The Saga Continues...

[Cal]

I'm sure this has been over and over, but the Bishops are meeting in D.C. today. Apparently the Vatican has watered down their zero tolerance policy, so now they're meeting to discuss it.

One of the bishops today dismissed the conerns of the laypeople and asserted that they were using this controversy to push their 'agenda' for doing away with celibacy.

Every time I hear someone say 'molesting children should be grounds for immediate removal from the priesthood' I think to myself how can you be a priest from JAIL, a.k.a. the place you should be if you are molesting children.

Some people do bring it up, but for the most part the discussion revolves around whether they should remain priests. I'm trying not to be cynical about this, but does it seem to anyone else like the Catholic church really IS (not to be punny) holier than thou, that they can get away with felonies?

I realize some priests were prosecuted, and this may be attributable to a rape-like mindset, where some people would rather just deal with it on their own and not file charges. But you'd think it would the responsibility of parents/community members to make sure that these individuals were jailed, since we're not dealing with a drunken prom date, we're dealing with people who have constant and unfettered access to children.

There are so many injustices in this world without having millions of Catholics afraid to take their kids to Sunday School. The fact that this debate has gone on for more than a YEAR and we still have no decisive action is embarassing to me as a concerned citizen.

C.

[Peaches]

Dumb question from a non-Catholic, but why AREN'T the police contacted? The parents control that - not the church. You bet I'd be dialing 911 if I found out a priest touched MY kid, so what's the deal? Are the parents that brainwashed where they think the priests can do no wrong? Were they happy being quiet with $$$ from the church? Were they afraid of the publicity their child would get?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just don't understand why the police weren't and aren't involved. :angry:

[MattK]

How many people do adult web sites and also go to church a lot? That seems like a wierd combination to me.

:devil:

[-= JR =-]

Originally posted by Peaches@Nov 12 2002, 03:03 PM
Dumb question from a non-Catholic, but why AREN'T the police contacted? The parents control that - not the church. You bet I'd be dialing 911 if I found out a priest touched MY kid, so what's the deal? Are the parents that brainwashed where they think the priests can do no wrong? Were they happy being quiet with $$$ from the church? Were they afraid of the publicity their child would get?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just don't understand why the police weren't and aren't involved. :angry:
the original "policy" was that all rapes of children by priests were covered up.

the Vatican last year proposed imposing a modest "1 child rape limit" on all priests before handling the matter outside of the church.

American Priests finally decided that there may not be any positive benefit
to raping children at all and that they should consider abondoning the
practice all together.

the bigger problem i think, is all the people coming out of the woodwork in recent years. they have won a shitload of settlements against the catholic church and the trend continues.

[Peaches]

the original "policy" was that all rapes of children by priests were covered up.

I guess my question is why the hell the parents ALLOWED it to be covered up ? Were they blinded by faith? money? ignorance? I know why the CHURCH covered it up, but as a parent, I honestly cannot comprehend why the parents didn't get the police involved :o

[Rox]

Originally posted by Peaches@Nov 12 2002, 01:55 PM
I guess my question is why the hell the parents ALLOWED it to be covered up ? Were they blinded by faith? money? ignorance? I know why the CHURCH covered it up, but as a parent, I honestly cannot comprehend why the parents didn't get the police involved :o
Peaches, most of the parents didn't know it was happening while it was going on. Usually the molested kids don't come forward until long after they've become adults. Another problem is that most Catholics would tend to "take care of things" within the church hierarchy instead of going outside to law enforcement. To a Catholic, there is no one closer to God than a priest -- that's one hell of an authority figure to go complaining about.

One of the things the bishops put forth that I found horrifying and unbelievable is that they'd like there to be a statute of limitations on how long a victim has to come forward -- age 28. As if somehow making it past that magical age without feeling the need to rail against being victimized is supposed to make it all better.

And yes, apparently the Church does believe they're above the law, and many, many people throughout the ages and up til today allow them to continue on as though they are. The bishops don't even want to answer to the Catholic laity -- their own fucking people, the people they're supposed to be "shepherds" over -- they want to handle any and all accusations strictly within the Church hierarchy, with all penalties coming from the Vatican, not a secular court of law.

Scary, ain't it?

[Peaches]

Scary, ain't it?

Yes, and so sad for the kids :steemed:

[Rox]

Originally posted by Peaches@Nov 12 2002, 03:08 PM
Scary, ain't it?

Yes, and so sad for the kids :steemed:
Very, very sad... Although IMO, the priestly molestation is only a little bit more atrocious than the mind-fucking a child endures growing up Catholic. The fact that anyone (adults, especially!) even entertains the notion that the molestation of a child by a member of clergy is something that shouldn't be immediately reported as a CRIME, to a LAW ENFORCEMENT agency (not to the Cardinal, or the Bishop or even the fucking Pope) is pretty clearly testament to what good sheep people must be in order to be considered "faithful." But hey, that's what being a good Catholic's all about: toeing the line.

