in the Senate, or they're expected to, or some such thing. Bush shat in the face of unions (not that I'm terribly fond of them myself) for hiring in this department, but the Dems got a token oversight board for union complaints.
So now that we're finally getting this department, what does everyone think? Expanded powers of law enforcement, with Ashcroft and his civil-rights-trampling cronies at the helm. I'm not being partisan at all, I'm wondering if this department will actually do some good, and whether it WILL (and yes I believe it will) have adverse affects on industries and types of businesses the current administration does not like.
How soon before the terrorist threat has subsided and suddenly child porn or obscenity is a threat to our 'homeland security' ?
C.
"The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter, they are an entire banquet."
sextoyking
11-13-2002, 01:57 PM
Vick,
that's a Perl!!!
Thanks Todd - but I can't take credit for it
It's Mark Twain
EricP
11-13-2002, 03:36 PM
Just another place to funnel money that will 'disappear'.
And of course no one will know where it went.
:blink:
Last edited by EricP at Nov 13 2002, 03:44 PM
T-Rav
11-13-2002, 03:41 PM
Good one Vick...
I hate the idea of Homeland Security. That is all I am going to say.
RawAlex
11-13-2002, 03:59 PM
Just what the US needs: Another super police force that won't cooperate with any other of the super police forces.
Only this time, we get one that the Attn General can meddle with directly.
JOY!
:moon:
Winetalk.com
11-13-2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by RawAlex@Nov 13 2002, 04:07 PM
Just what the US needs: Another super police force that won't cooperate with any other of the super police forces.
Only this time, we get one that the Attn General can meddle with directly.
JOY!
:moon:
RawAlex, don't worry, the prevailing attitude among americans is
Fuck stupid canadiens
you are safe!
;-)
Mike AI
11-13-2002, 05:01 PM
I do not think homeland security is going to have any new police forces, it is just taking agencies spread out over 5-6 different departments and bring them under 1 Cabinet Level posistion.
Cal, you should are paranoid, I do not think after the terrorist threat is gone ( will it ever be gone?), that they will turn it to go after liberals, pornographers, homosexuals, etc....
T-Rav
11-13-2002, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 13 2002, 05:09 PM
I do not think homeland security is going to have any new police forces, it is just taking agencies spread out over 5-6 different departments and bring them under 1 Cabinet Level posistion.
Cal, you should are paranoid, I do not think after the terrorist threat is gone ( will it ever be gone?), that they will turn it to go after liberals, pornographers, homosexuals, etc....
Yes, the terrorist threat is gone.
Why do we need a NEW agency to spy on the citizens?
Of course if we plan on a good old fashion witch hunt, like the McCarthy era...maybe we need Homeland Security to make the case against whoever it is we are going to persecute.
It has happened before, and it can happen again. Just because you look at that possibility and fight against it does not make you paranoid.
Mike,
Everyone is talking about Ashcroft gearing up for a new round of obscenity legislation, and even conservatives agree he has gone too far with TIPS and others (many of which he was forced to repeal under intense scrutiny.) I thought most of the conservatives on this board were in favor of personal autonomy, but you don't mind this 'shadow government' type office that answers only to the president?
Don't get me wrong I am actually quite strongly in favor of the military, but I want it to be used for the good of everyone. That includes policing our borders, maybe I'm naive but the whole not wanting to use military on our own soil (opting for law enforcement, not sure the name of that particular Act) doesn't strike me as all that important. Israel and many other countries use military troops on their own soil for security purposes.
I sure hope that system of checks and balances we all agree is there works in this case!
C.
Paranoia self destroyer. :rokk:
Winetalk.com
11-13-2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by T-Rav@Nov 13 2002, 05:26 PM
Yes, the terrorist threat is gone.
Why don't you tell that to the relatives of 250 australians perished in Bali?
if you sell it to them,
I'll buy it too...
Originally posted by wig@Nov 13 2002, 02:36 PM
Paranoia self destroyer. :rokk:
I heard the Muleskinner lobby was big in this homeland security department. I bet you're trying to still all those HONEST *cough* union jobs from our hardworking Americans!
The liberals will eat you alive.
:grrr:
C.
Mike AI
11-13-2002, 06:01 PM
Everyone is talking about Ashcroft gearing up for a new round of obscenity legislation, and even conservatives agree he has gone too far with TIPS and others (many of which he was forced to repeal under intense scrutiny.)
Everyone? I have not read anything new about obscenity issues in a long time. I try to keep up with all of this. Can you show me the articles that is is talked about? Or maybe some sample legislation, a bill going through congress?
This is mere speculation - trying to scare people and demonize Ashcroft and hence the Bush administration.
quote from xxxlaw.net:
Updated October 25, 2002: Attorney General Ashcroft Gearing Up Justice Department for Prosecution of Adult Obscenity, Including Internet sites. The Justice Department convened a National Obscenity Law Enforcement Conference at a DOJ facility, the National Advocacy Center in Columbia, South Carolina, on June 6-7, 2002, to map a policy and guidelines for the prosecution of materials, including online materials, described as "obscene". On May 7, Mr. Ashcroft transmitted an invitation to all 94 US Attorneys under his own signature, stating, "[T]he proliferation of obscenity, both via the Internet as well as through more traditional channels, has become a pervasive and destructive element in our society. I am committed fully to dedicating the resources necessary to combat this burgeoning problem." Mr. Ashcroft himself spoke to the gathering on June 6, 2002, asserting that the adult industry has ties to organized crime and invoking the right of the nation to "maintain a decent society." A full report of these and other related matters, including links to source documents, is running currently in AVN Online's online edition under the name Just Speaking Freely in Montreal: The Words of the Prophets. We believe this article to be mandatory reading for everybody who makes a living in adult erotic materials in online, video, and print media. Current clients have been provided our 24-hour pager numbers in the event of any legal emergency. UPDATE: "The Words of the Profits" appears in the October, 2002 print edition of AVN ONLINE.