And some people wonder why I detest any form of organized religion! :grrr:

[Torone]

The question has already been asked; but...

Why the hell is the church involved before the police?

[Cal]

I think it's seriously a combo of rape victim syndrome (meaning they don't want to embarass themselves and come out about it) possibly partial disbelief if they do tell the family, though not these days obviously. I'm originally from MA, so we always used to joke about it even as kids, priests molesting people. As a community I think there is a LOT of pressure from other families and parents and parishoners not to 'come out' with allegations, since it would break up the church and cause lots of problems.

Especially in organized religion where in smaller areas everyone knows everyone, I don't think I can even imagine the level of pressure there must be when you have something negative to say that adversely affects your own circle, and makes them look bad in the public eye.

C.

[ulfie]

I went to a catholic high school and the headmaster (Fr. Hoehl) was universally loved. Great guy but he had a dark side. On our campus the head master had his own house. It was very common for kids to spend the weekend at Fr. Hoell's house. It was a big deal or so most of us thought back then because he thought you were one of the "cool" kids. Actually pissed me off that I never got invited. Well, it turns out it was a good thing because for 25 years he was molesting kids and not a single one ever came forward. None told their parents, the police, friends, etc. A few years ago Fr. Hoehl mysteriously got transferred to a seminary. Parents, students, etc. were outraged by no reason was given by the catholic church. Turns out a guy that graduated in the early 80's came forward and finally spilled the beans. To date no charges have been filed against the priest even though tons of former students have come forward. From what I understand, no charges have been filed because the crimes that they know of happened too long ago. One of the students has filed a lawsuit against the priest and the church but it's still in court.

2 of the guys in the article were in my class and 1 was a really close freind and I never knew any of this was going on. You have to understand how loved Fr. Hoehl was. If someone had told me that story back then I would have never believed it. My mother, to this day, still thinks the kids are lying about it. I'm pretty sure that's why they never came forward at the time. He had dirt on all of them, he bought them alcohol, let them drink, smoke pot, etc. and when they got into trouble he got them out of it without their parents knowing about it.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/...106/detail.html (http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/1421106/detail.html)

[Peaches]

Ulfie, stories like that just break my heart :(

Castration for all pedofiles. Period. They say they "can't control themselves"? Then let the knife help out. :steemed:

[Cal]

The new resolution is up for passage today I just heard some more about it. Statute of limitations is 28 but they can 'bend' this if necessary. Also they are going to have PRIVATE investigations by the bishops when complaints are filed.

And they say that they will provide APPROPRIATE information to 'civil' authorities. I found it amusing that the church called the police civil authorities, since in our court system a civil case is much different from criminal, as we know. They're not 'law' enforcement they're 'civil' authorities, like they're out there building homeless shelters or having town hall meetings.

The Church needs to wake up, this is the 21st century. People will not stand for these double standards.

C.

[JFK]

Originally posted by ulfie@Nov 13 2002, 11:22 AM
I went to a catholic high school and the headmaster (Fr. Hoehl) was universally loved. Great guy but he had a dark side. On our campus the head master had his own house. It was very common for kids to spend the weekend at Fr. Hoell's house. It was a big deal or so most of us thought back then because he thought you were one of the "cool" kids. Actually pissed me off that I never got invited. Well, it turns out it was a good thing because for 25 years he was molesting kids and not a single one ever came forward. None told their parents, the police, friends, etc. A few years ago Fr. Hoehl mysteriously got transferred to a seminary. Parents, students, etc. were outraged by no reason was given by the catholic church. Turns out a guy that graduated in the early 80's came forward and finally spilled the beans. To date no charges have been filed against the priest even though tons of former students have come forward. From what I understand, no charges have been filed because the crimes that they know of happened too long ago. One of the students has filed a lawsuit against the priest and the church but it's still in court.

2 of the guys in the article were in my class and 1 was a really close freind and I never knew any of this was going on. You have to understand how loved Fr. Hoehl was. If someone had told me that story back then I would have never believed it. My mother, to this day, still thinks the kids are lying about it. I'm pretty sure that's why they never came forward at the time. He had dirt on all of them, he bought them alcohol, let them drink, smoke pot, etc. and when they got into trouble he got them out of it without their parents knowing about it.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/...106/detail.html (http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/1421106/detail.html)
It is very sad , but like you say the kids were probably afraid to come forward at the time . Who would have believed them? Most of them have, or will have phsycological problems for the rest of their lives! I say hang them by the nuts, till they die! and yes I did attend Catcholic Schools, and my kids still do (all girls) How ever we are not church goers !

[Cal]

The biggest national victim's rights group related specifically to priests/churches said that 50-60% of their members are women. You might want to keep a close eye on your daughters. :(

C.