http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200207/new...rger_july.shtml (http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200207/newsarchive/obenberger_july.shtml)
I was embellishing a little, but a lot of people are worried. People without the money to defend themselves at least. But hey the lawyers love stuff like this!
C.
Originally posted by Cal+Nov 13 2002, 05:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Nov 13 2002, 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--wig@Nov 13 2002, 02:36 PM
Paranoia self destroyer. :rokk:
I heard the Muleskinner lobby was big in this homeland security department. I bet you're trying to still all those HONEST *cough* union jobs from our hardworking Americans!
The liberals will eat you alive.
:grrr:
C.[/b][/quote]
What?
sarettah
11-13-2002, 06:48 PM
Back when the Homeland Security issue came up in 9/2001... I maintained and I still do, that this is more properly handled by already existing organizations.
The Airport security should have been handled by Coast Guard... Dept of Transportation controls the Airports and they control the Coast Guard.... Perfect combination... The borders should be handled by Customs and INS...
To do it effectively would require beefing up the Coast Guard, INS and Customs... But, the organizations already exist, they actually do know how to do the job... We would need to give them enough money to do the job...
But nopers, instead let's create another department, lets add to the bureaucracy and red tape. Lets make more cabinet positions and endlessly debate what we should do about "Homeland Security"...
When I was in the Navy (74-82) I was stationed with many Marines and Coasties.... We all knew what our roles were supposed to be...
Navy... get the marines over to wherever we need to be... Give them the cover with artillery from miles out, give them the air support....
Marines... Go kick some ass....
Coasties... Protect the coast and the Country...a domestic force...
Was a joke wig, I hate the union ties to the liberals just as I hate facets of the right.
Maybe you haven't followed the Sec. Dept. debate but Bush isn't allowing the unions to protest hiring decisions by the gov't, he has final veto power over all employees. The liberals are pissed, their main lobby is probably fitting them for cement shoes as we speak.
C.
PornoDoggy
11-13-2002, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by sarettah@Nov 13 2002, 06:56 PM
Back when the Homeland Security issue came up in 9/2001... I maintained and I still do, that this is more properly handled by already existing organizations.
The Airport security should have been handled by Coast Guard... Dept of Transportation controls the Airports and they control the Coast Guard.... Perfect combination... The borders should be handled by Customs and INS...
To do it effectively would require beefing up the Coast Guard, INS and Customs... But, the organizations already exist, they actually do know how to do the job... We would need to give them enough money to do the job...
But nopers, instead let's create another department, lets add to the bureaucracy and red tape. Lets make more cabinet positions and endlessly debate what we should do about "Homeland Security"...
When I was in the Navy (74-82) I was stationed with many Marines and Coasties.... We all knew what our roles were supposed to be...
Navy... get the marines over to wherever we need to be... Give them the cover with artillery from miles out, give them the air support....
Marines... Go kick some ass....
Coasties... Protect the coast and the Country...a domestic force...
It took the Defense Department about ten years - some say more - to begin functioning as a unit, and that was basically the merging of two cabinet departments. The degree of infighting between the components within the DOD still hampers mission readiness and needlessly inflates budgets.
This is going to be a merger of a popouri of parts of various departments thrown together. I think it will take longer to get it up to speed, and it will do so no matter how the union question is decided. I personally think it will make intellegence analysis and anti-terrorism law enforcement efforts more difficult, at least in short run, while they figure out the "thick book of rules" required to run ANY Federal Department.
What ... a common sense approach like let the Coast Guard take over airport security? Way too simple, when we can spent a couple billion shuffling people around, create some new departments with even more redundancy than we had before, and a whole new playground for GS-19's to fight turf wars in.
T-Rav
11-13-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 13 2002, 05:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 13 2002, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--T-Rav@Nov 13 2002, 05:26 PM
Yes, the terrorist threat is gone.
Why don't you tell that to the relatives of 250 australians perished in Bali?
if you sell it to them,
I'll buy it too...[/b][/quote]
Serge, It was an errant statement to say that the "terrorist threat is gone." I was wrong. I am truly sorry for those people and others who have been killed by terrorists. The terrorist threat will always be here. I doubt Homeland Security would have saved their lives, but who knows?
I won't try to sell it to you or anyone. That tends to be a waste of time.
And once again I have proven to myself that I should stay out of political/social discussions.
However, I will ALWAYS try to sell hosting to those in need. Hit me up if you're interested. :)
Last edited by T-Rav at Nov 13 2002, 08:30 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/14SAFI.html
Uh oh!
C.
Winetalk.com
11-14-2002, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Cal@Nov 14 2002, 12:36 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/14SAFI.html
Uh oh!
C.
ahhh..OPINIONS...
in my opinion the world will come to the end in 2012 and all liberals go to heaven undernith the earth...
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